|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
![]() |
#321 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,861
|
Booker lost my support when in an interview he was excellent at describing the problems but he couldn't seem to answer a single question about how he would address them.
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#322 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 27,964
|
|
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#323 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,861
|
Top 10 Joe Biden Gaffes is a good place to start.
Above board or not, Hunter has had a number of 'fortunate son' jobs. The hair kissing is creepy, it doesn't matter whether it was benign or not. It's not just the words and gaffes, his age is glaring: "My generation in '68.." CBS News Video with examples. It's 11 minutes, just listen to the first 5 if you don't have time for the whole 11.
Quote:
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#324 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 4,859
|
According to the polls, which you say you don't trust much, Sanders is first place in Iowa, a rather conservative state from my limited experience there. I think there is a message there.
What run of the mill crazy lib do you think conservatives will be convinced by? For the most part conservative voters already distrust most of the Democratic Party. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#325 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 27,964
|
|
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#326 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 4,859
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#327 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 27,964
|
|
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#328 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 16,869
|
Its a primary.... which means a few things:
- The list of candidates is very fragmented, and thus its easy for any candidate to be near the top of the polls (even more so if they have some name recognition), even if they don't exactly have wide support. - Support can be very volatile. While Sanders may lead in one poll, another recent poll shows Biden in front. See: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...-monmouth-poll - Support in a primary does not necessarily translate to support in a national election.
Quote:
But election victories can hing on very small margins. (If Clinton had just a few thousand more votes in 3 states they she would be president). No democrat will convince the majority of Republicans to vote for them, but if they can influence a few thousand voters it may be a good thing. |
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#329 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 5,211
|
Failing that, they can convince a few thousand Republicans, and right-leaning voters, to tacitly accept a Democratic President by casting a third-party vote or not voting for POTUS at all.
There are a fair number of conservative voters who despise Trump. If we can offer up someone who doesn't ring the "socialist" bell so loud, many of them may just stay on the sidelines of the general election. |
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#330 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 4,859
|
In New Hampshire, Sanders has captured quite a decent bit of the conservative and moderate vote.
I imagine this can be replicated elsewhere. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#331 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,331
|
Ya, I hate to tell you, but "socialism" wasn't the problem there.
Quote:
Quote:
These are problems of branding and language. And, guess what, the same problems are going to follow what ever vanilla, inoffensive, corporate friendly Democrat gets the nod. The problems isn't that the Democrats are socialists. The problem is they are gutless. |
__________________
SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#332 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 27,964
|
|
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#333 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 16,869
|
Easy to say, maybe not so easy to do.
You're talking about getting through to millions of people who have extremely long-lasting beliefs. Not sure that even the most slick media campaign will change that overnight.
Quote:
The question is, what do you do when the republicans scream "Socialist"... Do you say "yes I am"? Turn around and scream "fascist" back at them? Try to prevent a reasoned argument to the electorate (that is likely to fall on deaf ears)?
Quote:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...ong-democrats/
Quote:
The problem is, when you ask this question in isolation, you probably get a different answer than if they asked "do you approve of free college, if it means a tax increase". https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/46...g-student-debt
Quote:
In one poll, 84% want it legalized, but only half of those want it legal for any and all uses, while the other half want it legalized but only for medical purposes. If the proposal is "totally remove all marijuana restrictions" you are definitely on the side of the minority. https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-amer...hould-be-legal |
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#334 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#335 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,958
|
Sadly unless like... at least of the 2 of the 4 of the following wind up being true come November:
A) Ginsburg holds out until then B) They make gains in the Senate C) They hold the House D) There's a shift in broad public consciousness And we wind up with a Democratic President, one that can identify the problem but do nothing about it might as well be the one we vote for because that's all they are going to be able to do. |
__________________
Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate." |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#336 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 49,979
|
They will attack every Dem as a socialist;problem is it will be easier to make it stick on some candiates then others.
And I am still convicned a Sanders nomination will pretty much seal a Trump reelection. Too many people here seem to live in a bubble where most people they talk politics with are progressives, and they really don't get most voters are not. |
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#337 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 49,979
|
|
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#338 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,958
|
|
__________________
Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate." |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#339 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,861
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#340 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,861
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#341 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 4,859
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#342 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#343 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#344 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 49,979
|
And I don't get the Warren/Sanders feud. If you look at the policies, there is not that much difference between them except Warren seems to think it will take longer to implement them then Sander does;Sanders want to do it all is a couple of years, Warren thinks it will take longer, and I side with Warren here. When you are making the kind of huge changes that are being talked about, going slow is not a bad idea.
But then, I think Sanders has become something of a personality cult with his supporters. For the record I could see Warren winning in November because she does not come off quite as radical as Sanders does. Sanders just, I repeat, cannot or will not shake the impage of the 60's College radical. And I think however much that might appear to his base.it's a detriment to everybody else. |
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#345 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48,010
|
|
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#346 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 4,859
|
Sanders has refrained from attacking or even harshly criticizing his opponents until recently.
I don't know if is strategic or if it's because his most zealous supporters finally got into his head. I think the close numbers in Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada may be spurring his campaign to go on the attack. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#347 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,861
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#348 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,598
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#349 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 4,859
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#350 |
Philosophile
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 29,006
|
|
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893) |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#351 |
Philosophile
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 29,006
|
But this shows the limit to painting candidates as socialist, no? After all, the slime machine worked overtime to portray Obama as an atheist, socialist, Muslim Kenyan trying to foist unbelievably ruinous healthcare plans on the US and the voters (with exceptions such as your brother) said “yes, please! Enslave is all your Islamic Atheist Commie Highness!”
|
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893) |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#352 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 18,164
|
|
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#353 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 4,859
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#354 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,861
|
Maybe because you think my single anecdote is all the evidence I have?
![]() Same as the Clinton/Sanders primary, certain people who support Sanders get defensive when you bring up the issue that the US voters are not ready yet to support socialism and it's very easy to paint some candidates with that scary label. I posted other links. Anyone found some articles on why this is NOT an issue? |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#355 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 27,964
|
|
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#356 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,861
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#357 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#358 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 18,164
|
Warren met with Sanders in 2018 and told friends afterward that Sanders told her he didn't think a woman could win.
Quote:
Quote:
|
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#359 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,598
|
That's the thing, though---It's not even evidence. You do know that Obama was elected, don't you? Twice, in fact. So you found someone who said he wouldn't vote for Obama. Big Deal. I can find people who say they would never vote for Trump; he won, too. In fact, given any candidate I'm confident you can find people who would never vote for that candidate. It's not unusual and shouldn't convince you that a given candidate would be hard pressed to win an election. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#360 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 4,859
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
|
|