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Tags 2016 elections , Clinton controversies , Democratic primaries , dnc , Donna Brazile , election controversies , hillary clinton

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Old 5th November 2017, 01:49 PM   #361
Mycroft
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
Is Delphi a Trump supporter? Or even a Republican? From what I've seen of their posts it seems unlikely to me. Of course they're welcome to clarify but I think your assumptions are wrong and that Delphi has a point.
You're correct in that I may have made an erronious assumtion. At the same time, if they are a Democrat, this is still not the best forum. Arguments for change should be made towards those people empowered to enact change by people who belong to that organization.
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Old 5th November 2017, 02:05 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Yep, we need more Clinton investigations. There haven't been enough. There must be something there and if we just keep looking surely we'll find it this time.
There's a curious parallel with the way Al Gore only became a truly titanic hate-figure on the US Right after losing an election. Hillary Clinton starts from a higher level on the demonic scale but is still being powered upwards in a similar fashion. Weird.

Perhaps it's a response to having their guy win and finding out he's complete crap.
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Old 5th November 2017, 02:10 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Except there is no hypocrisy.
Yes there is.
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Old 5th November 2017, 02:16 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
No, I simply must be a Trump-loving, card-carrying GOP member who is momentarily suppressing their Benghazi tourettes.
You're probably also a bigoted, woman hating, racist, privileged white male. How dare you disagree with your betters.
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Old 5th November 2017, 02:17 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
It's funny that you're hiding behind the law, but you should know better than to try to pass off that BS here. I doubt you would suddenly be fine with discrimination if the law allowed it, so let's dispense with such tripe as it being a "private organization".
The law says that you cannot discriminate in employment, but please show any organisation, public or private, that has 100% transparency in how it reaches its decisions on who it will employ in all of its positions. If you can't, then why demand that the DNC does something no other organisation does or has to do?

Quote:
If the DNC wants to be taken seriously, it shouldn't be rigging it's elections or defending its fascist behavior in the guise of it being a "private organization". If they continue to act they like, they deserve a president like Trump.
Please provide evidence of this "rigging of elections" and "fascist behaviour" because if you do, you'll be the first person to actually have done so rather then just make unsubstantiated claims that it occurred.
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Old 5th November 2017, 02:27 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
The law says that you cannot discriminate in employment, but please show any organisation, public or private, that has 100% transparency in how it reaches its decisions on who it will employ in all of its positions. If you can't, then why demand that the DNC does something no other organisation does or has to do?



Please provide evidence of this "rigging of elections" and "fascist behaviour" because if you do, you'll be the first person to actually have done so rather then just make unsubstantiated claims that it occurred.
No thanks.
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Old 5th November 2017, 02:31 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
You see no evidence of reflexive denials?
No. I see you and a couple other people here believing because you don't have enough information about the DNC, the rest of us couldn't possibly have enough.

Eleven Benghazi hearings, a thorough FBI investigation into Clinton's emails, the Clinton Cash book debunked as nothing but accusation and innuendo, and yet the witch hunt goes on and on.

Now this, Brazile, fired from CNN and apparently feeling quite disgruntled wants to continue the thing that was thoroughly investigated during the primary. There isn't much in this exposé I didn't already know. I was aware Clinton was raising money for the DNC and Sanders wasn't.

I was aware there was a scandal that the DNC money was really going to Clinton in a shell game. That accusation was made after the George Clooney fundraiser. Fundraising by both parties is problematic. It has nothing to do with rigging the primary outcome. Sanders raised plenty of money. Clinton did not get any money that should have been Sanders and the funded-by-a-few-billionaires right wing has no room to talk about money raising tactics by the Democrats.

You think if people don't agree with you they must be uninformed. That's a classic fallacy around here.
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Old 5th November 2017, 02:35 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
It's funny that you're hiding behind the law, but you should know better than to try to pass off that BS here. I doubt you would suddenly be fine with discrimination if the law allowed it, so let's dispense with such tripe as it being a "private organization".

If the DNC wants to be taken seriously, it shouldn't be rigging it's elections or defending its fascist behavior in the guise of it being a "private organization". If they continue to act they like, they deserve a president like Trump.
WTF?

No one is hiding behind the law, that's absurd. It's a simple principle, the government has some legal oversight of private organizations, it isn't comprehensive oversight. I think that debate has run its course.

The second paragraph is just too far out there to address.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:03 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
No thanks.
If you are so unwilling to back up your wild allegations with actual evidence, on a skeptic's board no less, then why did you make them? All while attacking other people's integrity no less.
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Old 5th November 2017, 04:54 PM   #370
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I have a GREAT idea!!

The Democrats and the DNC do an investigation into how this all happened.

They then make recommendations on how to prevent such a situation from happening again.

The DNC and RNC should not be taking money from Presidential candidates in exchange for their control over their operations before the primary season has ended. Such activity suggests bias and unfairness and it should NOT be happening.

Want to give money to the DNC or RNC? God bless you, and thank you.

Want that money to be in exchange for special control over DNC or RNC operations and decisions, even before you win the primary? **** you!!
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:44 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
You're correct in that I may have made an erronious assumtion. At the same time, if they are a Democrat, this is still not the best forum. Arguments for change should be made towards those people empowered to enact change by people who belong to that organization.
How about if I have an opinion?

Is that okay your majesty?
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:52 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
FYI, there was already one ruling on this matter, when Bernie (ETA correction: Bernie supporters) sued the DNC:
Originally Posted by WaPo
A year-long legal battle over the Democratic National Committee’s handling of the 2016 presidential primary came to an end Friday, with a federal judge in Florida dismissing a class-action suit brought by supporters of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.).

To the extent Plaintiffs wish to air their general grievances with the DNC or its candidate selection process, their redress is through the ballot box, the DNC’s internal workings, or their right of free speech — not through the judiciary,” Judge William Zloch, a Reagan appointee, wrote in his dismissal. “To the extent Plaintiffs have asserted specific causes of action grounded in specific factual allegations, it is this Court’s emphatic duty to measure Plaintiffs’ pleadings against existing legal standards. Having done so . . . the Court finds that the named Plaintiffs have not presented a case that is cognizable in federal court.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.5956cbd85bbb

Now, that was based on the information that was available then, but the latest charge of "corruption" (and the "outrage" in the OP title) appears to be based solely on Brazile's (now retracted) "rigging" claim and on misrepresentations about the agreement between Clinton and the DNC. You have been asked repeatedly to explain how the DNC "rigged" the primaries, and you have neither answered that satisfactorily nor successfully distracted from your inability to answer. In fact, the only specific "corruption" that you've claimed so far is the baldfaced lie that Hillary avoided contribution limits and took 99.5% of the Victory Fund.

Maybe you should try the Benghazi thing again?
Excellent!

Now we just need to wait for The Big Dog to acknowledge there is no evidence that the primaries were rigged against Sanders, even in Mrs. Brazile's explicit opinion, and that no law was broken, and hence no outrage, and we can close this thread.
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:53 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I have a GREAT idea!!

The Democrats and the DNC do an investigation into how this all happened.

They then make recommendations on how to prevent such a situation from happening again.
That is a great idea.

What will happen is that some Democrats will insist that there is nothing to investigate and then 20 minutes later another Democrat on the same network will say that if Donald Trump has nothing to hide, he shouldn't be worried about the investigation against him.

Quote:
The DNC and RNC should not be taking money from Presidential candidates in exchange for their control over their operations before the primary season has ended. Such activity suggests bias and unfairness and it should NOT be happening.

Want to give money to the DNC or RNC? God bless you, and thank you.

Want that money to be in exchange for special control over DNC or RNC operations and decisions, even before you win the primary? **** you!!
Agreed in full.
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Old 5th November 2017, 06:25 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Excellent!

Now we just need to wait for The Big Dog to acknowledge there is no evidence that the primaries were rigged against Sanders, even in Mrs. Brazile's explicit opinion, and that no law was broken, and hence no outrage, and we can close this thread.
Now all we have to do is wait for Apologists to acknowledge the Clinton and her gang of thieves looted the states in her obsessive and failed attempt to become President.

By the way, the sneering contempt for the millions of Sanders supporters from Clinton and her spokesthugs will likely cost the Democrat party the midterms.
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Old 5th November 2017, 06:32 PM   #375
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Anyone else here subjected to friends and roommates who watched WWE religiously?

I was enough that I can see different outlets use similar scripts.

Establish "face" and "heel" characters. Remember, a big chunk of audience like heels and think faces are sellouts/egoists. Many of the most popular heels are the ones who directly challenge and subvert the power structure of the WWE itself (within the fantasy world on TV). Many of the most popular politicians are the ones who directly challenge and subvert the power structure of the U.S. itself (within the fantasy world on TV). ETA: the problem with this part, of course, is that when the WWE is "taken over" by a wrestler because he physically pummeled the owner into capitulating total control of a publicly-traded company, there is no exodus of shareholders or other real-world fallout. A rogue lunatic taking over a modern superpower with a nuclear arsenal is a little bit more than just "good drama" (though I have no doubt there are newsroom producers galore who think so).

Goad them into making blusterous statements and exchanging barbs. In WWE land this is via (obviously arranged) "exclusive interviews" and "candid backstage goings-on." Don't mind why none of them acknowledge the camera, just go with it. In real media, every interview was already done 5 times by the time you see the interview. The questions are locked in, the answers were poll-tested overnight (note to self: check the cross-tabs in Ohio, may be something there...). Most salacious reveals about a politician are planted by rivals, we've even seen networks calculating on when to go public (even after vetting and confirming, but purely for maximum splash). Don't mind that none of them acknowledge the presence of the camera, just go with it.

Build up to a match in the ring. Talking heads shouting at each other, some Russian trolls artificially boost one of wrestler's popularity standings, the head of the WWE runs for public office, sometimes the writers run out of ideas and it just looks like a ****-show for a while but still somehow fun to watch. Every once in a while we'll run some really big, epic arcs and have them culminate in a pay-per-view.

Springer is scripted. Reality TV is scripted. "Professional" wrestling is scripted. Daytime drama...I don't need to tell you that one, but it's the same sappy ********. Well, producers produce. Sometimes the thing that needs producing when they are hunting for work is news. Guess what they are going to do when they get there after having to cut their teeth for years on that contrived crap?

Like many people, it will have a good dose of what's familiar. Plus, it (sadly) does seem to get the eyeballs glued to the screens.

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Old 5th November 2017, 06:42 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Now all we have to do is wait for Apologists to acknowledge the Clinton and her gang of thieves looted the states in her obsessive and failed attempt to become President.

By the way, the sneering contempt for the millions of Sanders supporters from Clinton and her spokesthugs will likely cost the Democrat party the midterms.
Oh good lord, that wound has already scarred over. Those daggers came out within 48-72 hours of the election.

For all the fractiousness of the GOP right now in not being able to deliver signature legislation despite majorities, the only reason the Dems look (comparatively) unified is because they are the opposition party (and they haven't even had to do much opposing, at that). So it's mostly just that there's no stress to expose the divisions.

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Old 5th November 2017, 06:51 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Now all we have to do is wait for Apologists to acknowledge the Clinton and her gang of thieves looted the states in her obsessive and failed attempt to become President.

By the way, the sneering contempt for the millions of Sanders supporters from Clinton and her spokesthugs will likely cost the Democrat party the midterms.
You keep saying "the states", sometimes capitalized "the States". I am pretty sure you don't mean that.

I haven't read your sources, but am quite convinced you misread them, or they fool you.

Can you provide a sourced example of a state/State that was "looted" by Clinton, and how, and how much money it lost in the process? Is any state/State entitled to redress and seeking it?
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Old 5th November 2017, 07:00 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
You keep saying "the states", sometimes capitalized "the States". I am pretty sure you don't mean that.

I haven't read your sources, but am quite convinced you misread them, or they fool you.

Can you provide a sourced example of a state/State that was "looted" by Clinton, and how, and how much money it lost in the process? Is any state/State entitled to redress and seeking it?
Have not read my sources? But want specific details about the money lost? Yeah, let me get right on answering your questions because you did not read the sources which has them in there along with the details of the states that got **********.

That is some truther level nonsense.
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Old 5th November 2017, 07:07 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Have not read my sources? But want specific details about the money lost? Yeah, let me get right on answering your questions because you did not read the sources which has them in there along with the details of the states that got **********.

That is some truther level nonsense.
You're well into the thread. No one's wading back through pages of drivel to find the links. Link to the source of these claims, please. Is it a report? An audit? A comment by a pissed off Bernie Dem? George Clooney?
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Old 5th November 2017, 07:14 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
You're well into the thread. No one's wading back through pages of drivel to find the links. Link to the source of these claims, please. Is it a report? An audit? A comment by a pissed off Bernie Dem? George Clooney?
Oh, ok... sounds reasonable.

Please give me a few minutes to fetch those links, wait here.
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Old 5th November 2017, 07:44 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh, ok... sounds reasonable.

Please give me a few minutes to fetch those links, wait here.
I highly recommend that you re-read them before posting, and I do hope you won't make us guess what claims you think each source supports.
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Old 5th November 2017, 07:52 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
The DNC and RNC should not be taking money from Presidential candidates in exchange for their control over their operations before the primary season has ended. Such activity suggests bias and unfairness and it should NOT be happening.
Considering that the DNC has no control or functions within the Primaries, other then providing basic candidate information, keeping an up to date democratic voter register that the Campaigns can access for a fee, and on-filing with the States any paperwork sent by the Campaigns to them, what exactly is it that they can do that would seem to show "bias and unfairness"?
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Old 5th November 2017, 07:59 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
You're well into the thread. No one's wading back through pages of drivel to find the links. Link to the source of these claims, please. Is it a report? An audit? A comment by a pissed off Bernie Dem? George Clooney?
There's a wiki with refs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Victory_Fund
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Old 5th November 2017, 07:59 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
Yes there is.
No there isn't.
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Old 5th November 2017, 08:48 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by Cayvmann View Post
Clinton won the popular vote by 3M. Still lost. Sander had nothing to do with that.
How Trump won the presidency with razor-thin margins in swing states
Quote:
Of the more than 120 million votes cast in the 2016 election, 107,000 votes in three states effectively decided the election... If Clinton had won these states, she could have sealed the presidency with 274 total electoral votes.

This election was effectively decided by 107,000 people in these three states. Trump won the popular vote there by that combined amount. That amounts to 0.09 percent of all votes cast in this election.
The Brutal Truth Is That Sanders Did Damage Clinton
Quote:
three recent surveys showed that in the three states that put Trump in the Oval Office, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, a number of voters who voted for Sanders in the Democratic primary in those states crossed over and voted for Trump in the general election.

They were registered Democrats. They did not simply stay home, cast a vote for a third-party candidate, Jill Stein, or write Sanders’ name in. They actually voted for Trump
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Old 5th November 2017, 09:00 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
IOW you think Clinton had the power to bribe millions of voters in the primary.
No, I think she had the power to bribe thousands of campaign workers and wannabe politicians. And "bribe" is a loaded word, but people do favors for other people, and it's perfectly legal, so "bribe" doesn't seem to fit, but I can't think of a better word to describe it.

That really is how local politics works. Those workers can't guarantee actual votes on the primary election day, but they do have a lot of influence. That's the "ground game" an "organization" that you hear the media talk about in an election year. There's a reason politicians have campaign headquarters in localities across the country. When they go to "get out the vote", those are the people that do the work.

And if you ever participate in those activities, there are paid staffers coordinating the efforts of volunteers like me. And why do those people do it? An idealistic vision that makes them really want to see [insert name here] elected to office? Well, partly. That's not completely absent. But if their guy gets in, they also hope that their guy will remember their efforts when their daughter, who is a political science major, is looking for an internship. And, when they are looking for what horse to back, they sometimes ask themselves what's in it for them.

Do you seriously doubt that happens? That's what all that party organization does. That's the point of having it.
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Old 5th November 2017, 09:28 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Considering that the DNC has no control or functions within the Primaries, other then providing basic candidate information, keeping an up to date democratic voter register that the Campaigns can access for a fee, and on-filing with the States any paperwork sent by the Campaigns to them, what exactly is it that they can do that would seem to show "bias and unfairness"?
Sure. Also, candidates do not coordinate with superPACs, political appointments are made on merit, and voting districts are fairly proportioned.

Take solace that justice and prosperity are ascendant here in Camelot.
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Old 5th November 2017, 09:30 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh, ok... sounds reasonable.

Please give me a few minutes to fetch those links, wait here.
One is to assume this was a polite way of saying **** you?




Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post

That can't be the source, can it? There's a major flaw if it is.
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Old 5th November 2017, 09:40 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
The "razor-thin margin is Sanders' fault" thing has a built-in second sword edge, though.

Since the margins were that thin, there's about 800 other things equally aspiring to the title of "reason why Clinton lost." Clinton herself is chief among those making sure we are reminded of as many of them as possible (well, except one, obviously).

I think if Chuck Schumer saying “For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin” is any indication of what was going on in the heads of those in the Hillary/DNC camp, then that's a fair bit more directly responsible than "a number of voters" (???) walking away from the Democratic Party.

Also, again I point out that the DNC isn't owed anyone's vote to begin with. If they put up a platform so repugnant even their own members (ETA: in a particular geographic region with a deeply-entrenched, quietly unnoticed, decades-long economic recession and accompanying rampant suicide/opioid crisis...yay unfettered global vulture capitalism?) walk away from it, why is that the voters' fault?

"Well the plebs just don't know what's best for them, I guess" is not a narrative that will have the red carpets rolling out your way.

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Old 5th November 2017, 09:43 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
No, I think she had the power to bribe thousands of campaign workers and wannabe politicians. And "bribe" is a loaded word, but people do favors for other people, and it's perfectly legal, so "bribe" doesn't seem to fit, but I can't think of a better word to describe it.

That really is how local politics works. Those workers can't guarantee actual votes on the primary election day, but they do have a lot of influence. That's the "ground game" an "organization" that you hear the media talk about in an election year. There's a reason politicians have campaign headquarters in localities across the country. When they go to "get out the vote", those are the people that do the work.

And if you ever participate in those activities, there are paid staffers coordinating the efforts of volunteers like me. And why do those people do it? An idealistic vision that makes them really want to see [insert name here] elected to office? Well, partly. That's not completely absent. But if their guy gets in, they also hope that their guy will remember their efforts when their daughter, who is a political science major, is looking for an internship. And, when they are looking for what horse to back, they sometimes ask themselves what's in it for them.

Do you seriously doubt that happens? That's what all that party organization does. That's the point of having it.
Agreed. Although we're in a roiling period where there are still carrots and sticks (for the most part), but there's also a fashion-contest-slash-telethon-fundraiser thing that allows people to totally bypass it if they have the requisite savvy, which then makes it hard to enforce discipline even on those who don't.
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Old 5th November 2017, 10:09 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Sure. Also, candidates do not coordinate with superPACs, political appointments are made on merit, and voting districts are fairly proportioned.

Take solace that justice and prosperity are ascendant here in Camelot.
Well then since you are so convinced that there was biasing and unfairness going on, perhaps you will be the first one to actually detail what these biases were, how it was unfair, and provide the evidence of such to prove your case? No? yeah I thought not.
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Old 5th November 2017, 10:11 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh, ok... sounds reasonable.

Please give me a few minutes to fetch those links, wait here.
Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
I highly recommend that you re-read them before posting, and I do hope you won't make us guess what claims you think each source supports.
Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
One is to assume this was a polite way of saying **** you?







That can't be the source, can it? There's a major flaw if it is.
As it's about two in the ach emma in Chicagoland, I did the research. TBD is referring to the quote in the Politico article. Lazy bastages that they are, they are citing their own reporting, so sadly that is the source for this rather unsubstantiated claim.

Their article was from May 2016. Show of hands, class. Who sees the problem. Anyone? Buehler?

Buehler! Yes, Mr. Buehler what problem do you see?

Well, the federal election hadn't started. The HVF was raising funds for the general election. The states hadn't nominated any downline candidates yet and the national hadn't nominated the Presidential candidate.

That figure has to be taken with a jeroboam of salt. The deal with the HVF and DNC was to raise and manage funds for the GE. There was no GE. The 1% represents an early figure and I'm willing to bet that the same reporter could've gone to the FEC figures and come up with a later figure but that it wasn't as impressive as the figure from ???? Feb/Mar 2016? The FEC isn't real speedy and if the article was written in early May then the figures are from April 2016 at the latest but more likely from February or March.

And that's just the obvious cherry-picking problem with that figure. The other end of it is 1% of how much? Did the states get 50 million in contributions by re-branding themselves based on the coming GE. "Missourians for Hillary" gets clicks and donations. "Missouri Democrats for As Yet Unnamed Local Candidates"? Not so many.
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Old 5th November 2017, 10:14 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
No, I think she had the power to bribe thousands of campaign workers and wannabe politicians. And "bribe" is a loaded word, but people do favors for other people, and it's perfectly legal, so "bribe" doesn't seem to fit, but I can't think of a better word to describe it.

That really is how local politics works. Those workers can't guarantee actual votes on the primary election day, but they do have a lot of influence. That's the "ground game" an "organization" that you hear the media talk about in an election year. There's a reason politicians have campaign headquarters in localities across the country. When they go to "get out the vote", those are the people that do the work.

And if you ever participate in those activities, there are paid staffers coordinating the efforts of volunteers like me. And why do those people do it? An idealistic vision that makes them really want to see [insert name here] elected to office? Well, partly. That's not completely absent. But if their guy gets in, they also hope that their guy will remember their efforts when their daughter, who is a political science major, is looking for an internship. And, when they are looking for what horse to back, they sometimes ask themselves what's in it for them.

Do you seriously doubt that happens? That's what all that party organization does. That's the point of having it.
you seem to be suggesting that it was unfair that Clinton had sway over people working in her own campaign?

As for the Democrat Party, each State has a organisation that is separate from the DNC and each other. Each State's Democrat Party does as it wishes. If you want to claim that these organisations were somehow influenced into supporting Clinton unfairly during the Primaries, then a) please provide proof that they did , and b) please provide proof that they were told to do so by the DNC or Clinton Campaign. Otherwise you seem to be making up allegations out of whole cloth.
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Old 5th November 2017, 10:29 PM   #394
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Bueller.
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Old 5th November 2017, 11:09 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Bueller.
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I AGREE
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Old 5th November 2017, 11:18 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
No, I think she had the power to bribe thousands of campaign workers and wannabe politicians. And "bribe" is a loaded word, but people do favors for other people, and it's perfectly legal, so "bribe" doesn't seem to fit, but I can't think of a better word to describe it.

That really is how local politics works. Those workers can't guarantee actual votes on the primary election day, but they do have a lot of influence. That's the "ground game" an "organization" that you hear the media talk about in an election year. There's a reason politicians have campaign headquarters in localities across the country. When they go to "get out the vote", those are the people that do the work.

And if you ever participate in those activities, there are paid staffers coordinating the efforts of volunteers like me. And why do those people do it? An idealistic vision that makes them really want to see [insert name here] elected to office? Well, partly. That's not completely absent. But if their guy gets in, they also hope that their guy will remember their efforts when their daughter, who is a political science major, is looking for an internship. And, when they are looking for what horse to back, they sometimes ask themselves what's in it for them.

Do you seriously doubt that happens? That's what all that party organization does. That's the point of having it.
If I ever participate? You mean like I do every two years and sometimes more often when there are issues at stake?

What did these thousands of people do to get Clinton elected? Let me guess, phone banks, door to door, all those things that disadvantaged Sanders who had his own army of campaigners but couldn't do that without the DNC support.
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Old 5th November 2017, 11:22 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Wow! What does the "m" in the web address mean? My Wiki link is different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Victory_Fund

And I'm not debating the campaign donation shell game, by the way. I just don't think it means Clinton, who worked to raise the funds, had some rigged advantage over Sanders who chose not to.

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Old 5th November 2017, 11:23 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
you seem to be suggesting that it was unfair that Clinton had sway over people working in her own campaign?

As for the Democrat Party, each State has a organisation that is separate from the DNC and each other. Each State's Democrat Party does as it wishes. If you want to claim that these organisations were somehow influenced into supporting Clinton unfairly during the Primaries, then a) please provide proof that they did , and b) please provide proof that they were told to do so by the DNC or Clinton Campaign. Otherwise you seem to be making up allegations out of whole cloth.
Who said anything about unfair?
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Old 5th November 2017, 11:36 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Who said anything about unfair?
Well plenty of people, in this very thread. True you have only said that things were steered in her direction and that she was chosen by the party insiders, though that would seem to indicate that you think the process was unfairly weighted too even if you haven't specifically said the word itself.
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Old 5th November 2017, 11:38 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Wow! What does the "m" in the web address mean? My Wiki link is different.
Mobile.
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