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#241 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
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#242 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 48,543
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#243 |
Philosophile
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 28,940
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"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893) |
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#244 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 4,810
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The bigger problem with this hit is that we(Trump) have tipped our hand and revealed just how well our intelligence has penetrated Iran. The guy had to be travelling under strict rules of OPSEC and we were able to nail him right at the airport. Then came the follow-on missions to arrest militia leaders later that night, and then the airstrikes today taking out HVT's.
Part of comes from Iraqi Sunis who have been staging protests in Baghdad over the past months over Iranian influence in their country but the fact that we have their leadership dialed in is impressive. But now the Iranians will figure they've been compromised and we'll have to start all over. Don't get me wrong, this guy needed killing, but the timing and execution could have been better. Until I see more details I can't suggest how far on the stupid meter this one gets pegged. |
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Disingenuous Piranha |
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#245 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
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#246 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,558
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#247 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 3,131
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#248 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,825
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Taking a step back I do wonder how much of an escalation this would be.
I mean since formal diplomatic relations ended in 1980 Iran-American relations have survived the Iraq-Iran War, the 1983 Hezbollah bombings, the Iran-Contra Affair, the attack on the USS Samuel B. Roberts, Operation Praying Mantis, Operation Nimble Archer, the shootdown of Iran Air Flight 655, the Gulf War, the "Axis of Evil Speech," multiple rounds of sanctions, near endless diplomatic bickering, and endless skirmishes, saber rattling, and other assorted dick waving. Speaking neutrally, regardless of how anyone feels about either participant, any of the specific incidents historically or the current one, it seems like if either America or Iran needed an excuse to throw down the gloves it would have happened by now. |
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Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate." |
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#249 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 48,543
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#250 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 48,543
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#251 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 16,431
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I see a difference here Joe.
At those other times, you had Presidents who were surrounded with staff and foreign service officials with years of experience, who knew their field and how to do their jobs, and knew (for the most part at least) to give POTUS good advice on Iran. You had heads of departments who had received near unanimous, or at least large majority, confirmation by the Senate. But now, you have an unqualified President who has fired anyone and everyone who tells him things he doesn't want to hear; who has surrounded himself with unqualified, incompetent "yes-men", with unconsented, acting heads of important departments. The only thing these idiots are capable of advising their President on is now to publicly spin it in the media when he *****-up again. |
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I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms. - Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project) ![]() |
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#252 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,825
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*Shrugs* "But Trump is different" is valid.
The problem is it's so universal it's meaningless. Yes the situation might spiral out of control more/bad/worst/quicker because Trump is... let me be diplomatic here and call him a "Hard to predict variable." But by the same token he loses interest in things fast and his standard tactic of "Never do one evil thing for long" has worked so far. Trumps smar... errr at least wily enough to know that war is a long term thing he can't Gish Gallop his way through. Again I don't know, throwing dice in the dark as it where. |
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Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate." |
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#253 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,790
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Trump lost and he knows it.
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#254 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,790
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Trump lost and he knows it.
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#255 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 4,845
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#256 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
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#257 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,790
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__________________
Trump lost and he knows it.
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#258 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 4,845
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I believe it's easy for people to change Trump's mind. His flip-flopping and playing both sides is legendary.
It's important that it's the right people around him though. |
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#259 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,790
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__________________
Trump lost and he knows it.
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#260 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 48,543
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#261 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,558
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General McChrystal called out Mike Pence a decade ago?
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#262 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
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#263 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#264 |
Featherless biped
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#265 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#266 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 4,845
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Until we know the reasons it was carried out, probably not.
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#267 |
Philosophile
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 28,940
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__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893) |
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#268 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 24,559
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Iran vows "Harsh Revenge". The Iranian Ambassador to the U.N. said that. Not even using diplomatic words. This is so much more insane than promising a "harsh response." Once you get fanatic religion behind it it's going to be impossible to put down.
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Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting. |
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#269 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 47,897
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__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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#270 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 47,897
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__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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#271 |
Philosophile
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 28,940
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There may be grains of truth that are misleading. The tweet seems to imply that Iran, and specifically Soleimani, was part of the 9/11 plot, whereas this is the Wikipedia summary of what the Commission Report found:
Quote:
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__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893) |
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#272 |
Skepticifimisticalationist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 26,339
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That seems to be what the administration wants to imply by using the phrase "target of opportunity".
It rather strains credibility to assume that they'd had other prior opportunities but decided that a rocket strike at an operating civilian airport with guaranteed civilian collateral casualties was the best one of them. |
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"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 |
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#273 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 24,559
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I wonder if it will come out eventually that Trump said at the meeting "We gotta do something to distract from the unredacted emails that are dominating the news cycle right now. Generals, whaddya got???"
That would be one reason why no Democrats were invited to the meeting and it wasn't passed through Congress. |
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Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting. |
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#274 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 8,781
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__________________
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -- Mahatma Gandhi Wollen owns the stage |
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#275 | |||
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
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#276 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 8,781
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The US has been tracking Suleimani's position for years, through multiple administrations. I'm not aware of any civilian causalities involved in the convoy strike, and it's difficult to imagine civilians would have been permitted anywhere near these top commanders. The reason for the attack's timing was not the result of a lack of opportunity, but rather several recent Iranian coordinated attacks on US personnel and other assets.
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"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -- Mahatma Gandhi Wollen owns the stage |
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#277 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 47,897
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__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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#278 |
Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 169
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#279 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 16,431
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__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms. - Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project) ![]() |
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#280 |
Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 169
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This attack was not in the interest of the U.S. Signs say it was at the behest of Israel.
"FYI on the coming Iran War (25 Mar. 2019, The White House)" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yyANWty4NA |
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