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Tags donald trump , tariffs , Trump controversies

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Old 25th June 2018, 09:54 AM   #161
Oystein
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US consumers profit from foreign imports of wares with superior price/quality ratio. Tariffs degrade such ratios. America loses.
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Old 25th June 2018, 06:07 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
Harley to shift some bike production outside the US to avoid EU tariffs.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44604280
More jobs while making Trump look bad -- win-win for the EU.
Better European sales while paying less tax -- win-win for Harley.
Jobs and taxes lost -- lose-lose for the USA.

So much winning!
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Old 25th June 2018, 09:16 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The governments, in the short term, will be glad to have all the new tariff revenue they collect. In the medium and long term their economies will suffer. As usual there will be bickering about 'who started it'. Canada doesn't like the USA tariffs on metals, but it does like its own 200% + tariff on USA milk that was imposed earlier.


You make it sound like the tariffs on dairy are some new thing. They're not, they've been around for decades. Most notably, they were around when we were negotiating NAFTA.

Do you imagine that the US just agreed to let us keep these tariffs, in return for nothing at all? Somewhere in NAFTA, there's a clause that is more favourable to the US than it would have been if we'd given up our tariffs on dairy. But of course, Trump focuses only on what Canada got, without reference to what the US got. Which is, of course, how he views every deal - what he gets is fair, what you get is unfair, and he'll do everything he can, up to and including declaring bankruptcy, to screw you out of getting your share.
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Old 26th June 2018, 11:30 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
You make it sound like the tariffs on dairy are some new thing. They're not, they've been around for decades. Most notably, they were around when we were negotiating NAFTA.

Do you imagine that the US just agreed to let us keep these tariffs, in return for nothing at all? Somewhere in NAFTA, there's a clause that is more favourable to the US than it would have been if we'd given up our tariffs on dairy. But of course, Trump focuses only on what Canada got, without reference to what the US got. Which is, of course, how he views every deal - what he gets is fair, what you get is unfair, and he'll do everything he can, up to and including declaring bankruptcy, to screw you out of getting your share.
Specifically, the USA wanted to reserve the right to continue to subsidize American dairy (estimates are that the mean average subsidy is about 140%?) and in exchange allowed Canada to protect our farmers as we saw fit. Both countries value our food supply management, we just chose different strategies.

I'm all for removing Canadian tariffs in exchange for ending American dairy farmers' subsidies, but this would make both countries' farmers vulnerable to international competition, not sure if either country really wants that.
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Old 26th June 2018, 12:19 PM   #165
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U.S. tariffs on Chineese steel creates incentives to dump it somewhere else. Thus Canada is now preparing tariffs on Chineese steel.
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Old 27th June 2018, 11:23 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
As usual there will be bickering about 'who started it'. Canada doesn't like the USA tariffs on metals, but it does like its own 200% + tariff on USA milk that was imposed earlier.
This wasn’t “imposed” they were negotiated under NAFTA. The US received other concessions in return.

It’s part of a system designed to deal with very different systems for stabilizing food production in the two countries. The US relies on massive direct subsidies for farmer that allow them to sell their products below cost and still survive. Canada uses a supply management system that gives quotas to producers. Part of that quota goes to US producers who can sell that product in Canada tariff free.

Production above and beyond this is subjected to a soft limit which is where the 200% tariff comes in. Below these limits Canadian producers face larger barriers selling dairy products to the US that US producers face selling their products into Canada. The result is that the US sells far more dairy products to Canada than Canada sells to the US. Take away all the tariffs, subsidies and trade barriers and what probably happens is that Western Canadian producers displace producers in both the US and Eastern Canada.
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Old 27th June 2018, 11:34 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post

I'm all for removing Canadian tariffs in exchange for ending American dairy farmers' subsidies, but this would make both countries' farmers vulnerable to international competition, not sure if either country really wants that.
They could still place limits on imports from other nations. As I said above the big winner if all tariffs and subsidies were eliminated would be producers in Western Canada where farm operations are much larger and optimised for cost rather than intensity. A 300-acre farm in Wisconsin or Quebec just isn’t going to produce feed as efficiently as an 8 000-acre farm in Saskatchewan and those efficiencies make their way though the whole system.

Insisting on maintaining supply management as part of NAFTA was a very deliberate political decision to side with Quebec farmers of Western Canadian farmers.
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Old 27th June 2018, 03:29 PM   #168
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I'll have to find it again, but i recently saw that US dairy farmers get 72c in the dollar subsidies- that isnt a 'level playing field' but the trumpff doesnt like to mention that whenever he is railing against 'unfair Canadian tariffs' does he...
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Old 27th June 2018, 07:35 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Dabop View Post
I'll have to find it again, but i recently saw that US dairy farmers get 72c in the dollar subsidies- that isnt a 'level playing field'
You say that like it's one of the things we are supposed to have, but nobody actually wants a level playing field.

Politicians want votes, farmers want to maintain their lifestyle, and businesses want to beat the competition by any means fair or foul. This is a symbiotic relationship that perpetuates itself worldwide, because (almost) nobody is brave enough to break it.

Subsidies distort the market (with all the harm that implies) but you won't hear capitalists complaining about it when they themselves are the beneficiaries. They may say that they are all for free markets and small government, but in reality it's all about making money - and fairness doesn't come into it.

When Trump says 'unfair', what he really means is 'having to play fair'. We never had to in the past, so it's 'unfair' to make us do it now!
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Old 27th June 2018, 11:21 PM   #170
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Some of us actually do want a level playing field for everyone.
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Old 28th June 2018, 12:22 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Some of us actually do want a level playing field for everyone.
what does that even mean?
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Old 29th June 2018, 11:44 PM   #172
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GM making noises about moving production out of the USA as a direct result of Trump's tariffs.
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Old 30th June 2018, 07:20 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
GM making noises about moving production out of the USA as a direct result of Trump's tariffs.
Well that would play nicely for President Trump because Obama's support helped to save GM so naturally President Trump should be the one to undo it. Like Harley Davidson no doubt, if GM makes products outside the US then they deserve to go out of business.
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Old 1st July 2018, 01:56 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Well that would play nicely for President Trump because Obama's support helped to save GM so naturally President Trump should be the one to undo it.
Obama was pushing the TPP which was about removing tariffs. Everyone agrees that was a bad idea, so Trump is just doing what we want!
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Old 6th July 2018, 12:03 AM   #175
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President Trump's tariffs against China have now come into force:

Quote:
US tariffs on $34bn (£25.7bn) of Chinese goods have come into effect, signalling the start of a trade war between the world's two largest economies.

The 25% levy came into effect at midnight Washington time.

China has retaliated by imposing a similar 25% tariff on 545 US products, also worth a total of $34bn.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44707253

I guess we'll see whether President Trump is right about how easy it is for the US to win trade wars.
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Old 6th July 2018, 06:21 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
President Trump's tariffs against China have now come into force:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44707253

I guess we'll see whether President Trump is right about how easy it is for the US to win trade wars.
It used to be easy to win them against China, as the UK found in the nineteenth century when China tried to ban imports of opium. But is it still as easy? We may find out soon enough.
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Old 6th July 2018, 08:17 AM   #177
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President Trump's reaction is to double down:

Quote:
Donald Trump has threatened to impose tariffs worth hundreds of billions of dollars on Chinese imports to the US as a trade war between the world's two largest economies began on Friday.

US tariffs on $34bn (£25.7bn) of Chinese goods have come into effect.

China retaliated by imposing a similar 25% tariff on 545 US products, also worth a total of $34bn.

The US President said America may target Chinese goods worth $500bn - the total value of Chinese imports in 2017.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44744033

I'm sure that US consumers will be thrilled at these new higher prices for Chinese-manufactured goods.
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Old 6th July 2018, 08:19 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
President Trump's reaction is to double down:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44744033

I'm sure that US consumers will be thrilled at these new higher prices for Chinese-manufactured goods.
Goods like the American Flag and MAGA hats.
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Old 6th July 2018, 10:02 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Goods like the American Flag and MAGA hats.
I am ashamed that my country also gets its national symbols imported from China so if Trump's tariffs stop that in the US then I am all for it.
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Old 7th July 2018, 04:24 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I am ashamed that my country also gets its national symbols imported from China
Why?
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Old 9th July 2018, 07:27 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
President Trump's reaction is to double down:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44744033

I'm sure that US consumers will be thrilled at these new higher prices for Chinese-manufactured goods.
And US manufactured goods using Chinese materials.

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I am ashamed that my country also gets its national symbols imported from China so if Trump's tariffs stop that in the US then I am all for it.
Wo where do you expect them to be made?
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Old 9th July 2018, 11:31 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Why?
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Wo where do you expect them to be made?
If national pride takes a backseat to money then we shouldn't have national pride.
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Old 9th July 2018, 08:31 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
If national pride takes a backseat to money then we shouldn't have national pride.
I agree. National pride is not a virtue. Your country has done things you shouldn't be proud of, and the things that might be weren't your doing. Be proud of what you have achieved, wherever you live.

And there's nothing wrong with making money. I operated a business that bought goods made in China and Taiwan. We worked together with our suppliers to make money for all of us, and provided our customers with good quality products at affordable prices. We also bought stuff from European, Australian and local suppliers - anyone who had something worth selling. The fact that most were foreigners doesn't bother me a bit, in fact I feel proud to have helped them get their products to a wider market - for the benefit of everyone.
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Old 11th July 2018, 12:15 AM   #184
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More reporting on the next set of tariffs being imposed by President Trump:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44789827

Quote:
Beijing described Washington's latest threat as "totally unacceptable," saying it would harm the world.

"The behaviour of the US is hurting China, hurting the world and hurting itself," a spokesperson for China's commerce ministry said in a statement.

The spokesperson also said the government would have to take the "necessary counter-measures".
It's causing some unease in the US:

Quote:
Many companies in the US are opposed to the administration's use of tariffs against China, saying they risk hurting business and the economy without being likely to change behaviour.
and...

Quote:
It's a difficult situation for a number of our companies. They're getting increasingly worried about where this is all going," Ed Brzytwa, director of international trade for the American Chemistry Council, which represents chemical companies, told the BBC on Tuesday before the latest measures were announced.

"They can't figure out what the endgame is."
I guess that's because no-one in the Trump Administration knows either. IMO they assumed, against all good advice, that the opening salvo would result in a humiliating climb down by the Chinese. When it didn't they have doubled down. This is the standard operating method for Donald Trump.
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Old 11th July 2018, 04:23 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
President Trump's reaction is to double down:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44744033

I'm sure that US consumers will be thrilled at these new higher prices for Chinese-manufactured goods.
Like Trump Signature Collection clothes?
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Old 12th July 2018, 12:44 PM   #186
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I got the notice from my vendors that several items I carry are being affected by the tariffs and are going up in price.

hooray....winning....
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Old 12th July 2018, 02:55 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I guess that's because no-one in the Trump Administration knows either. IMO they assumed, against all good advice, that the opening salvo would result in a humiliating climb down by the Chinese. When it didn't they have doubled down. This is the standard operating method for Donald Trump.
Anybody who's observed Trump's SOP can anticipate the endgame: bankruptcy. His management incompetence gets schluffed off on the labourers and the B share class investors who don't get the special dividends from the money laundering part of the operation.

He still gets a paycheque, and the other beneficiaries are family and some friends who are in on it, and then finally, a few lawyers who were hired by the victims to try to get the last pennies on the dollar.

I'm trying to identify who plays what role in this.
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Old 12th July 2018, 03:31 PM   #188
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IMHO it's truly incredible that so many in the GOP, which is supposed to be pro business,are supporting a policy which is about as damaging to business as you can get.
un freaking believable.
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Old 13th July 2018, 06:35 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
IMHO it's truly incredible that so many in the GOP, which is supposed to be pro business,are supporting a policy which is about as damaging to business as you can get.
un freaking believable.
Not that surprising. Once you've sold your soul, everything else is just ledger entries.
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Old 13th July 2018, 07:01 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
IMHO it's truly incredible that so many in the GOP, which is supposed to be pro business,are supporting a policy which is about as damaging to business as you can get.
un freaking believable.
Republican policy devolved into dogma as far back as the 90’s. Since then it’s commitment to business and a strong economy has largely been lip service that focused on short easily and frequently repeated tag lines.

Eg:
Instead of debating what the right level of regulation should be, they repeat “deregulation!!!”. Under-regulation can be as harmful to business and economic efficiency as over-regulation so the dogma of just reduce the amount of regulation was never really pro-business, at best it helped some while hurting others.

Instead of debating what the right amount of taxation should be. Magic beans aside, Defence spending + mandatory spending like Medicare/Medicaid make up close to 90% of the US budget. Taxation levels are already too low to fund Republican spending priorities, yet the dogma of “cut taxes” is all they know, and the result is government debt.

I’m not in the least surprised that a simple, easily repeated tag line like “America first, rawr!!!” can set aside much more complex explanations of why trade is good for business and good for the economy with the Republican base. If anything I’m surprised it hasn’t happened sooner.
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