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Old 19th November 2016, 06:07 AM   #1
zorro99
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Fake news is a threat to democracy

Quote:
Fixation on Fake News Overshadows Waning Trust in Real Reporting

By JOHN HERRMANNOV. 18, 2016

Something is deeply wrong when the pope’s voice, reputation and influence can be borrowed by a source that describes itself as “a fantasy news site” to claim that he has endorsed a presidential candidate, and then be amplified, unchallenged, through a million individual shares.

The attention paid to fake news since the election has focused largely on fabrications and outright lies, because they are indefensible, easy to identify and extraordinarily viral. Fake news is created by the kinds of people who, when asked, might call their work satire, or admit that they’re in it for the money or for the thrill of deception. Theirs is a behavior that can and should be shunned, and that Facebook is equipped, and maybe willing, to deal with.

Edited by Locknar:  SNIPed, breach of rule 4.


The overarching claims of the story were disingenuous and horrifying; the facts it included had been removed from all useful context and placed in a new, sinister one; its insinuating mention of “Muslim martyrs,” in proximity to mentions of Mr. Khan’s son, and its misleading and strategic mention of Shariah law, amounted to a repulsive smear. It was a story that appealed to bigoted ideas and that would clearly appeal to those who held them.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/19/bu...smtyp=cur&_r=1

Fake news is a threat to democracy. Ignorant citizens cannot function.
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Last edited by Locknar; 20th November 2016 at 08:54 AM. Reason: Edited, breach of rule 4
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Old 19th November 2016, 06:10 AM   #2
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The term "fake news" is too polite. It should be replaced with "lies."
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Old 19th November 2016, 07:18 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by zorro99 View Post
The term "fake news" is too polite. It should be replaced with "lies."
Fake news or lies is reporting, "Tiffany adopts alien baby to get father's attention." This is propaganda masquerading as fake news.
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Old 19th November 2016, 09:47 AM   #4
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Curious that part of the article regarding the fact wikileaks revealed the extent of the fake news ginned up by the Clinton campaign and spoon fed to its subservient media was not mentioned.

Curious.
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Old 19th November 2016, 09:52 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Curious that part of the article regarding the fact wikileaks revealed the extent of the fake news ginned up by the Clinton campaign and spoon fed to its subservient media was not mentioned.

Curious.
Its always good to have a subject matter expert at hand.
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Old 19th November 2016, 10:40 AM   #6
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Old 19th November 2016, 12:30 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by zorro99 View Post
Fake news is a threat to democracy. Ignorant citizens cannot function.
Disagree. This is the point of representative democracy rather than direct democracy. All news of value to me is local. The rest is merely entertainment.

Does it matter one whit to me whether Bill Cosby is alive or dead; whether Aleppo has fallen; whether Ivanka Trump is a man, or whether Barack Obama is a secret Muslim? No, no it does not.

Are killer clowns really stalking our children in North Carolina's woods? Of course they are - unless they're not.

What's for lunch?
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Old 19th November 2016, 12:44 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Its always good to have a subject matter expert at hand.
Thanks man, I have been been pointing out fake news sites like Media Matters and Think Progress for YEARS Nice that my fine efforts have been been successful.
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Old 19th November 2016, 12:55 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Thanks man, I have been been pointing out fake news sites like Media Matters and Think Progress for YEARS Nice that my fine efforts have been been successful.
You mean you weren't trying to fake us out all those years? Gee, I wish you had told me it wasn't just a gag.
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Old 19th November 2016, 01:09 PM   #10
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Some lady came on the line on a talk-news radio show (conservative). The host has been ridiculing campus protests against the election of Trump. The woman told him that a boy in an ambulance had died because the road was blocked by protesters. The host was honest enough to say - wait a minute, where are your reading this? She said, "It's right there on Facebook." He asked, "What is the date on it?" She had no idea, but then said it was related to Black Lives Matter and it happened in July.

He politely thanked her and the call ended. Now, I don't know if that was a real news story in July; maybe, maybe not. She bought it all, related it to election protesters and had failed to even look at the date.

A proliferation of fake news sites might help people learn to sort out reliable vs. unreliable "reporting." I don't see it as a partisan issue but a critical-thinking issue. Huffington Post put Hillary's chance of winning at 98 percent, which may have affected the election. People are seeing what they want to see. It's a good idea to look at more than one news source and always be aware that even trusted outlets aren't 100 percent reliable.
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Old 19th November 2016, 01:36 PM   #11
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I've been waiting for this thread. The Washington Post recently had an interview with a man who makes up fake viral news stories, though his uber-lame excuse is that he's engaging in "satire." He said...

Quote:
Honestly, people are definitely dumber. They just keep passing stuff around. Nobody fact-checks anything anymore — I mean, that’s how Trump got elected. He just said whatever he wanted, and people believed everything, and when the things he said turned out not to be true, people didn’t care because they’d already accepted it. It’s real scary. I’ve never seen anything like it....

My sites were picked up by Trump supporters all the time. I think Trump is in the White House because of me. His followers don’t fact-check anything — they’ll post everything, believe anything. His campaign manager posted my story about a protester getting paid $3,500 as fact. Like, I made that up. I posted a fake ad on Craigslist.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...because-of-me/

I saw a story -- probably a fabricated mainstream media lie -- about Macedonians writing anti-Clinton stories. Is it because Macedonians favor Trump? No, it's because Trump supporters will click on anything.

After the election, I had a pro-Trump supporter happy as a clam. He knew he could "never" vote for Clinton because he was one of the few people who "actually read the e-mails," which were "disgusting." I asked him to summarize a damning letter, and he went into great detail, impressively paraphrasing by memory. He recited names I did not recognize about a party I had never heard of. It all seemed innocuous enough but he explained that a line about how a "hot tub" would be "heated" meant they were going to molest children. Or something. Democrats apparently talk in elaborate code. After a little more probing, I found out this was one of Podesta's recent e-mails (so it had nothing to do with Clinton's private server). And I'm so sure this C-student was just one night trudging through primary sources rather than stumbling across some deplorable dog-**** "article" spinning its own demented, drug-addled interpretation.
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Old 19th November 2016, 01:53 PM   #12
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I saw a fair number of fake news stories and fake quotes from the left as well this election cycle.

This one was quite popular - and fake:

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"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.

Last edited by Fast Eddie B; 19th November 2016 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 19th November 2016, 02:03 PM   #13
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So easy to spot in others, so difficult to see in ourselves.

This is the backside of "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - things that confirm my bias, that seem ordinary and expected, require little if any evidence at all.
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Old 19th November 2016, 02:44 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I saw a fair number of fake news stories and fake quotes from the left as well this election cycle.

This one was quite popular - and fake:

https://a1skeptic.files.wordpress.co...uote.jpg?w=640
I also had a student claim Trump said that. I expressed skepticism, but others backed her up. That night I looked it up on Snopes, and told them at the next class meet that it was a lie. There was still a holdout who said she saw a video clip (couldn't even remember she had encountered it as a meme). I offered extra-credit to anyone who could produce the clip. The offer still stands.
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Old 19th November 2016, 05:52 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Fake news or lies is reporting, "Tiffany adopts alien baby to get father's attention." This is propaganda masquerading as fake news.
Not necessarily. There are "fake news" outlets that simply use programmes that generate fake news headlines tailored according to whatever gets the biggest hits and shares and thereby brings in the biggest ad revenue. The motive is often financial rather than political.
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Old 19th November 2016, 08:40 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I saw a fair number of fake news stories and fake quotes from the left as well this election cycle.

This one was quite popular - and fake:

https://a1skeptic.files.wordpress.co...uote.jpg?w=640
Yep, it was a fake quote. However, Trump did run his campaign based on the philosophy of the quote.
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.
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Old 19th November 2016, 08:48 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Yep, it was a fake quote. However, Trump did run his campaign based on the philosophy of the quote.
LOL. Fake but accurate. Ring a bell? Like with the accusations of racism and white supremacy, the focus by liberals on fake news helping Trump is just garbage rationalization. Fake news is as old as human history. More recently, the New York Times perfected it, and The Daily Show actually made it funny (well, until Jon Stewart retired I guess). Even the Associated Press has been getting in on the act lately.
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Old 19th November 2016, 08:53 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
LOL. Fake but accurate.
I'm glad you agree.
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Old 20th November 2016, 06:16 AM   #19
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Anyone remember the scorn and ridicule that Sarah Palin got for the "I can see Russia" quote? Something she never said?

Bad enough that she really did say that the Pledge of Allegiance, complete with "under God", was good enough for the founding founders!
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"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.
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Old 20th November 2016, 06:20 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
LOL. Fake but accurate. Ring a bell? Like with the accusations of racism and white supremacy, the focus by liberals on fake news helping Trump is just garbage rationalization. Fake news is as old as human history. More recently, the New York Times perfected it, and The Daily Show actually made it funny (well, until Jon Stewart retired I guess). Even the Associated Press has been getting in on the act lately.

this



Let libs ponder why they lost.



Maybe it was a racism, no wait fake news, yes, that's the ticket
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Old 20th November 2016, 08:42 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Anyone remember the scorn and ridicule that Sarah Palin got for the "I can see Russia" quote? Something she never said?
What she actually said was that she was qualified in foreign policy because Russia can be seen from her state. The latter is true, the former was not.
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Old 20th November 2016, 09:07 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
What she actually said was that she was qualified in foreign policy because Russia can be seen from her state. The latter is true, the former was not.
That's not as bad as when she told the story of eskimos having to feed their miscarried fetuses to sled dogs to avoid attracting polar bears.
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Old 20th November 2016, 09:56 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
What she actually said was that she was qualified in foreign policy because Russia can be seen from her state. The latter is true, the former was not.
She didn't say the former. You are spreading fake news. Here is the full transcript of the Charlie Gibson interview, where the proximity to Russia thing came up.
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Old 20th November 2016, 11:05 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by zorro99 View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/19/bu...smtyp=cur&_r=1

Fake news is a threat to democracy. Ignorant citizens cannot function.
No, there was always fake news. I have seen copy of journals from 19th and 16th century, it was all boulevard press (well if you could call that journalism it was mosly leaflet which survived to our day). There was a slight period of time when journalism was serious business in part I would say 1940 to 1970 roughly (beside the yellow journalism which continued to exist) , but 24h news and us wanting cheap news killed that.

Now this would not be a problem if people did now swallow codswallop readily and checked stuff around. Unfortunately this is not the case.

The threat to democracy is not fake news. The threat to democracy are voter which massively (right and left) decide to not fact check both side, and to not fact check news delivered to them. As said democracy need information. But it also need willing voted to search and check that info. That second part is essential and is IMO what has fallen to the byside.

Last edited by Aepervius; 20th November 2016 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 20th November 2016, 11:19 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Its always good to have a subject matter expert at hand.
A shame we don't with that source!!!!!
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Old 20th November 2016, 11:26 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Some lady came on the line on a talk-news radio show (conservative). The host has been ridiculing campus protests against the election of Trump. The woman told him that a boy in an ambulance had died because the road was blocked by protesters. The host was honest enough to say - wait a minute, where are your reading this? She said, "It's right there on Facebook." He asked, "What is the date on it?" She had no idea, but then said it was related to Black Lives Matter and it happened in July.

He politely thanked her and the call ended. Now, I don't know if that was a real news story in July; maybe, maybe not. She bought it all, related it to election protesters and had failed to even look at the date.

A proliferation of fake news sites might help people learn to sort out reliable vs. unreliable "reporting." I don't see it as a partisan issue but a critical-thinking issue. Huffington Post put Hillary's chance of winning at 98 percent, which may have affected the election. People are seeing what they want to see. It's a good idea to look at more than one news source and always be aware that even trusted outlets aren't 100 percent reliable.
Well, in all fairness, Democrats do mostly check the news, republickers will accept anything anti-Democrat as true as they cannot fathom that their thug leaders would lie to them -and they are pretty great at lying to themselves!!!!!
Problem is they deserve what they get, we don't.
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Old 20th November 2016, 11:29 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
No, there was always fake news. I have seen copy of journals from 19th and 16th century, it was all boulevard press (well if you could call that journalism it was mosly leaflet which survived to our day). There was a slight period of time when journalism was serious business in part I would say 1940 to 1970 roughly (beside the yellow journalism which continued to exist) , but 24h news and us wanting cheap news killed that.

Now this would not be a problem if people did now swallow codswallop readily and checked stuff around. Unfortunately this is not the case.

The threat to democracy is not fake news. The threat to democracy are voter which massively (right and left) decide to not fact check both side, and to not fact check news delivered to them. As said democracy need information. But it also need willing voted to search and check that info. That second part is essential and is IMO what has fallen to the byside.
Agreed. And since democracy has always lived with that threat, I would think it not fatal - more an opportunity for improvement. Hopefully we don't cast democracy and freedom aside in addressing it's unfortunate spawn.
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Old 20th November 2016, 11:33 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Well, in all fairness, Democrats do mostly check the news, republickers will accept anything anti-Democrat as true as they cannot fathom that their thug leaders would lie to them -and they are pretty great at lying to themselves!!!!!
Problem is they deserve what they get, we don't.
Does a false narrative count as fake news?
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Old 20th November 2016, 11:40 AM   #29
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I think my FaceBook feed is pretty balanced...

Most of my current friends and neighbors on Facebook are quite conservative.

Most of my old friends and family are quite liberal.

I'd put it at roughly 50/50.

I personally see no marked difference in gullibility, left vs. right. Neither has a monopoly on gullibility.
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Old 21st November 2016, 08:28 AM   #30
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How Fake News Goes Viral: A Case Study

By
Sapna Maheshwari

While some fake news is produced purposefully by teenagers in the Balkans or entrepreneurs in the United States seeking to make money from advertising, false information can also arise from misinformed social media posts by regular people that are seized on and spread through a hyperpartisan blogosphere.

Here, The New York Times deconstructs how Mr. Tucker’s now-deleted declaration on Twitter the night after the election turned into a fake-news phenomenon. It is an example of how, in an ever-connected world where speed often takes precedence over truth, an observation by a private citizen can quickly become a talking point, even as it is being proved false.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/bu...T.nav=top-news

This is how fake news spreads.
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Old 21st November 2016, 10:21 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Not necessarily. There are "fake news" outlets that simply use programmes that generate fake news headlines tailored according to whatever gets the biggest hits and shares and thereby brings in the biggest ad revenue. The motive is often financial rather than political.
Given clickbait revenue desires, I can easily imagine people whipping up politics-related fake headlines just to get people stirred up to click, whether through outrage or bias confirmation.

It's an evolutionary process driven by money -- the better sites which hire the more creative writers will flourish.


Now that the election is over, it should shift a lot more back to celebrity BS. Though there will still be an outrage industry over Trump for the foreseeable future, so those kinds of clickbaits should remain.
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Old 21st November 2016, 09:32 PM   #32
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Never accept the surface-level source as representative of the legitimacy of the article.

I got an article on my feed about one of Trump's advisers calling for a purge of the military and intelligence services to stock them with people loyal to Trump. Several people immediately piped in "fake news site". I checked the article and checked the root sources cited.

Turns out there is an actual recording of the interview where that was said.

"fake news site" is becoming the new ad hom of choice for short-circuiting debate, the latest version of "that's just some [media]". And (oddly enough) tends to get used more often when an arguer doesn't agree with the material presented.

Always check the base evidence before rejecting or accepting a claim.
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Old 21st November 2016, 09:37 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
Now that the election is over, it should shift a lot more back to celebrity BS. Though there will still be an outrage industry over Trump for the foreseeable future, so those kinds of clickbaits should remain.
Because there's nothing newsworthy about selecting a Chief Advisor who is at best "alt right" if not an outright neo-Nazi, an AG who was rejected as a judge for being too racist and who thinks it's not sexual assault to grab a woman by her vagina, or suddenly flip-flopping and agreeing to end Medicare as it exists, right?

The outrage is just beginning, as it should.
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Old 21st November 2016, 10:31 PM   #34
Kestrel
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This Denver Post article examines a fake news post that was widely shared on Facebook. On the surface it looked like an article on a newspaper web site, but there is no such newspaper and the article was a complete fabrication.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/11/05...nver-guardian/
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Old 21st November 2016, 10:55 PM   #35
Cain
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If mainstream media weren't so corrupt, then profit-seeking Macedonian teens wouldn't have to invent the truth.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 03:56 AM   #36
Stacko
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This is concerning.

Quote:
Montgomery could have reported the news, or simply blogged. But he noticed that fringe political pages would pick up just about anything that helped them make their point, including fabricated news. So National Report began publishing fake news about gun control, abortion, and President Obama, which Montgomery suspected would set off the right. It sure did. The sites quickly began aggregating his stories. “We really went for the confirmation bias thing,” Montgomery said. “What we assumed people wanted to hear, that was really what we were selling.”

National Report had impact. Real impact. Shortly after Montgomery fabricated a story about food stamps being used in Colorado to buy weed, the Colorado legislature introduced a real bill to ban the practice.

“That one was a fun one for me,” Montgomery said. “It’s not that hard to get people to share that stuff and to get the right-wing folks all riled up. It’s kind of scary how easy it is, really.”
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Old 22nd November 2016, 05:43 AM   #37
Roger Ramjets
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Thanks man, I have been been pointing out fake news sites like Media Matters and Think Progress for YEARS Nice that my fine efforts have been been successful.
Fake democrat makes fake accusations, then fakes success...
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Old 22nd November 2016, 06:44 AM   #38
sunmaster14
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This Fake News meme being spread by the mainstream media is the most ironic thing ever. Aside from the fact that the news about the importance of Fake News is, itself, fake, the mainstream media has been engaging in so-called fake news since the beginning of mainstream media.

Here's a great example from the front page of the NY Times (on the web).

And of course, the most effective form of propaganda isn't fake news as such. It's the curation of news most favorable to the point of view you're trying to convey. There are thousands of stories to pick from each day, all, more or less, true. It is quite easy to cherrypick those which help your cause and suppress those which don't. The New York Times is masterful at this. Curation of the facts of any particular story adds to the effect. Even favorable stories have dozens or hundreds of facts from which to choose, only a small number of which can be presented in an article. I bet I could even spin an unfavorable story as a favorable one with some cherrypicking and a strategic use of adjectives and passive versus active voice.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 06:53 AM   #39
Fast Eddie B
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This week's Reliable Sources has a discussion of Fake News and its implications.
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“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017.
"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 06:57 AM   #40
Ron Swanson
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Just for the record .... there IS more than one geographical location on Alaskan soil wher the shoreline of Russia is visible on clear days.
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