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Tags hurricanes , natural disasters , Puerto Rico incidents

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Old 25th October 2017, 04:42 PM   #281
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Well, Halliburton did not bid, but Zinke's friends company Whitefish got the job.

Here's a glimpse of the job so far.....

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/10/ene...f4qjmk.twitter

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Old 25th October 2017, 08:10 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by snoop_doxie View Post
Well, Halliburton did not bid, but Zinke's friends company Whitefish got the job.

Here's a glimpse of the job so far.....

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/10/ene...f4qjmk.twitter


This is going to be POTUS level ineptitude.

The reason the standard is the power companies doing a shared attack on the problem is... manpower.
As I understand it, with Texas ad Florida, or any other hurricane, within a few days, they plonk 10 or 15 THOUSAND workers on the ground, with heavy equipment.

White fish is bragging they've got 300 people in PR.

The tail of the prior storm's rains were still falling in Houston as some 400 of those large tree trimmer rigs were caravaning into the county. PR's roads are still largely uncleared... did Whitefish plan for that?
Can they accomplish their contracted task in those conditions?

People will continue to get sick because of the delays, and some of them will die. The infrastructure situation should have been, literally... attacked by concerted military construction forces.
People out... earthmovers in. We'll try to have you back home by Christmas.

It should not be handled gently, and be allowed to drag out for 14 months.
And Whitefish doesn't have the logistical experience to play a leading role in that.


I wonder... did we learn exactly nothing from Katrina?
Or did we learn, depending on the nature of the victims, exactly what can be gotten away with?
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Old 25th October 2017, 10:09 PM   #283
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Elon Musk successfully bringing his solar tech to PR and restoring power to a childrens' hospital:

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...m_term=nprnews
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Old 26th October 2017, 12:57 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Elon Musk successfully bringing his solar tech to PR and restoring power to a childrens' hospital:

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...m_term=nprnews

Interesting contrast to the Zinke/Whitefish business model.

Trump administration draining the swamp.
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Old 26th October 2017, 03:34 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
This.

I don't personally know what resources are required, but I do know the United States government has experts on the payroll who do know. This isn't anything the Army Corps of Engineers can't handle, it only takes the political will to get them funded and turn them loose.
But that makes it harder skim off of. That would be counter to everything this administration and the republican party is about.

And do they still maintain that kind of size or has that been outsourced like so much else to independent contractors again to make skimming money easier? Where is Haliburton when we need them?
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Old 26th October 2017, 06:51 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Trump administration draining the swamp.
Eh, they seem more interested in swamping the drain.
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Old 26th October 2017, 07:04 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
This.

I don't personally know what resources are required, but I do know the United States government has experts on the payroll who do know. This isn't anything the Army Corps of Engineers can't handle, it only takes the political will to get them funded and turn them loose.
"Who do know" hell. There's people in "the business" who live for this kind of thing.

You ever actually talk to a Army Corp of Engineers or Navy Seabee service member? An entire island that needs an infrastructure done quick? This is their "I've been training my whole life for this" moment. They plan for this like Youtube gun-nuts train for the zombie apocalypse.
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Old 26th October 2017, 07:39 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Interesting contrast to the Zinke/Whitefish business model.

Trump administration draining the swamp.
Musk also offers this solar/battery system as a donation, with an option to compensate and make permanent later. Looks like the grid was installed on a parking lot, so they will probably need to relocate anyway.

Why is it that people like Musk and Pit Bull can quickly figure out how to solve immediate problems? The Comfort sits in open water with empty beds- can no one figure out how to get a helicopter there and Medivac patients on board? She has a landing pad.
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Old 26th October 2017, 07:50 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
"Who do know" hell. There's people in "the business" who live for this kind of thing.

You ever actually talk to a Army Corp of Engineers or Navy Seabee service member? An entire island that needs an infrastructure done quick? This is their "I've been training my whole life for this" moment. They plan for this like Youtube gun-nuts train for the zombie apocalypse.
Exactly. This kind of thing is really hard to do, but fortunately, we have people who plan for and train to do really hard things, and they are adaptable enough that even though they weren't trained for this exact scenario, they can wing it, very well.

Even though no one would have been strafing them this time, I'll bet they could have managed it.
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Old 26th October 2017, 07:52 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Musk also offers this solar/battery system as a donation, with an option to compensate and make permanent later. Looks like the grid was installed on a parking lot, so they will probably need to relocate anyway.

Why is it that people like Musk and Pit Bull can quickly figure out how to solve immediate problems? The Comfort sits in open water with empty beds- can no one figure out how to get a helicopter there and Medivac patients on board? She has a landing pad.
My understanding is that the issue is that doctors in Puerto Rico are not sure what process needs to be followed in order to get patients on board the Comfort rather than there being no way of physically transporting them there.

Perhaps the questions over Whitefish (whether or not there actually is any impropriety) will get Puerto Rico back in the headline and get the Trump Administration to pull their collective fingers out.
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Old 26th October 2017, 08:11 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
My understanding is that the issue is that doctors in Puerto Rico are not sure what process needs to be followed in order to get patients on board the Comfort rather than there being no way of physically transporting them there.

Perhaps the questions over Whitefish (whether or not there actually is any impropriety) will get Puerto Rico back in the headline and get the Trump Administration to pull their collective fingers out.
I am very confident that a trained Medivac crew, military or civilian, could resolve that in seconds.

And yes, as the death toll continues to rise due to contaminated water and other causes, let's hope that the President's feet are held to the fire and he steps up, whether through humiliation, public outcry, or conscience.
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Old 26th October 2017, 08:21 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I am very confident that a trained Medivac crew, military or civilian, could resolve that in seconds.
Maybe

Quote:
FEMA told CNN.com that the Comfort is being used as a last resort at the end of a long line of steps that must be taken first with patients. They must first go to a local medical facility, then to the medical coordinating center in San Juan. From there, they might be sent to Humacao, where the Army's Combat Support Hospital is located. After that, a patient could be sent to the Comfort.
https://weather.com/news/news/2017-1...a-usns-comfort
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Old 26th October 2017, 08:24 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
And yes, as the death toll continues to rise due to contaminated water and other causes, let's hope that the President's feet are held to the fire and he steps up, whether through humiliation, public outcry, or conscience.
So do I, but I fear that his self-assessment of A+ performance protects him from humiliation, public outcry will simply be dismissed as #Fakenews and I have yet to see any evidence of a Presidential conscience.
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Old 26th October 2017, 08:31 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
...I have yet to see any evidence of a Presidential conscience.
That was dropped for budgetary reasons.
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Old 26th October 2017, 09:12 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
...I have yet to see any evidence of a Presidential conscience.
That was dropped for budgetary reasons.

I thought it was because he had people for that, and they all got fired.

(Or quit, mebbe. Can you imagine having the job of being Trump's conscience?)
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Old 26th October 2017, 09:16 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I thought it was because he had people for that, and they all got fired.

(Or quit, mebbe. Can you imagine having the job of being Trump's conscience?)
You ever see those commercials for animal shelters, where they show you the picture of the puppy, with a leg missing and half its fur gone, chained (with a short chain) to a pole next to a tiny cardboard box in a chicken wire enclosure, with snow on the ground, barely able to lift its head to look at you sorrowfully?

That's what I imagine the job would be like.

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Old 26th October 2017, 09:25 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
This is exactly the kind of bureaucratic cock-up that results in empty beds at an emergency hospital. Freaking infuriating.

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
So do I, but I fear that his self-assessment of A+ performance protects him from humiliation, public outcry will simply be dismissed as #Fakenews and I have yet to see any evidence of a Presidential conscience.
Color me naive, but I am still holding out for the President to find his mind and heart. Nowhere to go but up, right?
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Old 26th October 2017, 09:27 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Color me naive, but I am still holding out for the President to find his mind and heart.
You're adorable.
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Old 26th October 2017, 09:31 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
...
Why is it that people like Musk and Pit Bull can quickly figure out how to solve immediate problems? The Comfort sits in open water with empty beds- can no one figure out how to get a helicopter there and Medivac patients on board? She has a landing pad.
Just a thought but maybe like Trump sabotaging the ACA then claiming the ACA failed, this is a means of sabotaging government intervention with the idea one needs private free market intervention.

Trump may be interested in looking like he's managing PR well. But he's also just going to blame others when PR's recovery looks bad. Cue crony capitalism.
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Old 26th October 2017, 09:36 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Just a thought but maybe like Trump sabotaging the ACA then claiming the ACA failed, this is a means of sabotaging government intervention with the idea one needs private free market intervention.

Trump may be interested in looking like he's managing PR well. But he's also just going to blame others when PR's recovery looks bad. Cue crony capitalism.
A truly disheartening thought. And a likely outcome.
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Old 26th October 2017, 09:42 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Just a thought but maybe like Trump sabotaging the ACA then claiming the ACA failed, this is a means of sabotaging government intervention with the idea one needs private free market intervention.
As I understand it, that was an obstacle to Denmark's assistance to the US Virgin Islands: It seemed that, as a general rule, FEMA has to buy services from local contractors, private enterprise. I guess that the idea is that otherwise, helping the hurricane victims might disadvantage local businessmen trying to sell their services, but somebody here probably knows more about this than I do.
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Old 26th October 2017, 09:46 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
As I understand it, that was an obstacle to Denmark's assistance to the US Virgin Islands: It seemed that, as a general rule, FEMA has to buy services from local contractors, private enterprise. I guess that the idea is that otherwise, helping the hurricane victims might disadvantage local businessmen trying to sell their services, but somebody here probably knows more about this than I do.
Well, to a degree, such a policy makes sense. Using local resources, you're putting money and jobs back into a local economy that's just taken a heavy hit, and assisting it to get back to it's feet.

That being said, such a policy should not bar or limit additional sources of assistance when local resources aren't up to the task.
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Old 26th October 2017, 09:52 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
This is exactly the kind of bureaucratic cock-up that results in empty beds at an emergency hospital. Freaking infuriating.



Color me naive, but I am still holding out for the President to find his mind and heart. Nowhere to go but up, right?

"Naive" isn't the color I'd use for that.
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Old 26th October 2017, 10:02 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
...
Color me naive, but I am still holding out for the President to find his mind and heart. Nowhere to go but up, right?

I understand the desire but, for all his stumbling through his prepared statement... Flake got it exactly right yesterday on the chamber floor.
We've all been waiting, hoping for that "pivot"... it ain't comin'.


Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
That was dropped for budgetary reasons.
The conscience? Well... they're quite costly to maintain. Trump learned that at his daddy's knee.
And with his lifelong premium healthcare, he probably had it surgically removed in his teens.

Certainly it was gone entirely by the time he agreed with the interviewer that remaining STD-free through his Studio 54 days counted as "his personal Viet Nam".
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Old 26th October 2017, 10:37 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I thought it was because he had people for that, and they all got fired.

(Or quit, mebbe. Can you imagine having the job of being Trump's conscience?)
I'd rather have a job herding cats than a job being Trump's conscience.
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Old 26th October 2017, 10:41 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
I understand the desire but, for all his stumbling through his prepared statement... Flake got it exactly right yesterday on the chamber floor.
We've all been waiting, hoping for that "pivot"... it ain't comin'.




The conscience? Well... they're quite costly to maintain. Trump learned that at his daddy's knee.
And with his lifelong premium healthcare, he probably had it surgically removed in his teens.

Certainly it was gone entirely by the time he agreed with the interviewer that remaining STD-free through his Studio 54 days counted as "his personal Viet Nam".
I had extremely low expectations for Trump coming in, and he has managed to fall short of them. I also had a small hope that there was more to Trump than meets the eye, and that he would somehow manage to step up and do a decent job. At this point, it seems that there was actually even less to Trump than meets the eye, and that he has no idea how to step up and do a decent job, in the unlikely event that he even wants to.
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Old 27th October 2017, 02:17 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
This is exactly the kind of bureaucratic cock-up that results in empty beds at an emergency hospital. Freaking infuriating.
Yes, and it's exactly the kind of thing that happens when departments are under-staffed and/or led by people with little or no knowledge of the department, no capacity or willingness to learn and who do the bare minimum (or less) of work.

If you look at the number of vacant senior positions in the Trump Administration, and the quality of the people he has appointed then IMO these kinds of problems will be endemic.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Color me naive, but I am still holding out for the President to find his mind and heart. Nowhere to go but up, right?
I personally think you're being over-optimistic, but I guess that at least that's better than being dismal. President Trump is behaving exactly as Candidate Trump and Businessman Trump did before him. Expecting a 70-year-old to suddenly and fundamentally change their entire persona and value system is, IMO, a little much. As Pterry would say, a leopard doesn't change his shorts
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Old 27th October 2017, 04:20 AM   #308
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I listened to someone on NPR last night discussing the Whitefish deal. It took over a month to get a contract out, and then it went on a no-bid contract to a company that has, literally, two employees, and now they are charging rates double customary emergency rates. And it's just coincidence that the two employees happen to know a cabinet secretary. In fact, the secretary's kid had a summer job with them.

This is sounding very, very, swampy.
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Old 27th October 2017, 04:22 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
This is sounding very, very, swampy.
That tends to happen after hurricanes.
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Old 27th October 2017, 04:40 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I listened to someone on NPR last night discussing the Whitefish deal. It took over a month to get a contract out, and then it went on a no-bid contract to a company that has, literally, two employees, and now they are charging rates double customary emergency rates. And it's just coincidence that the two employees happen to know a cabinet secretary. In fact, the secretary's kid had a summer job with them.

This is sounding very, very, swampy.

As I have pointed out elsewhere, if you pump enough extra **** into the swamp it will inevitably begin to drain.

From the top.

This is what we are seeing.

So Trump's vow to "drain the swamp" is being kept. Just not in the way his bedazzled supporters had expected.

They will, of course, cheerfully and enthusiastically latch on to the idea that he has kept that promise without acknowledging in any fashion the manner by which he has done that.
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Old 27th October 2017, 05:31 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
I understand the desire but, for all his stumbling through his prepared statement... Flake got it exactly right yesterday on the chamber floor.
We've all been waiting, hoping for that "pivot"... it ain't comin'.
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I personally think you're being over-optimistic, but I guess that at least that's better than being dismal. President Trump is behaving exactly as Candidate Trump and Businessman Trump did before him. Expecting a 70-year-old to suddenly and fundamentally change their entire persona and value system is, IMO, a little much. As Pterry would say, a leopard doesn't change his shorts
I know, I know. Slight derail, but I am a generation younger than the President, and I know personally that when I am entrusted with the welfare of others, whether kids, customers, workers or students, that I set my usual flippancy aside and take my responsibilities dead seriously. How can a man sit in the Oval Office and not appreciate the immense gravity of his position? How the hell can he not look around him and have an altruistic epiphany: Holy ****, this isn't some hack TV show or real estate hustle, these are real body bags?
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Old 27th October 2017, 06:46 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
As I have pointed out elsewhere, if you pump enough extra **** into the swamp it will inevitably begin to drain.

From the top.

This is what we are seeing.

So Trump's vow to "drain the swamp" is being kept. Just not in the way his bedazzled supporters had expected.

They will, of course, cheerfully and enthusiastically latch on to the idea that he has kept that promise without acknowledging in any fashion the manner by which he has done that.
Ah, you are thinking of a different approach to the one I had envisioned. which was to dig a bottomless pit.
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OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 27th October 2017, 07:10 AM   #313
The Don
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I know, I know. Slight derail, but I am a generation younger than the President, and I know personally that when I am entrusted with the welfare of others, whether kids, customers, workers or students, that I set my usual flippancy aside and take my responsibilities dead seriously. How can a man sit in the Oval Office and not appreciate the immense gravity of his position? How the hell can he not look around him and have an altruistic epiphany: Holy ****, this isn't some hack TV show or real estate hustle, these are real body bags?
There are many, many reasons. He could be completely overwhelmed by the whole situation and the only way that he can possibly deal with it is to pretend that it doesn't exist. He could be so completely self-absorbed that things only become real when they have an impact on him personally. He could have some personality disorder which means that he finds it impossible to feel any kind of empathy. He could feel empathy but only for a limited subset of society (rich white men).

Or of course he could be doing the job that those who voted for him wanted him to do. They don't care about brownish people on an island in the Caribbean, they care about getting tax cuts and keeping white people in positions of privilege.
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Old 27th October 2017, 07:48 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
There are many, many reasons. He could be completely overwhelmed by the whole situation and the only way that he can possibly deal with it is to pretend that it doesn't exist. He could be so completely self-absorbed that things only become real when they have an impact on him personally. He could have some personality disorder which means that he finds it impossible to feel any kind of empathy. He could feel empathy but only for a limited subset of society (rich white men).

<snip>

I have seen nothing in his entire career which suggests he is capable of feeling empathy for anyone but himself.
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Old 27th October 2017, 08:05 AM   #315
Hubert Cumberdale
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post


The US President tells whopping great lies - not being economical with the truth or cherry-picking favourable parts of a wider story or spinning a story - and whilst the "reputable" press attempt to report on it, the sheer volume of lies seems to have stunned his opposition into silence and his supporters believe whatever rubbish they're told.
This is Trump's MO in a nutshell.

Nothing ever sticks to him because he goes from one lie/scandal to the next, no one has a chance to keep up with him.

By the time anyone gets around to seriously looking at anything he has said or done, he has said or done half a dozen other (possibly worse) things, which then knock the previous thing(s) out of public conscience.
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Old 27th October 2017, 09:37 AM   #316
quadraginta
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Originally Posted by Hubert Cumberdale View Post
By the time anyone gets around to seriously looking at anything he has said or done, he has said or done half a dozen other (possibly worse) things, which then knock the previous thing(s) out of public conscience.
The public has no conscience.

Maybe a consciousness, but I have my doubts about that. Especially these days.
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Old 27th October 2017, 11:49 AM   #317
dann
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I have seen nothing in his entire career which suggests he is capable of feeling empathy for anyone but himself.
Rosebud!
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Old 27th October 2017, 11:53 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by Hubert Cumberdale View Post
By the time anyone gets around to seriously looking at anything he has said or done, he has said or done half a dozen other (possibly worse) things, which then knock the previous thing(s) out of public conscience.
You almost have to be impressed. The "Gish Gallop" shouldn't be possible when the conversation isn't one one one but I'll be damned if he doesn't pull it off.

And in a way I think what he is doing is.... sorta genius (for very specific, very horrible usages of genius.) Puerto Rico has no voting power and regardless of how big of a scandal his handling of Puerto Rico is now by the time the election roles around he's going to have done so much other stuff that Puerto Rico is going to be reduced to to a talking point bullet if that. I'm serious when I say I doubt there will be any practical fallout from this.

Politically it's brilliant, as cynical as that is to say. He might actually have weaponized "Missing the forests for the trees."
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Old 27th October 2017, 12:16 PM   #319
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More reporting on the Whitefish contract. FEMA's saying they never reviewed the contract even though the contract language states that they did. White House is saying this was all PREPA. Gonna be interesting to see how this all plays out.
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Old 27th October 2017, 12:17 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
You almost have to be impressed. The "Gish Gallop" shouldn't be possible when the conversation isn't one one one but I'll be damned if he doesn't pull it off.

And in a way I think what he is doing is.... sorta genius (for very specific, very horrible usages of genius.) Puerto Rico has no voting power and regardless of how big of a scandal his handling of Puerto Rico is now by the time the election roles around he's going to have done so much other stuff that Puerto Rico is going to be reduced to to a talking point bullet if that. I'm serious when I say I doubt there will be any practical fallout from this.

Politically it's brilliant, as cynical as that is to say. He might actually have weaponized "Missing the forests for the trees."
Trump's pretty good at it, no doubt about that, but he does have help from the currently extremely-charged and polarised political climate.
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