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Tags compulsion , deception , idiocy , Nobility , ratitude , violence

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Old 7th October 2017, 08:54 PM   #81
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I don't know, how much it is true but mentioned here:


Quote:
The Natural Human Diet
Human Evolution and the Rise of Meat-Heavy Diets

If itís so unhealthy and unnatural for humans to eat meat, why did our ancestors sometimes turn to flesh for sustenance? During most of our evolutionary history, we were largely vegetarian: Plant foods, such as yams, made up the bulk of our ancestorsí diet. The more frequent addition of modest amounts of meat to the early human diet came with the discovery of fire, which allowed us to lower the risk of being sickened or killed by parasites in meat. This practice didnít turn our ancestors into carnivores but rather allowed early humans to survive during periods in which plant foods were unavailable.

Modern Humans
Until recently, only the wealthiest people could afford to feed, raise, and slaughter animals for meat, and less wealthy and poor people ate mostly plant foods. Consequently, prior to the 20th century, only the rich were plagued routinely with diseases such as heart disease and obesity. Since 1950, the per capita consumption of meat has almost doubled. Now that animal flesh has become relatively cheap and is easily available (thanks to the cruel, cost-cutting practices of factory farming), deadly ailments such as heart disease, strokes, cancer, and obesity have spread to people across the socio-economic spectrum. And as the Western lifestyle spills over into less developed areas in Asia and Africa, people there, too, have begun to suffer and die from diseases associated with meat-based diets.
https://www.peta.org/living/food/natural-human-diet/
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Old 7th October 2017, 08:55 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Do you want to impress that they don't feel pain as we feel?
No, I didn't say anything about feeling pain. The premise is whether they experience the same emotions and think about relationships the same way we do. They don't.

Quote:
Don't they have natural right to life because nursed by others?
This isn't about rights. This is about whether animals factually have the cognitive abilities you ascribe to them. They don't.

Quote:
Don't they have right to have emotions, fear, pain and right to believe their elders & nursers?
this isn't about rights. This is about whether they are physically capable of the abilities you have attributed to them. They aren't.

Quote:
Further evidence: you can do google search for youtube live presentation by it; "This How American Treat,Kill Animals No Mercy". I hesitate to give link.
Yes, the radical animal rights movement is based on the same fallacy you're committing here, which is the assumption that animals have the same emotional depth and cognitive abilities as humans. So we've arrived at the point where you have no actual evidence, but you have some sympathy for a bunch of mush-headed nonsense.

Humans have domesticated animals for food for millennia. Humans are omnivores. Deal with it.
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Old 7th October 2017, 08:58 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Yes thanks. Spell check. Are We humans not somewhat above all other species of beings? Therefore so prominent. So Senior most or eldest.

No. The "great chain of being" is a prescientific, religious idea with no basis in reality.
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Old 7th October 2017, 08:59 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
No, I didn't say anything about feeling pain. The premise is whether they experience the same emotions and think about relationships the same way we do. They don't.



This isn't about rights. This is about whether animals factually have the cognitive abilities you ascribe to them. They don't.



this isn't about rights. This is about whether they are physically capable of the abilities you have attributed to them. They aren't.



Yes, the radical animal rights movement is based on the same fallacy you're committing here, which is the assumption that animals have the same emotional depth and cognitive abilities as humans. So we've arrived at the point where you have no actual evidence, but you have some sympathy for a bunch of mush-headed nonsense.

Humans have domesticated animals for food for millennia. Humans are omnivores. Deal with it.
As you say in you. Look at my next post where Peta has indicated history. However that may also be just emotional or NGO specific view.
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Old 7th October 2017, 09:02 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
As you say in you. Look at my next post where Peta has indicated history. However that may also be just emotional or NGO specific view.
It's cute that you believe PETA on the subject of ethical treatment of animals. They're radical animal rights activists. They are not only hypocrites, but they are committing the same fallacy you are. That others share your delusion is not evidence that it is true. If you wanted to mount a political evangelism of vegetarianism, you could have saved us three pages of pretending that's not what you were about to do.
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Old 7th October 2017, 09:03 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Sorry. Simply, Are those animals not Idiots who misunderstand their owners by over believing them, who initially nurse & love them but slaughter ultimately? Can't say, if those poor animals also feel that their owners being human are senior most among all beings so will consider them like guardian or parents?

Well, obviously you can say it, but you shouldn't because it's nonsense.
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Old 7th October 2017, 09:06 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
No. You have shown no evidence that the animals you describe are capable of that level of cognition. You are simply assuming that animals have the same cognitive and emotional development as humans.

And simultaneously claiming that humans are "somewhat above all other species of beings".
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Old 7th October 2017, 09:06 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Truth, Rational, need & greed and Selfish interests are different terms.
I'm really curious here. Are you, perhaps, responding to the wrong posts? Nothing you say seems to relate in even a vaguely remote way to what it seems to respond to. If I were trying to guarantee that my responses could not be connected I don't think I could do a better job.
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Old 7th October 2017, 09:09 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
...You're assumptively anthropomorphizing them.
Oh Jay. In a Kumar thread?
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Old 7th October 2017, 09:14 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Originally Posted by Kumar
May it not be happening at your place but definately happening at my place.
No, that's special pleading. You've shown no evidence that the food animals with which you're personally acquainted are capable of the degree of cognition you attribute to them.

Remember, Kumar also claims that the laws of physics are different at his place, in that while homoeopathy doesn't work here ("A&F", as he puts it) it works there.
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Old 7th October 2017, 09:21 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
It's cute that you believe PETA on the subject of ethical treatment of animals. They're radical animal rights activists. They are not only hypocrites, but they are committing the same fallacy you are. That others share your delusion is not evidence that it is true. If you wanted to mount a political evangelism of vegetarianism, you could have saved us three pages of pretending that's not what you were about to do.

He doesn't want us to eat "botanical beings" either:
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
I think, similar observations can also be felt in case of botanical beings. They go on offering their products(all parts) by new growth inspite of fact, all parts are cut/plucked and used by humans.

Idiocy of plants! Why they not leave when so badly mistreated?
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Last edited by Mojo; 7th October 2017 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 7th October 2017, 09:29 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
He doesn't want us to eat "botanical beings" either:


Idiocy of plants! Why they not leave when so badly mistreated?
"A green salad," said Arthur emphatically.

"A green salad?" said the animal, rolling his eyes disapprovingly at Arthur.

"Are you going to tell me," said Arthur, "that I shouldn't have green salad?"

"Well," said the animal, "I know many vegetables that are very clear on that point.

Norm
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Old 7th October 2017, 10:30 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
I don't know, how much it is true but mentioned here:
If you don't know then perhaps it would behoove you to find out, preferably before posting it, and certainly before using it to uphold any ideas.
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Old 7th October 2017, 10:51 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
It's cute that you believe PETA on the subject of ethical treatment of animals. They're radical animal rights activists. They are not only hypocrites, but they are committing the same fallacy you are. That others share your delusion is not evidence that it is true. If you wanted to mount a political evangelism of vegetarianism, you could have saved us three pages of pretending that's not what you were about to do.
I tend to look both sides. To look both sides, I need to look and talk on both sides. To me voilence is voilence toward all beings--zoological or botanical esp when posterity is also destroyed alongwith and esp when it is other than for basic need. So nothing is one sidedness from my POV.
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Old 7th October 2017, 10:52 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I'm really curious here. Are you, perhaps, responding to the wrong posts? Nothing you say seems to relate in even a vaguely remote way to what it seems to respond to. If I were trying to guarantee that my responses could not be connected I don't think I could do a better job.
Multiplicity in POVs can be there for every partial thing.
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Old 7th October 2017, 11:11 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
I tend to look both sides.

You are mistaken.
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Old 8th October 2017, 12:37 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
I tend to look both sides. ...
"I've looked at life from both sides now
From up and down and still somehow
It's life's illusions I recall
I really don't know life at all"

(J. Mitchell)
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Old 8th October 2017, 01:43 AM   #98
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I think it's a mixture of compulsion and idiocy. Not sure about the animals and plants
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Old 8th October 2017, 02:02 AM   #99
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Quote:
Human-Animal Bond
Human-Animal BondThe human-animal bond is a mutually beneficial and dynamic relationship between people and animals that is influenced by behaviors that are essential to the health and well-being of both. This includes, but is not limited to, emotional, psychological, and physical interactions of people, animals, and the environment.
https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/Re...Bond-AVMA.aspx
Above suggests "mutually beneficial" relationship--somewhat symbiotic. Does it followed?
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Old 8th October 2017, 02:04 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
I think it's a mixture of compulsion and idiocy. Not sure about the animals and plants
Also look like it. But whether compulsion not go when they set free?
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Old 8th October 2017, 02:06 AM   #101
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It is an interesting mindset that thinks, "these rice/wheat/maize/etc plants, or bulls for that matter, why don't they fight back?" One might conclude it's a willful misunderstanding of how evolution and agricultural selection work.
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Old 8th October 2017, 02:08 AM   #102
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Kumar, how regularly do you witness famers choking their chickens? Do you find yourself compelled to seek out this spectacle?
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Old 8th October 2017, 02:08 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Above suggests "mutually beneficial" relationship--somewhat symbiotic. Does it followed?
No. And no.
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Old 8th October 2017, 02:10 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Also look like it. But whether compulsion not go when they set free?
Your question has already been answered several times!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th October 2017, 03:20 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
It is an interesting mindset that thinks, "these rice/wheat/maize/etc plants, or bulls for that matter, why don't they fight back?" One might conclude it's a willful misunderstanding of how evolution and agricultural selection work.
We may need to check, what nature made and what we made relevant to out relations with other species? Symbiosis, friendly or just food? How other species take us and how we take them? Are animals/birds esp those which are used as food usually friendly or dependent on human?

Whether any natural relation exist which suggest, nurshing and loving to inferior ones entitle us, killing them?
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Old 8th October 2017, 03:32 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Are animals/birds esp those which are used as food usually friendly or dependent on human?
Most farm animals are pretty friendly. Those who weren't were eaten. So were the friendly ones, but not until after they'd been allowed to reproduce Ö
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th October 2017, 03:38 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
Kumar, how regularly do you witness famers choking their chickens? Do you find yourself compelled to seek out this spectacle?
???. I have seen in shops. Yes in farms and during transportation It may not be seens unless farms are directly involved in their processing.

For the purpose of this topic, we also need to find natural relations betwenn human & these animals. Expression of one type of relation is Symbiosis with 3 main variations:

Quote:
Symbiosis can vary between mutualism, commensalism, and parasitism, though these grade into each other, and it is often difficult to tell which is involved in a given relationship. In mutualism, both organisms benefit. In commensalism, one benefits and the other is unaffected; in parasitism, one benefits and the other is harmed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._relationships
Btw, can we classify our relation with those animals/birds parasitism as defined above?
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Old 8th October 2017, 03:45 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Most farm animals are pretty friendly. Those who weren't were eaten. So were the friendly ones, but not until after they'd been allowed to reproduce Ö
Which type of relationship we have with these animals? Symbiotic? If yes, which type out of below?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._relationships
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Old 8th October 2017, 03:52 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
No. And no.
We are not able to define true and natural relationship between human and these animals used for food. Family, parental, friends, inimical, symbiotic or otherwise.
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Old 8th October 2017, 04:02 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
You've shown no evidence that the food animals you're describing are capable of this degree of cognition. You're assumptively anthropomorphizing them.
Do not fall into the trap of anthropomorphizing K!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 8th October 2017, 04:04 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
I tend to look both sides. To look both sides, I need to look and talk on both sides. To me voilence is voilence toward all beings--zoological or botanical esp when posterity is also destroyed alongwith and esp when it is other than for basic need. So nothing is one sidedness from my POV.
I take it (from your own words) that you only perceive two possible sides for things being presented/discussed.
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Old 8th October 2017, 04:06 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
"I've looked at life from both sides now
From up and down and still somehow
It's life's illusions I recall
I really don't know life at all"

(J. Mitchell)
Kumar is no J. Mitchell!!!!!! And never will be!!!
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Old 8th October 2017, 04:08 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Above suggests "mutually beneficial" relationship--somewhat symbiotic. Does it followed?
Does it followed what??? Not to mention how does it if it does!!!!!!!? Or, why?!!!!!
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Old 8th October 2017, 04:11 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
Kumar, how regularly do you witness famers choking their chickens? Do you find yourself compelled to seek out this spectacle?
Likely to be his favorite pass time!!!!!
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Old 8th October 2017, 04:12 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
Kumar, how regularly do you witness famers choking their chickens? Do you find yourself compelled to seek out this spectacle?
???. I have seen in shops.

What sort of shops do you frequent?
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Old 8th October 2017, 04:15 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
We are not able to define true and natural relationship between human and these animals used for food. Family, parental, friends, inimical, symbiotic or otherwise.

Agricultural.
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Old 8th October 2017, 04:16 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Also look like it. But whether compulsion not go when they set free?
This will answer those questions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoYJh6ZRj8o
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Old 8th October 2017, 05:31 AM   #118
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Agricultural can also be f two types:1. Without violence. 2 with violence. Like we raise cows...for milk and diary and for beef. We grow plants for fruits and for other parts. Which is more relevant? Nature gives and we forcibly take from nature is only difference.
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Old 8th October 2017, 06:11 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Agricultural can also be f two types:1. Without violence. 2 with violence. Like we raise cows...for milk and diary and for beef. We grow plants for fruits and for other parts. Which is more relevant? Nature gives and we forcibly take from nature is only difference.
Does this mean that all carnivores are unnatural?
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Old 8th October 2017, 06:38 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Hokulele View Post
Does this mean that all carnivores are unnatural?
No, not all but some can be.
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