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Old 14th July 2020, 06:48 PM   #361
Trebuchet
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10% of my first cousins are dead from coronavirus. She died on Easter Sunday while her Republican governed state was fighting to open the churches for super-spreader events.

FU, Republicans.
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Old 14th July 2020, 07:09 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Ah, sorry about that, then. I was working from an incomplete and unsourced quote. Trump is clearly wrong there. Even with my very charitable donations of estimates from back in March and April, that couldn't possibly be higher than 85%, and that's if we are also charitable about what "totally harmless" means.



In view of this added information, I retract my previous possible interpretation.



Well, that leaves the ass-pull, then.


If only someone had posted trump’s complete quote, then added a math problem with 100% of coronavirus cases equals 99% totally harmless and 1% harmed, maybe you could have envisioned it earlier.
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Old 14th July 2020, 07:18 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Wow.

This is the kind of thing that if any other president did it, people would see it as a move to improve data collection. But then again, if any other president had been in office, something vaguely like this would have been first out of the gate and functioning by April. In other words, any other president would have said "We need to make sure our data is top notch and accurate," and he would have asked the CDC to supervise development of top notch reporting capability.

As it is, it's Trump, and four months into the crisis, right as the numbers are making him look very bad, suddenly he takes interest. Why would anyone trust him?

Well, of course, there are True Believers, and always will be, but I would hope those are no more than 1/3 of the voters.

I hope.
The administration can't order this. And I doubt the hospitals will comply.
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Old 14th July 2020, 08:31 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
How do you want to bet that the daily number of new cases in the US will magically and dramatically decrease within a few days?
It doesn't matter. Trump can't hide overflowing hospitals.

If I were to bet, I'd bet we see Trump melting down more and more in the coming weeks, maybe months.
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Old 14th July 2020, 08:36 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
10% of my first cousins are dead from coronavirus. She died on Easter Sunday while her Republican governed state was fighting to open the churches for super-spreader events.

FU, Republicans.


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Old 14th July 2020, 08:39 PM   #366
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Trump says it's Obama's fault for screwing up the testing....
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.
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Old 14th July 2020, 08:43 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
The administration can't order this. And I doubt the hospitals will comply.
It also suggests Trump and his flunkies don't understand how the reporting system works.

If you are a physician or nurse practitioner who makes the diagnosis of COVID 19, or you are a lab, you would be complying with the CDC National Notifiable Diseases Surveillance System (NNDSS)
Quote:
About 3,000 public health departments gather and use data on these diseases to protect their local communities. Through NNDSS, CDC receives and uses these data to keep people healthy and defend America from health threats.

NNDSS is a multifaceted program that includes the surveillance system for collection, analysis, and sharing of health data. It also includes policies, laws, electronic messaging standards, people, partners, information systems, processes, and resources at the local, state, territorial, and national levels.
Also certain facilities like nursing homes and schools have to report specific outbreaks. One example is if your school experiences > 10% absenteeism.

Trump ordering a change in this reporting system would (like a lot of stupid great ideas Trump has) cause nothing but confusion.

I'm required by law to report all notifiable conditions. It has nothing to do with the hospitals reporting certain data. I'm not sure who Trump thinks will be providing these results. I certainly haven't gotten any letters telling me to change how I would report notifiable conditions.
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Old 14th July 2020, 09:17 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Add on the White House's campaign to undermine Fauci's credibility to that.

Still, that may not be as directly bad as, well...

Trump orders hospitals to bypass CDC in reporting Covid data, so his people see the numbers first

Looks like the official numbers for the US are about to get much more problematic, if Trump is successful. ETA - thank you SG for beating me to it.

Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
The latter part is true but let's go with the lowest estimates:

Up to 90% of infectees are not reported or detected. If that's true, then it is most likely because of absence of symptoms or mild symptons.
Known symptoms, at least. There are a couple points worth noting in particular, though, when you say this. First, it's generally agreed that deaths are almost certainly being significantly under-reported as well. For example, the surges in dead on medical help's arrival heart attacks in areas that are hit hard by COVID have generally meant that they got skipped with testing so that resources could be focused on the living. Second, at last check, even what is likely a significant majority of asymptomatic cases have been ending up with scarred lungs - which is not even remotely close to the kind of thing that's harmless, even if it's not immediately noticable. Similarly, brain damage tends to also not be as easily detectable, but is likely to be depressingly common.

99% "harmless" is utter BS.

To be clear here, my response isn't about what Trump said, but rather about the actual facts.
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Old 15th July 2020, 07:00 AM   #369
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Just seen this:

Ohio man shuns masks, dies of Covid (NY Daily News; other reports are available).

Army veteran, 37, so possibly relatively healthy, though the pics make him look a bit overweight. Hopefully didn’t infect anyone else.
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Old 15th July 2020, 07:02 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
If only someone had posted trump’s complete quote, then added a math problem with 100% of coronavirus cases equals 99% totally harmless and 1% harmed, maybe you could have envisioned it earlier.
I don't understand your point there, but I've already conceded.
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Old 15th July 2020, 07:04 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Trump says it's Obama's fault for screwing up the testing....
Yeah I heard that... just... what?
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Old 15th July 2020, 07:13 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Yeah I heard that... just... what?
tbh he's been saying this since early March (at least).

The reasoning goes that there was some FDA rule that the Obama administration had implemented which made diagnostic tests more difficult to have approved.

Of course it's complete garbage and is debunked every time it's brought up but eventually a lie becomes the truth for some people if it's repeated enough. Here's a factcheck article from March on the subject:

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/tr...navirus-tests/
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Old 15th July 2020, 09:01 AM   #373
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OK governor Kevin Stitt has covid.

He attended the Tulsa rally.

The stalwart, dimwitted Trump cultist isn't letting this little hiccup throw him off his game. "I'm not thinking about a mask mandate at all".
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Old 15th July 2020, 09:05 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
OK governor Kevin Stitt has covid.

He attended the Tulsa rally.

The stalwart, dimwitted Trump cultist isn't letting this little hiccup throw him off his game. "I'm not thinking about a mask mandate at all".
If he doesn't die then presumably he thinks it's fine and so no need for masks.

If he does die, then he's not in a position to do anything about masks.

Either way he won't be doing anything regarding a mask mandate.
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Old 15th July 2020, 09:11 AM   #375
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Speaking of dimwitted Republicans who attended the Tulsa rally and since tested positive... News about Herman Cain is scarce. Apparently he's still hospitalized. His bat **** crazy twitter feed has remained active, but not being operated by Cain.
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Old 15th July 2020, 11:16 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I don't understand your point there, but I've already conceded.
Thanks. I really don't know how you could have missed this post but here just for fun:

Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
If we take 'harmless' to be literal, sure. But if we include mild symptoms and lack of complicstions as included in 'harmless', I'm not so sure.
The President said "totally harmless." That would mean that the other 99% of Covid-19 patients escaped with ZERO harm. Totally unharmed.

Trump pulled this number out of his ass, and I cannot understand where your numbers or estimates or whatever are coming from.

Maybe write out your numbers in a table so we can follow your logic? I see you seem to be multiplying 90% and 85%, which gets me to a number quite a bit less than 99%, but I can't tell what you are saying - asymptomatic, just kinda sick, what?

Remember, the President said this idiotic thing, so the bar for you to clear if you want it to be accurate is:

100% of Coronavirus cases =

99% "totally harmless" (I'll count sick for a couple of days like a cold here, since everyone gets colds)
+1% dead / seriously ill / hospitalized / sick for weeks / lifelong health effects

Originally Posted by trump on July 4
We have tested over 40 million people. By so doing, we show cases, 99% of which are totally harmless.
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Old 15th July 2020, 11:24 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Thanks. I really don't know how you could have missed this post but here just for fun:
I probably read that way too fast and missed it. It seems to ba a growing problem with age. I was going with the earlier, incomplete quote.
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Old 15th July 2020, 11:53 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Do you mean here, or in general? Because if you mean in general, there appear to be a number of folks who take his word on the topic as gospel. Just yesterday at some self-indulgent press thingee or the other, Trump bloviated on how schools must open, and the gathered unmasked idiots applauded and nodded like . . . idiots.

My crazy catholic SiL and her family sure think he's the expert on this pandemic.
I wasn't talking about people in general, but the people whose job it is to respond to the pandemic. He has politicized things so much that I wonder if governors, cities or state health departments are maybe finally looking to what the science says re masks, reopening etc. The governor of my state is a Republican but not a total loon, and although he'll suck up to Trump in public I doubt if he's going to use anything Trump says when it comes down to, say, reopening schools. Also a lot of Republicans don't want to go to the GOP convention and some think it should be canceled. They're not taking Trump's word that it's going to disappear like a miracle anymore.
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Old 15th July 2020, 12:50 PM   #379
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Covid 19 info/data will no longer be reported to the CDC, but to the Trump administration instead. Does anyone else view this with distrust and the suspicion that the data will be manipulated to favor Trump?

Quote:
WASHINGTON — The Trump administration has ordered hospitals to bypass the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and send all Covid-19 patient information to a central database in Washington beginning on Wednesday. The move has alarmed health experts who fear the data will be politicized or withheld from the public.

The new instructions were posted recently in a little-noticed document on the Department of Health and Human Services website. From now on, the department — not the C.D.C. — will collect daily reports about the patients that each hospital is treating, the number of available beds and ventilators, and other information vital to tracking the pandemic.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/u...ronavirus.html
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Old 15th July 2020, 01:18 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Covid 19 info/data will no longer be reported to the CDC, but to the Trump administration instead. Does anyone else view this with distrust and the suspicion that the data will be manipulated to favor Trump?
Quite a few people.
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Old 15th July 2020, 02:25 PM   #381
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Texas just recorded its highest single day number of Covid 19 DEATHS, not cases. How will Trump spin this? It's only higher because we're counting more deaths? When more deaths are being counted, the number of deaths go up? We've got the greatest counting of deaths in the world!
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Old 15th July 2020, 02:33 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Texas just recorded its highest single day number of Covid 19 DEATHS, not cases. How will Trump spin this? It's only higher because we're counting more deaths? When more deaths are being counted, the number of deaths go up? We've got the greatest counting of deaths in the world!
That's why he wants to eliminate the CDC from the reporting process
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Old 15th July 2020, 02:35 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
That's why he wants to eliminate the CDC from the reporting process

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Old 15th July 2020, 03:27 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
That's why he wants to eliminate the CDC from the reporting process
How long until he declares the CDC enemies of the people?
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Old 15th July 2020, 03:28 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
How long until he declares the CDC enemies of the people?
How long before he declares himself to be the people?
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Old 15th July 2020, 04:36 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by gypsyjackson View Post
Just seen this:

Ohio man shuns masks, dies of Covid (NY Daily News; other reports are available).

Army veteran, 37, so possibly relatively healthy, though the pics make him look a bit overweight. Hopefully didn’t infect anyone else.
I think this should get a bit more notice. This is both tragic and absolutely foolish. It also plays into trump's ongoing effort -- since he can't control the Covid-19 outbreak -- to downplay it. I've even read comments here -- a lot of them -- from people who seem convinced that, unless you're elderly or have a serious preexisting medical condition, coronavirus is a pretty mild ailment. Only it's not. Medical officials continually remind people, we DON'T KNOW what the long term effects of Covid-19 are. As noted, the quotes are from the New York Daily News (which is a mostly pro-trump newspaper).

Quote:
U.S. Army veteran Richard Rose survived two tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan during his nine years in the military. The 37-year-old was tragically felled by coronavirus on the Fourth of July. Rose, who refused to wear a mask because he thought the virus was over-hyped, died just three days after being diagnosed with COVID-19 on July 1, reported WOIO-TV...“Let’s make this clear,” he wrote on Facebook, according to WOIO. “I’m not buying a mask. I’ve made it this far by not buying into that damn hype.”

His friends are trying to get his story out to others about the importance of taking the virus seriously. They are also working to dispel the notion that the virus only affects older people and those with underlying conditions. Rose’s family told WOIO that he had no known underlying conditions.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Vet from Ohio dead from Covid-19.jpg (76.4 KB, 8 views)

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Old 15th July 2020, 05:08 PM   #387
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To poke at Fauci a little, looks like the Lincoln Project has a Fauci ad made, now.
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Old 15th July 2020, 05:18 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
To poke at Fauci a little, looks like the Lincoln Project has a Fauci ad made, now.
Awesome.

I was in a car today, which is unusual in these times, listening to a local right wing yapper, and he was bemoaning the state of the government, because there was Fauci talking, and he was saying things that other people in the government weren't saying, so it was all just a mess.

The last line of the commercial is the relevant retort to that yapper. "Who should you trust, the dope, or the doctor?"



And of course the yapper went on to field a bunch of calls about why masks weren't important and would damage your health and.......fill in the rest of the BS.
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Old 15th July 2020, 06:21 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Covid 19 info/data will no longer be reported to the CDC, but to the Trump administration instead. Does anyone else view this with distrust and the suspicion that the data will be manipulated to favor Trump?


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/u...ronavirus.html
Looking into my crystal balls, I see a massive uptick in pneumonia cases/deaths, and a miraculous drop in COVID-19 cases.

I think this is called the Putin Plan.
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Old 15th July 2020, 11:46 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Looking into my crystal balls, I see a massive uptick in pneumonia cases/deaths, and a miraculous drop in COVID-19 cases.

I think this is called the Putin Plan.
Yup, and Putin learned that in the USSR. And let me guess: Republicans will let Trump get away with this with nary a word.
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Old 16th July 2020, 07:24 AM   #391
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
To poke at Fauci a little, looks like the Lincoln Project has a Fauci ad made, now.

From The Late Show with Stephen Colbert:

Rick Wilson from The Lincoln Project squirms talking anti-Trump Super PAC



YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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Old 16th July 2020, 07:52 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
From The Late Show with Stephen Colbert:

Rick Wilson from The Lincoln Project squirms talking anti-Trump Super PAC



YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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Ouch !
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Old 16th July 2020, 08:02 AM   #393
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Georgia governor Kemp just banned cities and counties from requiring masks.

What on earth is it with Republicans??
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Old 16th July 2020, 08:08 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Georgia governor Kemp just banned cities and counties from requiring masks.

What on earth is it with Republicans??
They like to protect people's individual freedoms.


Unless of course it's a woman's freedom to choose, a member of a minority's freedom to live without prejudice and so on....
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Old 16th July 2020, 09:20 AM   #395
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
From The Late Show with Stephen Colbert:

Rick Wilson from The Lincoln Project squirms talking anti-Trump Super PAC



YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Good to know.
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Old 16th July 2020, 09:35 AM   #396
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The corruption we don't see, (at least it's not in the news yet but I suspect it will be):

FB page of Heather Cox Richardson: Trump tied hospitals sending their COVID data to one of his cronies if they want to get any Remdesivir for their patients, literally.
Quote:
... HHS Protect, and TeleTracking. Last Friday, the Department of Health and Human Services announced that, beginning today, hospitals should report daily information about coronavirus cases not through the CDC system, which has been in place for 15 years, but rather through the other two.
We all know why, but here's something else:
Quote:
HHS Protect is developed by Palantir Technologies, a data-mining firm that works with the Pentagon and law enforcement agencies, including Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). Peter Thiel, a billionaire Trump supporter, co-founded the company, which last week confidentially filed paperwork with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission to go public. An initial public offering (IPO) would have made bucketloads of money in any case, but a federal contract to compile coronavirus information is a sweet addition to its portfolio.

The TeleTracking system also raises suspicions of a financial deal. On June 3, Chair of the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor & Pensions Senator Patty Murray (D-WA) wrote to the director of the CDC, Dr. Robert Redfield and the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response at the Department of Health and Human Services, Dr. Robert P. Kadlec, to ask why HHS had awarded a $10 million no-bid contract to create this data system that duplicated the one the CDC already had. Why indeed?
So $10 million plus a bonus when the company goes public. This is why Trump has so much support from the GOP. Got a friend in need of a no-bid contract based on a promise rather than a history of providing that product or service? Go see Trump.

Kudos to Patty Murray, BTW.

Then there is the stick to make hospitals comply:
Quote:
There is, in the letter shifting data collection, a peculiarly nasty stick. Underlined on the first page of the instructions is that “We will no longer be sending out one-time requests for data to aid in the distribution of Remdesivir or any other treatments or supplies. This daily reporting is the only mechanism used for the distribution calculations, and the daily [sic] is needed daily to ensure accurate calculations.”
Also, they've already turned off the CDC page that was reporting the COVID data.
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Old 16th July 2020, 10:08 AM   #397
carlosy
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Also, they've already turned off the CDC page that was reporting the COVID data.
https://www.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases

Works for me.
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Old 16th July 2020, 10:30 AM   #398
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If you thought that the wackos in Palm Beach County, Florida were a lot of fun, check out this mask meeting in Utah. [nbc news] It had to be cancelled due to the room being "packed with unmasked people" and boy did they bring the crazy.

Originally Posted by nbc
“We are perpetuating a lie,” one woman who said she has five grandchildren said. “COVID is a hoax. It’s a lie. It’s a political stunt," The Salt Lake Tribune reported.

A mother suggested that masks cut down on a person’s oxygen, and a father said COVID-19 is no different than the flu, according to the Tribune.

Another parent of two children, ages 10 and 3, said she is concerned that wearing a mask would teach her older child to fear the world and that both of her kids would not learn proper socialization if their faces were covered, the Tribune reported.

“It’s going to rewire their brains,” the mother said. “I’m especially not going to send my son back to have his mind broken.”
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Old 16th July 2020, 10:50 AM   #399
Aridas
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Originally Posted by carlosy View Post
Restored after serious objections, if I read correctly, albeit not going to be updated further?

Quote:
Representatives of the CDC did not immediately respond to CNBC’s request for comment. Later in the day, the CDC restored the site’s previous dashboards with data through Tuesday, saying: “This file will not be updated after July 14, 2020 and includes data from April 1 to July 14.”
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Old 16th July 2020, 10:54 AM   #400
Meadmaker
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Withering criticism from Maryland's governor (who is Republican).

https://theweek.com/speedreads/92586...virus-response



I could almost feel sorry for Donald Trump. He's in over his head. He was unqualified for the job and should never have been elected, and he just doesn't have the skills for this sort of thing. However, I don't actually feel sorry for him. If he were to recognize the problem, and resign like he ought to, then maybe I'd have a tiny bit of respect for him. Needless to say, that won't happen. It's pure fantasy. It would be a completely unprecedented move, and besides, the very pathology that makes him so awful at disaster response is what would prevent anything like it from happening. So, we're stuck with him until January 20, at least.

And that's unfortunate.
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