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Old 13th September 2017, 02:14 PM   #1
Ranb
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Criticism of Trump a fireable offense?//Women gives Trump the finger, is fired.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/13/medi...use/index.html

ESPN Host Jemele Hill doesn't like Trump, and says so publicly.
Quote:
Hill has been vociferously critical of the president all year long, but she went further this time, calling Trump a "bigot," a "threat" and "the most ignorant, offensive president of my lifetime."

The tweet that garnered the most reaction said: "Donald Trump is a white supremacist who has largely surrounded himself w/ other white supremacists."

Hill, an African American woman, followed up with this: "His rise is a direct result of white supremacy. Period."

The White House responds with;
Quote:
From the White House podium, Sarah Sanders said Hill's criticism of the president was a "fireable offense by ESPN."
I think this is just another example of the Trump administration shooting itself in the foot. Trump has all but said that neo-nazis are his people; it should be no surprise that people object to it very publicly.

Ranb

ETA; and yes, I've botched my thread title again, two words wrong this time.

Mod InfoMerged with "Women gives Trump the finger, is fired."
Posted By:TubbaBlubba

Last edited by TubbaBlubba; 8th November 2017 at 05:18 PM.
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Old 13th September 2017, 02:20 PM   #2
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Why is her skin colour important to the article?
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Old 13th September 2017, 02:27 PM   #3
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Not sure why CNN's Brian Stelter thinks so. Maybe it is to contrast Trump's alleged racism/nazi overtones to Hill's skin color?
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Old 13th September 2017, 02:28 PM   #4
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I have always consistently taken the position that there is no free speech when it comes to employment. You say something your employer doesn't like and you get fired, too bad.

But for the White House to come out and say you should be fired because you criticized the president?

That's chilling.
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Old 13th September 2017, 02:30 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
But for the White House to come out and say you should be fired because you criticized the president?

That's chilling.
It's stupid when they call for her to be fired. It's chilling if ESPN actually fires her as a result of the White House's rant.
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Old 13th September 2017, 02:31 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/13/medi...use/index.html

ESPN Host Jemele Hill doesn't like Trump, and says so publicly.



The White House responds with;

I think this is just another example of the Trump administration shooting itself in the foot. Trump has all but said that neo-nazis are his people; it should be no surprise that people object to it very pub
Ranb

ETA; and yes, I've botched my thread title again, two words wrong this time.
I'm sure Hill is a union member and is working under a contract with her employer, so unless there's a specific condition of employment that she can not express her personal opinion in public it wouldn't necessarily constitute a fireable offense.

Had she spewed out a combination of the seven dirty words on air while doing so, that would probably support a one-way trip out the door.
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Old 13th September 2017, 02:43 PM   #7
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This woman is an expert at using over the top comments to get attention.

Back in 2008 she wrote this in her column for ESPEN:

"Rooting for the Celtics is like saying Hitler was a victim. It's like hoping Gorbachev would get to the blinking red button before Reagan. Deserving or not, I still hate the Celtics."

She got a one week suspension for that but her career arc did not suffer - it went up.

I believe that this was a calculated last ditch effort to get attention for a failing TV show.
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Old 13th September 2017, 03:02 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
But for the White House to come out and say you should be fired because you criticized the president?

That's chilling.


Yeah, this. The only people who can decide if this is a fireable offense are the employers.
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Old 13th September 2017, 03:04 PM   #9
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I believe the (implied) criticism is that Hill wasn't fired because of her race while a white colleague (sorry, his name escapes me at the moment) was recently fired from ESPN for making political comments.

The reality is that ESPN has a policy against making political comments. This was Hill's 1st offense, so she got a warning. The other host had repeatedly violated the policy, so he got canned.
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Old 13th September 2017, 03:27 PM   #10
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ESPN would be within its rights to fire her if she harmed their public image. But for the White House to call for her firing is disturbing. That's a genuine First Amendment concern.
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Old 13th September 2017, 03:54 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
It's stupid when they call for her to be fired. It's chilling if ESPN actually fires her as a result of the White House's rant.
It starts being chilling the moment that the highest office of government publicly proclaims you should have your livelihood taken away because you said something they didn't like.
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Old 13th September 2017, 04:17 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
It starts being chilling the moment that the highest office of government publicly proclaims you should have your livelihood taken away because you said something they didn't like.
It is a political office. They can speak publicly.
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Old 13th September 2017, 04:20 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It is a political office. They can speak publicly.
Yes, they can. Thank you for confirming the thing no one denied.
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Old 13th September 2017, 04:27 PM   #14
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ZOMG, Trump is literally Hitler!
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Old 13th September 2017, 04:32 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Yes, they can. Thank you for confirming the thing no one denied.
If they can then there is no problem.
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:18 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
I believe the (implied) criticism is that Hill wasn't fired because of her race while a white colleague (sorry, his name escapes me at the moment) was recently fired from ESPN for making political comments.

The reality is that ESPN has a policy against making political comments. This was Hill's 1st offense, so she got a warning. The other host had repeatedly violated the policy, so he got canned.
You have your facts wrong. The host was Linda Cohn. A she, not a he. And she was suspended, not fired. And the suspension wasn't for making political comments. She was suspended for saying that ESPN was losing viewers by being too political (and that they overpaid for a bunch of broadcast rights). And that's objectively true. But it makes management look bad. That's why they punished her. It's got nothing to do with her being political.
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:19 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
It starts being chilling the moment that the highest office of government publicly proclaims you should have your livelihood taken away because you said something they didn't like.
Would it bother you more or less if Trump said that his political opponents should be audited by the IRS?
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:32 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You have your facts wrong. The host was Linda Cohn. A she, not a he. And she was suspended, not fired. And the suspension wasn't for making political comments. She was suspended for saying that ESPN was losing viewers by being too political (and that they overpaid for a bunch of broadcast rights). And that's objectively true. But it makes management look bad. That's why they punished her. It's got nothing to do with her being political.
I assumed the fired broadcaster in question was Curt Schilling?
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:37 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
I believe the (implied) criticism is that Hill wasn't fired because of her race while a white colleague (sorry, his name escapes me at the moment) was recently fired from ESPN for making political comments.

The reality is that ESPN has a policy against making political comments. This was Hill's 1st offense, so she got a warning. The other host had repeatedly violated the policy, so he got canned.
Not true.

This is at least her second offense,, she was previously suspended for a week for making other stupid comments:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...ds-jemele-hill
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:38 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
This woman is an expert at using over the top comments to get attention.

Back in 2008 she wrote this in her column for ESPEN:

"Rooting for the Celtics is like saying Hitler was a victim. It's like hoping Gorbachev would get to the blinking red button before Reagan. Deserving or not, I still hate the Celtics."

She got a one week suspension for that but her career arc did not suffer - it went up.

I believe that this was a calculated last ditch effort to get attention for a failing TV show.
The show is failing? She was recently promoted because her shows got better ratings than her peers.

Originally Posted by gregthehammer View Post
I assumed the fired broadcaster in question was Curt Schilling?
I forget the particulars but I seem to recall what he said was overtly racist and not just a political opinion.
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:38 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
ZOMG, Trump is literally Hitler!
Nope. Dubya was literally Hitler, remember? Trump is, *Double Hitler*. Or something.

This signature is intended to irradiate people.
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:44 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
If they can then there is no problem.

Being able to speak publicly and being somehow free from criticism for that speech are two different things.

Being able to speak publicly and infringing on someone's civil rights under color of law are two different things. That hasn't happened in this case, but it's a step towards that if left unanswered.
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:54 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Being able to speak publicly and being somehow free from criticism for that speech are two different things.

Being able to speak publicly and infringing on someone's civil rights under color of law are two different things. That hasn't happened in this case, but it's a step towards that if left unanswered.
But criticism over disagreement does not mean the other side is a problem.
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:54 PM   #24
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Well, she's right.

Of course, a company like ESPNB can fire her if they wanna. But she isn't saying anything incorrect.
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Old 13th September 2017, 06:02 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
Not true.

This is at least her second offense,, she was previously suspended for a week for making other stupid comments:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...ds-jemele-hill
...A decade ago? This loose cannon is off the rails!
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Old 13th September 2017, 06:09 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Would it bother you more or less if Trump said that his political opponents should be audited by the IRS?
Depends. What day of the week would this be happening? And what color tie would Trump be wearing at the time?
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Old 13th September 2017, 06:23 PM   #27
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Then:
Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
There is no contrast, since antifa also seeks to overturn principle of this country. Free speech, for example.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Not actually KFILE's job. They're supposedly investigative journalists, not Internet Thought Police.
Now:
Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
ZOMG, Trump is literally Hitler!
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Nope. Dubya was literally Hitler, remember? Trump is, *Double Hitler*. Or something.

So for those keeping score at home, sir drinks-a-lot and theprestige think a random collection of black-clad goofballs and CNN are bigger threats to free speech than the government... you know, the only one of those three who can actually threaten free speech.

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Old 13th September 2017, 06:57 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Then:

Now:

So for those keeping score at home, sir drinks-a-lot and theprestige think a random collection of black-clad goofballs and CNN are bigger threats to free speech than the government... you know, the only one of those three who can actually threaten free speech.
Umm, pretty sure that black masked thugs attacking speakers can absolutely be a threat to free speech.

The fact that certain people do not understand that free speech is broader than freedom from governmental regulation is *********** baffling.
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Old 13th September 2017, 08:11 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
But criticism over disagreement does not mean the other side is a problem.

Um ... what?
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Old 13th September 2017, 08:35 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Um ... what?
There isn't a technical problem with the white house asking someone to be fired...only a disagreement about what someone should do.
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Old 13th September 2017, 08:58 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Umm, pretty sure that black masked thugs attacking speakers can absolutely be a threat to free speech.
No, it can't. Consult the First Amendment if you have further questions on this issue.

Quote:
The fact that certain people do not understand that free speech is broader than freedom from governmental regulation is *********** baffling.
Seriously, you should read the First Amendment. It's not very long, and clearly defines from whom speech is made free. (Spoiler alert: It's the government, and no one else.)

Last edited by johnny karate; 13th September 2017 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 13th September 2017, 09:04 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/13/medi...use/index.html

ESPN Host Jemele Hill doesn't like Trump, and says so publicly.



The White House responds with;

I think this is just another example of the Trump administration shooting itself in the foot. Trump has all but said that neo-nazis are his people; it should be no surprise that people object to it very publicly.

Ranb

ETA; and yes, I've botched my thread title again, two words wrong this time: (
Leave that poor Jabba creature alone! He might be a pitiful wretch who knows no better than RanB, Jabba, or those other pitiful wretches but at least he isn't a pitiful wretch who knows no better than RanB, Jabba, or those other pitiful wretches.
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Old 13th September 2017, 09:10 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
...A decade ago? This loose cannon is off the rails!
I was responding to this:

Quote:
The reality is that ESPN has a policy against making political comments. This was Hill's 1st offense, so she got a warning. The other host had repeatedly violated the policy, so he got canned.
It isn't her first offence whether it happened last week, last year or a decade ago.

If you want to give her a pass for those dumb comments she herself recognized as being inappropriate, feel free to do so.

I guess we shouldn't worry about these moronic comments either, after all a decade has passed since they were made too.
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Old 13th September 2017, 09:28 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
There isn't a technical problem with the white house asking someone to be fired...only a disagreement about what someone should do.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Are you saying we shouldn't discuss the bounds of government interference in speech until the government has interfered with it past the bounds that we set up at some point after discussing it?
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Old 14th September 2017, 02:41 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
The show is failing? She was recently promoted because her shows got better ratings than her peers.

The show she is currently doing is called SC6. I really don't care what she did previously. In the entertainment industry - it's all about what you are doing today.

Here are some facts about her new show: While they are still the most highly viewed episodes so far, SC6 is down 20% compared to the 2016 SportsCenter.

... the numbers decreased (relative to the previous year) after the first month. That, along with the declines year-over-year around key events, should be cause for more concern.


http://thebiglead.com/2017/05/09/sc6...-sportscenter/
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Old 14th September 2017, 03:26 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
ESPN would be within its rights to fire her if she harmed their public image. But for the White House to call for her firing is disturbing. That's a genuine First Amendment concern.
Of course not, it is only racist or sexist statements that need protection in the form of free speech. Criticising our leader when we need to come together for the good of the country when we finally have a white president is right out.
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Old 14th September 2017, 05:08 AM   #37
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Why single her out? According to his approval ratings, this doesn't seem far off what most Americans think of him.

Last edited by Craig4; 14th September 2017 at 05:09 AM.
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Old 14th September 2017, 05:55 AM   #38
Mark F
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You have your facts wrong. The host was Linda Cohn. A she, not a he. And she was suspended, not fired. And the suspension wasn't for making political comments. She was suspended for saying that ESPN was losing viewers by being too political (and that they overpaid for a bunch of broadcast rights). And that's objectively true. But it makes management look bad. That's why they punished her. It's got nothing to do with her being political.
Originally Posted by gregthehammer View Post
I assumed the fired broadcaster in question was Curt Schilling?
Curt Schilling is who I was thinking of. Never heard of Linda Cohn.

Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
Not true.

This is at least her second offense,, she was previously suspended for a week for making other stupid comments:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...ds-jemele-hill
Not exactly the same thing.
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Last edited by Mark F; 14th September 2017 at 05:58 AM.
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Old 14th September 2017, 06:07 AM   #39
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I have no idea what you're talking about. Are you saying we shouldn't discuss the bounds of government interference in speech until the government has interfered with it past the bounds that we set up at some point after discussing it?
I'm making my statement on what is the bounds of government interference and taking a stand that this is inside it.
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Old 14th September 2017, 06:16 AM   #40
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
No, it can't. Consult the First Amendment if you have further questions on this issue.

Seriously, you should read the First Amendment. It's not very long, and clearly defines from whom speech is made free. (Spoiler alert: It's the government, and no one else.)
I repeat again: The fact that certain people do not understand that free speech is broader than freedom from governmental regulation is *********** baffling.

Freedom of speech is a fundamental human right, and is a constraint on governmental power. Heck, people in other countries not subject to the First Amendment also enjoy freedom of speech.

The suggestion that black masked thugs attacking speakers is not a threat to free speech is frankly appalling.

I have always said, tho, the greatest threat to the freedom of expression comes from the left.
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