ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 9th March 2020, 02:03 PM   #241
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 4,720
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
It would be very nice to see them campaigning together again.
If Biden is going to be the nominee, Obama might as well go all in.

He's the subtext of Biden's campaign. If Obama shows his face and Biden starts putting ads out comparing job growth under his man Obama vs Trump, that could give him a boost.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2020, 03:22 PM   #242
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I just wonder whether a Biden presidency would be enough to stamp out the embers of the proto-authoritarian right.
Except that nothing the Democrats do, and no one they nominate, is going to stamp those out. What do you imagine Bernie would do to do so? He's everything they hate about progressives. He's liable to annoy them and push them rightward even more.

The problem is the culture of the US right these days. These are large-scale social movements that can't be stopped by the opposition. It has to be changed from the right... but then how? The only way the left could affect that would be with sweeping policies so successful and beneficial to GOP voters that they can't deny their appeal and just calm the hell down and learn to love big government. And if you think that's not pie-in-the-sky, I've got a really nice bridge in Brooklyn for you to look over.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2020, 03:23 PM   #243
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
This sounds like a pretty wonderful deal to me, at least as I'd like to envision it playing out.

Senate Majority Leader Elizabeth Warren comes up with legislative fixes and systemic reforms that are just as progressive as they can be, given the ideological differences which exist among half a hundred Democratic Senators. She passes these reforms out of the Senate and Leader Pelosi has no trouble getting them through the House.

Subsequently, Biden throws a rubberstamp party:

I would pack up and move to this timeline in a heartbeat.
I don't know why people focus on the Presidency so much anyway. What really matters is Congress and the courts, in the end.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2020, 03:28 PM   #244
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Close, but not quite the real problem; the real problem is that both sides were really the same side all along: the bribe-taking, trickle-up-economics, let-the-peasants-eat-dirt side.
Gosh, I'm glad I don't live in your world of cynicism. It makes for great movies but sucky realities.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Emperor Bernie gonna make the SCOTUS 100 members and pack it with young, healthy DSA members that take their orders from Cuba.
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Got any polling on that?
Wow, that breakdown of rational debate came even faster than with Sid.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2020, 03:28 PM   #245
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 24,000
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I don't know why people focus on the Presidency so much anyway. What really matters is Congress and the courts, in the end.
What are the most important things those seats could deliver to you?
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2020, 03:29 PM   #246
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 24,000
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Wow, that breakdown of rational debate came even faster than with Sid.
Lets not exaggerate,
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2020, 03:47 PM   #247
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 47,665
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
What are the most important things those seats could deliver to you?
It's always weird to me how foreigners with no good understanding of the American system of government have so much unearned confidence in their understanding of American politics.

Anyway, to answer your question: Legislative traction. Control over judicial appointments. Restoration of Congressional authority delegated to the president by previous Congresses. Budget prioritization. Enough seats, and veto proof majorities. HTH. HAND!
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2020, 04:06 PM   #248
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 24,000
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's always weird to me how foreigners with no good understanding of the American system of government have so much unearned confidence in their understanding of American politics.

Anyway, to answer your question: Legislative traction. Control over judicial appointments. Restoration of Congressional authority delegated to the president by previous Congresses. Budget prioritization. Enough seats, and veto proof majorities. HTH. HAND!
So power but as a means to what policy ends?
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2020, 04:12 PM   #249
SuburbanTurkey
Philosopher
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 6,693
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Except that nothing the Democrats do, and no one they nominate, is going to stamp those out. What do you imagine Bernie would do to do so? He's everything they hate about progressives. He's liable to annoy them and push them rightward even more.
Populist unrest can have a progressive/left outlet rather than being exclusively harnessed by the right. It would help if the supposed left party of the political spectrum acknowledged that there are legitimate grievances and proposed solutions. There are very real material strains on the common American's lives. Flat wages, growing costs of necessary goods and services, collapsing infrastructure and social services. All these things are right in the liberal wheelhouse, or at least they used to be when liberals actually cared about working people.

Trump came in promising to solve the beleaguered citizens' problems. The Democratic party largely denied that any problems existed.
__________________
Gobble gobble

Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 9th March 2020 at 04:14 PM.
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2020, 04:45 PM   #250
Delvo
Дэлво Δελϝο דֶלְבֹֿ देल्वो
 
Delvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North Tonawanda, NY
Posts: 9,010
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Populist unrest can have a progressive/left outlet rather than being exclusively harnessed by the right.
And that overlap, the fact that some voters seeking a populist to solve the country's problems are willing to vote with either party to get it, also means giving voters a populist choice on the left would be exactly how to take some of them away from the right. But that's exactly what the Democrat establishment wants not to do.

Trump got in by pretending to be populist. Hillary didn't, and Biden doesn't, even pretend. Biden in particular wears his contempt for the peasants on his sleeve. "Gimme a break".
Delvo is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2020, 05:30 PM   #251
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 29,751
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I don't know why people focus on the Presidency so much anyway. What really matters is Congress and the courts, in the end.
And in particular, the Senate, which approves federal judges. If Moscow Mitch remains in control, which I expect he will, not one nominee by any Democratic President will be approved. At any level.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th March 2020, 04:45 AM   #252
SuburbanTurkey
Philosopher
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 6,693
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Hopefully, yes.

Do you sincerely believe the Roberts court will look at Sanders' most ambitious reforms (e.g. abolishing private insurance) and find them constitutional?
No, of course not. Biden's fantasy that bipartisan cooperation will somehow be on the table during his hypothetical presidency is absurd and Bernie doesn't share the delusion. This narrative has been obsolete since at least the 90's, it's time to put it away and deal with reality.

Bernie is open about the entrenched nature of US politics and is taking an explicit war footing against the right. Perhaps his idea of a mass movement of sustained grassroots pressure is a long shot, but it has more chance of success than pretending that good-faith bipartisan negotiation is a possibility. Bernie doesn't look at the Roberts court and believe the patently absurd lie about an impartial, non-partisan court. He rightly sees a political obstacle.

So yeah, Bernie's plan to pack the court is extreme. It's also the only plan dealing with the reality of the very shrewd and successful gamesmanship that the right has been playing when it comes to the SCOTUS.
__________________
Gobble gobble

Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 10th March 2020 at 04:53 AM.
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th March 2020, 05:14 AM   #253
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
What are the most important things those seats could deliver to you?
To me, not much. To America, better laws.

Quote:
Lets not exaggerate,
Hey, at least you have some sense of humour.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th March 2020, 05:17 AM   #254
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Populist unrest can have a progressive/left outlet rather than being exclusively harnessed by the right.
Sure, but this has two problems:

First of all in both cases it requires a major restructuring of the system that many would rather not see (I guess it's the Devil-You-Know principle). Second, do you think the progressive solutions would appeal to the bulk of angry Trump supporters? They seem to want government to crash and burn, while progressives seem to want more government. That seems incompatible to me.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th March 2020, 05:26 AM   #255
SuburbanTurkey
Philosopher
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 6,693
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Sure, but this has two problems:

First of all in both cases it requires a major restructuring of the system that many would rather not see (I guess it's the Devil-You-Know principle). Second, do you think the progressive solutions would appeal to the bulk of angry Trump supporters? They seem to want government to crash and burn, while progressives seem to want more government. That seems incompatible to me.
About 1/2 the country voted for Trump. 1/2 of the country are not MAGA CHUDs though. 1/2 of the country aren't Steve Miller types, or Proud Boy street brawlers, or 4chan groypers.

Some of these people are persuadable. Some of these people are more concerned about their material conditions than they are about sticking it to minorities. Some of these people will happily ride a rising tide, even if it means helping out other vulnerable people not like them.
__________________
Gobble gobble

Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 10th March 2020 at 05:27 AM.
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th March 2020, 05:28 AM   #256
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
About 1/2 the country voted for Trump.
More like 1/4th. Turnout, remember.

Quote:
1/2 of the country are not MAGA CHUDS though.
MAGA CHUDS. Ha! I assume that's a play on "mada chod", with a sprinkle of Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dweller thrown in?

Quote:
Some of these people are persuadable.
I'm not saying they're not, but in an increasingly polarized country where left and right definitely don't want the same thing, it seems very hard.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th March 2020, 05:34 AM   #257
SuburbanTurkey
Philosopher
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 6,693
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
More like 1/4th. Turnout, remember.



MAGA CHUDS. Ha! I assume that's a play on "mada chod", with a sprinkle of Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dweller thrown in?
You give me too much credit for mada chod. But yeah, I happily describe the worst elements of MAGA world as CHUDs. They aren't really human anymore, they've spent too much time in the dark.



Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I'm not saying they're not, but in an increasingly polarized country where left and right definitely don't want the same thing, it seems very hard.
In a hyper partisan world, even pulling a small fraction of the other side's support off is a major coup.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th March 2020, 05:39 AM   #258
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 5,927
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Perhaps his idea of a mass movement of sustained grassroots pressure is a long shot, but it has more chance of success than pretending that good-faith bipartisan negotiation is a possibility.
If we had seen a surge in youth turnout on Super Tuesday (just one day) I would be much less skeptical of the idea of banking our future on a sustained mass movement.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
So yeah, Bernie's plan to pack the court is extreme. It's also the only plan dealing with the reality of the very shrewd and successful gamesmanship that the right has been playing when it comes to the SCOTUS.
Not just extreme, but also unconstitutional. Federal judges ďshall hold their offices during good behaviour,Ē and the office currently held by people like Kavanaugh and Gorsuch is ďassociate justice of the Supreme Court of the United States.Ē I don't think you will find legal scholars of any standing who will affirm that sitting justices can be demoted from the high court by anything other than the impeachment process used on Samuel Chase.
__________________
"Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th March 2020, 09:28 AM   #259
Suddenly
No Punting
 
Suddenly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Not In Follansbee
Posts: 4,002
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post

Some of these people are persuadable. Some of these people are more concerned about their material conditions than they are about sticking it to minorities. Some of these people will happily ride a rising tide, even if it means helping out other vulnerable people not like them.
This is basically how it worked until Clinton and NAFTA. It isn't new.

It may be that Biden has a better chance of winning overall because this isn't 2016, but if we follow the assumption that it at all depends on reluctant rust belt Trump voters, maybe the guy who supported NAFTA and other Clinton era trade pacts isn't the guy you want.

Might be better off being a socialist.
Suddenly is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th March 2020, 09:42 AM   #260
Elagabalus
Philosopher
 
Elagabalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,726
Maybe just someone with a little bit of charisma.
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd April 2020, 08:16 PM   #261
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 32,221
Because people would rather suffer, and let other people suffer, than admit they made a mistake.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"Itís easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.
Upchurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd April 2020, 08:30 PM   #262
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 13,644
It is Trump's election to lose...
but if he is constantly seen as acting unpresidential in a time of crisis, voters won't mind swapping him out for another model.
__________________
Ceterum autem censeo fox et amicis esse delendam.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd April 2020, 03:55 AM   #263
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 32,221
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
but if he is constantly seen as acting unpresidential in a time of crisis, voters won't mind swapping him out for another model.
Thatís where I think youíre wrong. Trump has been acting like a whiny, self-interested, spoiled brat throughout the crisis, not to mention spreading misinformation, and his approval numbers have risen to their highest point since just after the inauguration.

Maybe that will wear off as months of this thing drag on, but I doubt it. We arenít talking about people objectively evaluating Trumpís performance as a president. Weíre talking about faith.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"Itís easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.
Upchurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd April 2020, 05:43 AM   #264
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 16,330
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Thatís where I think youíre wrong. Trump has been acting like a whiny, self-interested, spoiled brat throughout the crisis, not to mention spreading misinformation, and his approval numbers have risen to their highest point since just after the inauguration.



Maybe that will wear off as months of this thing drag on, but I doubt it. We arenít talking about people objectively evaluating Trumpís performance as a president. Weíre talking about faith.
It's true.. his approval ratings have increased in some recent polls. Which is admittedly not a good sign. But....

- the approval ratings for other presidents have also gone up during times of emergency. But with Trump, even with a pandemic that could affect millions, most polls STILL have his approval ratings under water.

- some polls have already shown his "bump" in approval has started to decrease

- a recent poll showed that over 60% felt trump was unprepared for the pandemic. There does seem to be a logical disconnect there... Some voters are saying. "I approve of the president but he is screwing up". That may be a problem on election day

Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd April 2020, 05:44 AM   #265
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 28,589
Approval rating doesn't matter because Trump's has always been underwater.

He's never had a majority of support.
__________________
No, someone having reality and facts on their side does not mean they have been given an unfair advantage and it is not a bias against you. You're just wrong.
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd April 2020, 05:51 AM   #266
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 13,644
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Thatís where I think youíre wrong. Trump has been acting like a whiny, self-interested, spoiled brat throughout the crisis, not to mention spreading misinformation, and his approval numbers have risen to their highest point since just after the inauguration.

Maybe that will wear off as months of this thing drag on, but I doubt it. We arenít talking about people objectively evaluating Trumpís performance as a president. Weíre talking about faith.
Sure, plenty of people loved that he kept pissing off professional politicians and experts - but now those are the people they need.
They seriously don't want to see two hours of the Trump Show, they want to hear from Fauci and Brix.
And they don't want to hear how unfair Trump feels he is being treated when they don't have tests or jobs or hospitals bed or respirators.

Biden can fake compassion much better than Trump can.
__________________
Ceterum autem censeo fox et amicis esse delendam.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd April 2020, 05:52 AM   #267
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 30,590
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Approval rating doesn't matter because Trump's has always been underwater.

He's never had a majority of support.
The key for the GOP is to suppress voter turnout so that the keener GOP voters are the majority of those who turn out in key states because they know that if turnout is high, he won't be reelected.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd April 2020, 07:23 AM   #268
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 29,751
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Thatís where I think youíre wrong. Trump has been acting like a whiny, self-interested, spoiled brat throughout the crisis, not to mention spreading misinformation, and his approval numbers have risen to their highest point since just after the inauguration.

Maybe that will wear off as months of this thing drag on, but I doubt it. We arenít talking about people objectively evaluating Trumpís performance as a president. Weíre talking about faith.
And he was acting like that throughout the runup to the 2016 election, and won it.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd April 2020, 10:10 AM   #269
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 48,726
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
It's true.. his approval ratings have increased in some recent polls. Which is admittedly not a good sign. But....

- the approval ratings for other presidents have also gone up during times of emergency. But with Trump, even with a pandemic that could affect millions, most polls STILL have his approval ratings under water.

- some polls have already shown his "bump" in approval has started to decrease

- a recent poll showed that over 60% felt trump was unprepared for the pandemic. There does seem to be a logical disconnect there... Some voters are saying. "I approve of the president but he is screwing up". That may be a problem on election day

Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk
Over the last couple of days his "bump" in polling have pretty much vanished.
And when the horrific images from across the country start coming in, as they will, his nmber witk thake ahuge hit.
Oh he will still have that 40% who will support any Republican, abut I think the virus is going to change the whole political picture.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd April 2020, 10:11 AM   #270
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 48,726
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
And he was acting like that throughout the runup to the 2016 election, and won it.
Sorry, but I think you are underestimating the impact that the virus is going to have on the country. We have not even seen the worst of it yet.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd April 2020, 10:13 AM   #271
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 48,726
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
The key for the GOP is to suppress voter turnout so that the keener GOP voters are the majority of those who turn out in key states because they know that if turnout is high, he won't be reelected.
SO democracy in the US is dead?
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd April 2020, 10:14 AM   #272
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 48,726
I think the GOP is delbiertly pushing a
we are invincible narrative to wreck the morale of their opponents, and from some posters here it is working.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd April 2020, 12:10 PM   #273
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 16,695
Trump's overall approval rating as of today from 538:

Disapprove: 49.9%
Approve: 45.8%

Trump's coronavirus response:
Quote:
An ABC News/Ipsos poll released Friday, 47 percent of Americans approve of Trump’s coronavirus response, while 52 percent of Americans disapprove — a steep drop from the same poll taken just two weeks ago when a whopping 55 percent approved of Trump’s response.

And in Trump’s favorite survey, the Trump-skewing Rasmussen daily tracking poll, his approval rating has dropped four points in a matter of days. The last time Trump was above water in that poll was Feb. 27, when his approval was at 52 percent. But he began this week with a -5 point net unfavorability, and finishes it nine points underwater with 44 percent approving and 53 percent disapproving.
https://www.mediaite.com/news/new-po...irus-response/
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd April 2020, 12:24 PM   #274
wasapi
Penultimate Amazing
 
wasapi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 12,892
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Sure, plenty of people loved that he kept pissing off professional politicians and experts - but now those are the people they need.
They seriously don't want to see two hours of the Trump Show, they want to hear from Fauci and Brix.
And they don't want to hear how unfair Trump feels he is being treated when they don't have tests or jobs or hospitals bed or respirators.

Biden can fake compassion much better than Trump can.
Biden has felt compassion in his life, where as Trump has no idea what compassion is or feels like.
__________________
Julia
wasapi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd April 2020, 12:33 PM   #275
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 16,695
Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Biden has felt compassion in his life, where as Trump has no idea what compassion is or feels like.
The only thing Trump knows about compassion is that the word 'ass' is in it. It brings up images of Stormy and a magazine.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd April 2020, 12:34 PM   #276
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 28,526
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Trump's overall approval rating as of today from 538:

Disapprove: 49.9%
Approve: 45.8%

Trump's coronavirus response:

https://www.mediaite.com/news/new-po...irus-response/


Is there anywhere we can get a breakdown on what questions were asked in such polls?

Quote:
An ABC News/Ipsos poll released Friday, 47 percent of Americans approve of Trumpís coronavirus response, while 52 percent of Americans disapprove

I mean, does a simple yes or no question really get into the nitty-gritty of what people think of Trump, and what he's been doing?

I mean, I could see a lot of people thinking, "Okay, he's doing some of the things I want him to do, so I "approve" of his actual actions. But of course, there's a lot more that should be done, and he should have started a lot earlier!" Would someone like that be expected to vote for him?
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd April 2020, 01:03 PM   #277
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 16,695
Good questions. You'd have to see the poll questions themselves and I don't know where you can find them. Perhaps someone else does.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd April 2020, 01:06 PM   #278
turingtest
Mistral, mistral wind...
 
turingtest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Embedded, reporting from Mississippi
Posts: 4,304
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Sure, plenty of people loved that he kept pissing off professional politicians and experts - but now those are the people they need.
They seriously don't want to see two hours of the Trump Show, they want to hear from Fauci and Brix.
And they don't want to hear how unfair Trump feels he is being treated when they don't have tests or jobs or hospitals bed or respirators.

Biden can fake compassion much better than Trump can.
I saw an article a day or so ago about one of the Trump sons (the numpty one, Eric, I think) complaining that some of the networks have quit broadcasting Trump's daily "pandemic briefings," and claiming they were being unpatriotic by doing so. Sorry, chief- they aren't briefings about the pandemic anymore, they're daily slaver-fests, where guys like that My Pillow idiot take turns in a suck-up line; just substitutes for the campaign rallies your dad's bottomless ego needs and can't get right now.
__________________
I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV;
I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems
Deep Purple- "The Aviator"

Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King
turingtest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd April 2020, 01:07 PM   #279
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 47,665
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
If Biden is going to be the nominee, Obama might as well go all in.

He's the subtext of Biden's campaign. If Obama shows his face and Biden starts putting ads out comparing job growth under his man Obama vs Trump, that could give him a boost.
After eight years of Presidentin' it seems that Barack Obama has quit the life.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd April 2020, 01:09 PM   #280
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 28,589
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
SO democracy in the US is dead?
No.

It's hurt enough that I don't have full confidence in it right now. That's not the same as declaring it dead and making yet another backhanded request for someone to finally go ahead and start the revolution.
__________________
No, someone having reality and facts on their side does not mean they have been given an unfair advantage and it is not a bias against you. You're just wrong.
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:39 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.