New telepathy test, the sequel.

[Jack by the hedge]

Originally Posted by Michel H

Actually, we don't really know how weak these radio emissions from our brains are, because they seem to have never been measured seriously (they might actually not be so weak).

You might like to look up "electroencephalography". People have been detecting, measuring and studying the electrical output of human brains for almost a century.

[JimOfAllTrades]

Originally Posted by Ladewig

You all love logic and critical thinking and you believe that if people are shown how illogical their belief systems are then they will change. That will not happen in this case. yes, it is sad; but continuing to argue with someone who has repeatedly stated he will not change his mind no matter what evidence is presented is a fool's errand and helps nobody.

You are correct, and I regret having been tempted to join in again. I'll bow out now, hopefully for the last time.

[Michel H]

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

You might like to look up "electroencephalography". People have been detecting, measuring and studying the electrical output of human brains for almost a century.

I am well aware of EEG (I mentioned it in my post #156). I was writing about electromagnetic radiation by the brain in the radio frequency range (and, in the case of telepathy, the most interesting frequencies are probably around 10 MHz, I suppose (though this is really unproved speculation)). The radio frequency range starts at 3 kHz (see my post #153, where I quoted wikipedia), while EEG frequencies are at most about 100 Hz, as I explained to you in post #156 (I hope that you know what a frequency is, and what MHz means).

As far as I know, electromagnetic radiation by the brain around 10 MHz has never been measured seriously, making such a measurement would certainly much more difficult than stating "this poster will not change his mind no matter what evidence is presented", after a beer or two.

[stanfr]

I'll repeat my question and rephrase:

Assume you learned tomorrow that you have no telepathic ability.
How would your life change? Would you be better or worse off and why?

This is not a trick question--because I don't know your answer and I can't even speculate on it. I just am curious as to your mindset.

[Jack by the hedge]

Yes, thanks, I'm familiar with the terminology.

10MHz happens to be a radio frequency much used by radio amateurs for long distance communication. There have been people listening intently to the 10MHz/30 metre band for many decades. So far as I'm aware, nobody has yet reported reception from a distant source being interfered with by the presence of human brains closer to the receiver. Not even if there were many millions of them within a few miles.

[Michel H]

Originally Posted by stanfr

I'll repeat my question and rephrase:

Assume you learned tomorrow that you have no telepathic ability.
How would your life change? Would you be better or worse off and why?

This is not a trick question--because I don't know your answer and I can't even speculate on it. I just am curious as to your mindset.

I find your question a little perverse, stanfr, so I shall omit answering it.

[Nay_Sayer]

Originally Posted by Michel H

I find your question a little perverse, stanfr, so I shall omit answering it.

How in any way shape or form is it perverse?

Time to add a new event

Events so far ( I know I missed a few)

1. Michel made a telepathy test with only four options, He failed.
2. Michel makes another test addinign in MD5 hash to try and get honest answers, He fails again.
3. Michel makes yet another test and inroduces his credibility meter and using cherry picking selects only answers he deems to be sincere, the test was a failure yet again.
4. Michel claims to be able to spot sarcasm and jokes but has taken numerous joke posts seriously.
5. Michel claims he can detect lies but goes 0-5 when tested.
6. Michel says being under water or in a submarine may block his thoughts but he isn't sure.
7. Michel now thinks nearly very honest question is either a trick question
8. Michel is asked a direct, non leading, non trick, straight forward question, He refuses to answer and labels the question "perverse".

[Michel H]

Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer

How in any way shape or form is it perverse?

Time to add a new event

Events so far ( I know I missed a few)

1. Michel made a telepathy test with only four options, He failed.
2. Michel makes another test addinign in MD5 hash to try and get honest answers, He fails again.
3. Michel makes yet another test and inroduces his credibility meter and using cherry picking selects only answers he deems to be sincere, the test was a failure yet again.
4. Michel claims to be able to spot sarcasm and jokes but has taken numerous joke posts seriously.
5. Michel claims he can detect lies but goes 0-5 when tested.
6. Michel says being under water or in a submarine may block his thoughts but he isn't sure.
7. Michel now thinks nearly very honest question is either a trick question
8. Michel is asked a direct, non leading, non trick, straight forward question, He refuses to answer and labels the question "perverse".

I think it would be far more accurate to say that the latest telepathy test I have done on this forum (in which Emily's Cat gave an incorrect and non-credible answer, while cullennz, from New Zealand (the antipode, for me in Belgium), gave a correct and credible answer, opening post, analysis) was a superb success.

The final part of this post reposted content that had been banished with cause to AAH. It should not appear here. However, since it did raise an issue of forum management, it has been copied to the appropriate area of the forum for such discussions. The post can be found here.

Posted By:jsfisher

[Jack by the hedge]

Originally Posted by Michel H

... You got to protect collective lie, you know.

Protect it from what?

[p0lka]

Originally Posted by Michel H

I think it would be far more accurate to say that the latest telepathy test I have done on this forum (in which Emily's Cat gave an incorrect and non-credible answer, while cullennz, from New Zealand (the antipode, for me in Belgium), gave a correct and credible answer, opening post, analysis) was a superb success.

<snip>

Edited by jsfisher:

<snip> Moderated content and response to same redacted.

[Donn]

Michel's urine subtraction detection system is offline.

[Nay_Sayer]

Originally Posted by Michel H

I think it would be far more accurate to say that the latest telepathy test I have done on this forum (in which Emily's Cat gave an incorrect and non-credible answer, while cullennz, from New Zealand (the antipode, for me in Belgium), gave a correct and credible answer, opening post, analysis) was a superb success.

Edited by jsfisher:

<snip> Moderated content redacted.

Nothing you have done in these threads is even remotely close to a "Superb Success" in your mind it is, Which again I ask, Why are you doing all this? What is the point? is there anything that would ever get you to start doubting?

[Dave Rogers]

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

I have a better idea. I believe I can communicate with people using the Internet. I will take Kid Eager's challenge. Kid Eager, please PM me one of the words on your list. I will then post the word on this forum, and invite other people to tell me which word I posted. That way, we can determine whether your challenge is capable of giving a positive result, or whether, as Michel H claims, it is too difficult a challenge for anyone to meet accurately and seriously.

Everybody on for this?

Dave

I'm starting to worry about this. I think Kid Eager may have got the idea a bit muddled and tried to send me the word telepathically.

Dave

[p0lka]

I say 'missile'.

[Michel H]

Hi, I invite you to participate in a telepathy test.

At about 5:47 p.m. on this Friday October 14 (Brussels, Belgium time), I wrote carefully one of the ten words: "Belgium", "England", "Scotland", "Ireland", "U.S.A.", "Australia", "New Zealand", "France", "Germany" and "Russia" on my sheet of paper, and I surrounded it with a rough ellipse. Then, I wrote it again twice.

I shall repeat this word from time to time during this test.

I ask you to write it here (if you think you know it, even with a doubt). You may also answer "I don't know".

In an attempt to try to give some clarity to this test, I also ask you to answer the following question :
Do you sometimes have an impression of "hearing some of my thoughts", because of an unusual telepathy phenomenon?
My (first) name is Michel, I live near Brussels (Belgium).

Thank you for participating.

[Dave Rogers]

I have no idea what word you wrote. I am 100% certain of this. I have never felt any sensation of receiving thoughts from you or any other person other than via the usual sensory apparatus.

Dave

[Donn]

Deja remote vu...

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

[Michel H]

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

I have no idea what word you wrote. I am 100% certain of this. I have never felt any sensation of receiving thoughts from you or any other person other than via the usual sensory apparatus.

Dave

Thank you for your answer, Dave Rogers. It does certainly have a virtue of clarity. Whether it has a virtue of honesty as well is a different issue.

[Michel H]

Originally Posted by Donn

Deja remote vu...

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

Yes, I sometimes wonder myself why I am still doing these tests.

[Jack by the hedge]

I don't know which word you wrote.

I never have an impression of seeming to hear some of your thoughts.

This is a completely honest and sincere answer without any sarcasm or hidden jokes at all.

[Dave Rogers]

Originally Posted by Michel H

Thank you for your answer, Dave Rogers. It does certainly have a virtue of clarity. Whether it has a virtue of honesty as well is a different issue.

And this is why it is pointless to engage with you; you reject as a lie any answer that disagrees with your starting hypothesis. You've said before, by the way, that clearer and more definite answers are of better quality; I presume that rule has now become inconvenient and must be jettisoned.

Dave

[John Jones]

Please Merge!

[Michel H]

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

... You've said before, by the way, that clearer and more definite answers are of better quality; I presume that rule has now become inconvenient and must be jettisoned.

Dave

Did I really say this? (you are not quoting me, using the technical possibilities of this forum).

I don't think a super-clear and very-dishonest answer is better than a partly honest and somewhat ambiguous reply, no.

[Dave Rogers]

Originally Posted by John Jones

Please Merge!

Already reported.

Dave

[Dave Rogers]

Originally Posted by Michel H

I don't think a super-clear and very-dishonest answer is better than a partly honest and somewhat ambiguous reply, no.

And how do you determine the level of honesty?

Dave

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

This test would be more valid if you didn't give any options. Let people choose from the whole range of all words from all languages. If people can really hear your thoughts then a large number of people should get the correct word, even just by writing the first thing that comes into their heads.

In order to prevent people copying each other, you could have people send them to you via PM, and you reveal after a week or a month what all the different words were. You should also send the word you're thinking of to a trusted person in advance.

If, say, 60% of people get the word correct, then that counts as a pass.

What say you?

[DuvalHMFIC]

Canada

[Dave Rogers]

Originally Posted by Michel H

Did I really say this? (you are not quoting me, using the technical possibilities of this forum).

You've said a great many things, and the sheer volume of posts makes it difficult to find any specific statement. But here's a set of criteria for determining the honesty of a post that you posted some time ago. I note that you say these criteria are, not that these criteria include, the items on the list.

Originally Posted by Michel H

Like I did for a previous test done on Yahoo! Answers (see this thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=237268 ), I have studied each of the 13 valid answers to this test, and I have given to each a "credibility rating" (CR) between -10 and +10. Credible answers (i.e. those with a positive CR) are ideally kind and smart, while non-credible answers (which get a negative CR), are those which do not sound serious, sincere and reliable. Reasons why an answer may not be credible are:
• It is too aggressive.
• It contains one or several incorrect statements.
• It is odd or bizarre.
• The answerer says that his/her answer is not related to telepathy.
• The answer contains a very large number of spelling or syntaxic errors.

And let's recap my response.

I have no idea what word you wrote. I am 100% certain of this. I have never felt any sensation of receiving thoughts from you or any other person other than via the usual sensory apparatus.

Which of your criteria apply to this statement?

Dave

[Michel H]

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

You've said a great many things, and the sheer volume of posts makes it difficult to find any specific statement. But here's a set of criteria for determining the honesty of a post that you posted some time ago. I note that you say these criteria are, not that these criteria include, the items on the list.



And let's recap my response.

I have no idea what word you wrote. I am 100% certain of this. I have never felt any sensation of receiving thoughts from you or any other person other than via the usual sensory apparatus.

Which of your criteria apply to this statement?

Dave

I see no obvious reason why I should discard your statement as non-credible. However, it is my experience that, in the area of telepathy, people can frequently be very dishonest. I am not that interested in polished "standard lies".

I also note that you did not choose any of the ten countries proposed in my opening post, as your answer (it's usually when people really participate in the test, by making a definite choice in the forced-choice test, that things begin to become more interesting).

[JimOfAllTrades]

A very sincere answer.

I looked at and concentrated on each word in your list for several seconds. I did that several times.

I got no impression of any of the words over any of the others, so I don't know what word you wrote.

I have never had any impression that I could hear your thoughts or those of anyone else.

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by Michel H

Hi, I invite you to participate in a telepathy test.

At about 5:47 p.m. on this Friday October 14 (Brussels, Belgium time), I wrote carefully one of the ten words: "Belgium", "England", "Scotland", "Ireland", "U.S.A.", "Australia", "New Zealand", "France", "Germany" and "Russia" on my sheet of paper, and I surrounded it with a rough ellipse. Then, I wrote it again twice.

I shall repeat this word from time to time during this test.

I ask you to write it here (if you think you know it, even with a doubt). You may also answer "I don't know".

In an attempt to try to give some clarity to this test, I also ask you to answer the following question :
Do you sometimes have an impression of "hearing some of my thoughts", because of an unusual telepathy phenomenon?
My (first) name is Michel, I live near Brussels (Belgium).

Thank you for participating.

I have no idea which word you chose or wrote. I have never received any thought from you.

[P.J. Denyer]

I also have no idea what word you wrote, I cannot and have never, heard your thoughts.

[Hokulele]

I don't know.

I have never had the impression I was hearing someone else's thoughts.

I choose not to share personal information such as my name and location in a public post.

[Nay_Sayer]

Originally Posted by Michel H

Hi, I invite you to participate in a telepathy test.

At about 5:47 p.m. on this Friday October 14 (Brussels, Belgium time), I wrote carefully one of the ten words: "Belgium", "England", "Scotland", "Ireland", "U.S.A.", "Australia", "New Zealand", "France", "Germany" and "Russia" on my sheet of paper, and I surrounded it with a rough ellipse. Then, I wrote it again twice.

I shall repeat this word from time to time during this test.

I ask you to write it here (if you think you know it, even with a doubt). You may also answer "I don't know".

In an attempt to try to give some clarity to this test, I also ask you to answer the following question :
Do you sometimes have an impression of "hearing some of my thoughts", because of an unusual telepathy phenomenon?
My (first) name is Michel, I live near Brussels (Belgium).

Thank you for participating.

This is now getting to just be spam.

You will not care what the results are, This is a pointless endeavor as all your other tests have been.

[Nay_Sayer]

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

And how do you determine the level of honesty?

Dave

Same we he does credibility. If the person answered correctly then it's credible/honest if they picked something else then what he circled they are not credible/dishonest.

ETA: Michel; I do not know what word you wrote or circled, I cannot and have never heard your thoughts, ever

[calebprime]

I do not have any idea. I can't read thoughts. No one can. I've never heard any of your thoughts.

[JesseCuster]

Originally Posted by Michel H

Do you sometimes have an impression of "hearing some of my thoughts", because of an unusual telepathy phenomenon?

No, I have never had any such impression.

And I have no idea what word you wrote down.

[DuvalHMFIC]

I believe the word you wrote down was "Camgirls"

[Fidelio]

Originally Posted by Michel H

*snip* However, it is my experience that, in the area of telepathy, people can frequently be very dishonest.

*snip*

Wow, just... wow. Amazing.

[Arisia]

I have never had the impression of hearing or otherwise perceiving anyone else's thoughts, so I have no idea which word you wrote down and thought about.