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Tags 2020 elections , donald trump , joe biden

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Old 9th November 2020, 09:55 AM   #241
Bob001
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
What did you guys think I was saying when I said I was seeing evidence? Did you think I had some boxes of contested ballots sitting in my living room or?
.....
You probably don't have a box of ballots in your basement. But you could post links to your sources for each of your claims -- if you have them -- so we could assess them for ourselves. For example, claiming "14,000 dead people registered/voted" is dishonest. The fact that a dead person's name hasn't been removed from the rolls doesn't mean anybody else impersonated him to vote. Some voters died after they submitted their legitimate ballots, and those votes were cancelled. Both Snopes and the Detroit papers have responded to this false claim. I suspect most of your claims would also wither under close examination.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/wi...ead-voters-mi/
https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...ts/3391154001/
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Old 9th November 2020, 09:57 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
What did you guys think I was saying when I said I was seeing evidence? Did you think I had some boxes of contested ballots sitting in my living room or?

I think it's a fair use of the term at this juncture to mean "claims / allegations from people who are in a position to make them credibly, which I think warrant investigation"

He’s using the Carlson defence!
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Old 9th November 2020, 10:00 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You also need to hold that they are incredibly competent at election fraud as to tilt the numbers to Biden, except in all the areas that voted for Trump. I for one don’t find it at all coincidental that the only places they didn’t commit fraud was in places that voted Trump!

(Never mind they seem to have forgotten that senators were also being voted on in many places.)
Yes, in classic shoot-yourself-in-the-foot Democratic style, they pulled off the greatest mass voter fraud in history but forgot to steal the Senate.

Last edited by johnny karate; 9th November 2020 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 9th November 2020, 10:05 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Right, but some means are realistic and others are not, and so I am hopeful that these things turn out to be true and viable as means.
I wish all Nazi sympathisers were as frank as yourself about their complete lack of integrity.


Quote:
I also find them believable because I think the democrats are corrupt and shady (not that the republicans are free of such characteristics, but I think they manifest differently in the two parties) in ways which are consistent with this, and they have decades of documented behavior of this type.
Because you want them to be believable. And not a thing more.
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Old 9th November 2020, 10:06 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
It's high time Trump had some convictions, he's lived his whole life without any.
He seems to actually believe that trade deficits are bad, for that matter trade generally. He been pretty consistent on that since the 80s anyway. Otherwise I agree.

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Trump's legal challenges aren't about winning the presidency in court. It's about grifting his supporters. I'd be surprised if more than 20% of the money raised is used for legal fees.
IDK, even his desire for money seems to be in service to his ego. He think the notion of losing is crushing him right now.

Edit to add, its been awhile, I didn't realize I was responding to posts from 7 pages back. Sorry about that.

On the voter fraud thing, I'm certain there was some, I'm also certain it wasn't enough to matter. I encourage investigations into the credible allegations. I'm sure they won't turn up much but it should be done for the few folks out there that might be convinced by it.

Last edited by ahhell; 9th November 2020 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 9th November 2020, 10:06 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Yes, in classic shoot-yourself-in-the-foot Democratic style, they pulled off the greatest mass voter fraud in history but forgot to steal the Senate.
You laugh that's the most realistic part of this whole fantasy.
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Old 9th November 2020, 10:09 AM   #247
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I'm not going to respond to the delusions/lies about the Alpha Loser having somehow secretly really won. But there is a much more interesting subject to pay attention to in this election's results.

Exit polls, the polls of actual voters after actually voting, show that Trump got more of the non-white vote than any Republican since 1960 (roughly when the two parties traded places on racial issues). He also doubled his gay vote since last time. Even before the election some Democrats were admitting that Latinos in Florida were turning against them (at least when they thought they could use that against progressives), but it wound up happening in the other states too, and black people are one of the groups with which he got the biggest growth. The only group with which Trump did worse than last time was white men, especially less-educated white men. The whole thing shifted toward exactly the opposite of what would be expected by conventional wisdom.

I don't believe it's because there's been a change in what everybody but white men want. It's probably because more and more people who aren't white men are realizing that what they want is not what most Democrats really stand for.
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Old 9th November 2020, 10:18 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I don't believe it's because there's been a change in what everybody but white men want. It's probably because more and more people who aren't white men are realizing that what they want is not what most Democrats really stand for.
No, I think they've been scammed.
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Old 9th November 2020, 10:19 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I'm not going to respond to the delusions/lies about the Alpha Loser having somehow secretly really won. But there is a much more interesting subject to pay attention to in this election's results.

Exit polls, the polls of actual voters after actually voting, show that Trump got more of the non-white vote than any Republican since 1960 (roughly when the two parties traded places on racial issues). He also doubled his gay vote since last time. Even before the election some Democrats were admitting that Latinos in Florida were turning against them (at least when they thought they could use that against progressives), but it wound up happening in the other states too, and black people are one of the groups with which he got the biggest growth. The only group with which Trump did worse than last time was white men, especially less-educated white men. The whole thing shifted toward exactly the opposite of what would be expected by conventional wisdom.

I don't believe it's because there's been a change in what everybody but white men want. It's probably because more and more people who aren't white men are realizing that what they want is not what most Democrats really stand for.
I wouldn't put much stock in the exit polls that are being released before all the votes are counted and don't have a reliable method of accounting for mail in ballots.
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Old 9th November 2020, 10:27 AM   #250
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I'm going to poke at this a little out of order -

Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
I'm saying I am seeing allegations (and not seeing convincing refutations of most of them) that, if proven true, are quite serious and these issues to me seem to obviously necessitate an investigation. I don't think that's a huge claim to make.
First and foremost, I agree that oddities and potential problems should be checked, at least provided that there's reasonable basis and evidence to work with. Election integrity is important. With that said, though, I fully admit being distrustful towards many of the accusations flung around on the right, after having reviewed quite a few and having found quite a lot to be, to be frank, inane. Not all, but more than enough to not immediately accept claims without actually looking at them a bit further.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Michigan
  • A city worker in Detroit claims he and fellow employees were told to back date ballots that came in too late. (Solomon)
  • Antrim county was initially reported as going to Biden. This was so implausible that votes were recounted, and the county went to Trump. The initial miscount was due to "human error."
  • Democrat absentee votes in Oakland county were counted twice. Once corrected, the result of the local election flipped for the Republican.
  • Over 14,000 dead people registered / voted
Your Michigan concerns are decently handled in... GOP calls for Michigan election probe. Officials say their claims are weak.

I'm not seeing that last one about 14,000 dead people addressed there, though. By just googling what you typed, though, multiple fact checkers deemed it outright false.

Incidentally, that also led me to stumble across this -

First Person | I was a Detroit poll challenger. The GOP came to make havoc.

Honestly, it's pretty telling.


Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Pennsylvania
  • Election observers were kept 30 feet from the actual vote counting, meaning they could not see the ballots
Alternately, according to the Trump campaign, up to 100 feet. That challenge, at least, was reasonable, as a judge agreed and the situation was dealt with. It's somewhat problematic that it happened at all... but also not at all unreasonable under the circumstances. This has been a very unusual year, after all, and there are very unusual challenges that needed to be met. Mistakes happen in circumstances like that.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
  • Statistically impossible voter turnout, and record number of people over 90 years old registering to vote
Source? I'm not easily finding either of these on a quick search.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
  • Illegally backdated votes that came in too late
Would this happen to be the Project Veritas claim?

Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Wisconsin
  • Voter turnout higher than number of registered voters in some areas
Higher than a number from 2018, rather?

Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
  • Election officials tracked down witness addresses for absentee ballots to validate votes, a policy that may be illegal.
Not seeing this on a quick search. Source?

Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
  • After the pause in reporting, vote shares shifted in favor of democrats within city wards, meaning this was not due to more democratic areas reporting later, and this was truer the more behind the democrats were in each ward, contrary to what an explanation based on late mail-in voters would predict.
Same as above.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
  • Only the state legislature can change election procedures, but election officials allowed potentially over 100,000 voters to bypass ID requirements by claiming that COVID prevented them from leaving home.
That's potentially a thorny issue there, regardless, but, before delving further into it, I have to ask whether there were relevant contingencies in the election procedures that were being invoked. And, for that matter, whether the ID requirements were actually bypassed.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Arizona
  • Based on sworn testimony, it is alleged that ballots in Maricopa county featuring "over-voting" were invalidated rather than fixed. (Singman)
The Sharpie marked ballots?

Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Georgia
  • Illegal ballot harvesting
While problematic if true - it's worth remembering that this is Georgia. There have been lots of GOP electoral shenanigans and false accusations made in Georgia, over and over and over.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
And then there are things like this:

That, when one considers the larger events context and locations that the ballots are from, is honestly not surprising, let alone suspicious at all, much as for some of them, it may be cause for suspicion that they weren't even more skewed towards Biden.
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Old 9th November 2020, 10:40 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I don't believe it's because there's been a change in what everybody but white men want. It's probably because more and more people who aren't white men are realizing that what they want is not what most Democrats really stand for.
So they voted for for a party that stands for even less than what they want?

Sounds intelligent.
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Old 9th November 2020, 10:49 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post


Incidentally, that also led me to stumble across this -

First Person | I was a Detroit poll challenger. The GOP came to make havoc.

Honestly, it's pretty telling.
Here's a representative sample:

"At one point after lunch, a woman with the GOP suggested that a box of ballots had been taken from the tabulator area and was being moved back to the precinct. A group of GOP challengers ran after the team leader carrying a box back to a counting board. They surrounded him and demanded he open it, certain they had nabbed a fraudster. He was unbothered, opened the box and let everyone look inside. It was empty. He had dropped off ballots that were ready to be processed at the tabulator area and was going to the precinct to pick up more."
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Old 9th November 2020, 10:57 AM   #253
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The Arizona lawsuit is "Sharpiegate Redux" or "Green Button".

Sharpie lawsuit - ballots were rejected due to voters being given a Sharpie. The manufacturer actually recommends Sharpies because they dry faster than regular ink. No ballots were rejected due to Sharpie use.

The new lawusit should be called "Green Button" lawsuit. Most officials say it is a rehash of the Sharpie lawsuit - ballots were incorrectly rejected due to pushing a green button on a counting machine if it didn't take the ballot the first time.
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Old 9th November 2020, 11:11 AM   #254
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Putin said the US election was "sloppy", but that's what happens when people are actually allowed to vote.
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Old 9th November 2020, 11:20 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
Putin said the US election was "sloppy", but that's what happens when people are actually allowed to vote.
I think he's criticizing the GOP's sloppy rigging of the election. If they did it right, then Trump would've "won" this election.
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Old 9th November 2020, 11:21 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by rdaneel View Post
I lucky this hasn't happened to me yet. I can think of a few times I've pulled my phone out of my pocket to find apps open that I didn't even know I had and my browser has multiple tabs to a variety of places man was not meant to go.

I don't carry my phone in a pocket, but I have seen plenty of examples of what random clicks can do.

I have an old phone that I use as a bedside clock, with a large full-screen clock face app.

I also live with a cat who likes to encourage me to wake up by shoving things around (and occasionally off of) my bedside table. The things she can do to that phone boggle the imagination.

And I'm certain she knows what she's doing. Either that or she just enjoys watching the screen change when she pokes at it.
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Old 9th November 2020, 11:23 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I think he's criticizing the GOP's sloppy rigging of the election. If they did it right, then Trump would've "won" this election.
He's definitely the authority on skeezy election tactics. I'm surprised he didn't provide Trump with a coloring book full of useful tips.
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Old 9th November 2020, 11:24 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It's funny. I watched a report today about Alabama ballots being delivered to a residence in Texas. An immediate thought is that something nefarious going on. Maybe with the USPS perhaps? But a cursory examination with an open mind suggest that while something strange did happen, two ballots being misdelivered is not persuasive evidence of anything corrupt.

Depends. If they were ballots from Repugnicans then it is clear evidence of widespread election fraud by Democrats.

If they were ballots from Democrats then it is simply a harmless error by the Post Office, probably brought about by the overwork caused by evil Democrats overloading the system.
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Old 9th November 2020, 11:34 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Each county and in some places city prints their own ballots. My ballot had the president my representative in Congress, two county judges, school board reps, and board of supervisors on it. You'd have to have a massive operation to defraud each county or city election system.

According to our BoE website there are 11 different ballot styles being used across the 55 precincts in the county. There isn't much difference between them. Possibly only the ballot style number at the top. Maybe a few judge's seats and some non-partisan offices.

By way of example.
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Old 9th November 2020, 11:35 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I'm not going to respond to the delusions/lies about the Alpha Loser having somehow secretly really won. But there is a much more interesting subject to pay attention to in this election's results.

Exit polls, the polls of actual voters after actually voting, show that Trump got more of the non-white vote than any Republican since 1960 (roughly when the two parties traded places on racial issues). He also doubled his gay vote since last time. Even before the election some Democrats were admitting that Latinos in Florida were turning against them (at least when they thought they could use that against progressives), but it wound up happening in the other states too, and black people are one of the groups with which he got the biggest growth. The only group with which Trump did worse than last time was white men, especially less-educated white men. The whole thing shifted toward exactly the opposite of what would be expected by conventional wisdom.

I don't believe it's because there's been a change in what everybody but white men want. It's probably because more and more people who aren't white men are realizing that what they want is not what most Democrats really stand for.
Can you provide link(s) to that data, sounds very interesting.
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Old 9th November 2020, 11:36 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I don't believe it's because there's been a change in what everybody but white men want. It's probably because more and more people who aren't white men are realizing that what they want is not what most Democrats really stand for.
Again I think you overstate how sophisticated their view of the Democrats is. I think it's more the gut feeling he's-not-so-bad nonsense and a handful of YIKES SOCIALISM! Trump has no standards and they don't expect anything out of him.
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Old 9th November 2020, 11:37 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I'm not going to respond to the delusions/lies about the Alpha Loser having somehow secretly really won. But there is a much more interesting subject to pay attention to in this election's results.

Exit polls, the polls of actual voters after actually voting, show that Trump got more of the non-white vote than any Republican since 1960 (roughly when the two parties traded places on racial issues). He also doubled his gay vote since last time. Even before the election some Democrats were admitting that Latinos in Florida were turning against them (at least when they thought they could use that against progressives), but it wound up happening in the other states too, and black people are one of the groups with which he got the biggest growth. The only group with which Trump did worse than last time was white men, especially less-educated white men. The whole thing shifted toward exactly the opposite of what would be expected by conventional wisdom.

I don't believe it's because there's been a change in what everybody but white men want. It's probably because more and more people who aren't white men are realizing that what they want is not what most Democrats really stand for.
Yes, if there’s one takeaway from any election, it’s that people are rejecting the person who won by several million votes.
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Old 9th November 2020, 11:37 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Yes, if there’s one takeaway from any election, it’s that people are rejecting the person who won by several million votes.
He's so unelectable.
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Old 9th November 2020, 11:44 AM   #264
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I really underestimated how many people on the Left were going to be this pissed, demoralized, or otherwise upset that Biden won.
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Old 9th November 2020, 11:46 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I really underestimated how many people on the Left were going to be this pissed, demoralized, or otherwise upset that Biden won.
I don't think you did. It's a small amount of people that are very loud, that's all.
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Old 9th November 2020, 11:46 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
I'm going to poke at this a little out of order -

<snip>

Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Georgia
  • Illegal ballot harvesting
While problematic if true - it's worth remembering that this is Georgia. There have been lots of GOP electoral shenanigans and false accusations made in Georgia, over and over and over.

<snip>

Funny you should mention that.

Here in NC, back in the 2018 election, we had a real honest-to-goodness illegal ballot harvesting incident. They were caught, and the election for that county had to be re-done. The local office candidate who was involved stepped down.

Everyone involved were Repugnicans.

Of course.
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Old 9th November 2020, 11:49 AM   #267
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Kevin Sorbo tweeted

@ksorbs
The media is claiming Biden won so that the riots will be MASSIVE when Trump is re-elected

(this tweet has 12.5k likes)

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 9th November 2020 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 9th November 2020, 11:51 AM   #268
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Kevin Sorbo tweeted

@ksorbs
The media is claiming Biden won so that the riots will be MASSIVE when Trump is re-elected
Sorbo? Really?
buahwahaaaaa.
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Old 9th November 2020, 11:53 AM   #269
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James Woods tweeted

@RealJamesWoods
And just like that the rioting and looting has ceased overnight. And now the half of the country that pummeled America like a battered wife is telling her to put on sunglasses, hide her black eye, be a good girl, and “come together as one.” Her answer? “Go **** yourself.”

They are are already softening the battlefield for the miraculous disappearance of COVID. Should be gone by the inauguration.

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 9th November 2020 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 9th November 2020, 11:55 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
James Woods tweeted

@RealJamesWoods
And just like that the rioting and looting has ceased overnight.
Biden did a great job of stopping all the rioting and looting!
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.
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Old 9th November 2020, 11:58 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I really underestimated how many people on the Left were going to be this pissed, demoralized, or otherwise upset that Biden won.
Biden's victory contradicts their claims that no moderate can win or has ever won the presidency. (As long as you ignore Obama, Clinton, etc)
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Old 9th November 2020, 12:03 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
James Woods tweeted

@RealJamesWoods
And just like that the rioting and looting has ceased overnight. And now the half of the country that pummeled America like a battered wife is telling her to put on sunglasses, hide her black eye, be a good girl, and “come together as one.” Her answer? “Go **** yourself.”

They are are already softening the battlefield for the miraculous disappearance of COVID. Should be gone by the inauguration.
Fox News stopped their wall to wall exaggerations of a couple of protestors into whole cities burning down after it was no longer needed to scare people into voting for Republicans and this guy thinks it's the "rioting and looting" that stopped? I guess he doesn't remember the caravan of ravaging and pillaging immigrants ready to overrun our southern border that just disappeared Nov 6th, 2018?
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Old 9th November 2020, 12:10 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
From that link:



Someone is trying to make him sound reasonable, or save face, but take a look at that conditional statement. IF his legal challenges fail THEN he will concede and execute a peaceful transition of power. There's a fallacy there I can't quite put my finger on. IF his legal challenges fail, THEN he has no ******* leg to stand on whatsoever. The statement ... nullifies itself, is the best I can come up with. Or it's a tautology. IF he fails, then he fails. He doesn't have to concede. It's conventional, but it's not required. So why bother making a statement? He's welcome to stick to his guns, as far as I'm concerned. But the DOJ doesn't seem to be going all-in with him anymore. It never quite did, Barr's efforts notwithstanding.

ETA: L'etat, c'est ne pas Donald Trump.
I took it as "instead of trying to institute a coup and become dictator for life".
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Old 9th November 2020, 12:30 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I took it as "instead of trying to institute a coup and become dictator for life".
You agree he'd like to, right?
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Old 9th November 2020, 12:35 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
James Woods tweeted

@RealJamesWoods
And just like that the rioting and looting has ceased overnight. And now the half of the country that pummeled America like a battered wife is telling her to put on sunglasses, hide her black eye, be a good girl, and “come together as one.” Her answer? “Go **** yourself.”

They are are already softening the battlefield for the miraculous disappearance of COVID. Should be gone by the inauguration.
I mean, I can only speak for myself, but I am part of the over half of voters who voted against Trump, and I never rioted, looted, or otherwise "pummeled" America. what a git this so called James Woods is
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Old 9th November 2020, 12:44 PM   #276
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Giuliani presents his expert witness:

Quote:
It’s such a shame. This is a democracy,” Daryl Brooks, who said he was a GOP poll watcher, said at the press conference, held at Four Seasons Total Landscaping in Northeast Philadelphia. “They did not allow us to see anything. Was it corrupt or not? But give us an opportunity as poll watchers to view all the documents — all of the ballots.”

Trenton political insiders watched with bemusement as Brooks took the podium.

Brooks was incarcerated in the 1990s on charges of sexual assault, lewdness and endangering the welfare of a minor for exposing himself to two girls ages 7 and 11, according to news accounts.

Brooks has run for various offices, including U.S. Senate and the House of Representatives.

“I started watching it and all of a sudden I was like, ‘there’s New Jersey’s perennial candidate claiming to live in Philadelphia and Giuliani claiming him to be a poll watcher and Philadelphia resident," Trenton Mayor Reed Gusciora said in a phone interview.
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Old 9th November 2020, 12:47 PM   #277
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Apologies if this has already been posted.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Also, note the identifier of the video:

Quote:
JERK46C9f7c
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Old 9th November 2020, 12:49 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
You agree he'd like to, right?
I'm not a mind reader. It's certainly been floated as speculation often enough over the last four years.
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Old 9th November 2020, 12:55 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Kevin Sorbo tweeted

@ksorbs
The media is claiming Biden won so that the riots will be MASSIVE when Trump is re-elected

(this tweet has 12.5k likes)
Steroids?
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Old 9th November 2020, 12:56 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
James Woods tweeted

@RealJamesWoods
And just like that the rioting and looting has ceased overnight. And now the half of the country that pummeled America like a battered wife is telling her to put on sunglasses, hide her black eye, be a good girl, and “come together as one.” Her answer? “Go **** yourself.”

They are are already softening the battlefield for the miraculous disappearance of COVID. Should be gone by the inauguration.
Syphilis?
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