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Tags hurricanes , natural disasters , Puerto Rico incidents

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Old 29th September 2017, 04:42 AM   #81
LTC8K6
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
For 10 days.

So by the time they get harbor operations up to speed and enough infrastructure restored to make moving goods around the island anything close to routine it will have long expired.

And the residents will be back to paying extravagant prices for the goods they need.

Only this time they will be needing them to rebuild.

As empty gestures go this one was a chart topper.
That's what they told us earlier. It didn't make sense to waive it yet, as the ports weren't ready for the traffic.

Hopefully they weren't talked into issuing a waiver too early.

I'm sure it will be extended on request, though.
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Old 30th September 2017, 02:43 AM   #82
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People like Trump are pretty quick to bail out corrupt bankers and hedge fund managers when they have debts, and his pals on Wall Street, and to cut taxes for the extremely rich, but not to provide a roof over the heads for the people in Puerto Rico, or Dominica, or repair their dams.
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Old 30th September 2017, 03:26 AM   #83
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They also need the resources to move the supplies that are already in the port: trucks, drivers, fuel and safe infrastructure.
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Old 30th September 2017, 05:14 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Arisia View Post
They also need the resources to move the supplies that are already in the port: trucks, drivers, fuel and safe infrastructure.
You can't keep 3.4 million people alive sending bottled water 1000 miles over the sea. They need to get potable water flowing from water treatment centers through pipes into homes. They need grocery stores that work, and stoves in homes to cook the food. The electricity has to get back on.

Hopefully the new general in town will be able to move the resources he needs to make that happen.
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Old 30th September 2017, 05:15 AM   #85
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https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/913873034750119937
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Old 30th September 2017, 05:39 AM   #86
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The DOE issues daily reports on the electricity situation. As of yesterday, 95% of customers were without power. That's actually good news, because as of the day before yesterday, 100% were without power. Having a base of operations with regular power will make further operations more efficient.

https://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/...%2C%202017.pdf
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Old 30th September 2017, 05:40 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
And Donald Trump has now taken to Twitter to criticize her.
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Old 30th September 2017, 05:58 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
You can't keep 3.4 million people alive sending bottled water 1000 miles over the sea. They need to get potable water flowing from water treatment centers through pipes into homes. They need grocery stores that work, and stoves in homes to cook the food. The electricity has to get back on.

Hopefully the new general in town will be able to move the resources he needs to make that happen.
The reporting might not keep him in the job long. General overseeing Puerto Rico response breaks with Trump: We don’t have enough troops or equipment.

Quote:
The Defense Department has not sent enough troops and vehicles to hurricane-ravaged Puerto Rico but will soon send more, according to the three-star general newly in charge of coordinating the military response.

Army Lt. Gen. Jeff Buchanan said*Friday*morning*that the Pentagon has 10,000 people helping with the response after Hurricanes Irma and Maria ripped through Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands earlier this month.

“We're certainly bringing in more [troops]," Buchanan said on CNN’s*“New Day.”

"For example, on the military side, we're bringing in both Air Force, Navy, and Army medical capabilities in addition to aircraft, more helicopters. ... [But] it's not enough, and we're bringing more in.”
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Old 30th September 2017, 07:14 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
People like Trump are pretty quick to bail out corrupt bankers and hedge fund managers when they have debts, and his pals on Wall Street, and to cut taxes for the extremely rich, but not to provide a roof over the heads for the people in Puerto Rico, or Dominica, or repair their dams.
Anyone who thinks conservatives/republickers give a **** about them and who is not wealthy is an idiot. Anyone in that group who is a conservative/republicker anyway is a tool and an idiot.
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Old 30th September 2017, 07:56 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
And Donald Trump has now taken to Twitter to criticize her.
So "modern presidential"
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Old 30th September 2017, 08:02 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
And Donald Trump has now taken to Twitter to criticize her.
I think Nate Silver has nailed why this keeps happening:
Alternative hypothesis: Trump has poor impulse control & is easily triggered, especially when being challenged (esp. by women & minorities).
She nails both categories hence his response to call Puerto Ricans lazy and ungrateful.
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Old 30th September 2017, 08:30 AM   #92
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Now her message is on a t-shirt she is wearing.

http://thehill.com/sites/default/fil...hot_092917.jpg
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Old 30th September 2017, 08:34 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Well he would, wouldn't he ? When you praise your own actions then it's hardly a ringing endorsement.

OTOH I understand that the governor of Puerto Rico has given guarded praise to the White House response - IMO that carries more weight.
Or it shows that he's learned how to deal with the administration. Criticism and shame orifices conflict and intransigence. Praise produces results.

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Old 30th September 2017, 09:20 AM   #94
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BBC: Trump lashes out at San Juan mayor over Maria response

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41452995

Donald Trump has lashed out at Puerto Rico politicians over their criticism of US relief efforts on the island following Hurricane Maria.
In a series of tweets, Trump said that Puerto Rican officials showed "poor leadership ability" and "want everything to be done for them".
Trump suggested the mayor had been told "to be nasty to Trump" by his Democratic opposition.
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Old 30th September 2017, 10:31 AM   #95
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Even with millions of people's health, safety, security, and future at risk, Trump's ego proves by far most important of all to him.

The governor of Puerto Rico dares to say that there is still devastation all around her and that the self-congratualory rosy assessments made by some members of the Trump administration do not match the facts; that Puerto Rico still needs a lot of help. Trump somehow interprets this as the governor being "nasty" to him, him!, so she must be publicly crushed and her statements denied as if they were merely petty politics pushed by "the Democrats."

I am now waiting for Trump to somehow blame Hillary Clinton for the disaster in Puerto Rico and to remind people what a HUGE electoral victory he had in the 2016 election.

To the credit of many in the Federal government, including Congress and individuals within the Trump administration, it does seem that at long last there has been a mobilization of emergency services to help Puerto Rico. Hopefully this will continue given that much more aid is still required. But I agree with the governor- it is not yet a "good news" story, and to point that out is hardly being nasty to Trump or playing politics. Can't Trump see anything, even life and death issues, in any way but in relation to his ego and his divisive political view of the world?
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Old 30th September 2017, 10:45 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
The governor of Puerto Rico dares to say that there is still devastation all around her
That's the mayor of San Juan, not the governor of Puerto Rico.
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Old 30th September 2017, 10:51 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Or it shows that he's learned how to deal with the administration. Criticism and shame orifices conflict and intransigence. Praise produces results.

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Produces, for God's sake, not orifices.

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Old 30th September 2017, 11:01 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Produces, for God's sake, not orifices.
I don't know. There's a lot of criticism and shame associated with orifices.
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Old 30th September 2017, 11:07 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Time for PR, USVI, Marshall Islands and Guam to either become the 51st State or independent nations. If they really wanted to be treated like Americans they should be required to act like full Americans.
Troll much?
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Not in recent years. The last referendum had a vastly overwhelming majority of the votes for statehood.
So why aren't they a state? (It's been a few years since I was following the internal PR politics, but if that much positive response to this very old issue is what's coming along now, what's the obstacle to becoming number 51? FFS, they are closer to CONUS than Alaska or Hawaii.)
Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
why does it take three full days from the time when the ship is given her orders until she actually sails? I suspect it's because even though the ship's in dock she's receiving only minimal maintenance with a skeleton crew. So the navy has to call up crew, stock up on food, and perhaps even load fuel and fresh water. They may even have to bring some systems back on-line and check them out because they've been shut down for a while.
Yes.
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I expect that's correct; and it's not really the ship's crew that's the problem -- it's the medical staff. They probably have to come in from bases all over the place.
And reservists.
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Hopefully the new general in town will be able to move the resources he needs to make that happen.
He's asking for more assets. It's a big darned job.
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Or it shows that he's learned how to deal with the administration. Criticism and shame orifices conflict and intransigence. Praise produces results.
I'd say you broke the code.
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Old 30th September 2017, 11:30 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's the mayor of San Juan, not the governor of Puerto Rico.
Sorry! You are of course correct.

This is one of the things I find amazing about Trump- he will take the time and effort to publicly and angrily attack anyone who he perceives as having said anything negative about him. A relatively obscure mayor of a city, a has been actor, the parents of a dead soldier, a basketball player. The list goes on and on. I can only imagine Trump desperately combing through Internet sites at 2 AM looking for someone who had dared question anything about him or his policies so he can try to rip them a new one in his tweets. Alnd almost always not a rebuttal of the criticisms per se but instead a personal attack on the person advancing the criticisms or their motivation. It must represent an enormous effort and occupy a great deal of his time!

Perhaps Kelly can explain to Trump the concept of dignity and the value of not stooping to participating in petty battles of words that he should consider to be "beneath him."
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Old 30th September 2017, 11:37 AM   #101
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Drone footage from San Juan, Puerto Rico, after Hurricane Maria. A "ghost town covered in sewage water".
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Old 30th September 2017, 12:01 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
Troll much?
So why aren't they a state? (It's been a few years since I was following the internal PR politics, but if that much positive response to this very old issue is what's coming along now, what's the obstacle to becoming number 51? FFS, they are closer to CONUS than Alaska or Hawaii.)
There are lots of reasons that might contribute to them not being pushed for statehood, but the "overwhelming majority" that voted for statehood in the last election on the issue was due to the fact that the anti-statehood parties called for a boycott of the vote. Turnout was 23%, and about 97% of that was for statehood.
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Old 30th September 2017, 12:21 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
BBC: Trump lashes out at San Juan mayor over Maria response

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41452995

Donald Trump has lashed out at Puerto Rico politicians over their criticism of US relief efforts on the island following Hurricane Maria.
In a series of tweets, Trump said that Puerto Rican officials showed "poor leadership ability" and "want everything to be done for them".
Trump suggested the mayor had been told "to be nasty to Trump" by his Democratic opposition.
Even IF what he said was true, those tweets were so horribly inappropriate. It's as if he thinks of the worst response a petty leader could make and starts typing.

The people of Puerto Rico need empathy and reassurance to hang in there. He needs a real speech - to tell them civilian and military forces are making the best effort to restore their basic needs. That he understands they are frustrated and the people are suffering. He could say that the extended loss of basic infrastructure masked the unprecedented scale of relief efforts needed. That the eventual response is much much larger than anyone would expect or even know to ask for- even for a devastating hurricane. That all the red tape is cut to 'make it happen' however it can be done until every citizen of Puerto Rico is safe and secure. Then he can ask them for their cooperation and assistance, in whatever capacity the local citizens can help at this stage. He can end it by saying he will follow the progress closely, especially with the governor and local leaders concerns on the ground, and put the full force of the US Gov't to remedy any bottlenecks as they happen - and then Godspeed (or something like that without the 'god').

But he did not do that. He could not even fake empathy nor rise above his critics. Instead he pointed his little fingers and made personal tweet attacks in the middle of a humanitarian crisis. Unbelievable.
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Old 30th September 2017, 01:23 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Even IF what he said was true, those tweets were so horribly inappropriate. It's as if he thinks of the worst response a petty leader could make and starts typing.

The people of Puerto Rico need empathy and reassurance to hang in there. He needs a real speech - to tell them civilian and military forces are making the best effort to restore their basic needs. That he understands they are frustrated and the people are suffering. He could say that the extended loss of basic infrastructure masked the unprecedented scale of relief efforts needed. That the eventual response is much much larger than anyone would expect or even know to ask for- even for a devastating hurricane. That all the red tape is cut to 'make it happen' however it can be done until every citizen of Puerto Rico is safe and secure. Then he can ask them for their cooperation and assistance, in whatever capacity the local citizens can help at this stage. He can end it by saying he will follow the progress closely, especially with the governor and local leaders concerns on the ground, and put the full force of the US Gov't to remedy any bottlenecks as they happen - and then Godspeed (or something like that without the 'god').

But he did not do that. He could not even fake empathy nor rise above his critics. Instead he pointed his little fingers and made personal tweet attacks in the middle of a humanitarian crisis. Unbelievable.
Perfectly constructed speech! That is exactly what people need. We care. We know you need help and we are doing our best to get it to you. You will be helped. Things will be better.

It's not even that Trump has to figure this all out himself. There are many examples of appropriate speeches by other leaders in their responses to disasters. And saying the right words is the easy part! Bush was able to do that. Delivery the aid is the hard part.

We knew that Trump fails to provide the moral leadership expected of Presidents. Apparently he can not provide morale leadership either.
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Old 30th September 2017, 01:53 PM   #105
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She's waist deep in water (literally) helping as much as she can. Meanwhile the Arse in Chief is golfing, criticizing and tweeting.

She's a woman, and she criticised the orange skinned windbag.

How DARE she criticise the tiny penised one? I bet he was shaking with rage as he was typing with his tiny, and yet still pudgy, fingers..

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Old 30th September 2017, 02:11 PM   #106
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Old 30th September 2017, 02:15 PM   #107
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Curious how Fox was reporting this so I channel surfed over there. And while they had a pundit noting how hard the Mayor was working and how little Trump was doing besides golfing. But then they had two pundits noting things like somehow the Mayor accidentally had all those supplies in the background.

That's nonsense, of course she could have stood anywhere for the press conference. It's never been a secret the supplies are there but not getting distributed.
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Old 30th September 2017, 02:51 PM   #108
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This is trending in the wrong direction:
US Army says 55% of "customers" (1.87m people) on Puerto Rico have no drinking water, up from 44% (1.5m) in the past four days.
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Old 30th September 2017, 02:55 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
That's not good. although it's a bit tough to tell exactly what it mean. I would hope they mean drinkable running water, but it may be about access to some source of such water.

According to a FEMA conference today, 9 hospitals are back on the grid. The DOE report on electrical power had 95% of customers still without power, unchanged from Friday.
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Old 30th September 2017, 03:32 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Curious how Fox was reporting this so I channel surfed over there. And while they had a pundit noting how hard the Mayor was working and how little Trump was doing besides golfing. But then they had two pundits noting things like somehow the Mayor accidentally had all those supplies in the background.

That's nonsense, of course she could have stood anywhere for the press conference. It's never been a secret the supplies are there but not getting distributed.
Fox just can't imagine that reality might be more important than "the optics."
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Old 30th September 2017, 05:22 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Fox just can't imagine that reality might be more important than "the optics."
The day the Rupert Murdoch dies, I will do a Snoopy Happy Dance....
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Old 30th September 2017, 05:38 PM   #112
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I wish human beings could be as happy about anything as they are when someone from "the other side" is screwing up.
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Old 30th September 2017, 05:55 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I don't know. There's a lot of criticism and shame associated with orifices.
And trumpf is certainly an orifice.
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Old 30th September 2017, 05:59 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
She's waist deep in water (literally) helping as much as she can. Meanwhile the Arse in Chief is golfing, criticizing and tweeting.

She's a woman, and she criticised the orange skinned windbag.

How DARE she criticise the tiny penised one? I bet he was shaking with rage as he was typing with his tiny, and yet still pudgy, fingers..
And he is indeed an Arse!!! In fact a Complete Arse....a Whole Arse, if you will!!!!!!!
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Old 30th September 2017, 06:58 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
I wish human beings could be as happy about anything as they are when someone from "the other side" is screwing up.
Happy? Does anyone seem happy about this?
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Old 30th September 2017, 07:10 PM   #116
Giordano
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
I wish human beings could be as happy about anything as they are when someone from "the other side" is screwing up.
I don't know of anyone happy about the delayed responses to the Puerto Rico humanitarian crisis. Can't we be united in just this, the importance of helping fellow Americans who are in dire straights? I never hoped Trump would screw up and I will gladly praise him if he now gets things right. These are people's lives, not a political humor sketch.
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Old 30th September 2017, 07:32 PM   #117
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This whole thing about the truck drivers not showing up causing delays at the port really stuck in my brain as it just didn't make sense to be the main bottleneck. The dock workers and hospital workers showed up fine. Many of the roads were clear enough, but still the cargo sat there. No doubt trucks were damaged, but not 80% of them. Then I thought about how it would work without electricity or communication systems.

My theory:
The bottom line is that a modern supply chain doesn't function without electricity. It barely limps. There is just no way to order, move, receive, store, and sell efficiently without it. Further, if the big grocers and pharmacies do not have any cool storage at 40 degrees or less, then those containers won't be picked up. If it's 90 outside, how hot are those buildings right now without a/c? Food and medicine will stay where it is. No trucks will come. Same for the distributors. Everyone along the line needs power and the power requires a stable supply of diesel. The port has it, so that's where they remain. There is no 'normal' functioning area nearby to put it or pull from like Texas and Florida had. The workarounds are so limited. (I'm sure FEMA can work around it, but these thousands of containers are not FEMA)

They could patch up the communication with some effort, but without diesel to run generators for electricity, they aren't opening up for business and, therefore, no reason to send the trucks.
Having electricity, but no communication systems up, they would need to be 'cash only' which at this point may require armed guards for a large store. Even just giving it away may start a dangerous riot they aren't prepared to deal with. They need FEMA and military help for that.

So now you have all these businesses and hospitals requiring millions of gallons of diesel over an extended period, this sudden brand new demand, and not enough fuel trucks or drivers to bring it to them. They don't have the capacity for it.

FEMA and the military cannot provide for everyone on that island. Their best bet is to try to piece the system back in place ASAP and supplement the gap. Oh, and bring in their own trucks and drivers too.
What a mess!

Last edited by Sherkeu; 30th September 2017 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 30th September 2017, 07:40 PM   #118
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
The bottom line is that a modern supply chain doesn't function without electricity. It barely limps....
FEMA and the military cannot provide for everyone on that island. Their best bet is to try to piece the system back in place ASAP and supplement the gap. Oh, and bring in their own trucks and drivers too.
What a mess!
Exactly. If this were managed perfectly, it would be a terrible disaster. As it is, well, what's the next level up from terrible?

The thing about the administration response is that it is, as Tom Bossert said at Thursday's press conference "textbook". They're patting themselves on the back for rapidly moving large quantities of bottled water and such. The problem is that this is not a textbook situation. Thursday morning, i.e. last Thursday morning, the day after the hurricane, they should have appointed a general to take charge, and started getting heavy equipment into place to get at least a small portion of the grid up and running.

Bossert was asked why they didn't appoint General Buchanan earlier, and he responded that they didn't need him earlier. Yes, you did. You just didn't know it.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 30th September 2017 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 30th September 2017, 07:57 PM   #119
Noztradamus
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Now her message is on a t-shirt she is wearing.

http://thehill.com/sites/default/fil...hot_092917.jpg
Good to know the essential services like printing message t-shirts are restored.
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Old 30th September 2017, 08:18 PM   #120
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
Good to know the essential services like printing message t-shirts are restored.
If your job is to elicit help, I doubt silk screening a tee shirt is difficult. If you need an army unit to plow the roads open and trucking resources to distribute fuel, food and water, your can't do that by simply wishing it so.
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