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Old 4th November 2020, 03:15 PM   #1
The Atheist
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Democrats: How to Move Forward

For god's sake, will someone take the Democratic Party and shake it like a goddamned baby!

They failed to learn the lesson of picking an unelectable candidate in 2016 and damned near pulled it off again.

Anyone familiar with my posts over the past couple of years will know I was exhorting them to pick anyone BUT Biden, so, of course they did.

Trump is the most unpopular president person ever, and should be as easy to beat as a dead horse, yet the Dems appear to have nearly pulled off the impossible twice in a row.

Aside from other obvious problems - like Latino love for Trump - the standout to me is black men deserting the party of Barack Obama and voting Republican. Muhammad Ali's words about the slave masters getting slaves to vote for slavery are echoing in my head like a mind-worm right now. How the hell did this happen?

Those should be the core of Dem support, and the fact they aren't shows how badly they've been failed by the party.

It looks to me like young white voters have saved Biden from extreme embarrassment - the party will need to up its game immensely or they will keep failing.

Start by kicking out Pelosi - she is the only person on the planet less popular than Trump, yet is still the face of the party itself.
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Old 4th November 2020, 03:19 PM   #2
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2024 is going to be awful. A R senate and a looming recession is going to hamstring Biden badly.
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Old 4th November 2020, 03:25 PM   #3
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Assuming Biden win and Republican senate, it will be 6 years of Obama all over again. Republican permaobstruction.

This is one of reasons why I think USA's rot cannot be stopped, only at most slowed down. Your system is inherently dysfunctional. Maybe it was great in 1800s, but is is not so hot nowadays.
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Old 4th November 2020, 03:45 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
2024 is going to be awful. A R senate and a looming recession is going to hamstring Biden badly.
This is actually close to my optimal outcome. Except for the recession, obvs.

But it's kinda weird to think of it this way.

On the one hand, the president is supposed to be hamstrung by Congress. He can only enforce the laws and execute the policy that Congress has set forth. Executive orders have limited scope. The treaties he signs are worthless unless Congress ratifies them. He can spend no money except as authorized and allocated by Congress. Even some of the presidential authority we take for granted is actually delegated to him by Congress. It's properly theirs, and they can take it back whenever they want.

On the other hand, within the constitutional limits of his office, the President's authority is absolute, and Congress can't do anything at all to abridge it.

And on the other hand, it's a misconception to think of the President as being the author of change, hamstrung by a recalcitrant Congress. Really, it's the other way around: Congress authors the changes, and it's up to the President to carry them out. A recalcitrant or obstructionist President can certainly hamstring Congress. Executive orders do have some scope, after all.

What exactly do you imagine President Biden wanting to do, that Congress could obstruct him on? Make new legislation? Not his job in the first place. Seek public support for new legislation? Congress has no power to stop him.
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Old 4th November 2020, 03:52 PM   #5
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I do suspect 2 years of gridlock could allow the Rs to retake the house, resulting in only a few "legislative achievements" for Biden that still ultimately screw over most of us.

Which sets the table nicely for the next Trump.
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Old 4th November 2020, 03:56 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post

What exactly do you imagine President Biden wanting to do, that Congress could obstruct him on? Make new legislation? Not his job in the first place. Seek public support for new legislation? Congress has no power to stop him.
What I mean when I say heís hamstrung, and note that while itís not constitutionally mandated, Biden is the head of one of the two parties in a two party system. So I would expect him to do his best to enact the agenda of the party the majority of the country voted for. With the senate procedures the way they are, they wonít even consider the agenda to vote on. Even the stuff that makes it through the House, the other half of Congress.
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Old 4th November 2020, 04:07 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
This is one of reasons why I think USA's rot cannot be stopped, only at most slowed down. Your system is inherently dysfunctional. Maybe it was great in 1800s, but is is not so hot nowadays.
I'm very inclined to think the same.
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Old 4th November 2020, 04:14 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
What I mean when I say heís hamstrung, and note that while itís not constitutionally mandated, Biden is the head of one of the two parties in a two party system. So I would expect him to do his best to enact the agenda of the party the majority of the country voted for. With the senate procedures the way they are, they wonít even consider the agenda to vote on. Even the stuff that makes it through the House, the other half of Congress.
It's literally not his job to enact the agenda of the majority-vote party. His actual job is to carry out the agenda enacted by Congress.
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Old 4th November 2020, 04:22 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's literally not his job to enact the agenda of the majority-vote party. His actual job is to carry out the agenda enacted by Congress.
Did I not write that itís not constitutionally mandated? I thought I did.

I mean, saying the head of the party doesnít try to enact the agenda of the party heís the head of is a pretty hot take. I donít think itís reflective of reality.
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Old 4th November 2020, 04:23 PM   #10
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This is an interesting discussion, but I wonder why no one has pointed out the obvious fact that Biden is quite elderly and may perish while in office, which would leave Kamala Harris in the office of President of the United States of America.

I have a feeling that she might be a good deal more effective than Ol' Handsome Joe. He's a really nice guy, and always has been a really nice guy. I'm certainly not hoping for his death, but I'd like to see Kamala behind the wheel for a spell before she runs in 2024. She's not a nice guy, in fact, she isn't any kind of guy. She's a kickass woman who kicks ass, and I want to see her do exactly that.
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Old 4th November 2020, 04:31 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
[rant]
Lemme point out two things, though:

1. Biden is set to become one of four candidates to beat an incumbent.

2. Biden, at least according to his speech, is set to receive more votes than any other candidate in US history.

Yeah, would be nice to have a new Obama and do a clean sweep, but we didn't, so they went with what they had, and it looks like it might just be enough.
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Old 4th November 2020, 04:32 PM   #12
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What the Democrats (and Republicans really) need to understand is that the nation is moderate. The progressive wing of the Democratic Party needs to realize that they are out of step with the country if they want to hold the presidency. Obama was right, Americans don't want revolutions. The progressives need to realize that they can get some of what they want but the electorate isn't going to go for their full agenda.
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Old 4th November 2020, 04:39 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
Did I not write that itís not constitutionally mandated? I thought I did.

I mean, saying the head of the party doesnít try to enact the agenda of the party heís the head of is a pretty hot take. I donít think itís reflective of reality.
Which is why I like the separation of powers, and having separate powers held by different parties.

"Now's our chance to do a bunch of stuff that half the country won't like" seems like a terrible approach to government, in my opinion.
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Old 4th November 2020, 04:41 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's literally not his job to enact the agenda of the majority-vote party. His actual job is to carry out the agenda enacted by Congress.
And if the elected representative is acting in anything approaching good faith, they will recognize that they represent those who voted against them as well as those who voted for them.

One major party in the US has not simply forgotten this principle, but explicitly repudiates it.

Every effort to compromise, every attempt to see another way has come exclusively from the left for the last twelve years at least.
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Old 4th November 2020, 04:44 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Which is why I like the separation of powers, and having separate powers held by different parties.

"Now's our chance to do a bunch of stuff that half the country won't like" seems like a terrible approach to government, in my opinion.
Sure thatís fine. Working with the opposition party to compromise is also well within the presidents powers also. As a backup option.

But I donít think the R will, hence my original comment that heíll have difficulty.
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Old 4th November 2020, 05:21 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
For god's sake, will someone take the Democratic Party and shake it like a goddamned baby!

They failed to learn the lesson of picking an unelectable candidate in 2016 and damned near pulled it off again.
I've never much understood this line, when the GOP leadership is mostly odious googly-eyed troglodytes. Sorry, Biden (and Hillary as well) seems pretty relatable to me - he's the old guy sitting on his front porch waving hello to everyone, as opposed to Trump, who puts up fences, shrieks at kids on his lawn, and calls the cops the black UPS guy trying to deliver his medicine.

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Trump is the most unpopular president person ever, and should be as easy to beat as a dead horse, yet the Dems appear to have nearly pulled off the impossible twice in a row.
Well, to be honest, his voters are people who vote party (this is common among dems as well), open bigots, and conspiracy theorists who are disconnected from reality to the point where they believe an conspiracy about how dems are child killers from, of all places, 8chan. A lot of people still insist that he's a wildly successful businessman (he's not) who loves the common man (he hates them), and can be trusted (without his inheritance he'd be a three-card monty dealer who was chopped up and deposited into several dumpsters because he tried to scam some mob boss or other)

Wanna know why elected republicans all call him an idiot in private? It's because his voters are largely fanatics.

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Aside from other obvious problems - like Latino love for Trump - the standout to me is black men deserting the party of Barack Obama and voting Republican. Muhammad Ali's words about the slave masters getting slaves to vote for slavery are echoing in my head like a mind-worm right now. How the hell did this happen?
The latter is, at this point, pretty much marginal. The former is based on a confusion arising from people that think of "Latino" as a cohesive group. As I've told others, that's like saying Australians are basically like folks from Scotland. They all speak English, right?

Fact is, Cubans in Florida are very different than Guatemalans in Cali politically - and rightfully so, given where these groups live and come from, and how each party treats them.

Quote:
Those should be the core of Dem support, and the fact they aren't shows how badly they've been failed by the party.
Nah - the strongest two groups measured have been, and still are, black racially, black American ethnically, and Jewish by religion. Native Americans, of course, are almost never broken out as anything in polls, thus that "measured" caveat.

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It looks to me like young white voters have saved Biden from extreme embarrassment - the party will need to up its game immensely or they will keep failing.
Hah, no.

Quote:
Start by kicking out Pelosi - she is the only person on the planet less popular than Trump, yet is still the face of the party itself.
Mitch McConnell. There's another one, right there, in US federal office. And that's almost always going to be true of house and senate leaders, and congress in general - people love *their* congressfolk, but hate everyone else's.

(I could say a lot of things about why dems shriek about Pelosi while giving Chuck Schumer a pass, but I 've made my point regardless).

As to what dems need? Someone who can "charm" swing voters, while rallying the base.

Last edited by Mumbles; 4th November 2020 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 4th November 2020, 05:26 PM   #17
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Hopefully everyone drops the 2016 sour grapes. Tossing R voters a bone and appealing to them is the only way forward. They’ll get smoked in 2024 if he can’t fend off a recession, and he’ll need bipartisan support from a GOP that will suddenly remember how bad deficits are to do it.
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Old 4th November 2020, 05:32 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
Hopefully everyone drops the 2016 sour grapes. Tossing R voters a bone and appealing to them is the only way forward. They’ll get smoked in 2024 if he can’t fend off a recession, and he’ll need bipartisan support from a GOP that will suddenly remember how bad deficits are to do it.
He won't get GOP support, nothing serious at least. You are correct, deficits will suddenly matter again. However, they will only use the deficit as excuses to cut social safety programs, regulations, environmental protections and everything else that is good for the country. When democrats refuse to destroy the country for them, they'll complain that the democrats aren't compromising. We've seen in before. Republicans consider getting everything they want while giving up nothing in return is the only compromise that's feasible.
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Old 4th November 2020, 05:34 PM   #19
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Yeah it’s a problem he’ll have to figure out. There’s an immediate need for a stimulus package, probably be a preview of things to come.
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Old 4th November 2020, 05:39 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
They failed to learn the lesson of picking an unelectable candidate in 2016 and damned near pulled it off again.



Anyone familiar with my posts over the past couple of years will know I was exhorting them to pick anyone BUT Biden, so, of course they did.
If Biden wins, it will be b/c he pulled the Rust Belt back into the blue column. Which Democratic candidate was more likely to pull this off?
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Old 4th November 2020, 05:39 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
...and conspiracy theorists who are disconnected from reality to the point where they believe an conspiracy about how dems are child killers from, of all places, 8chan. A lot of people still insist that he's a wildly successful businessman (he's not) who loves the common man (he hates them), and can be trusted (without his inheritance he'd be a three-card monty dealer who was chopped up and deposited into several dumpsters because he tried to scam some mob boss or other)


This right here is the problem with all these "What the Dems must do!" plans. When a significant part of the problem is that a significant percentage of the Pro-Trump (or pro-GOP) vote is based on people believing things that are just factually wrong, and they resist all attempts to educate them as to what reality actually is, then no plan will work. You could nominate the Greatest Democrat Ever To Live, and 20+% of the population would believe it when someone tells them that they're secretly making babies eat kittens to fatten them up so they can feed the babies to puppies that they plan to skin to make a fur coat that they then plan on tossing into a polluted river somewhere.

We need a solution to that problem.

The problem is, we here at ISF (and JREF before it) have been trying to find a solution to that problem for decades now, and we've completely failed. Despite all the efforts of the skeptic community, CT thinking has done nothing but grow, and has now grown so large that it is dominating far too much of the political discourse.
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Old 4th November 2020, 05:41 PM   #22
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If the election was by popular vote, the OP would have a point. ...
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Old 4th November 2020, 05:46 PM   #23
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As of the time of this post, this "unelectable" candidate has gotten more votes than any presidential candidate in US history, party notwithstanding.
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Old 4th November 2020, 05:49 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
As of the time of this post, this "unelectable" candidate has gotten more votes than any presidential candidate in US history, party notwithstanding.
What's really amazing about this factoid is that the US population has actually decreased in the past decade.
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Old 4th November 2020, 06:00 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What's really amazing about this factoid is that the US population has actually decreased in the past decade.
?

2010 308,745,538 9.71%
2020 332,639,000 7.74%



Did you mean "voting population" or some other metric?
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Old 4th November 2020, 06:08 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
?

2010 308,745,538 9.71%
2020 332,639,000 7.74%



Did you mean "voting population" or some other metric?
I think I must have.
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Old 4th November 2020, 06:10 PM   #27
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I read a longish post by a liberal here. He was obviously overly pessmistic when he wrote it (he thinks Trump will win which I personally doubt), but he does make a few good points:

Quote:
3. Stop concentrating on tiny constituencies. Gender dysphorics constitute only 0.6 percent of the population, yet the ******* progs talk about them as though they were 60 percent. Progs want everyone within the 99.4 percent majority to list their pronouns, just to make an annoying, unpleasable faction within the 0.6 percent feel good about themselves. (There are many within the 0.6 percent who find this demand to be ridiculous.)
Quote:
Robin DiAngelo elected Trump. Everyone who enabled that bitch elected Trump. Everyone who wants to give me a predictable feminist harangue because I used the word "bitch" just now elected Trump.

Everyone who made excuses for looters and rioters elected Trump.

When Ari Melber, just a week before the election, gave airtime to a Black writer hawking a new book titled Why White People Should All Go to Re-Education Camps, Ari cast a vote for Trump. (Okay, that wasn't the actual title of the book, but it might as well have been.) When Jamelle Bouie absurdly claimed that Black people freed themselves during the Civil War -- because Bouie cannot tolerate the thought that members of the hated White race might have died for a noble cause -- Bouie cast a vote for Trump. The liberals who refused to denounce Bouie's obvious anti-White bigotry all cast votes for Trump.
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Old 4th November 2020, 07:23 PM   #28
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He honest America, when this...



... is the mentality of hard core Republican supporters, you know that you are dealing with morons - at least 1/3 of US voters would vote Attila the Hun, or Adolph Hitler, or Charles Manson for president if they were on the Repugnican ticket.

The world has been laughing at your stupidity since 2016, and we're still laughing at you.
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Old 4th November 2020, 07:40 PM   #29
Mader Levap
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
They failed to learn the lesson of picking an unelectable candidate in 2016 and damned near pulled it off again.
What the hell you are talking about? Pretty much every serious democratic candidate would have similar result (or worse). It is physically impossible for democrats to do much better than they did.

Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What's really amazing about this factoid is that the US population has actually decreased in the past decade.
?
2010 308,745,538 9.71%
2020 332,639,000 7.74%
Saying easily verifiable falsehood... hmm, like president, like his supporters. This is why "assume it is all lie until proven otherwse" is very good policy when discussing anything with deplorables.

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
He honest America, when this...

(image of republicans with "I'd rather be a russian than democrat" shirt)

... is the mentality of hard core Republican supporters, you know that you are dealing with morons
Hey, to be fair, Russia is corrupted authoritarian oligarchy with el presidento of biggest banana republic of world that can do anything, including killing of opposition figures and assassinations.
Pretty much wet dream of rethuglicans. This is why they are so chummy with ruskies lately.
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Old 4th November 2020, 09:31 PM   #30
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Stop telling yourself fairytales.

Like it or not, Trump IS the most popular President since Lincoln for Republicans. And Republicans are way more willing to hand over private data to the campaign of their guy, which makes it much easier to target undecided and identify never-Trumpers. And, of course, they don't care about canvassers getting sick from Covid.

Also, unlike Democrats, Republicans have a propaganda channel that is the most popular TV in the US.

At this point here is no reason whatsoever to claim that Democrats did something fundamentally wrong.
Except that they choose not to just lie 24/7.
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Old 4th November 2020, 09:35 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Except that they choose not to just lie 24/7.


And that, barring a whole lot of Americans getting their heads out of their asses, is what the Dems will have to do to make headway against the tidal wave of ********. Start lying just as much to these ******* morons. Create as many ******** "scandals" as they can, and push these scandals on every platform they can co-opt.

**** rationality, basically.
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Old 4th November 2020, 09:46 PM   #32
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I can't think of anything that they should do that there's any chance distinguishable from zero that they will do. They're too adamantly dedicated to their goal of losing everything they can and handing it all over to the Republicans.
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Old 4th November 2020, 09:48 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
For god's sake, will someone take the Democratic Party and shake it like a goddamned baby!

They failed to learn the lesson of picking an unelectable candidate in 2016 and damned near pulled it off again.
There are a lot of problems that the Democrats have (as well as problems with the American political system, and society in general). But, I don't think the Democrats have a problem with picking 'electable' candidates.

Consider that the Republicans have several built-in advantages... an urban/rural divide that gives an advantage in both the Electoral college and the senate. Gerrymandering that affects their ability to win the house. And voter suppression that hurts democrats everywhere. Add in Russian election meddling, the republican ability to attract big money donors, and a general ignorance and bigotry inherent in a huge segment of the American population. Plus, republicans have been much more willing to break laws.

And, of course, once democrats have one disadvantage, you kind of get a feedback loop that causes more disadvantages... an unfriendly senate and electoral college gives republicans more control over appointing judges, which allows voter suppression and gerrymandering to be ruled constitutional, which gives the republicans even more ability to suppress votes, giving republicans an even greater advantage.

Under those conditions, even the greatest politician will have troubles winning. Yet despite that, they have still managed to win the popular vote in back-to-back elections. Its like complaining about how bad your team's quarterback is because he can't win a game, but his team is playing with only 10 men on the field.

Consider this... in 2008, you had Obama as the democratic candidate, a guy who was very charismatic and a pretty good speaker. The country was in the middle of both a huge recession AND an unpopular war. The republican was another old guy, and he had picked a very questionable VP candidate. In theory, the election should have been a landslide, and the democrats did have a very comfortable win in the electoral college, but it was 53%-46% in the popular vote, which isn't that far off the current popular voter margin.

Do I have a solution? Yes... play hardball with the republicans. They've been dicks for the past decade or so. Be prepared to cram through legislation (even without republican support). At the first opportunity, expand the supreme court, and use the opportunity to push laws against gerrymandering and voter suppression. Grant statehood to Puerto Rico and Washington DC (which will likely be solid democrat, at least for the next few election cycles). That will help level out the playing field, and since republicans can't seem to win in a fair fight, it will keep them out of power for at least a few years.
Quote:
Anyone familiar with my posts over the past couple of years will know I was exhorting them to pick anyone BUT Biden, so, of course they did.
There is no guarantee that if they had picked anyone else that that alternative candidate would have won.
Quote:
Trump is the most unpopular president person ever, and should be as easy to beat as a dead horse, yet the Dems appear to have nearly pulled off the impossible twice in a row.
Here's the problem... his popularity has never exceeded 50%. However, his popularity has also never fallen more than 35%. Multiple recent presidents have all ended up with approval ratings below that, at least at some point in their tenure. When you have such a fixed 'floor' of idiotic voters, its a lot easier to build up to a victory.

Biden became the nominee in April. In the months/years before that, Trump had called neo-nazis "fine people", had children locked in cages, was impeached, signed a very unpopular "tax cuts for millionaires" bill, and the U.S. was getting started on its first wave of the pandemic. Trump's popularity should have cratered before the election, but it stuck around 40%. That's not the sign of a healthy, rational-thinking electorate.
Quote:
Aside from other obvious problems - like Latino love for Trump
Keep in mind that much of that 'latino love' comes from Cuban ex-pats. They have a particular aversion to "socialism". If the democrats picked someone that was to the left of Biden, its possible that they would have gotten even less support among the latino community.
Quote:
If you look at the article, it states that despite Trump getting 'record numbers' of support among black men, Biden still managed to pick up roughly 80%.

Its not good that the Democrats are losing some of this support, but in some ways this seems to be more of a gender thing.
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Old 5th November 2020, 01:21 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I read a longish post by a liberal here. He was obviously overly pessmistic when he wrote it (he thinks Trump will win which I personally doubt), but he does make a few good points:
Yuck, the stench of (cis white, in this case) grievance politics.

So happens I remember when Bell Curve defender Andrew Sullivan made the same argument about Bouie's supposedly outrageous claim. Bouie's response is here - but to summarize, abolition was actually a project that lasted over a century, and the slaves themselves were at the heart of it.

Shouldn't surprise anyone to discover that the main objectors to chattel slavery are, in fact, the slaves, but somehow certain people transform this into "white people played no role at all, because they're all monsters", despite the fact that Jouie says no such thing.

Reminds me of people who got mad when the movie Selma didn't portray JBJ as the White Savior chosing instead to highlight the civil rights protestors as the center of the civil rights movement.

Frankly, if this is one of the good points of the piece, I feel no need to bother with the rest of it. Suffice it to say that anyone that read what Bouie wrote, and said "Screw this, I'm going with the white supremacist that let a pandemic rage out of control!" is not someone the democratic party can hope to reach without actively abandoning their base.

(But, just to rub it in...did I miss the part where the dems chose to spend a majority of their time on trans people? I know that *some* activists do that - and would you like to know what most of these activists have in common? - but it was a pretty minor issue as far as the campaign went, all told.)

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Old 5th November 2020, 01:24 AM   #35
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It has nothing to do with any individual person's 'electibility'. Anyone who has the D by their name is automatically a communist antichrist to half the country. Doesn't matter who they are.
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Old 5th November 2020, 01:33 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
If the election was by popular vote, the OP would have a point. ...
Nope, the fact you don't is exactly the point, and I mentioned two of the demographics that shouldn't be going to Trump - Latinos and black men.

I don't see why it's impossible to have a candidate or message that appeals to those groups.

Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
What the hell you are talking about? Pretty much every serious democratic candidate would have similar result (or worse). It is physically impossible for democrats to do much better than they did.
I don't buy that.

I reckon a younger, more charismatic candidate would have cleaned up. Michelle Obama was the obvious one, but she doesn't want to play.

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
At this point here is no reason whatsoever to claim that Democrats did something fundamentally wrong.
Except that they choose not to just lie 24/7.
Two words: Nancy Pelosi.

She is ridiculously unpopular and is the de facto leader of the party when they don't have the presidency.

Merely having someone who appeals to more than 30% of people could go a long way to creating change.
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Old 5th November 2020, 01:38 AM   #37
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
It has nothing to do with any individual person's 'electibility'. Anyone who has the D by their name is automatically a communist antichrist to half the country. Doesn't matter who they are.
Which is why it make a tons of sense for the Democrats to split into at least a Progressive, Centrist and Conservative Wing under a Coalition that organizes Primaries via Ranked Choice or similar.
Of course, the DNC would never do this, but it would create too many targets to focus on.
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Old 5th November 2020, 01:40 AM   #38
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Two words: Nancy Pelosi.

She is ridiculously unpopular and is the de facto leader of the party when they don't have the presidency.

Merely having someone who appeals to more than 30% of people could go a long way to creating change.
Nonsense.
If not Pelosi, any other Democrat would get the "Witch" treatment.
Nancy is the shield/lighting rod for other Democrats and she brings in the money for the races for others.
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Old 5th November 2020, 01:53 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
It has nothing to do with any individual person's 'electibility'. Anyone who has the D by their name is automatically a communist antichrist to half the country. Doesn't matter who they are.
This is why IMO it's important for the Democratic candidate to be a "rock star" with real charisma and drawing power. This will encourage centrist left-leaning and people to actually turn out and vote for them and may allow some on the right to ignore the anti propaganda.

The Democrats also need some "new" leaders. Those at the top of the party have been there for decades so they have a lot of baggage and it's very difficult to generate any kind of buzz around them.
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Old 5th November 2020, 02:50 AM   #40
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Well they certainly need to appeal to a wider audience. The turnout was amazing but Trump exceeded it. Where else do they get more voters except by peeling them off of the GOP.

I'd probably stop pushing gun control and appeal to gun owners. Conservationist gun owners, gun owners that want better healthcare, and an increasing amount of minority gun owners are going to have to make choices then.
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