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Old 9th November 2017, 05:14 PM   #1
MrFliop
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When did we get to the point that Christianity=Whiteness?

When did we get the point that Caucasions and Christians mean the same thing. Christians come from every ethnic group on the planet and significant populations of Christians can be found on every continent from every racial group.

Also Christianity is not something that espoused from European culture, it started and spread throughout the Middle East and North Africa before reaching Europe. Furthermore numerous quotes in the New Testament speak to the equality of all human "races". Plus, in case you weren’t aware already, white people are religiously diverse with a great number being followers of non Christian religions and many who aren’t religious at all.

So why, when a white shooter commits a crime, must we immediately refer to him as a “white Christian terrorist” when there’s a good chance he might not be Christian at all.

Also I’m tired of seeing people say stuff like “If he was white he’d not be labeled a terrorist, but if he were Muslim he would”. Um, news flash, there are many Muslim countries around the world that have populations that are considered Caucasian or White. Sure you could argue that that the government and media are biased against Muslims when calling them terrorists but not when they’re white cause they done that many times.
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Old 9th November 2017, 08:26 PM   #2
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American citizens can and do use whatever terminology that they want to, but the FBI has a definition of terrorism and terrorists which is entirely independent of the religion or race of the perpetrator(s).
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Old 9th November 2017, 08:30 PM   #3
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If I describe someone as a "white Christian" (I probably wouldn't have occasion to be that reductive, but hypothetical), that does not equate those two words. In fact, using both words means that one has decided both words are necessary. It would only be if I used one of the two words in the expectation that others would automatically assume the other that I would be equating them.

If someone uses one or both words incorrectly, that's an entirely separate issue of inaccuracy and has nothing to do with general usage.
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Old 9th November 2017, 10:37 PM   #4
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Not sure why they deserve the titles

Just call them all what they are. Scumbag terrormongers.

The saying what type is just advertising and helping them send whatever screwed up message the are throwing in people's faces.

But obviously this doesn't mean not going after any groups etc

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Old 10th November 2017, 01:22 AM   #5
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Quote:
When did we get to the point that Christianity=Whiteness?
"We" haven't.

It appears you are attempting to speak on behalf of the entire planet, and your generalisation is feeble, misleading, and laughable. Go stand on a cross roads in Kampala or Lusaka, Johannesburg or London, and hold up a sign saying "christian = white". You won't find a single person who has ever heard that proposition.
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Old 10th November 2017, 02:14 AM   #6
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Terrorists come in any race and either gender...


L to R: Che Guavara (26 July Movement), Ulrike Meinhof (Red Army Faction), Abubakar Shekau (Boko Haram), Assata Shakur (Black Liberation Army)
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Old 11th November 2017, 11:21 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Terrorists come in any race and either gender...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0u0kwd21l7...evara.jpg?dl=1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/d9w08shlu5...inhof.jpg?dl=1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/kg8wx5p8bq...hekau.jpg?dl=1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/31xj4a0ntf...hakur.png?dl=1
L to R: Che Guavara (26 July Movement), Ulrike Meinhof (Red Army Faction), Abubakar Shekau (Boko Haram), Assata Shakur (Black Liberation Army)
Louis Posada Carriles, Orlando Bosch (both: Coordination of United Revolutionary Organizations)
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Old 11th November 2017, 11:24 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Not sure why they deserve the titles

Just call them all what they are. Scumbag terrormongers.
Because labeling and the correct placing of people into the proper demographics is super important guys.
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Old 12th November 2017, 08:34 AM   #9
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Caucasian Christian missionaries setting forth to convert the continents of brown natives with the cooperation of colonialist government policies with the goal of improving the lives and culture of the "savages."

The notion was that it was the responsibility of the advanced nations to raise the lot of the lesser, backward cultures. There was a term for this that included the word "white."

So this is one way Christianity became associated with Whiteness.
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Old 12th November 2017, 09:02 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by MrFliop View Post
When did we get the point that Caucasions and Christians mean the same thing. Christians come from every ethnic group on the planet and significant populations of Christians can be found on every continent from every racial group.

Also Christianity is not something that espoused from European culture, it started and spread throughout the Middle East and North Africa before reaching Europe. Furthermore numerous quotes in the New Testament speak to the equality of all human "races". Plus, in case you weren’t aware already, white people are religiously diverse with a great number being followers of non Christian religions and many who aren’t religious at all.

So why, when a white shooter commits a crime, must we immediately refer to him as a “white Christian terrorist” when there’s a good chance he might not be Christian at all.

Also I’m tired of seeing people say stuff like “If he was white he’d not be labeled a terrorist, but if he were Muslim he would”. Um, news flash, there are many Muslim countries around the world that have populations that are considered Caucasian or White. Sure you could argue that that the government and media are biased against Muslims when calling them terrorists but not when they’re white cause they done that many times.
Christianity was forced on Europeans a few thousand years ago and they became the majority of Christians. They converted darker races into the religion but the majority of xtians are white.
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Old 12th November 2017, 09:34 AM   #11
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Were Europeans forced and the "darker races" converted?
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Old 12th November 2017, 11:40 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Were Europeans forced and the "darker races" converted?
Effectively, yes although it wasn't "a few thousand years ago" as Cainkane1 stated.

In 312CE. the Roman Emperor Constantine I converted from his polytheistic belief in the Roman Gods, to Christianity, and so effectively formed the Holy Roman Church (Roman Catholicism). In 380CE, Catholicism became the state religion of the Roman Empire by the decree of Emperor Theodosius I. This effectively forced Christianity on all his subjects throughout Roman Europe (whether they liked it or not).
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Old 12th November 2017, 12:02 PM   #13
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In answer to the OP, probably at around the time Islam conquered the main christian towns in the Middle East and Africa leaving only Rome and Constantinople.

Once the East-West schism occurred the Christianity most people are familiar with was confined to Europe and whitewashed. Not out of inherent racism but because for some odd reason people will always assume their god looks like them.
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Old 12th November 2017, 12:33 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
In answer to the OP, probably at around the time Islam conquered the main christian towns in the Middle East and Africa leaving only Rome and Constantinople.

Once the East-West schism occurred the Christianity most people are familiar with was confined to Europe and whitewashed. Not out of inherent racism but because for some odd reason people will always assume their god looks like them.
So now we celebrate "Christ"mas with Yule logs and evergreen pines on the winter solstice and Jesus' birth on the vernal equinox by observing the miracle of bunnies laying eggs.

We have a truly schizophrenic belief system in the west.

Gallic and Germanic-Nordic peoples were subjected to the same carrot-and-stick social control as Africans and other native peoples. Also, some of the subjugating groups were at various points considered "not white." In fact those (sometimes) non-whites subjugated the (undeniably) whites to Christianity.

FUN!

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Old 12th November 2017, 12:51 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Christianity was forced on Europeans a few thousand years ago and they became the majority of Christians. They converted darker races into the religion but the majority of xtians are white.
Is this so? Huge numbers of Africans and South Americans are christian.
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Old 12th November 2017, 01:12 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Is this so? Huge numbers of Africans and South Americans are christian.
I've met evangelical teenagers who claim Catholics aren't Christian, so that would eliminate a lot of Latin America.
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Old 12th November 2017, 02:04 PM   #17
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To be fair, Yule logs and the Easter Bunny are pretty much US traditions. Some of which have leached back to Europe, but that dominant.
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Old 12th November 2017, 02:27 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
To be fair, Yule logs and the Easter Bunny are pretty much US traditions. Some of which have leached back to Europe, but that dominant.
Yule logs are almost certainly a remnant of Gemanic Paganism and the Easter Bunny was introduced by Lutherans (again Germanic), though there's no evidence of that symbolism. I think it's rather evident that it fits a more nature-oriented spiritualism (spring/fertility) and has no theological connection to Christ, however.

I'm not sure if the U.S. observes these traditions more than Europe, but it is not the origin point. Quite the other way around. Oddly enough, the whole Germanic-Pagan infused Christmas observance became popular in the U.S. after the world wars.

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Old 12th November 2017, 02:31 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by MrFliop View Post
When did we get the point that Caucasions and Christians mean the same thing. Christians come from every ethnic group on the planet and significant populations of Christians can be found on every continent from every racial group.

Also Christianity is not something that espoused from European culture, it started and spread throughout the Middle East and North Africa before reaching Europe. Furthermore numerous quotes in the New Testament speak to the equality of all human "races". Plus, in case you weren’t aware already, white people are religiously diverse with a great number being followers of non Christian religions and many who aren’t religious at all.

So why, when a white shooter commits a crime, must we immediately refer to him as a “white Christian terrorist” when there’s a good chance he might not be Christian at all.

Also I’m tired of seeing people say stuff like “If he was white he’d not be labeled a terrorist, but if he were Muslim he would”. Um, news flash, there are many Muslim countries around the world that have populations that are considered Caucasian or White. Sure you could argue that that the government and media are biased against Muslims when calling them terrorists but not when they’re white cause they done that many times.
How about "we" treat them the same way, so if an Arab immigrant who plows his car into a crowd is considered a terrorist, then a white neo-nazi who plows his car into a crowd - say, in Charlottesville VA. - also be considered a terrorist?

As for when "we" got to the point where Christian = white...um, I have no clue where you're getting that from. If anything, it's atheism that I consider to be "white". Granted, I'm speaking as a person in the US here...
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Old 13th November 2017, 02:20 PM   #20
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To be serious, the connection between Christianity and Whiteness and Islam and Blackness goes back a 1000 years or so. It predates modern-era racial thought by maybe 500 years. But the modern notion of race in America, though obviously deeply tied to the TA slave trade, really has its roots in the growing suspicions against Jews and Muslims who converted in the 15th century. They were thought to have "impure blood", were enslaved to an extent especially in Iberia, and could never truly become Christian. This idea was carried along by colonialists.

Whiteness and blackness ultimately go back to the four humours theory: Whites live in cooler areas, thus they have cooler humours and are more thoughtful and reflective. Blacks on the other hand are more ferocious and hot-blooded. (That wasn't necessarily a moral judgment, mind you. The ancients understood virtues differently from us.)
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Old 13th November 2017, 02:30 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba View Post
To be serious, the connection between Christianity and Whiteness and Islam and Blackness goes back a 1000 years or so. It predates modern-era racial thought by maybe 500 years.........
That may or may not be so, but it ignores the fact that huge numbers, possibly the majority, of christians on the planet right now are black. Check the figures here.
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Old 13th November 2017, 03:27 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
That may or may not be so, but it ignores the fact that huge numbers, possibly the majority, of christians on the planet right now are black. Check the figures here.
Sure. But these social constructs play by very strange rules. Facts matter bess than you'd think. Also, note that depending on the time and place, North Africans, Turks, Arabs etc could be considered "Black". Often there was a moral scale connected to the skin tone, with darker being understood as signifying low moral worth.
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Old 13th November 2017, 04:52 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba View Post
Whiteness and blackness ultimately go back to the four humours theory: Whites live in cooler areas, thus they have cooler humours and are more thoughtful and reflective. Blacks on the other hand are more ferocious and hot-blooded. (That wasn't necessarily a moral judgment, mind you. The ancients understood virtues differently from us.)
As an aside, black supremacists in the US often argue somewhat the opposite - the "sun people" of Africa were prosperous and able to foster cooperation and peace, while the "cave people" of Europe grew savage and cruel as they were forced to compete for scarce resources.
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Old 14th November 2017, 06:17 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
That may or may not be so, but it ignores the fact that huge numbers, possibly the majority, of christians on the planet right now are black. Check the figures here.
Since when do facts inform racism?

Keeping blacks out of their colleges was the major source of politicizing evangelical Christians after all.
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Old 14th November 2017, 06:41 AM   #25
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(all of this comes from Wikipedia, so...YMMV - certainly depends on your definition of 'Christian')

The USA has the largest number of Christians (approx. 230 million) , but even if we assume that they are all white (they definitely aren't, but let's go with it) then that's only about 10% of the world population of Christians.

Brazil, Mexico, Philippines, Nigeria, DRC, Ethiopia, Colombia, South Africa, Argentina and Kenya accounts for 52% of the world Christian population

<barring arguments about how accurate the counts are, and what you consider to be 'white'>

add in a few more (Tanzania, China, India etc.) and you're soon over 70%.

The numbers seem reasonable, though it would take a lot of work to verify the overall accuracy, and based on that, the majority of Christians are not, judging purely on country of residence, 'white'
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Old 14th November 2017, 06:57 AM   #26
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All of the above is a part of why I am not at all religious. Silly is silly and conversion by force sucks weasels. That, and the obvious fact that IF there were a god/gods then it/they clearly do not give a flying............ about their worshippers or atheists. (i.e. anyone).
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Old 14th November 2017, 08:59 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
[...] IF there were a god/gods then it/they clearly do not give a flying............ about their worshippers or atheists. (i.e. anyone).
I wonder if God follows a religion? Buddhism probably...
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Old 15th November 2017, 08:45 PM   #28
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Its all due to the prejudices people hold. Terrorism has a definition and we should label people terrorists based on the definition. A killers skin killer doesnt determine whether they are a terrorist or not.

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