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Tags shooting incidents , Texas incidents

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Old 5th November 2017, 04:42 PM   #81
Noztradamus
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Wow. You are right. If the perp did not have a gun then there would be...wait, what?
Unicorns farting rainbows?
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Old 5th November 2017, 04:43 PM   #82
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Some freaky white dude who got kicked out of the Air Force

Devin Kelley

They point out that apparently there are suspicions he could have been an atheist

Sick....Sick....Sick heathen


https://heavy.com/news/2017/11/devin...patrick-kelly/
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Old 5th November 2017, 04:45 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Not if the ones that are targeted for disarming are the ones that are most likely to snap and go on shooting sprees. Notably the ones that have mental issues known about by family and friends such as serve depression or anger, but never have it reported to the authorities.
Certainly goes without saying, the trick would be getting that done.
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Old 5th November 2017, 04:47 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
That's because it was utterly wrong.
Oops, that was a reply to a slightly earlier post.
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Old 5th November 2017, 04:49 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
How exactly?
Because criminals will always have guns.

Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Wow. You are right. If the perp did not have a gun then there would be...wait, what?
Sure, when the government asks for the perps gun Iím sure heíll hand them over.

Then we can all become fish in a barrel, good job! Thanks but no thanks
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Old 5th November 2017, 04:53 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Again, I believe he is offering sympathy, not solution. Can't you people understand this basic fact ?

Oh, we get it. It's just that, with as frequently as this **** happens in America, the sympathy thing is wearing a little thin. People like me start reading those worthless messages as, "I'm sorry that I have and will continue to refuse to do anything that might reduce the frequency of these events."
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Old 5th November 2017, 04:55 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by logger View Post

Then we can all become fish in a barrel, good job! Thanks but no thanks
You already are fish in a barrel. Pretty much describes this church.

The cost of the so-called freedom to own firearms is appalling to most of the world. Yes, I get you don't care.
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Old 5th November 2017, 04:55 PM   #88
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Can there be any more doubt that the USA is a sick society?
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Old 5th November 2017, 04:56 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Because criminals will always have guns
That's like saying criminals will always have bombs, therefore we should make it legal to build and possess bombs.
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:00 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
Oh, we get it. It's just that, with as frequently as this **** happens in America, the sympathy thing is wearing a little thin. People like me start reading those worthless messages as, "I'm sorry that I have and will continue to refuse to do anything that might reduce the frequency of these events."
There is time for the sympathy, and there is time for solution. Lack of the second doesn't mean you should bitch about the first. Especially right after the act. That makes you sound like you actually disagree with the sympathy.
Yes, US should do something. But US shouldn't stop expressing sympathy, even if it means 'sending prayers'.
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:01 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
They point out that apparently there are suspicions he could have been an atheist
Actually, no, they contrast that he used to teach Bible studies with that he also appeared to link to a number of Atheist pages so as to point put that it's unclear what, if any, religious beliefs he had.
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:02 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Because criminals will always have guns.
I disagree. Criminals will want to have guns. It might be hard for them to get them. It might make them suspicious while trying to get them. They might get caught getting them or having them illegally.
Some of the criminals will in the end get guns. More of them will find another way. But still it would have some effect.
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:09 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
You already are fish in a barrel. Pretty much describes this church.
Actually, I am not but this church certainly was.
Quote:
The cost of the so-called freedom to own firearms is appalling to most of the world. Yes, I get you don't care.
Actually, I do care that the rest of the world enjoy being in a barrel having no control of what happens to them.

Last edited by logger; 5th November 2017 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:10 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
That's like saying criminals will always have bombs, therefore we should make it legal to build and possess bombs.
Only if you live in fantasy land. Iíd rather live in reality.
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:14 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by The Sparrow View Post
LOL, and if someone had heroically managed to stop this guy you would say God was working through him.

Looks like he might have.

Quote:
Authorities revealed that a heroic and unidentified citizen in the church ďgrabbed his rifle and confronted the suspect,Ē who was armed with a ďRuger AR assault type rifle.Ē The local citizen pursued the suspect, who ran off the road and crashed and was found deceased in his vehicle. ďWe donít know if it was a self inflicted gunshot wound or if he was shot by our local resident who engaged him with gunfire,Ē authorities said.
Of course, it might have been better if God had sent him just a bit sooner.
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:16 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
I disagree. Criminals will want to have guns. It might be hard for them to get them. It might make them suspicious while trying to get them. They might get caught getting them or having them illegally.
Some of the criminals will in the end get guns. More of them will find another way. But still it would have some effect.
You’re not understanding the fact that we have hundreds of millions of guns in this country, they will never ALL be confiscated and I would fight that with every fiber of my being. at this time in our countries history it’s more important to focus on mental health, that would be a great start in solving some of these tragedies. The gun grabbers will never get what they want, too many on both sides of the isle want the protection of a firearm.

Last edited by logger; 5th November 2017 at 05:19 PM.
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:18 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
There is time for the sympathy, and there is time for solution. Lack of the second doesn't mean you should bitch about the first. Especially right after the act. That makes you sound like you actually disagree with the sympathy.
Yes, US should do something. But US shouldn't stop expressing sympathy, even if it means 'sending prayers'.

I disagree. There is a pattern here. The sympathy, repeatedly expressed by the people with the power to change things, rings ever more hollow with each incident. Their continued refusal to do anything cheapens the message.

Let the people who actually care offer sympathies. Folks like Paul Ryan do not, as evidenced by their complete inaction.

When the people with the power to change things offer only words, but no action, they clearly don't care to do a damn thing. They should just shut the **** up and get to work.

Last edited by Cl1mh4224rd; 5th November 2017 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:24 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Vixen, however, was claiming that your actual All Saints' Day was today (5th November).

The reason I'm surprised by this is that the distinction between Hallowe'en (31st October) and All Saints' Day (1st November) is a crucial point in the Meredith Kercher murder which she claims to be an expert on.
Ahh...was not aware of any Knox connection or links to previous threads.
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:27 PM   #99
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Quote:
There is time for the sympathy, and there is time for solution
It seems that it is never time for a solution.
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:29 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Certainly goes without saying, the trick would be getting that done.
Doing it seems to be remarkably easy in other countries. It's convincing people in the US that it can be done that is hard.

Part of that is countering the entire "Guns are good" and "Guns protect" message that the NRA and others keep giving. In fact we know that you are more likely to be killed by a gun if you own one than if you don't.

Now yes I know that gun owners groups try and counter this with "But guns save lives, gun owners use their guns to save their lives over two and half million times a year!" but think about this for a moment. If gun owners really did have to use their guns 2.5 million times a year to protect their lives, why are they more likely to be killed than non-gun owners who don't? Does it mean that through some crazy fluke in the universe that gun owners get attacked more then 2.5 million times more than non-gun owners, do gun owners put themselves into more dangerous situations because they have a gun and so undertake more risky behavior resulting in more attacks on them, or might these self reported numbers be inflated by gun owners who are using their guns in situations were their lives aren't actually threatened?

We also know that domestic violence victims are five times more likely to be killed if their abuser has access to a gun, even when it is the victim's gun! That means that a woman who is the victim of domestic abuse actually increases her odds of being killed by her abusive partner if she buys a gun bringing one into the household! We also know Domestic Violence calls where the abuser is armed with a gun is responsible for the largest number of murders of police officers.

And yet the solution is easy. Increasing the vetting of gun owners.

Here to gain a licence to own a gun you have to have 2 non family referees who have known you for at least two years and a family referee who will all confirm that you are able to own a firearm. You also have to show that you understand and can perform basic gun safety, and that you have proper lockable storage for your guns and ammo.

Just by following that much of our gun controls, the US would start to see a decline in gun deaths, but we know it won't happen because any restrictions are considered to much of a restriction by the gun lobby.
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Last edited by PhantomWolf; 5th November 2017 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:34 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
It seems that it is never time for a solution.
That's because of the whole... "It inappropriate to talk about Gun Control right after a mass shooting happens" thing, but because these are now happening at a rate of nearly one a day with the larger ones happening every couple of weeks, it's always "inappropriate to talk about Gun Control"
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:36 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
Let the people who actually care offer sympathies. Folks like Paul Ryan do not, as evidenced by their complete inaction.

When the people with the power to change things offer only words, but no action, they clearly don't care to do a damn thing. They should just shut the **** up and get to work.
Yes. Ryan and his ilk (the majority of people in government) are lying sacks of dog ****. It's weird then that you would give such people more power over what weapons Americans can wield.
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:40 PM   #103
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Internet is saying the killer was dishonorably discharged from the Air Force. I believe that would bar him from being able to buy a gun legally. Be interesting to find out which illegal route he took to acquire a weapon.
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:41 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Doing it seems to be remarkably easy in other countries. It's convincing people in the US that it can be done that is hard.

Part of that is countering the entire "Guns are good" and "Guns protect" message that the NRA and others keep giving. In fact we know that you are more likely to be killed by a gun if you own one than if you don't.

Now yes I know that gun owners groups try and counter this with "But guns save lives, gun owners use their guns to save their lives over two and half million times a year!" but think about this for a moment. If gun owners really did have to use their guns 2.5 million times a year to protect their lives, why are they more likely to be killed than non-gun owners who don't? Does it mean that through some crazy fluke in the universe that gun owners get attacked more then 2.5 million times more than non-gun owners, do gun owners put themselves into more dangerous situations because they have a gun and so undertake more risky behavior resulting in more attacks on them, or might these self reported numbers be inflated by gun owners who are using their guns in situations were their lives aren't actually threatened?

We also know that domestic violence victims are five times more likely to be killed if their abuser has access to a gun, even when it is the victim's gun! That means that a woman who is the victim of domestic abuse actually increases her odds of being killed by her abusive partner if she buys a gun bringing one into the household! We also know Domestic Violence calls where the abuser is armed with a gun is responsible for the largest number of murders of police officers.

And yet the solution is easy. Increasing the vetting of gun owners.

Here to gain a licence to own a gun you have to have 2 non family referees who have known you for at least two years and a family referee who will all confirm that you are able to own a firearm. You also have to show that you understand and can perform basic gun safety, and that you have proper lockable storage for your guns and ammo.

Just by following that much of our gun controls, the US would start to see a decline in gun deaths, but we know it won't happen because any restrictions are considered to much of a restriction by the gun lobby.
One thing that these mass shootings have in common is these people doing this where they think there are no guns, we would all agree they are cowardly people, so Iím not interested in disarming the law abiding, Iím interested in arming the law abiding. People need to understand the government isnít going to be there to save you.
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:41 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Youíre not understanding the fact that we have hundreds of millions of guns in this country, they will never ALL be confiscated and I would fight that with every fiber of my being. at this time in our countries history itís more important to focus on mental health, that would be a great start in solving some of these tragedies. The gun grabbers will never get what they want, too many on both sides of the isle [sic]want the protection of a firearm.
I understand that gun addicts will never surrender their guns, no matter how many people are slaughtered every day. Seriously, today is day 309 of 2017 and you've had 307 mass shootings plus innumerable 'minor' incidents where three or fewer people have died. But when will Americans ask yourselves the hard questions about your gun culture? The 95% of the rest of the world just doesn't have this kind of murder rate - when do you all say enough is enough?
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:47 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Agatha View Post
I understand that gun addicts will never surrender their guns, no matter how many people are slaughtered every day. Seriously, today is day 309 of 2017 and you've had 307 mass shootings plus innumerable 'minor' incidents where three or fewer people have died. But when will Americans ask yourselves the hard questions about your gun culture? The 95% of the rest of the world just doesn't have this kind of murder rate - when do you all say enough is enough?
Gun addicts? Thatís interesting.

But I donít think you understand, giving up my guns isnít going to make me safer. The government coming for them, isnít going to make me safer.
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:58 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
Internet is saying the killer was dishonorably discharged from the Air Force. I believe that would bar him from being able to buy a gun legally. Be interesting to find out which illegal route he took to acquire a weapon.

Or the entirely legal route of buying from a dealer at a gun show.

Originally Posted by Tony View Post
Yes. Ryan and his ilk (the majority of people in government) are lying sacks of dog ****. It's weird then that you would give such people more power over what weapons Americans can wield.

I'm not suggesting they be given more power. I'm suggesting that they start using the power they already have.
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Old 5th November 2017, 06:02 PM   #108
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Some reports this perp was an alt left wing Antifa member.
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Old 5th November 2017, 06:04 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
One thing that these mass shootings have in common is these people doing this where they think there are no guns, we would all agree they are cowardly people, so I’m not interested in disarming the law abiding, I’m interested in arming the law abiding. People need to understand the government isn’t going to be there to save you.
I think that we saw in Las Vegas that if a shooter wants to take out a large number of people with little to no threat to themselves, they'll find a way to do so. A shooter is always going to have an advantage over those they target, whether those people are armed or not. Again, think about it. Police Officers and Soldiers regularly go up against armed people. They work on tactics and systems to minimise their own risks in doing so. Shooters are quite capable of the same.

Add to that, that the US has been arming more and more people over the last nearly 40 years. We're not seeing a decrease in these incidents, we're seeing an increase in them. Other countries where who has access to certain firearms has been tightened have seen dramatic declines in multiple and mass shootings.

I also agree with this... "I’m not interested in disarming the law abiding." What I am interested in is that those that are armed are in fact the law abiding, and also the responsible, and that they remain so while they have access to firearms. I have zero issue with a law abiding person who is responsible and mentally sound having a firearm.

What I do have a huge problem with, are those that are mentally unsound, suffer paranoia, serve depression, have intoxicant issues and addictions, or have anger issues having access to fire arms, because these are the people that snap and going on a shooting rampage.

Gun Control is not about banning all guns, it is about controlling who gets access to guns. By controlling for the dangerous criminals, the unstable, intoxicated, and angry people, then you make sure that those that aren't dangerous, unstable or angry can still have access to and use of firearms to use in a peaceful and lawful manner.

Honestly, I'd rather that a felon convicted of money laundering or some other non-violent offence was allowed to have a gun over someone with no criminal convictions who regularly gets plastered every friday night and goes on an angry tirade about the rest of the world keeping him down and being against him, because the second guy is the more likely to start shooting people!
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Old 5th November 2017, 06:04 PM   #110
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You are right, I don't understand.

I don't understand how America accepts a murder rate of 4.88/100,000 when in the Anglosphere Canada has a rate of 1.68/100,000, the UK has a rate of 0.92/100,000 and Australia has a rate of 0.98/100,000.
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Old 5th November 2017, 06:06 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Some reports this perp was an alt left wing Antifa member.
Let me guess, these "reports" are from Alt-Right sources, because no-one else uses the term "alt left" since there is no such thing as the "alt left"
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Old 5th November 2017, 06:08 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
Or the entirely legal route of buying from a dealer at a gun show.
Buying through a private sale would still be illegal for him, just not usually for the seller. I'm wondering if it's a private sale, a straw purchase or even a stolen gun. Heavy.com indicates that he was showing off one of his weapons on social media a week before the shooting so it doesn't seem like he was being secretive about it.
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Old 5th November 2017, 06:17 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
It seems that it is never time for a solution.

It's such a stupid talking point, for two reasons: 1) as you allude to, the frequency of these incidents somehow manages to reset the countdown on when it's a good time to have that talk, and 2) any length of time sufficient to satisfy the talking point naturally reduces the sense of urgency or need for any action, providing an easy argument against, because "it's been so long since the last mass shooting; things are fine right now".

Utterly manipulative.

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Old 5th November 2017, 06:17 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
Or the entirely legal route of buying from a dealer at a gun show.
I'm fairly certain that gun possession by a dishonorably discharged veteran (if he was) is illegal unless their civil rights are restored. This would mean there is no "entirely legal route of buying from a dealer at a gun show".

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Old 5th November 2017, 06:19 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
Buying through a private sale would still be illegal for him, just not usually for the seller.
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I'm fairly certain that gun possession by a dishonorably discharged veteran is illegal unless their civil rights are restored. This would mean there is no "entirely legal route of buying from a dealer at a gun show".

And who's job is it to make sure the dishonorably discharged don't own a firearm?

How does that saying go? "It's only illegal if you get caught."

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Old 5th November 2017, 06:22 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
I'm not suggesting they be given more power. I'm suggesting that they start using the power they already have.
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Old 5th November 2017, 06:22 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Because criminals will always have guns.



Sure, when the government asks for the perps gun Iím sure heíll hand them over.

Then we can all become fish in a barrel, good job! Thanks but no thanks
Try not to step in the brains of the five-year-old child victim of this shooting on your way to the range next time.
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Old 5th November 2017, 06:23 PM   #118
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Color me very surprised that a DD disqualifies a person from owning guns. However, the Air Force has confirmed he was a member but not the condition of his discharge.

Alt-left? Antifa? Atheist? The usual suspects will want you to think so. Far more likely is that there was some sort of love triangle for which he blamed the church.
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Old 5th November 2017, 06:24 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
And who's job is it to make sure the dishonorably discharged don't own a firearm?
If it's by passing legislation to make it illegal; Congress.
If it's by conducting searches of homes of paroled felons to ensure compliance with the law; probation officers.
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Old 5th November 2017, 06:25 PM   #120
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Someone come get me if we ever get to that brief window when we can talk about preventing these things and people still give enough of a **** to have a conversation.

Because not politicizing these events has such a great track record of not ending up with more walls being decorated with peoples' brains.
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