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Tags 2016 elections , Clinton controversies , Democratic primaries , dnc , Donna Brazile , election controversies , hillary clinton

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Old 5th November 2017, 08:13 AM   #321
theprestige
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Nope, but they sure did help him out quite a bit, in a more direct way than the DNC helped Hillary.
"More direct."
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Old 5th November 2017, 08:16 AM   #322
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Le gasp!

Quote:
Donna Brazile, the former interim chair of the Democratic National Committee, said she "found no evidence, none whatsoever" that the Democratic primaries were rigged in favor of Hillary Clinton, dialing back an earlier statement in a Politico tell-all that the DNC was "rigging the system" for Clinton. Brazile made the comments in an interview on ABC's "This Week."
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Old 5th November 2017, 08:23 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
The DNC and RNC are both private institutions.
Private institutions that have given a privileged place in the American election system.
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Old 5th November 2017, 08:32 AM   #324
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Suddenly democrats find open process and ethical behavior of party officials to be none of anyone's business who isn't a member of said party.

I hope none of them have made statements of criticism over how the GOP runs.

I'm starting to realize there are certainly two parties in American politics: the party in power and the party not in power. Their faces may change, but their behaviors and positions quickly align to their current status.

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Old 5th November 2017, 08:32 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
We have no comprehensive theories on how the Trump Campaign may have colluded with the Russians, Russian hackers or Wikileaks and yet we have spent almost a year looking into whatever posibilities we may find. Even if we find none.
Hence the Mueller investigation.

Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
I am not happy about what happened, but my outrage is reserved for what Trump does on a nearly hourly basis.
Yeah, that takes up a lot of bandwidth. Doesn't leave much room for anything else.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
How was it rigged? Actually it was, a lot of the Putin Bots were selling the Crooked Hillary meme. Look in the mirror. You were sold a bill of goods on Clinton. You fell for the Russian scam hook, line and sinker.
Whatever the Russians did was on top of what the Republicans had been doing to Hillary Clinton for decades. An ideological opponent who reaches a position of power must be opposed, but if it also has a vagina instead of a penis, then the level of hatred goes way up..up..up!
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Old 5th November 2017, 08:45 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Suddenly democrats find open process and ethical behavior of party officials to be none of anyone's business who isn't a member of said party.

I hope none of them have made statements of criticism over how the GOP runs.
Suddenly?

I would think that Republicans would be scrambling to fix their system to it couldn't be hyjacked by racist, populist morons ever again, but instead they seem to be standing by while the likes of Gorka and Bannon take over. Your ship is going down and instead of getting life rafts in the water, you're pointing at our ship looking for flaws that don't exist.

Bad? In my opinion catastrophically so, but RNC problems are RNC problems. Not my concern unless I join that party.

Which makes me think your concern is not really about issues with the DNC, but that you just want to pound on the "Hillary is bad, very very bad" meme to distract from the catastrophy that Trump is while also creating/compounding fractures within the DNC.

You know, just like the Russians would want you to do. Hey, maybe someday they will give you a medal for it.
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Old 5th November 2017, 08:47 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
The DNC and RNC are both private institutions.
Say that is the very same argument that the DNC used to try to exclude black voters from their white only primaries, and that was rejected by the US Supreme Court in Smith v. Allwright
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Old 5th November 2017, 08:48 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Private institutions that have given a privileged place in the American election system.
The Constitution doesn't mandate a two party system. Maybe the system as a whole needs reform.
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Old 5th November 2017, 08:53 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Private institutions that have given a privileged place in the American election system.
Like the NRA
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Old 5th November 2017, 09:01 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Say that is the very same argument that the DNC used to try to exclude black voters from their white only primaries, and that was rejected by the US Supreme Court in Smith v. Allwright
And this is just like that!
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Old 5th November 2017, 09:07 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
And this is just like that!
Exactly, they are using just the same arguments that the DNC used in that case. The very same ones, indeed the comment to which I was replying would not at all seem out of place in the brief the DNC filed arguing that it could exclude blacks from their primary.

The assertion that the political parties are "private" is absurd given that they rely on the power of the State to enforce their "private" rules regarding primaries.

Try to submit two ballots in a primary or try to vote in a Democrat "closed" primary as a registered Republican, and you will quickly find yourself on the way to PMITAP.
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Old 5th November 2017, 09:12 AM   #332
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I know that TBD has been leading this trainwreck of a thread, but really, this is an issue for Democrats to resolve among themselves. Obviously, shouting down TBD doesn't do much to address the concerns of registered Democrats who are feeling left out of the party's candidate selection process, and feeling betrayed by the outcome of that process.

Just as obviously, shouting down the concerned Democrats themselves probably won't help much either. And "not technically illegal" seems like a thin excuse. I think "machine Democrats" are probably overestimating how much Trump hatred will excite and motivate disheartened Democrats in the mid-terms. I think they're underestimating how much the appearance of a corrupt and inept party machine will drive down attendance at the polls.

But like I said, this is really a matter for Democrats. From the outside, for me, it's more of a Punch and Judy show. TBD has erected the proscenium, and serves as narrator. All the little puppets dutifully come onstage and flail about at each other with their brickbats. Occasionally they flail at the narrator, but it's all part of the show.
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Old 5th November 2017, 09:12 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Say that is the very same argument that the DNC used to try to exclude black voters from their white only primaries, and that was rejected by the US Supreme Court in Smith v. Allwright
It's beyond obvious that both sides use the "it's a private organization" line as a dodge when it suits their purposes but are perfectly capable of mandating those same private organizations behave in ways they proscribe in other areas. These days, when someone says "they are a private organization", chances are you're talking to a partisan/tribal hack.


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Old 5th November 2017, 09:17 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Suddenly?

I would think that Republicans would be scrambling to fix their system to it couldn't be hyjacked by racist, populist morons ever again, but instead they seem to be standing by while the likes of Gorka and Bannon take over. Your ship is going down and instead of getting life rafts in the water, you're pointing at our ship looking for flaws that don't exist.
My ship?

Maybe don't be a presumptive ass?

Quote:
Bad? In my opinion catastrophically so, but RNC problems are RNC problems. Not my concern unless I join that party.
The topic is DNC corruption.

You're doing that changing the subject thing.

Quote:
Which makes me think your concern is not really about issues with the DNC, but that you just want to pound on the "Hillary is bad, very very bad" meme to distract from the catastrophy that Trump is while also creating/compounding fractures within the DNC.
Now we're discussing my motives and not the topic.

Quote:
You know, just like the Russians would want you to do. Hey, maybe someday they will give you a medal for it.
Donna Brazile is part of the Russian hacking plot?

I guess I don't need to fret over 2020 at this point. I can see how that's going to go...

This is where the tapatalk signature that annoys people used to be
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Old 5th November 2017, 09:19 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I know that TBD has been leading this trainwreck of a thread, but really, this is an issue for Democrats to resolve among themselves. Obviously, shouting down TBD doesn't do much to address the concerns of registered Democrats who are feeling left out of the party's candidate selection process, and feeling betrayed by the outcome of that process.

Just as obviously, shouting down the concerned Democrats themselves probably won't help much either. And "not technically illegal" seems like a thin excuse. I think "machine Democrats" are probably overestimating how much Trump hatred will excite and motivate disheartened Democrats in the mid-terms. I think they're underestimating how much the appearance of a corrupt and inept party machine will drive down attendance at the polls.

But like I said, this is really a matter for Democrats. From the outside, for me, it's more of a Punch and Judy show. TBD has erected the proscenium, and serves as narrator. All the little puppets dutifully come onstage and flail about at each other with their brickbats. Occasionally they flail at the narrator, but it's all part of the show.
As long as the "resolution" method amounts to portraying all criticism as being racist/sexist/unwitting pawns of Russia, I don't have much hope of the issues being addressed.

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Old 5th November 2017, 09:19 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
The DNC and RNC are both private institutions.
But they also rely on their reputation to provide a fair playing field. In other words, the remedy for this is not legal, but social.

As for Brazile, I am not sure what to make of her accusations. I do note that she has attempted to row back the "rigged" charge, and her claim to have considered replacing Hillary as the nominee seems grandiose at best; the DNC chair certainly does not have that power. She may have considered the possibility that Hillary might have to step down (this was right after Hillary's near-fainting spell IIRC at the 9-11 Memorial), and come up with a list of things she would have to do if it happened, but that's about it. Indeed, I'd be very surprised if the party does not have a rule to cover this eventuality. Post-convention, I'd assume that if Hillary had stepped down, Kaine would have become the nominee.
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Old 5th November 2017, 09:19 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Exactly, they are using just the same arguments that the DNC used in that case...
Being a private organization doesn't give one the right to discriminate.

It does, however, mean that the internal workings of that organization are the concern of those that run and belong to that organization, and not the concern of those who really only want to fabricate a controversy to distract from the disaster that is the leader of their political party and/or who are only looking to create/inflame division.

You know, like what the Russians would want you to do.
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Old 5th November 2017, 09:23 AM   #338
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Being a private organization doesn't give one the right to discriminate.

It does, however, mean that the internal workings of that organization are the concern of those that run and belong to that organization, and not the concern of those who really only want to fabricate a controversy to distract from the disaster that is the leader of their political party and/or who are only looking to create/inflame division.

You know, like what the Russians would want you to do.
anyone else think the Russians wanted him to delete the rest of my post? Here is the Kremlin disproved post:

Exactly, they are using just the same arguments that the DNC used in that case. The very same ones, indeed the comment to which I was replying would not at all seem out of place in the brief the DNC filed arguing that it could exclude blacks from their primary.

The assertion that the political parties are "private" is absurd given that they rely on the power of the State to enforce their "private" rules regarding primaries.

Try to submit two ballots in a primary or try to vote in a Democrat "closed" primary as a registered Republican, and you will quickly find yourself on the way to PMITAP.
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Old 5th November 2017, 09:27 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Being a private organization doesn't give one the right to discriminate.
Translation: a private organization can only behave in ways which I deem are acceptable. Once the do something I don't like, their status as a private organization is no longer relevant.

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Old 5th November 2017, 09:45 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
My ship?

Maybe don't be a presumptive ass?
"Presumption" is trying to exacerbate conflict in someone else's party while ignoring the problems in your own.

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
The topic is DNC corruption.

You're doing that changing the subject thing.
Except I specifically said that not being a member of the RNC, it's not my problem.

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Now we're discussing my motives and not the topic.
Because you have no standing to complain. Maybe after you take that beam out of your own eye?

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Donna Brazile is part of the Russian hacking plot?
Straw-man. The Russian modus operandi isn't to create new rifts but to exacerbate existing rifts, real and perceived.

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I guess I don't need to fret over 2020 at this point. I can see how that's going to go...
Seems you have plenty to fret about without manufacturing problems for someone else's party.
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Old 5th November 2017, 09:53 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
Translation: a private organization can only behave in ways which I deem are acceptable. Once the do something I don't like, their status as a private organization is no longer relevant.

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Nope, that principle is enshrined in US law.

If you want to form a golf club that excludes black people and Jewish people, you can't do that. But if that same club want's to elect it's leadership by having a competition where the prospective candidates walk like a duck while sniffing members butts, it's nobody's business except their own.
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Old 5th November 2017, 10:00 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
anyone else think the Russians wanted him to delete the rest of my post? Here is the Kremlin disproved post:
Because quoting the entire post wasn't necessary to address it's flaws, just like now.
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Old 5th November 2017, 10:01 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Exactly, they are using just the same arguments that the DNC used in that case. The very same ones, indeed the comment to which I was replying would not at all seem out of place in the brief the DNC filed arguing that it could exclude blacks from their primary.

The assertion that the political parties are "private" is absurd given that they rely on the power of the State to enforce their "private" rules regarding primaries.

Try to submit two ballots in a primary or try to vote in a Democrat "closed" primary as a registered Republican, and you will quickly find yourself on the way to PMITAP.
FYI, there was already one ruling on this matter, when Bernie (ETA correction: Bernie supporters) sued the DNC:

Originally Posted by Washington Post
A year-long legal battle over the Democratic National Committee’s handling of the 2016 presidential primary came to an end Friday, with a federal judge in Florida dismissing a class-action suit brought by supporters of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.).

To the extent Plaintiffs wish to air their general grievances with the DNC or its candidate selection process, their redress is through the ballot box, the DNC’s internal workings, or their right of free speech — not through the judiciary,” Judge William Zloch, a Reagan appointee, wrote in his dismissal. “To the extent Plaintiffs have asserted specific causes of action grounded in specific factual allegations, it is this Court’s emphatic duty to measure Plaintiffs’ pleadings against existing legal standards. Having done so . . . the Court finds that the named Plaintiffs have not presented a case that is cognizable in federal court.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.5956cbd85bbb

Now, that was based on the information that was available then, but the latest charge of "corruption" (and the "outrage" in the OP title) appears to be based solely on Brazile's (now retracted) "rigging" claim and on misrepresentations about the agreement between Clinton and the DNC. You have been asked repeatedly to explain how the DNC "rigged" the primaries, and you have neither answered that satisfactorily nor successfully distracted from your inability to answer. In fact, the only specific "corruption" that you've claimed so far is the baldfaced lie that Hillary avoided contribution limits and took 99.5% of the Victory Fund.

Maybe you should try the Benghazi thing again?

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Old 5th November 2017, 10:10 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
FYI, there was already one ruling on this matter, when Bernie sued the DNC:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.5956cbd85bbb

Now, that was based on the information that was available then, but the latest charge of "corruption" (and the "outrage" in the OP title) appears to be based solely on Brazile's (now retracted) "rigging" claim and on misrepresentations about the agreement between Clinton and the DNC. You have been asked repeatedly to explain how the DNC "rigged" the primaries, and you have neither answered that satisfactorily nor successfully distracted from your inability to answer. In fact, the only specific "corruption" that you've claimed so far is the baldfaced lie that Hillary avoided contribution limits and took 99.5% of the Victory Fund.

Maybe you should try the Benghazi thing again?
Yeah, the money sucked out of the state funds was more than 99.5% during the time that Clinton and her utterly corrupt cronies were sucking the life out of the bottom of the ballot.

Curious how many folks continue to defend the bloated corpse of the failed Clinton junta and mouth her gangís talking points, future of the party be damned.
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Old 5th November 2017, 10:26 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
What do any of those have to do with my position?

I think you're entirely mistaken.

I'm not making a Bernie is the saviour claim.

Please, I repeat, respond to my position when you quote me.

You have entirely changed the point in a flurry of red herrings with sound bite references.

You think I'm the programmed one?

Your prior reply about Goodman/Democracy Now just reads like classic "I have all I need to know about this topic" which is a rather funny rationale for turning off a news story with new information in it.

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ETA: I don't believe the Crooked Hillary line, ergo I was not sold a bill of goods, bots did not sell it to me, and Putin isn't behind it (as it isn't true). I'm not the subject anyways.

Honestly, what a futile waste of neurons and bandwidth you've managed here...


And still nothing specific about how said rigging worked.
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Old 5th November 2017, 10:38 AM   #346
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
There are a lot of ways this sort of steering works, but primarily it comes down to handing out favors. There are an awful lot of positions that, even if they are elected, are basically chosen by the party leadership. Sure, someone could mount an independent or self funded bid to become a state Attorney General, which is an elected position, but in almost every case, the winner in the primary for those races will be the person endorsed by the state party.
You're claiming the state parties announced who they favored? And the reason is they got favors from the DNC?

In my state, WA, we had a primary that didn't count. Clinton won. And a caucus that did count. Sanders not only won but the party reps running the caucus made no bones about the fact they personally supported Sanders.

Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Now, if a presidential candidate has friends on the state committee, those people can go to an aspiring candidate and say, "We really haven't decided who to back for Attorney General, but we really like Hillary Clinton for president. I think someone who shares her values would really be the perfect candidate for Attorney General. Say, what do you think of Mrs. Clinton?" When you control the insiders, they can get pretty much everyone up and down the line on your side. You can't actually tell people how to vote, but you can have tremendous influence over who everyone is talking about, who gets air time, to whom donors ought to donate.
How Democrats Endorse, from President to School Board
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o begin with, itís important to understand that any endorsements are made by either the National, State, or County Party -- all of which are related but independent organizations. After primary elections or caucuses are held in all 50 states, delegates for the presidential candidates will officially vote on the endorsement of the Democratic nominee for President at the Democratic National Committee Convention
The party doesn't endorse primary candidates.

Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I've worked on political campaigns, only low level volunteer work, but they are filled with people who hope to be rewarded for their service by receiving appointments or job offers. Clinton had a lot more influence passing out goodies like that, because her people were in positions where they could make it happen.
IOW you think Clinton had the power to bribe millions of voters in the primary.

You are conflating the general election with the primary, and, not surprisingly, you can't believe Clinton was actually the preferred candidate.
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Old 5th November 2017, 10:41 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Exactly that. The public is interested for good reason, resulting in e.g. the media reporting about it. I expect and hope indeed responsible journalists will investigate further, even if no laws were broken. Which they shouldn't if this was a truly private enterprise.
Yep, we need more Clinton investigations. There haven't been enough. There must be something there and if we just keep looking surely we'll find it this time.
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Old 5th November 2017, 10:42 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Nope, that principle is enshrined in US law.
So? Using the law to justify your hypocrisy isn't impressive.
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Old 5th November 2017, 10:43 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Suddenly democrats find open process and ethical behavior of party officials to be none of anyone's business who isn't a member of said party.

I hope none of them have made statements of criticism over how the GOP runs.

I'm starting to realize there are certainly two parties in American politics: the party in power and the party not in power. Their faces may change, but their behaviors and positions quickly align to their current status.

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I see you're joining Hercules with this straw man.
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Old 5th November 2017, 10:50 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
Translation: a private organization can only behave in ways which I deem are acceptable. Once the do something I don't like, their status as a private organization is no longer relevant.
No, the translation is, we have laws addressing some things about private organizations, but not everything.


Originally Posted by Tony View Post
So? Using the law to justify your hypocrisy isn't impressive.
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Old 5th November 2017, 10:57 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Just as I don't know what exact forms of collussion may have taken place between Trump Campaign personnel and Russia, Russian hackers or Wikileaks.....we don't know if the DNC engaged in any behavior that may have given Hillary and unfair advantage over Bernie.

We have a right to know. Don't you agree?

A right to know what exactly.

As you say, you don't know if the DNC did anything wrong.

So you want an investigation to try and find something ... anything ... because you have "a right to know".

This is a formula which would seem to justify any investigation of anything, anywhere, for no particular reason at all.

Is that really the way you believe these things should be done?

I'd like to have an investigation of the NRA. And Archer Daniels Midland (well, more of them). Also Cargill, and maybe Hobby Lobby (well, more for them, too).

Nothing specific, but we definitely deserve to know.

You with me on those?
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Old 5th November 2017, 11:32 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
"Presumption" is trying to exacerbate conflict in someone else's party while ignoring the problems in your own.
Presumptive is dictating to me what my party affiliation is (incorrectly, I might add).

Quote:
Except I specifically said that not being a member of the RNC, it's not my problem.
We're not discussing the RNC. You brought it up as a way to guilt-by-association/th qoque.

I cannot stress enough how you did so with fatuous presumption and it was comically erroneous.

One more kind of personal attack that skates by rule 0 all the time here.

Quote:
Because you have no standing to complain. Maybe after you take that beam out of your own eye?
As a human being likely to be impacted by their decisions, yes I do.

You have no standing to unilaterally dictate to me what I may or may not find interesting or comment on. One wonders where "pretentious, snobbishly superior liberals" imagery comes from...

Quote:
Straw-man. The Russian modus operandi isn't to create new rifts but to exacerbate existing rifts, real and perceived.
The straw man was you declaring my sources are Russian when it's actually Donna Brazile.

Quote:
Seems you have plenty to fret about without manufacturing problems for someone else's party.
I hope that smug tone satisfies you more than achieving political momentum...ever again.

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Old 5th November 2017, 11:34 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I see you're joining Hercules with this straw man.
You see no evidence of reflexive denials?

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Old 5th November 2017, 12:07 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No, the translation is, we have laws addressing some things about private organizations, but not everything.
It's funny that you're hiding behind the law, but you should know better than to try to pass off that BS here. I doubt you would suddenly be fine with discrimination if the law allowed it, so let's dispense with such tripe as it being a "private organization".

If the DNC wants to be taken seriously, it shouldn't be rigging it's elections or defending its fascist behavior in the guise of it being a "private organization". If they continue to act they like, they deserve a president like Trump.
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Old 5th November 2017, 12:12 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
It's funny that you're hiding behind the law, but you should know better than to try to pass off that BS here. I doubt you would suddenly be fine with discrimination if the law allowed it, so let's dispense with such tripe as it being a "private organization".

If the DNC wants to be taken seriously, it shouldn't be rigging it's elections or defending its fascist behavior in the guise of it being a "private organization". If they continue to act they like, they deserve a president like Trump.
I do think private organizations should be allowed to discriminate and do what the DNC did.
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Old 5th November 2017, 12:28 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Suddenly?

I would think that Republicans would be scrambling to fix their system to it couldn't be hyjacked by racist, populist morons ever again, but instead they seem to be standing by while the likes of Gorka and Bannon take over. Your ship is going down and instead of getting life rafts in the water, you're pointing at our ship looking for flaws that don't exist.

Bad? In my opinion catastrophically so, but RNC problems are RNC problems. Not my concern unless I join that party.

Which makes me think your concern is not really about issues with the DNC, but that you just want to pound on the "Hillary is bad, very very bad" meme to distract from the catastrophy that Trump is while also creating/compounding fractures within the DNC.

You know, just like the Russians would want you to do. Hey, maybe someday they will give you a medal for it.
Is Delphi a Trump supporter? Or even a Republican? From what I've seen of their posts it seems unlikely to me. Of course they're welcome to clarify but I think your assumptions are wrong and that Delphi has a point.
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Old 5th November 2017, 01:14 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I do think private organizations should be allowed to discriminate and do what the DNC did.
Ok. Atleast you're consistent.
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Old 5th November 2017, 01:21 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
Is Delphi a Trump supporter? Or even a Republican? From what I've seen of their posts it seems unlikely to me. Of course they're welcome to clarify but I think your assumptions are wrong and that Delphi has a point.
You see, what had happened was...

I disagreed.

I am not uttering the proper shibboleth or pass phrases to indicate that i hew to the doctrinal beliefs of progressive orthodoxy and liberal dogma.

It's the exact same behavior I witnessed as a Christian. You're a beloved "brother-in-christ" one day, and a "devil-worshipper" the next depending on whether you toe the line.

So I can't possibly just be an independent-minded progressive who is (legitimately and properly) concerned with the machinations of his most closely-aligned political institution.

No, I simply must be a Trump-loving, card-carrying GOP member who is momentarily suppressing their Benghazi tourettes.

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Old 5th November 2017, 01:40 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Presumptive is dictating to me what my party affiliation is (incorrectly, I might add).
Are you a member of the Democratic party? Yes or no.

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
We're not discussing the RNC. You brought it up as a way to guilt-by-association/th qoque.
I brought it up as an example of what I'm not doing with a private political party I don't belong to. An example I'm encouraging you and others to follow.

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I cannot stress enough how you did so with fatuous presumption and it was comically erroneous.

One more kind of personal attack that skates by rule 0 all the time here.
Incorrectly identifying your political affiliations is a personal attack? Hyperbole much?

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
As a human being likely to be impacted by their decisions, yes I do.
You may personally be impacted by the design of the next iphone or the plot of the next Star Wars movie, does that give you rights in those decision making processes too?

No. Because you're full of crap. You want those rights? Join the Democratic party.

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
You have no standing to unilaterally dictate to me what I may or may not find interesting or comment on. One wonders where "pretentious, snobbishly superior liberals" imagery comes from...
One wonders why I assume you're not a member of the DNC.

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
The straw man was you declaring my sources are Russian when it's actually Donna Brazile.
Since I never declared your sources to be Russian, that is another straw-man.

Keep it up! You can almost always beat the man of straw! Almost.

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I hope that smug tone satisfies you more than achieving political momentum...ever again.
I don't think opening up the Democratic party to the criticisms of people who do not belong to the Democratic party and who actively oppose it's ideals is likely to help. I think a much better idea is to leave that to Democrats, who have a personal vested interest in success and who are much more likely to identify ways to unite us and establish procedures that we, meaning other Democrats, believe are fair.

If you are a member of the Democratic party, then you should participate in that party and address your concerns there. Discussing it with conservatives on an internet message board will not help. If you are not a member of the Democratic party, then please butt out.
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Old 5th November 2017, 01:44 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
So? Using the law to justify your hypocrisy isn't impressive.
Except there is no hypocrisy. We should obey the law, we should not discriminate, we should leave the workings of private institutions to the leadership of those institutions so long as they don't break the law.
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