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Old 10th January 2020, 02:17 AM   #1
Pixel42
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Windows 10 Photos app broken since September

When I tried to upload my holiday photos onto my laptop in November the Windows 10 Photos app froze after finding them and then crashed. I googled the problem and found this thread on the Microsoft forums:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...?auth=1&page=1

Over 1300 people have ticked the "I have the same problem" button.

The problem affects iPhones, Android phones/tablets and at least 2 different cameras, so it's definitely a Microsoft problem. It seems to have been introduced in a major update that was done in September.

Various workarounds have been posted, some seem to work for some people, but none work for me.

I've been looking for an alternative to the Photos app that I can download and use instead of it, but I can't find one. There are plenty of photo manipulation apps, but they all seem to assume the photos are already on your computer.

Do any of the knowledgable folks here have any suggestions?

ETA: The photos are on my Olympus camera.
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Old 10th January 2020, 06:28 AM   #2
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Try adding a couple of keywords to your searches: PTP (Picture Transfer Protocol) and/or MTP (Media Transfer Protocol.) These are the mechanisms that cameras and other media devices like MP3 players use to transfer files between them and the computer.

It may also be possible to set up your camera as a mass storage device, in which case Windows will treat it as USB flash drive.
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Old 10th January 2020, 02:50 PM   #3
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Try using file explorer. Connect the camera to the computer, then find the photos in the camera using file explorer. Then copy and paste to the desired location.
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Old 10th January 2020, 05:35 PM   #4
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Hmm, Windows won't transfer photos from an iPhone. Sounds like a feature, not a bug.

I just connect my Android phone as a storage device and copy. And edit with a 15 year old MS photo editing program.
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Old 10th January 2020, 07:19 PM   #5
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You should be able to share through email in a pinch.
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Old 10th January 2020, 07:48 PM   #6
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Hmm, Windows won't transfer photos from an iPhone. Sounds like a feature, not a bug.
Pixel is trying to move photos from an Olympus camera to a Windows 10 PC.
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Old 10th January 2020, 08:41 PM   #7
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Yes, treat the camera as a mass storage device and use File Explorer. That is most straight forward.


Photos is a horrible app. I'd suggest turning it down any chance you get. In the "open with..." dialog experiment with all the other options. They are all bound to be better (though some might be complicated).
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Old 10th January 2020, 10:36 PM   #8
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Thanks guys. I'd tried right clicking on the icon for my camera in file explorer but it didn't give me the "import photos" option for it. It showed my camera just as a USB device with a certain amount of storage. I tried fiddling with my camera's settings and changing the 'usb connection' from storage to MTP got it to change the icon to a camera and give me that import option. Great, right? Nope. After a search which took ages it informed me there were no photos of videos on it.

Yesterday I had a further play with it and managed to get file explorer to display the photos on my camera. It took ages to find and list them all (there are actually over 8000 on there) but yes, I can now copy individual photos over. It will take me ten times longer than Photos took to import them, but at least I can get them on my laptop now.

Thanks for the help guys.
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Old 10th January 2020, 11:07 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Thanks guys. I'd tried right clicking on the icon for my camera in file explorer but it didn't give me the "import photos" option for it. It showed my camera just as a USB device with a certain amount of storage. I tried fiddling with my camera's settings and changing the 'usb connection' from storage to MTP got it to change the icon to a camera and give me that import option. Great, right? Nope. After a search which took ages it informed me there were no photos of videos on it.

Yesterday I had a further play with it and managed to get file explorer to display the photos on my camera. It took ages to find and list them all (there are actually over 8000 on there) but yes, I can now copy individual photos over. It will take me ten times longer than Photos took to import them, but at least I can get them on my laptop now.

Thanks for the help guys.
A quick shortcut for you. When you can see the photos highlight one, then press Ctrl-A. Then all of the photos will be highlighted. You can then press Ctrl-C (copy) or Ctrl-X (cut) then go to the place you want the photos to be (this could even be another window) and Ctrl-V (paste).

Next time you want to do this it will be a lot quicker because you know what you are doing. This time it was a learning experience. The above is the way I normally copy photos from my camera. But I have bought a device I can plug into my computer where I can insert the memory and then it works identical to an external hard drive.
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Old 10th January 2020, 11:21 PM   #10
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The trouble with that is that I don't want to copy all the 8000 photos on my camera. Most of them are already on my laptop. I only want to copy the couple of hundred I've taken since Microsoft broke Photos. I couldn't see any way of selecting a subset to copy, it's either one or all.

[I don't delete photos from my camera once I've transferred them because I use its chip as my backup. When it's full I'll buy another chip.]
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Old 11th January 2020, 01:43 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
The trouble with that is that I don't want to copy all the 8000 photos on my camera. Most of them are already on my laptop. I only want to copy the couple of hundred I've taken since Microsoft broke Photos. I couldn't see any way of selecting a subset to copy, it's either one or all.

[I don't delete photos from my camera once I've transferred them because I use its chip as my backup. When it's full I'll buy another chip.]
I assume you want to copy all photos within a date range. Method.
1. Arrange the photos in date order. (View tab, sort by...)
2. Highlight the oldest photo you want to copy across.
3. Scroll to the newest photo.
4. Hold down the shift key and highlight that photo.
5. You will find that you have highlighted all the photos you want to copy across.
6. You can then copy just these ones.

NB: If it is easier steps 2 and 3 can be swapped.
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Old 11th January 2020, 01:49 AM   #12
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I knew there must be a way to select a subset. Shift + highlight, I never tried that. Thanks, rjh01.
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Old 11th January 2020, 02:09 AM   #13
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My pleasure. Adding the E back into ISF.

This is one of the strengths of this forum. One member has a problem, such as yours, there should be another that knows the answer. You would need heaps of friends on Facebook (or other social media) to duplicate this thread. And this forum is not even a specialist photography forum.
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Old 11th January 2020, 02:13 AM   #14
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If you do not know that trick try highlighting one photo, then holding down the ctrl key highlight another photo. And then a third.

You will find that you are highlighting just those photos.

In the above posts photos can also mean any type of document.
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Old 11th January 2020, 02:40 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
The trouble with that is that I don't want to copy all the 8000 photos on my camera. Most of them are already on my laptop. I only want to copy the couple of hundred I've taken since Microsoft broke Photos. I couldn't see any way of selecting a subset to copy, it's either one or all.

[I don't delete photos from my camera once I've transferred them because I use its chip as my backup. When it's full I'll buy another chip.]
1. Display them in "details" view

2. right click in the top "column" bar of the window and add a column... look for "date taken" and add it

3. Left click on the "Date Taken" column header to sort in that order oldest at the top, newest at the bottom (if the order is wrong, click the "Date Taken" header again)

4. Scroll down to the first photo (around September 2018) that you want to copy, and click (highlight) the filename.

5. Scroll all the way to the bottom, then hold the shift key and click the last filename (which should be the most recent). This will highlight all the files from the first one you want to the most recent.

6. Right click the highlight files and choose "copy"

7. Go yo where you want the photos to go, right click and choose "paste"

Done

NOTE: NEVER EVER delete or cut files from a camera or a camera memory card (that you expect to use in a camera) using a computer, especially if that computer is a Mac!. Always delete with the camera itself - there are very good reasons why, which I will explain if necessary.
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Old 11th January 2020, 07:34 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
The trouble with that is that I don't want to copy all the 8000 photos on my camera. Most of them are already on my laptop. I only want to copy the couple of hundred I've taken since Microsoft broke Photos. I couldn't see any way of selecting a subset to copy, it's either one or all.

[I don't delete photos from my camera once I've transferred them because I use its chip as my backup. When it's full I'll buy another chip.]
Another option -- instead of connecting the camera, take out the chip and put that in the corresponding computer slot (assuming you have one). No USB cord necessary!

Also, if you are copying to the same folder, doing a Select All should give you an option to allow or deny copies of duplicates. That way you can be sure you didn't miss any. I'd suggest doing that once for that chip. But if you're keeping track of what's new, you wouldn't need it to scan 8000 source photos every time.
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Old 11th January 2020, 07:45 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
NOTE: NEVER EVER delete or cut files from a camera or a camera memory card (that you expect to use in a camera) using a computer, especially if that computer is a Mac!. Always delete with the camera itself - there are very good reasons why, which I will explain if necessary.
Please do explain because I have been doing that with PCs for about 18 years now.
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Old 11th January 2020, 08:18 AM   #18
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I've managed to transfer my photos onto my laptop using File Explorer. The process was a little more tedious and time consuming than importing them with Photos, but it worked.

Thanks for the help, guys.
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Old 11th January 2020, 10:41 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
NOTE: NEVER EVER delete or cut files from a camera or a camera memory card (that you expect to use in a camera) using a computer, especially if that computer is a Mac!. Always delete with the camera itself - there are very good reasons why, which I will explain if necessary.
Please do. I do that all the time with an Android phone, a Canon DSLR, and either of two Windows laptops. I haven't had a problem.
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Old 11th January 2020, 12:43 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Please do explain because I have been doing that with PCs for about 18 years now.
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Please do. I do that all the time with an Android phone, a Canon DSLR, and either of two Windows laptops. I haven't had a problem.

There are a number of reasons why messing with camera image files using a computer instead of the camera is not a good idea

1. Many digital cameras use internal proprietary memory card management software to keep track of memory use. They do this by creating a database or index of files on the memory card. Sony is one brand that does this, Samsung, Olympus and Nikon also do this on some models. When you delete files using a computer, it does not update camera's index, so even though the files no longer exist, they are still listed in the index, and the camera management software won't allow those memory locations to be used. On some cameras, when you are reviewing pictures, you may get a blank image with "jpeg missing" or "jpeg corrupt". If you keep deleting images using a computer, you will find yourself running out of card space even though there are very few pictures on the card.

2. If your model of camera is NOT one that charges the battery through the USB connection, and the batteries run out while you are deleting files, the resulting mess on your card has to be seen to be believed.


Note the filenames, folder names and dates. Also note that this was a 2GB SD card - see anything peculiar?


3. With a Mac computer its even worse. When you delete files with a Mac, the files are not actually deleted, they are renamed by removing the first letter of the filename and replacing it with a full stop and an underscore, for example, IMG1234.JPG becomes ._MG1234.JPG. The Mac OS hides these files from the user, and makes their locations available for use. If you take the card and plug it into a PC and enable hidden files, you will be able to see them. On all models of camera, the camera software will not recognise that these files have been deleted. It still sees them, although it may not display them as the filename would no longer be compatible with the camera software's file naming protocol. This means you can't delete them using the camera either. The end result is the same as for 1. above, you will eventually run out of space on the memory card even though there are very few pictures on the card.

Also, while I am talking about this, it is not a good idea to rename files or move them around on a card. Many cameras have a very strict filename and location protocol. The files must be located in a sub-folder of a folder called "DCIM". That subfolder name will depend on the camera (100CANON, 100OLYMP, 100NIKON etc), and every 999 photos a new folder is created (101CANON, 102 NIKON etc). Changing these folder names, the image filenames or moving the image files to a different location on the card can either render those images invisible to the camera playback, or cause the camera to display a blank image with "jpeg missing" or "jpeg corrupt .

The only realistic option left for any of the above is so save everything and format the card, in the camera, using the camera software.
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Last edited by smartcooky; 11th January 2020 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 11th January 2020, 02:01 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
There are a number of reasons why messing with camera image files using a computer instead of the camera is not a good idea

1. Many digital cameras use internal proprietary memory card management software to keep track of memory use. They do this by creating a database or index of files on the memory card. Sony is one brand that does this, Samsung, Olympus and Nikon also do this on some models. When you delete files using a computer, it does not update camera's index, so even though the files no longer exist, they are still listed in the index, and the camera management software won't allow those memory locations to be used. On some cameras, when you are reviewing pictures, you may get a blank image with "jpeg missing" or "jpeg corrupt". If you keep deleting images using a computer, you will find yourself running out of card space even though there are very few pictures on the card.

2. If your model of camera is NOT one that charges the battery through the USB connection, and the batteries run out while you are deleting files, the resulting mess on your card has to be seen to be believed.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xd3j4ki4of...rupt.png?raw=1
Note the filenames, folder names and dates. Also note that this was a 2GB SD card - see anything peculiar?


3. With a Mac computer its even worse. When you delete files with a Mac, the files are not actually deleted, they are renamed by removing the first letter of the filename and replacing it with a full stop and an underscore, for example, IMG1234.JPG becomes ._MG1234.JPG. The Mac OS hides these files from the user, and makes their locations available for use. If you take the card and plug it into a PC and enable hidden files, you will be able to see them. On all models of camera, the camera software will not recognise that these files have been deleted. It still sees them, although it may not display them as the filename would no longer be compatible with the camera software's file naming protocol. This means you can't delete them using the camera either. The end result is the same as for 1. above, you will eventually run out of space on the memory card even though there are very few pictures on the card.

Also, while I am talking about this, it is not a good idea to rename files or move them around on a card. Many cameras have a very strict filename and location protocol. The files must be located in a sub-folder of a folder called "DCIM". That subfolder name will depend on the camera (100CANON, 100OLYMP, 100NIKON etc), and every 999 photos a new folder is created (101CANON, 102 NIKON etc). Changing these folder names, the image filenames or moving the image files to a different location on the card can either render those images invisible to the camera playback, or cause the camera to display a blank image with "jpeg missing" or "jpeg corrupt .

The only realistic option left for any of the above is so save everything and format the card, in the camera, using the camera software.
Thank you! This explains a lot of what I had to learn for myself for my Sony SLR.

Sony is famous for doing things in its own quirky way.
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Old 11th January 2020, 02:04 PM   #22
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Thanks for the explanation. I haven't had any such problems with two different Olympus and a Canon.

Also not a problem with my Samsung phone with its memory card.
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