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Tags Australia elections , Australia politics , Julie Bishop , Malcolm Turnbull , Peter Dutton , Scott Morrison

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Old 16th January 2020, 02:57 PM   #2041
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
I was only interested in the technical viability of long-distance power transmission.
A quick google search will give you some links. Let me give you some for you

Quote:
1. Belo Monte-Rio de Janeiro transmission line, Brazil – 2,543km
2. Rio Madeira transmission link, Brazil – 2,385km
https://www.power-technology.com/fea...lines-4167964/

https://www.greentechmedia.com/artic...c-transmission
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Old 16th January 2020, 04:31 PM   #2042
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
I was only interested in the technical viability of long-distance power transmission.
If you're interested only in the theory, sure. But technical viability has to be balanced against financial viability. Infrastructure shouldn't be something that only billionaires can fund.
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Old 16th January 2020, 05:11 PM   #2043
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
If you're interested only in the theory, sure. But technical viability has to be balanced against financial viability. Infrastructure shouldn't be something that only billionaires can fund.
Big ticket infrastructure is nations do. We are in a time of big decisions for the future of the nation.
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Old 16th January 2020, 06:00 PM   #2044
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Big ticket infrastructure is nations do. We are in a time of big decisions for the future of the nation.
And an utter lack of political courage to do so, sadly.
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Old 16th January 2020, 08:12 PM   #2045
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
You can blame the conservative politicians for their "money first" policies all you like but ultimately, it is the voters who are to blame.

Most of the seats that Labor lost at the last election were in Queensland - where giving the Aldani (coal) mine the go ahead means jobs for Queenslanders.
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Old 16th January 2020, 08:27 PM   #2046
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
You can blame the conservative politicians for their "money first" policies all you like but ultimately, it is the voters who are to blame.

Most of the seats that Labor lost at the last election were in Queensland - where giving the Aldani (coal) mine the go ahead which makes the locals think means jobs for Queenslanders.
ftfy.

Reality is there were few jobs going at all, and most of those will be for low-salary Adani employees from India (FIFO). There won't even be many jobs in the ship loading operations. That, like the mining, will be mostly automated.

They should have taken a look at what is happening in the iron ore industry in WA. That is so automated that even the massive ore trains between Tom Price and Karratha have no engineers. It is a big "train set" run by computers from Perth head office. And all the big dump trucks at the mining sites are also "remote controlled" by computers - no drivers. So to be clear, no local people are employed in this major operation.
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Old 16th January 2020, 08:38 PM   #2047
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
You can blame the conservative politicians for their "money first" policies all you like but ultimately, it is the voters who are to blame.
Can't disagree with you there.
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Old 16th January 2020, 11:13 PM   #2048
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
ftfy.

Reality is there were few jobs going at all, and most of those will be for low-salary Adani employees from India (FIFO). There won't even be many jobs in the ship loading operations. That, like the mining, will be mostly automated.

They should have taken a look at what is happening in the iron ore industry in WA. That is so automated that even the massive ore trains between Tom Price and Karratha have no engineers. It is a big "train set" run by computers from Perth head office. And all the big dump trucks at the mining sites are also "remote controlled" by computers - no drivers. So to be clear, no local people are employed in this major operation.
I wonder how Queenslanders will vote in the next election after they work out they have been conned? Would the Labor party be able to capitalise on this fact? Pity they did not say "stop new coal mines. There are no new jobs". If they had they would have been no worse off.
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Old 17th January 2020, 12:17 AM   #2049
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Could Richard Marles be Labor’s future?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Marles

He had no great charisma, but he is a centrist and has kept his nose clean. His background as a Slater and Gordon litigator may not help him in the outer suburban and Queensland seats he needs to win, but in my view he’s a far better option to Albo.

It seems like Plibersek will not be a contender.

Thoughts?
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Old 17th January 2020, 05:08 PM   #2050
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Could Richard Marles be Labor’s future?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Marles

He had no great charisma, but he is a centrist and has kept his nose clean. His background as a Slater and Gordon litigator may not help him in the outer suburban and Queensland seats he needs to win, but in my view he’s a far better option to Albo.

It seems like Plibersek will not be a contender.

Thoughts?
Senator The Honourable Penny Wong
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Old 17th January 2020, 09:06 PM   #2051
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
I wonder how Queenslanders will vote in the next election after they work out they have been conned? Would the Labor party be able to capitalise on this fact? Pity they did not say "stop new coal mines. There are no new jobs". If they had they would have been no worse off.
Just to back up my previous assertions:

Rio Tinto AutoHaul, WA

Rio Tinto autonomous trucks, WA

Adani coal mining plans to use autonomous trucks (article from 2015)

Number of actual new jobs Adani will create in Queensland: 1464 FTE's, including the construction phase for a new town and airport, i.e. for a short period only and not actual mining operations.

Play the graphic on the page.
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Old 17th January 2020, 09:15 PM   #2052
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Could Richard Marles be Labor’s future?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Marles

He had no great charisma, but he is a centrist and has kept his nose clean. His background as a Slater and Gordon litigator may not help him in the outer suburban and Queensland seats he needs to win, but in my view he’s a far better option to Albo.

It seems like Plibersek will not be a contender.

Thoughts?
I like Albo. I really do. He's a really nice guy, highly personable, a very capable as leader, and has not put many steps wrong politically. But I'm damned if he doesn't look and sound like some suburban alderman or RSL treasurer in an ill-fitting suit when he's in parliament or the public eye. Barely an ounce of actual political charisma. Not PM material at all. Like his predecessor, he's the consummate amenable apparatchik, but not the figurehead.

I think Penny Wong would be ideal as PM. Her deputy should be Tony Burke.
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Old 17th January 2020, 09:38 PM   #2053
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
Senator The Honourable Penny Wong
Which safe Labor seat would she parachute into?

The electorate is so cynical that may not win a lower house seat at all.
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Old 17th January 2020, 09:47 PM   #2054
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
You can blame the conservative politicians for their "money first" policies all you like but ultimately, it is the voters who are to blame.

Most of the seats that Labor lost at the last election were in Queensland - where giving the Aldani (coal) mine the go ahead means jobs for Queenslanders.
And Rupert Murdoch.
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Old 17th January 2020, 09:50 PM   #2055
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I like Albo. I really do. He's a really nice guy, highly personable, a very capable as leader, and has not put many steps wrong politically. But I'm damned if he doesn't look and sound like some suburban alderman or RSL treasurer in an ill-fitting suit when he's in parliament or the public eye. Barely an ounce of actual political charisma. Not PM material at all. Like his predecessor, he's the consummate amenable apparatchik, but not the figurehead.

I think Penny Wong would be ideal as PM. Her deputy should be Tony Burke.
Yeah, I think we can leave X factor stuff to Australia’s Got Talent. Lets put integrity, leadership (the getting things done kind that you allude to) and vision as priorities.
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Old 17th January 2020, 09:51 PM   #2056
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A critical piece about Scott Morrison from the ABC

Quote:
"Huge sums are being donated [by the government] but little is hitting the ground and none of it is transparent and accountable. There are many scams.
Scott Morrison is facing bushfires, a grants saga and a perfect storm of political hopelessness
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Old 17th January 2020, 09:57 PM   #2057
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Yeah, I think we can leave X factor stuff to Australia’s Got Talent. Lets put integrity, leadership (the getting things done kind that you allude to) and vision as priorities.
Politics 101, lesson 1. First get elected.

I know we most likely disagree, but I can’t see a scenario where Albo gets elected.
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Old 17th January 2020, 10:08 PM   #2058
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Yeah, I think we can leave X factor stuff to Australia’s Got Talent.
Point is that the X factor does define our national leaders. It overcomes some of their shortcomings and possibly less personable qualities, and makes the country want to follow them. The NZ PM has it, even though she had to wheel-and-deal with a minor party to get there, and has a number of serious domestic issues still to deal with.

Quote:
Lets put integrity, leadership (the getting things done kind that you allude to) and vision as priorities.
Totally agree. Albo has integrity, but he lacks national leadership qualities (not party, national) and fails to project the vision of himself or his party at any level. I'm betting 5 out of 10 Australians don't even know he is the Labor Party leader.

I did see Albo being a great guy and helping out in the bushfires. Top marks for being a good bloke and not taking a swipe at Soot Morrison as well. But when was the last time he was on national TV expounding Labor policy and taking it up to the LNP and burying them politically? I can't remember, can you? Know who HAS been doing that? Tony Burke, Manager of Opposition Business.
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Old 17th January 2020, 10:13 PM   #2059
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Politics 101, lesson 1. First get elected.

I know we most likely disagree, but I can’t see a scenario where Albo gets elected.
I wasn’t the only one who thought the last Labor leader, who pundits kept telling us was unliked, was going to be our next PM.

Little Johnny Howard was often spoken about as a leader without charisma but had the contrived cover story that he was a great economic manager.

Maybe he needs some Morrison marketing re branding to get him over the line. Show up to cricket and eat sausage sangers.

Albo is a bit too establishment for mine. Have not enjoyed the apologetic approach he has taken to Shorten’s campaign. We need a Labor leader who represents the workers. And there does seem to be something going on among conservatives in that area in that there is a distrust of the Coalition being in bed with corporations to the detriment of everyday Australians. Look at the way Xenophobia Pauline is voting on unions and labour issues. They have bought into the idea that Socialism is scary but could wake up to it.

Last edited by Sideroxylon; 17th January 2020 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 17th January 2020, 10:24 PM   #2060
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Which safe Labor seat would she parachute into?

The electorate is so cynical that may not win a lower house seat at all.
Interestingly, the PM does not have to be a lower house rep. Nor indeed should ministers of government.
Quote:
The only case where a member of the Senate was appointed Prime Minister was John Gorton, who subsequently resigned his Senate position and was elected as a member of the House of Representatives.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_...nd_appointment

Wong has held various ministerial positions while senator.
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Old 17th January 2020, 10:30 PM   #2061
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Did anyone ever think that weasel Morrison had charisma?
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Old 17th January 2020, 10:43 PM   #2062
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I know we most likely disagree, but I can’t see a scenario where Albo gets elected.
Don't be too quick to write off Albo. The old adage is that oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them.

In 1996, John Howard had only 2 things going for him: he managed to bury all signs of dissent within the Liberal and National parties (no mean feat) and he was not Paul Keating. By not doing anything wrong, he won by default.

Similarly, if Scumo continues to blunder his way through the bush fire crisis and Albo doesn't scare anybody, we could see a change of government at the next election.
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Old 17th January 2020, 10:50 PM   #2063
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Don't be too quick to write off Albo. The old adage is that oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them.

In 1996, John Howard had only 2 things going for him: he managed to bury all signs of dissent within the Liberal and National parties (no mean feat) and he was not Paul Keating. By not doing anything wrong, he won by default.

Similarly, if Scumo continues to blunder his way through the bush fire crisis and Albo doesn't scare anybody, we could see a change of government at the next election.
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Old 17th January 2020, 10:51 PM   #2064
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Don't be too quick to write off Albo. The old adage is that oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them.

In 1996, John Howard had only 2 things going for him: he managed to bury all signs of dissent within the Liberal and National parties (no mean feat) and he was not Paul Keating. By not doing anything wrong, he won by default.

Similarly, if Scumo continues to blunder his way through the bush fire crisis and Albo doesn't scare anybody, we could see a change of government at the next election.
Minor correction to the above. Howard had a third thing going for him. He knew he only needed those other two things, so he did not make any outrageous promises. The big question is will the opposition leader at the next election also know this?
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Old 17th January 2020, 11:12 PM   #2065
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Minor correction to the above. Howard had a third thing going for him. He knew he only needed those other two things, so he did not make any outrageous promises. The big question is will the opposition leader at the next election also know this?
Yes, Howard knew that he just had to avoid doing anything wrong and Keating's unpopularity would do the rest so he adopted a "small target" policy.

Kim Beazely tried the same tactic at the next election but it didn't work for him. Howard had performed better as a PM than most people expected him to and at that time, didn't have the unpopularity factor.
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Old 18th January 2020, 12:19 AM   #2066
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Interestingly, the PM does not have to be a lower house rep. Nor indeed should ministers of government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_...nd_appointment

Wong has held various ministerial positions while senator.
Yes I know a PM doesn’t have to be in the lower house, but in this age an upper house PM candidate (yes, I know, PMs are not directly elected) will not win. I’m absolutely certain of this.
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Old 18th January 2020, 02:13 AM   #2067
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Did anyone ever think that weasel Morrison had charisma?
Nope! A complete wet dishrag of a politician.

But since he was more "electorally popular" than his Labor opponent in the last election, it says a LOT about how much Labor missed that train. They only needed to put up a half personable leader with a coherent set of policies and they would have pissed it in.

But no... Bill Shorten is also a "good bloke". But he looked and sounded like some random passer-by dragged out of the crowd to read the RSL oath one evening. Uncomfortable with the position, not understanding why he was selected, and looking like he wanted to just melt back into the crowd thanks very much.

To me, Albo is much the same. A good anonymous party-room operative but no leader. He's not a Whitlam, or a Hawke, or even a Rudd.
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Old 18th January 2020, 02:15 AM   #2068
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Yes I know a PM doesn’t have to be in the lower house, but in this age an upper house PM candidate (yes, I know, PMs are not directly elected) will not win. I’m absolutely certain of this.
For obvious practical reasons rather than any rules or conventions. Even Gorton realised this, resigned from the Senate and coasted into a comfortable Reps seat later.
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Old 18th January 2020, 02:19 AM   #2069
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Don't be too quick to write off Albo. The old adage is that oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them.

In 1996, John Howard had only 2 things going for him: he managed to bury all signs of dissent within the Liberal and National parties (no mean feat) and he was not Paul Keating. By not doing anything wrong, he won by default.

Similarly, if Scumo continues to blunder his way through the bush fire crisis and Albo doesn't scare anybody, we could see a change of government at the next election.
He knew where the bodies were buried and made sure whoever buried them knew that he knew, having been a cabinet member including Treasurer for a longish time before he was PM.

In my opinion, Howard was a rather nasty piece of work pretending to be a nice young man.
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Old 18th January 2020, 03:25 AM   #2070
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
He knew where the bodies were buried and made sure whoever buried them knew that he knew, having been a cabinet member including Treasurer for a longish time before he was PM.

In my opinion, Howard was a rather nasty piece of work pretending to be a nice young man.
Without doubt. He was also surrounded by wet rag competitors like Peacock and Downer.
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Old 18th January 2020, 03:55 AM   #2071
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
To me, Albo is much the same. A good anonymous party-room operative but no leader. He's not a Whitlam, or a Hawke, or even a Rudd.
Typical. Capability has no relevance at the top of politics. We want show ponies.
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Old 19th January 2020, 02:21 PM   #2072
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post

To me, Albo is much the same. A good anonymous party-room operative but no leader. He's not a Whitlam, or a Hawke, or even a Rudd.

I think we should give Albo some time.

My ex Labor politician friend who knew him well thinks highly of him. A show pony he is not so he won't get psion's vote but I would give him a go.
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Old 19th January 2020, 02:22 PM   #2073
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Typical. Capability has no relevance at the top of politics. We want show ponies.

I'd rather you not speak for me.
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Old 19th January 2020, 07:47 PM   #2074
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Typical. Capability has no relevance at the top of politics. We want show ponies.
Then why is Morrison tanking so hard?
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Old 19th January 2020, 09:05 PM   #2075
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Typical. Capability has no relevance at the top of politics. We want show ponies.
Oh dear. So, SO wrong, on both counts. I should not have to spell this out but...

1) PM's have to be more than capable functionaries. They need to represent our country globally. To that extent, they need to be more than just personable in meetings, they need to represent us well as we would wish to be seen across the country and in all global settings. THIS IS PART OF THE JOB DESCRIPTION of PM.

2) Whitlam, Hawke and Rudd (to varying extents) were quite capable PM's. Not perfect, but definitely capable. They also had what could be called a certain cachet as leaders.

3) There have been plenty of conservative PM's who were also quite capable and also held that certain cachet. Some grew into it.

4) There have been plenty of PM's on both sides who were the antithesis of this. They repelled those around them, and made everyone feel worse for meeting or working with them. They did not make a great advertisement for our country, locally or globally. Morrison, our "good bloke" PM, is in this category right now.


Seriously, perhaps you shouldn't straw-man my comments, hmmm? I hope you will stop that in future.
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Old 19th January 2020, 11:11 PM   #2076
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
I think we should give Albo some time.

My ex Labor politician friend who knew him well thinks highly of him. A show pony he is not so he won't get psion's vote but I would give him a go.
Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
I'd rather you not speak for me.
In case you haven't realized it, that is not my view. I was echoing sentiments that I have read.
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Old 20th January 2020, 02:19 PM   #2077
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
In case you haven't realized it, that is not my view. I was echoing sentiments that I have read.

That wasn't clear to me.

If others do not understand what you are saying*, it may not be their lack of comprehension at fault. Could be your expression has something to do with it?


* This often seems the case from my observation.
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Old 20th January 2020, 08:15 PM   #2078
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So, Cory Bernardi is taking his bat and ball and going home.

Sorely missed he will not be. Glad to be rid of his homophobic and climate denying rhetoric. Had to fold up his Australian Conservative Party too through lack of interest it seems. So sad.
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Old 20th January 2020, 08:27 PM   #2079
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
So, Cory Bernardi is taking his bat and ball and going home.

Sorely missed he will not be. Glad to be rid of his homophobic and climate denying rhetoric. Had to fold up his Australian Conservative Party too through lack of interest it seems. So sad.
He's another one who if I ever saw him in public I'd go up and ask to shake his hand, and say "I would like to thank you very much... for retiring from politics. You have no idea how happy you have made me." And then I'd turn my back and walk away.
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Old 20th January 2020, 09:48 PM   #2080
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
He's another one who if I ever saw him in public I'd go up and ask to shake his hand, and say "I would like to thank you very much... for retiring from politics. You have no idea how happy you have made me." And then I'd turn my back and walk away.
I couldn't do that.




...I'd kick him in the balls and then turn my back and walk away.
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