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Old 22nd November 2020, 09:48 AM   #2841
TellyKNeasuss
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Newsflash:

The main PA case has been in the SCOTUS since before the election....
There reportedly are about 9,000 ballets that arrived after Nov. 3. Biden leads by almost 82,000 votes (and the publicly released results might not include the 9,000 late arriving ballets). My uneducated prediction is that the SCOTUS will punt on this case so as not to set any sort of precedent because it will not effect whose electors are appointed.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 09:57 AM   #2842
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Desperate ploy? After a quick review it looks to me that I pointed out a few things some seem to be missing. Things like you don't get to the SCOTUS by winning cases in lower courts etc. (I'm not sure how anyone could miss something as basic) I don't know the outcome of any such actions but I don't think it wise to dismiss them prematurely. Of course you can simply not talk about them and hope they go away.
You also don't get to SCOTUS by filing cases with no merit.

If you think Rudy et al. are filing stupid cases so they can lose them on purpose and therefore get to SCOTUS, you may be right, but only because Rudy et al. are batcrap insane.

There's no chance in hell SCOTUS will give this election, or even PA, to Trump.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 09:58 AM   #2843
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I doubt the Supreme Court will take up any of these cases. If there's one precedent that Roberts probably doesn't want to set it's that you can get the courts to overturn election results that you don't like. I suspect most of the justices understand the damage that would be done to the country and the Court if they and not the voters pick the next president.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 10:00 AM   #2844
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Ah, at last you agree it's not over in PA.
It's over for Trump in PA. He lost there, and he lost the presidency.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 10:03 AM   #2845
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I doubt the Supreme Court will take up any of these cases. If there's one precedent that Roberts probably doesn't want to set it's that you can get the courts to overturn election results that you don't like. I suspect most of the justices understand the damage that would be done to the country and the Court if they and not the voters pick the next president.
Yes, it's pretty certain they won't touch the steaming pile that Trump is generating. The election isn't even close. Why would they interfere?
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Old 22nd November 2020, 10:21 AM   #2846
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Sure, it's the one that's still before the SCOTUS about the mail in ballot deadline in PA.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sup...after-election

"The court's refusal to issue a fast-track decision does not mean it won't rule in the case. The petition asking for the court's review remains before the justices.

Therefore, the move sets up a scenario where the U.S. Supreme Court could step in to overturn the ballot extension, which was issued by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court in a ruling that essentially changed state election law, and void votes after they have been cast in a state that has the potential to decide the presidential election. "
Even if the SCOTUS ruled the extension was unlawful it would not make the election results void or even have those votes voided. The SCOTUS has already ruled that a person canít be disenfranchised if they followed a stateís instructions even if the instructions are wrong or unlawful.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 10:56 AM   #2847
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
You can't have a list of eleven. It's not done. Either add another or take away one.
STOP THE COUNT!

Dave
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Old 22nd November 2020, 10:58 AM   #2848
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
It's over for Trump in PA. He lost there, and he lost the presidency.
Not according to his crack legal team:

Quote:
The Trump campaign's lawyers said in a statement that they are "thankful" to the judge who dismissed their Pennsylvania campaign lawsuit in a scathing opinion on Saturday.

Judge Matthew Brann threw out the lawsuit and said it was attempting to disenfranchise 7 million people without providing any good reason to do so.

Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis said the decision "turns out to help us in our strategy to get expeditiously to the US Supreme Court."
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-campaig...041328497.html
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Old 22nd November 2020, 11:13 AM   #2849
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President Trump's legal team's opinion seems to run counter to that of other commentators. Are they wrong/delusional, are they just being optimistic or do they know something that the other commentators don't (like have they been tipped the wink by five or more members of SCOTUS so they know it's in the bag ?
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Old 22nd November 2020, 11:15 AM   #2850
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
President Trump's legal team's opinion seems to run counter to that of other commentators. Are they wrong/delusional, are they just being optimistic or do they know something that the other commentators don't (like have they been tipped the wink by five or more members of SCOTUS so they know it's in the bag ?
If they did, you think they would have appealed by now.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 11:16 AM   #2851
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
President Trump's legal team's opinion seems to run counter to that of other commentators. Are they wrong/delusional, are they just being optimistic or do they know something that the other commentators don't (like have they been tipped the wink by five or more members of SCOTUS so they know it's in the bag ?
I don't think they know something that the other commentators don't.

So far they have mostly shown they are wrong/delusional.

And they can't just jump to the Supreme Court. It has been discussed previously, that appellate courts take up matters of law, not so much matters of fact. I'm not sure a circuit court would even hear an appeal.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 11:22 AM   #2852
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
STOP THE COUNT!

Dave
COUNT THE STOP!!

STOP THE STEAL!!

STEAL THE STOP!!

STEAL THE COUNT!!
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Old 22nd November 2020, 12:51 PM   #2853
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
COUNT THE STOP!!

STOP THE STEAL!!

STEAL THE STOP!!

STEAL THE COUNT!!
COUNT DE MONET!!
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Old 22nd November 2020, 01:09 PM   #2854
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
President Trump's legal team's opinion seems to run counter to that of other commentators. Are they wrong/delusional, are they just being optimistic or do they know something that the other commentators don't (like have they been tipped the wink by five or more members of SCOTUS so they know it's in the bag ?
I actually think it's none of the above. I think everything they're doing is just for show, so they can tell their core believers that it's all still in doubt, they may still pull it out if they get enough donations. They want to give the minions false hope so they can bleed every last possible dollar out of them. As with so many things associated with Mr. Trump, it's all about the money, nothing more.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 01:12 PM   #2855
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Appeal filed on the PA case to the Third Circuit.

https://twitter.com/marceelias/statu...233150469?s=19
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Old 22nd November 2020, 01:17 PM   #2856
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Appeal filed on the PA case to the Third Circuit.

https://twitter.com/marceelias/statu...233150469?s=19
"But I really, really want to stay President! Come on, guys! Please?"
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Old 22nd November 2020, 01:20 PM   #2857
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
I actually think it's none of the above. I think everything they're doing is just for show, so they can tell their core believers that it's all still in doubt, they may still pull it out if they get enough donations. They want to give the minions false hope so they can bleed every last possible dollar out of them. As with so many things associated with Mr. Trump, it's all about the money, nothing more.
So here we are, trying to figure out just what sort of ridiculous scam is going on.

Is it bilking money out of donors?
Trying to pull a coup?
A legal team playing on their client's stupidity to bilk him out of legal fees?
Some sort of political manipulation that might help them in future elections?


One thing we can be certain of is that it's dishonest and disgusting.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 01:25 PM   #2858
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
So here we are, trying to figure out just what sort of ridiculous scam is going on.

Is it bilking money out of donors?
Trying to pull a coup?
A legal team playing on their client's stupidity to bilk him out of legal fees?
Some sort of political manipulation that might help them in future elections?


One thing we can be certain of is that it's dishonest and disgusting.

I'd bet it's just Trump doing what he has done all his life: just trying to bully what he wants through. Entitlement mentality is a persistent thing
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Old 22nd November 2020, 01:29 PM   #2859
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Desperate ploy? After a quick review it looks to me that I pointed out a few things some seem to be missing. Things like you don't get to the SCOTUS by winning cases in lower courts etc. (I'm not sure how anyone could miss something as basic) I don't know the outcome of any such actions but I don't think it wise to dismiss them prematurely. Of course you can simply not talk about them and hope they go away.
No, thatís wrong. You get to the SC by winning at least some cases so that thereís some valid legal arguments the SC would want to hear. Losing patently ridiculous lawsuits devoid of any legal merit that get tossed with prejudice repeatedly across the country is how you get the SC to decline hearing the case.

I donít think itís wise to get invested in this at all. And I hope they donít go away. I think this is hurting them in the GA run offs and I hope the type of character and pathetic cowardice displayed by Trump and his legal team continues to be the face of the GOP for years to come.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 01:39 PM   #2860
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So, Rudy has suggested cutting the head off the democratic leadership. Yes, this is definitely a sane individual.

Quote:
"Somehow the Democrat party was hijacked by Clinton and since then has gotten more corrupt and more corrupt and more corrupt. Somebody better cut their head off."
Jesus christ.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 01:45 PM   #2861
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Appeal filed on the PA case to the Third Circuit.

https://twitter.com/marceelias/statu...233150469?s=19
Do they not have to provide grounds for appeal? Or is it OK just to say "we didn't like the result last time, so can we have a different result?"
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Old 22nd November 2020, 01:49 PM   #2862
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Newsflash:

The main PA case has been in the SCOTUS since before the election....
What makes that the ďmain oneĒ?
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Old 22nd November 2020, 01:53 PM   #2863
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Do they not have to provide grounds for appeal? Or is it OK just to say "we didn't like the result last time, so can we have a different result?"
Yes, you arenít entitled to another bite just because you want a different outcome.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 01:54 PM   #2864
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Do they not have to provide grounds for appeal? Or is it OK just to say "we didn't like the result last time, so can we have a different result?"
As far as I understand it, they can appeal without providing grounds.

This post by DevilsAdvocate may be helpful:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=2770
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Old 22nd November 2020, 01:58 PM   #2865
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Is the appeal documentation available to download?
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Old 22nd November 2020, 01:58 PM   #2866
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Do they not have to provide grounds for appeal? Or is it OK just to say "we didn't like the result last time, so can we have a different result?"
Anyone can appeal, and in the notice of appeal they have to say why they're appealing.

I'm not as familiar with procedures at circuit courts (i.e. the appeals court) as I am at the Supreme Court. At the Supreme Court, they look at the appeal, and vote whether or not to hear the case. If they vote no, that's it. They publish a note saying that the Court denied a writ of certiorari, and there is no comment and you don't even know how the various justices voted.

At the appellate court level I'm not sure how it works. I know that you can't just waste the court's time just because you feel like it, but I don't know exactly how the process goes to weed out frivolous requests.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 02:05 PM   #2867
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Anyone can appeal, and in the notice of appeal they have to say why they're appealing.
So presumably there must be more to the appeal than just this:

https://twitter.com/marceelias/statu...150469/photo/1
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Old 22nd November 2020, 02:09 PM   #2868
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
So presumably there must be more to the appeal than just this:

https://twitter.com/marceelias/statu...150469/photo/1
At this point, I will defer to my more learned colleagues.

As far as I know, there is more supporting documentation before a judge even looks at the case, but I don't know much about it at this level.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 02:11 PM   #2869
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https://www.findlaw.com/litigation/f...-judgment.html

Quote:
...snip...

Most civil and criminal decisions of a state or federal trial court (as well as administrative decisions by agencies) are subject to review by an appeals court. Whether the appeal concerns a judge's order or a jury's verdict, an appeals court reviews what happened in prior proceedings for any errors of law. This means losing parties can't appeal a case just because they're unhappy with the outcome; they may only challenge decisions that may have resulted from errors, such as a misinterpretation of legal precedent or reliance on evidence that should have been excluded.

If you're appealing a court decision or judgment, you'll want to get a handle on how the process works. The following is an overview of court appeals.


...snip...

Appellate Briefs

The main form of persuasion on appeal is the written appellate brief, filed by counsel for each party. With this brief, the party that lost in the trial court will argue that the trial judge incorrectly applied the law. The party that won below will argue that the trial court's decision was correct. Both parties will support their positions with reference to applicable case law and statutes.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 02:19 PM   #2870
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Appeal filed on the PA case to the Third Circuit.

https://twitter.com/marceelias/statu...233150469?s=19
Filing an appeal doesn't mean the case will be heard. If the Third Circuit declines to hear it, there is nowhere else to go.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 02:35 PM   #2871
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
So presumably there must be more to the appeal than just this:

https://twitter.com/marceelias/statu...150469/photo/1
Yes. That is just the notice of appeal. That just tells the court and the other party that you are appealing. That's just the first step.

There will also be document called the "Assignment of Errors" that points out why you are appealing. That is sometimes included as part of the notice of appeal. It appears in this case that only the notice has so far been filed.

Then there will be appellant briefs filed by each side arguing why the appeal should be upheld or denied. And then maybe oral arguments.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 02:59 PM   #2872
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Filing an appeal doesn't mean the case will be heard. If the Third Circuit declines to hear it, there is nowhere else to go.
Federal circuit courts have to hear appeals (provided they a properly filed, the type of case is not exempt from appeal, the court has jurisdiction, etc.) The Supreme Court can choose whether or not to hear a case (unless the court has original jurisdiction and in small number of other special cases where it has to hear a case.)
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Old 22nd November 2020, 02:59 PM   #2873
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Do they not have to provide grounds for appeal? Or is it OK just to say "we didn't like the result last time, so can we have a different result?"
I don't think they HAVE to provide grounds for an appeal. They can just say "we don't think they got it right, we are appealing". But it helps a lot if they can spell out why they are appealing.

Saying "WE DECLARE AN APPEAL!" after being burned so hard by the decision is not going to go well.

Granted, I could be totally off about that, I'm not a lawyer and I'm getting different impressions from different lawyer-y people. But the constant take is "this lawsuit is doomed"

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Old 22nd November 2020, 03:03 PM   #2874
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Old 22nd November 2020, 03:19 PM   #2875
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
...One thing we can be certain of is that it's dishonest and disgusting.
Oh, dishonest and disgusting barely begins to cover it. It's literally the worst thing an American president has ever done to this country, indeed perhaps the worst thing any American has done to it. Usually words like that are hyperbole, intended to demonize what in hindsight will be considered merely garden-variety villainy. But in this case it's probably an understatement. I believe history will look back at this time, baffled and disgusted, and wonder how the hell we Americans could have let this happened. What the hell was wrong with us?
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Old 22nd November 2020, 03:22 PM   #2876
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Sidney Powell is to insane for the Trump campaign.

https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/stat...508418/photo/1


I wonder if the breaking point was Powell suggesting that the Senate race in Georgia was rigged, and that Collins rather than Loeffler should be in the run off.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 03:25 PM   #2877
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Filing an appeal doesn't mean the case will be heard. If the Third Circuit declines to hear it, there is nowhere else to go.
Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
Federal circuit courts have to hear appeals (provided they a properly filed, the type of case is not exempt from appeal, the court has jurisdiction, etc.) The Supreme Court can choose whether or not to hear a case (unless the court has original jurisdiction and in small number of other special cases where it has to hear a case.)
Correct me if I'm wrong, though. "Hearing" a case at the appelant level may simply consist of "I have read the briefs. Appeal denied. Go home." Of course, that's the top level summary. The actual ruling would be more like, "Here is what is wrong with everything in your briefs. Go home." (Special not to attorney Giuliani. This is not meant as a request to see more of what's in your briefs.)

In other words, the appeal can be decided solely on the contents of the briefs, without ever scheduling an actual hearing or oral arguments.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 03:34 PM   #2878
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Sidney Powell is to insane for the Trump campaign.

https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/stat...508418/photo/1


I wonder if the breaking point was Powell suggesting that the Senate race in Georgia was rigged, and that Collins rather than Loeffler should be in the run off.
Well, suggesting that the Georgia Governor and Secretary of State -- both Republicans, mind you -- took bribes to rig the election for Biden certainly couldn't have helped. Guess she won't get to "blow up" the state with her "biblical" lawsuit after all.

ETA: Actually, the more I think about it, the sadder I am that I won't get to witness Ms. Powell's lawsuit. Imagine the spectacle of the sitting GOP Governor of the State of Georgia testifying as a defendant, being accused by the White House of committing felonies to rig the election for a Democrat -- insane! Never mind the all-but-inevitable defamation countersuit the Governor would file against the WH. Even for the crazy charade that is the WH legal team, this must have been too demented to tolerate.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 03:38 PM   #2879
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, though. "Hearing" a case at the appelant level may simply consist of "I have read the briefs. Appeal denied. Go home." Of course, that's the top level summary. The actual ruling would be more like, "Here is what is wrong with everything in your briefs. Go home." (Special not to attorney Giuliani. This is not meant as a request to see more of what's in your briefs.)

In other words, the appeal can be decided solely on the contents of the briefs, without ever scheduling an actual hearing or oral arguments.
Correct. Oral arguments are not required. The court may or may not allow oral arguments and parties made choose whether to not to give oral arguments. Oral arguments are basically just a way for the court to ask questions into order make sure it clearly understands the arguments made in the briefs.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 03:51 PM   #2880
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Sidney Powell is to insane for the Trump campaign.

https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/stat...508418/photo/1


I wonder if the breaking point was Powell suggesting that the Senate race in Georgia was rigged, and that Collins rather than Loeffler should be in the run off.
Trump's legal team seems to be kraken apart.
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