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Tags hurricanes , natural disasters , Puerto Rico incidents

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Old 15th October 2017, 01:41 PM   #241
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Race has nothing to do with it. White people are perfectly capable of electing corrupt and incompetent governments as well.
Your attempt to sidetrack the issue of Trump's racism is duly noted.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And yes, Puerto Rico's government is corrupt and incompetent. You may object to me saying that all you want to, but it will remain true. And despite all the other excuses you make, this will also remain the heart of the problem.
You present no evidence and decline to reply to the two major issues that contributed to PR's debt, both decisions by a Congress PR has no representation in.

Name the politicians and tell us where is their money stashed?

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Tu quoque much?
No, I'm asking for the evidence you have yet to provide, which politicians, have they gotten rich? Are they getting kickbacks?

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's a good question. But you should be asking that of the people who borrowed it. *I* certainly didn't spend any of it.
You imagine corruption, it fits your world view. But again, you have no evidence.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Well, yes. Residents of Puerto Rico don't have to pay federal income tax. That's a pretty damned big tax break.
Relevance?

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
But that doesn't deprive Puerto Rico's government of any funds.
Did you not even read my post? This suggests you didn't. Maybe if you are going to discuss the issue of PR's debt, you should.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
As for the change in the law, I find it amusing that you're upset that Congress STOPPED giving big pharma a special tax break unavailable elsewhere. It's almost like incentives matter, and lower taxes can stimulate an economy. Who would have thunk?
Aaaannd, we're back to you trying to change the subject.
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Old 15th October 2017, 10:48 PM   #242
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So I had this story about mercenaries showing up in Puerto Rico in my news list.
Is there any supporting evidence of this or is it just clickbait?

https://boingboing.net/2017/10/15/katrina-rerun.html

Note: I have never heard of boingboing. I assume it's one of those things that get bumped up by clueless algorithms.
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Old 16th October 2017, 03:10 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
So I had this story about mercenaries showing up in Puerto Rico in my news list.
Is there any supporting evidence of this or is it just clickbait?

https://boingboing.net/2017/10/15/katrina-rerun.html

Note: I have never heard of boingboing. I assume it's one of those things that get bumped up by clueless algorithms.

Boing Boing has been around for quite a long time. Maybe best described as a sort of group blog it can act as a concentrator of a lot of varied and disparate topics and interests.

The articles generally have attributions and links to sources at their end (as does the one you have linked to). You can judge the probity of those primary sources for yourself.

I tend to use Twitter (not very much, I confess) as a news aggregator of sorts, and follow Boing Boing there for that purpose. It often produces some interesting pieces.

A definitely unabashed liberal lean to it, though, if you are bothered by that sort of thing.
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Old 17th October 2017, 04:28 AM   #244
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And the really forgotten hurricane victims.
St. John, an island in the US Virgin Islands, has been without power since September 6. Please keep loving & supporting us. Please retweet.
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Old 17th October 2017, 05:23 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Forgotten indeed - hadn't heard anything about it in the UK media, though someone in this thread posted something about the Danes helping in the USVI.
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Old 17th October 2017, 06:58 AM   #246
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This is unconscionable.

Quote:
But nobody knows how to get him there. And Sammy is not alone.

Clinics that are overwhelmed with patients and staff say they don't even know how to begin sending cases to the ship. Doctors say there's a rumor that patients have to be admitted to a central hospital before they can be transferred to the Comfort. Only 33 of the 250 beds on the Comfort -- 13% -- are being used, nearly two weeks after the ship arrived.

The hospital ship was deployed as part of the federal response to the storm and its aftermath that has left 3.4 million Americans facing power and communications outages, water and food shortages and at risk for worsening health conditions.
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Old 17th October 2017, 07:37 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
And a very good illustration of what the problem is.

We sent a hospital ship. Very good. Commendable. Costs money. People on it work very hard. Everyone gets good marks for doing a great job because everyone is working hard to do their part.

However, the procedures and policies aren't updated. There's no coordination. It's not getting used effectively.

I read today about efforts to get the grid back on line, and how hard it is because the electrical utility has no money, and the private contractor finally got a contract from the Corps of Engineers, which was tasked by FEMA, but the private contractor doesn't have the transport to move in the equipment, and they won't send their people until they have assurance that their people have housing when they get there.

Meanwhile, military helicopters are delivering bottled water.

These coordination difficulties were quite predictable on the morning after the hurricane passed by. I honestly don't want to just bash one particular politician, but, in all seriousness, there really is only one person who could have made sure to cut through the red tape and actually make this sort of inter-agency cooperation happen. He didn't do it, and he still isn't doing it.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 17th October 2017 at 08:27 AM.
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Old 17th October 2017, 08:02 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
So I had this story about mercenaries showing up in Puerto Rico in my news list.
Is there any supporting evidence of this or is it just clickbait?

https://boingboing.net/2017/10/15/katrina-rerun.html

Note: I have never heard of boingboing. I assume it's one of those things that get bumped up by clueless algorithms.
Boing Boing is a reliable site.

Daily Kos and The NY Post are carrying the story as well. My guess is you'll see it on CNN and MSNBC within a day or so.

These parts from the BoingBoing article are well established:
Quote:
After Hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans, Erik Prince's Blackwater mercenaries flooded the city again, turning it into an "armed camp", after Brigadier Gen. Gary Jones, commander of the Louisiana National Guard’s Joint Task Force announced "This place is going to look like Little Somalia. We’re going to go out and take this city back. This will be a combat operation to get this city under control."...

Security firm Academi —known by its former name, Blackwater, which won $21 million contract with the U.S. government to provide security services during the Iraq war in 2003...

This company, described as an army of mercenaries by investigative journalist Jeremy Scahill, has changed its name three times since its founding in 1997 by a former Navy Seal Officer (United States Marine, Air and Land Teams.
Blackwater was part of the problem in Iraq when a group of them opened fire on innocent people stuck in traffic after the mercenaries falsely believed they were being fired on. They weren't. They killed 17 civilians, IIRC. Iraq wanted to prosecute them. Low and behold it turned out they didn't fall under US military law, and GW refused to let Iraq prosecute so instead they were evicted from the country. No worries though, buddy Bush sent them to New Orleans where they acted similarly reckless with their automatic weapons.

As for unmarked uniforms, that is common. I saw (and talked to) armed men in army gear with no ID showing at an Iraq war protest rally here in Seattle a few years back. They refused to say who they were but they were clearly operating along with the police. It's very disconcerting.

Worth remembering, Erik Prince was suspiciously in the Seychelles talking to Russians about that back door communication channel with Trump. Prince denied that was the reason he was there.

Prince is Betsy DeVos' brother. They are all Evangelicals and that was part of their connection to GW. They are also backed by the Mercers, another billionaire family paying for government influence. The Mercers are even more as much like John Birchers as the Kochs are.

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Old 17th October 2017, 08:50 AM   #249
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Prince is also going to run for Senate as one of Bannon's cohort, if the rumors are true.
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Old 17th October 2017, 09:38 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Forgotten indeed - hadn't heard anything about it in the UK media, though someone in this thread posted something about the Danes helping in the USVI.
Post 201
Danish team supports hurricane recovery. However, I don't know about St. John.
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Old 17th October 2017, 11:47 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
The Vegas gunman seems to have pushed Puerto Rico out of the headlines. And of course how can the American people be expected to pay attention to a humanitarian situation when there's an ongoing national anthem crisis?
The fact that it is pushed out of the headlines should have very little to do with the actual relief and restoration efforts going on in Puerto Rico.


Quote:
The people on the ground are, by all accounts, working very hard, but either there aren't enough of them or they aren't being used effectively. The outcomes just aren't acceptable.
Or maybe the destruction was so great that these outcomes are good for this stage.
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Old 17th October 2017, 11:52 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Nor is it the fault of the people who currently don't have clean water.


Well, to be fair, it is a democracy, so there is a certain level of blame that belongs to the citizens, but that's kind of a long term issue, as opposed to a rather more short term problem which is that 40% of the people still don't have access to a drinking water supply that we in the 21st century would consider a minimum level for civilization.

I just can't see how anyone can look at the outcome in Puerto Rico and give the US government a passing grade on the response.
As of now I don't think we really have enough information to pass judgement on the response. Do you know how long it may take to repair the infrastructure for the water supply? I don't.
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Old 17th October 2017, 12:07 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
As of now I don't think we really have enough information to pass judgement on the response. Do you know how long it may take to repair the infrastructure for the water supply? I don't.
"A hurricane hit 3 million of our citizens almost a month ago and they are still without basic necessities."

What more information do you need exactly?

"Buuut it's hard!"

Bull. This is America. We put a man on the moon. During WWII single factories making planes and boats had the output of medium sized countries. We don't get the play the "Not sure if we can pull this off or not card."

Getting food, water, emergency supplies, medical care, and basic utilities to 3 million of our citizens isn't something we should accept a loss on.
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Old 17th October 2017, 12:22 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
As of now I don't think we really have enough information to pass judgement on the response.
Unfortunately we do know. I can't blame FEMA. The curent FEMA director, Craig Fugate, has had experience with a number of hurricanes and is supported by both parties. He started as a firefighter and paramedic and has 30 years experience in emergency management. He seems to know what he is doing.

The blame lies squarely with Trump.
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Old 17th October 2017, 02:20 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
"A hurricane hit 3 million of our citizens almost a month ago and they are still without basic necessities."

What more information do you need exactly?

"Buuut it's hard!"

Bull. This is America. We put a man on the moon. During WWII single factories making planes and boats had the output of medium sized countries. We don't get the play the "Not sure if we can pull this off or not card."

Getting food, water, emergency supplies, medical care, and basic utilities to 3 million of our citizens isn't something we should accept a loss on.
This.

I am absolutely confident that the US military has the capability to string a wire 35 miles over a mountain in less than a week. I am absolutely confident that we have the capability to transport 200 utility trucks, and their crews, to an island in less than a week, and have Spartan, but serviceable, accommodations waiting for them when they get there. What do you think? If you pay these guys overtime pay, they won't sleep on cots in a GP large for three weeks?

And it would be totally unreasonable to expect to get to every mountain village in a month, so maybe some people will have to be relocated temporarily, but 40% of the population still doesn't have drinking water. Call it an argument from incredulity if you wish, but I simply don't believe that it was impossible to do better.

Meaning no insult to FEMA, but they aren't equipped to do the job, because that isn't what they do for a living. This situation needed an unconventional response. It got a very large conventional response.
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Old 17th October 2017, 06:53 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
<snip>

I read today about efforts to get the grid back on line, and how hard it is because the electrical utility has no money, and the private contractor finally got a contract from the Corps of Engineers, which was tasked by FEMA, but the private contractor doesn't have the transport to move in the equipment, and they won't send their people until they have assurance that their people have housing when they get there.

<snip>

Latest update via Mrs. qg's home healthcare PT with a son in PR.

Still no electricity at their B&B ... three miles north of San Juan.

What makes your post a bit poignant is that they are managing to keep the B&B operating at least a little bit via generator, which her son has to sleep next to so that he can keep it running all night for fans, etc. for the guests they still have.

He'd probably love to house some of those workers. Might even give them a bargain on rates.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 08:22 AM   #257
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Things are still bad in Puerto Rico. This from a couple of days ago:

Quote:
Four weeks after Hurricane Maria, packing winds of up to 155 miles an hour, knocked out power to the entire island, 80 percent of Puerto Rico still does not have electricity. Some residents have not had power for 45 days — since Hurricane Irma brushed by after Labor Day.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/u...ity-power.html

Why isn't the Trump Administration being criticised continually about this - and why are they allowed to give themselves A+ and 10/10 grades ?
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Old 22nd October 2017, 12:26 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Things are still bad in Puerto Rico. This from a couple of days ago:



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/u...ity-power.html

Why isn't the Trump Administration being criticised continually about this - and why are they allowed to give themselves A+ and 10/10 grades ?

If trump was a member here, he'd be getting carded for Rule 11.

That's why.

ETA: Makes more sense in this thread than one about WWII
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Old 23rd October 2017, 05:12 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
"A hurricane hit 3 million of our citizens almost a month ago and they are still without basic necessities."

What more information do you need exactly?
They are dark skinned and there to be exploited not helped.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 05:59 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
They are dark skinned and there to be exploited not helped.

And they have funny, Hispanic sounding names. Must be illegals.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 06:28 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by barehl View Post
Unfortunately we do know. I can't blame FEMA. The curent FEMA director, Craig Fugate, has had experience with a number of hurricanes and is supported by both parties. He started as a firefighter and paramedic and has 30 years experience in emergency management. He seems to know what he is doing.

The blame lies squarely with Trump.
Craig Fugate was an Obama appointee who left with the rest of that administration. FEMA has had two administrators since then. The current guy is Brock Long.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brock_Long
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...agement_Agency

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Old 23rd October 2017, 07:21 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
The DOE issues daily reports on the electricity situation. As of yesterday, 95% of customers were without power. That's actually good news, because as of the day before yesterday, 100% were without power. Having a base of operations with regular power will make further operations more efficient.

https://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/...%2C%202017.pdf
Interestingly, from the Energy.gov website:

Quote:
Beginning Monday, October 23, DOE is planning to issue situation reports on the response and recovery efforts in Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands only on Mondays and Thursdays. DOE will continue to provide daily updates through FEMA.
From the latest report on the DOE site, dated 20 October:

Quote:
Puerto Rico: Approximately 18.5% of normal peak load has been restored and 23 of 78 municipalities are partially energized or have energized facilities
More than 80% of people are without power. That doesn't sound like an A+ or 10/10 performance to me.

I cannot seem to be able to find anything out from the FEMA site.

https://www.fema.gov/hurricane-maria

Is that quite normal or is FEMA trying to avoid information which conflicts with the Adminstration narrative being easy to access ?
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Old 23rd October 2017, 03:32 PM   #263
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General question for the thread: President Trump has been heavily criticized for the poor US response to the hurricane. First, what could he, as the President, have done prior to the event to ensure a better response. And following on from that, what actions could he have take immediately after to ensure a decent response?

To make it clear, I'm talking about what any President of the United States could do to ensure a timely and comprehensive response to the Puerio Rico disaster, given the fact the island is not attached to the mainland. That means there's no road or rail shipping, and because the infrastructure was heavily damaged, getting supplies and people to where they're needed is difficult.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 04:16 PM   #264
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In Trump's case, it's not so much about what he could have done or should have done. It's more about what he shouldn't have done: Claiming it was the best response ever and blaming the victims.

It would have been a difficult task for anyone. Trump's incompetence has made it worse.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 06:05 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
General question for the thread: President Trump has been heavily criticized for the poor US response to the hurricane. First, what could he, as the President, have done prior to the event to ensure a better response. And following on from that, what actions could he have take immediately after to ensure a decent response?

To make it clear, I'm talking about what any President of the United States could do to ensure a timely and comprehensive response to the Puerio Rico disaster, given the fact the island is not attached to the mainland. That means there's no road or rail shipping, and because the infrastructure was heavily damaged, getting supplies and people to where they're needed is difficult.
Prior to the hurricane, I don't see any issues.

As of the morning after the hurricane, it should have been clear that this was not an ordinary disaster. FEMA is not equipped to do what needed (and still needs) to be done. That isn't their job. The military should have put in charge of the task on Thursday morning. Instead, General Buchanan was not appointed until the following Thursday. When asked why it took so long to make that appointment, a White House spokesman replied that they didn't need him eight days ago. The spokesman was wrong, and obviously so.

The last part of your question emphasizes the difficulty of getting supplies to where they are needed due to being on an island. That is exactly correct, which is why the emphasis from the beginning should have been on rebuilding rather than resupplying. They should have been shipping bulldozers instead of bottled water. You can't feed three and a half million people by helicopter shipments. You need a functioning infrastructure.

It was clear from day one that people in remote villages simply could not be maintained. For those people, you save their lives, and come up with a plan to get them into urban shelters with running water, and if you can do it, some sort of security to keep their homes from being looted until they can return.

Obviously, I don't know exact details of what ought to be done, and no one does. Somebody ought to, though. The guy in charge should have been given goals to get power into a certain number of cities, and get one or more of those pharmaceutical factories on line. Instead, roads and ports are clogged with small scale diesel deliveries to keep hundreds of thousands of small scale generators going. That is no way to run a modern civilization.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 08:56 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Prior to the hurricane, I don't see any issues.

As of the morning after the hurricane, it should have been clear that this was not an ordinary disaster. FEMA is not equipped to do what needed (and still needs) to be done. That isn't their job. The military should have put in charge of the task on Thursday morning. Instead, General Buchanan was not appointed until the following Thursday. When asked why it took so long to make that appointment, a White House spokesman replied that they didn't need him eight days ago. The spokesman was wrong, and obviously so.

The last part of your question emphasizes the difficulty of getting supplies to where they are needed due to being on an island. That is exactly correct, which is why the emphasis from the beginning should have been on rebuilding rather than resupplying. They should have been shipping bulldozers instead of bottled water. You can't feed three and a half million people by helicopter shipments. You need a functioning infrastructure.

It was clear from day one that people in remote villages simply could not be maintained. For those people, you save their lives, and come up with a plan to get them into urban shelters with running water, and if you can do it, some sort of security to keep their homes from being looted until they can return.

Obviously, I don't know exact details of what ought to be done, and no one does. Somebody ought to, though. The guy in charge should have been given goals to get power into a certain number of cities, and get one or more of those pharmaceutical factories on line. Instead, roads and ports are clogged with small scale diesel deliveries to keep hundreds of thousands of small scale generators going. That is no way to run a modern civilization.

Latest update from Puerto Rico, three miles north of San Juan. (Son of Mrs. qg's physical therapist.)

Still no power. They are being told "maybe February".

Oddly enough, they can get stuff shipped to them from friends in the States. They are expecting a new generator.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 09:58 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
General question for the thread: President Trump has been heavily criticized for the poor US response to the hurricane. First, what could he, as the President, have done prior to the event to ensure a better response. And following on from that, what actions could he have take immediately after to ensure a decent response?

To make it clear, I'm talking about what any President of the United States could do to ensure a timely and comprehensive response to the Puerio Rico disaster, given the fact the island is not attached to the mainland. That means there's no road or rail shipping, and because the infrastructure was heavily damaged, getting supplies and people to where they're needed is difficult.
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
In Trump's case, it's not so much about what he could have done or should have done. It's more about what he shouldn't have done: Claiming it was the best response ever and blaming the victims.

It would have been a difficult task for anyone. Trump's incompetence has made it worse.
IMO Trebuchet has pretty much nailed it. I'm not close enough to the situation in Puerto Rico and I have no relevant experience in recovering from a hurricane but for me the biggest issues regarding the Trump Administration's response are:
  • The initial complacency that a week and a half elapse before the army were fully engaged
  • The President's need to give himself an A+ or 10/10 grade in the face of the facts
  • The President's lack of empathy with those American citizens who are suffering without electricity and/or water. Blaming the victims and a quick visit to the lease affected area before declaring everything is fine is not the way to go IMO
  • Seemingly to be doing sweet FA a month later while American citizens are still suffering - at least mention it once in a while (and not just that you've done an A+ job)

I'm sure that there are many, many things that could be done differently. Meadmaker's point about addressing infrastructure issues rather than attempting to slap a Band-Aid on sounds reasonable, the fact that the hospital ship that was dispatched to the island was largely empty 2 weeks after its arrival because local doctors didn't know how to get patients assigned to it is another.

For me the biggest failing is the government's seemingly intentional efforts to keep anything to do with Puerto Rico out of the media. The Bush Administration IMO did a poor job on Katrina but at least people were aware of what a poor job was being done. A couple of million American citizens will be without power and/or water for six months or even a year. That should be headline news but instead everyone is too enthralled by the latest nonsense from President Trump and his coterie, whether it's kneeling NFL footballers, Hillary or picking fights with grieving war widows.
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Old 25th October 2017, 03:51 AM   #268
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It turns out that the devastation in Puerto Rico is starting to affect us. It turns out that they used to manufacture a whole lot of drugs there, and we are starting to notice the effect.

http://www.wral.com/hurricane-damage...tals/17045058/
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Old 25th October 2017, 05:13 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
A week later:
As of tonight, the U.S. Naval Ship “Comfort” has:
*31 registered patients onboard *85% of the beds are empty
*169 beds are available
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Old 25th October 2017, 05:19 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
It turns out that the devastation in Puerto Rico is starting to affect us. It turns out that they used to manufacture a whole lot of drugs there, and we are starting to notice the effect.

http://www.wral.com/hurricane-damage...tals/17045058/
Ouch.
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Old 25th October 2017, 06:31 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
This is exactly the kind of thing that comes from poor organisation and management, the kinds of things entirely within the control of Senior administration officials.

I guess this is modern A+ performance
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Old 25th October 2017, 08:32 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
This is exactly the kind of thing that comes from poor organisation and management, the kinds of things entirely within the control of Senior administration officials.

I guess this is modern A+ performance Art
FIFY

suddenly it makes sense
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Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 25th October 2017, 09:05 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
FIFY

suddenly it makes sense


And I would find it funny if it wasn't quite so serious.

The US President tells whopping great lies - not being economical with the truth or cherry-picking favourable parts of a wider story or spinning a story - and whilst the "reputable" press attempt to report on it, the sheer volume of lies seems to have stunned his opposition into silence and his supporters believe whatever rubbish they're told.

I'd suspect that if you asked a cross section of the US electorate, a large section, possibly even the majority, would say that Puerto Rico is all sorted out and that the President and his Administration have done a great job. This is because the story seems to have disappeared from the news and because the President and all around him have said what a great job he has done.

Lying is nothing new, everyone (IMO especially politicians) do it, but President Trump seems to do it on an industrial scale, the lies are often so easily proven and yet he continues to enjoy the trust and support of almost half the electorate. I simply do not understand how this is possible and how a majority of white people not only says that President Trump is doing a great job but also that the GOP should become more like him
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Old 25th October 2017, 09:08 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Lying is nothing new, everyone (IMO especially politicians) do it, but President Trump seems to do it on an industrial scale
I wonder if he employs illegal foreign cells, as he seems to have so few of his own, to come up with these lies.
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Old 25th October 2017, 09:40 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I wonder if he employs illegal foreign cells, as he seems to have so few of his own, to come up with these lies.
That would require thought and preparation, two words I don't associate with President Trump.
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Old 25th October 2017, 09:43 AM   #276
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Make cerebrum great gain!
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Old 25th October 2017, 11:38 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
"A hurricane hit 3 million of our citizens almost a month ago and they are still without basic necessities."

What more information do you need exactly?

"Buuut it's hard!"

Bull. This is America. We put a man on the moon. During WWII single factories making planes and boats had the output of medium sized countries. We don't get the play the "Not sure if we can pull this off or not card."

Getting food, water, emergency supplies, medical care, and basic utilities to 3 million of our citizens isn't something we should accept a loss on.
This.

I don't personally know what resources are required, but I do know the United States government has experts on the payroll who do know. This isn't anything the Army Corps of Engineers can't handle, it only takes the political will to get them funded and turn them loose.
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Old 25th October 2017, 11:42 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
This.

I don't personally know what resources are required, but I do know the United States government has experts on the payroll who do know. This isn't anything the Army Corps of Engineers can't handle, it only takes the political will to get them funded and turn them loose.
Maybe they should outsource it to China, like everything else.
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Old 25th October 2017, 01:27 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Maybe they should outsource it to China, like everything else.
Not Russia?
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Old 25th October 2017, 01:41 PM   #280
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If Halliburton had put in a bid, maybe we could have gotten something done . . .
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