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Tags aids , cancer , cancer treatments , jim humble

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Old 8th December 2008, 03:55 PM   #1
The Atheist
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Miracle Mineral Supplement

I had a search for threads on this disgusting idea, but it doesn't seem to have been discussed here previously.

Even worse, searches for it return no pages debunking the absurd premise behind the fraudulent compounds, nor the idiotic pseudoscience which they claim works, so a thread on here will rank pretty well.

Miracle Mineral Supplement claims to help all sorts of things, from colds to cancer, and while I haven't spent much time scouting claims on the US home site, the NZ site is rash enough to state:

Originally Posted by Some Lying Scumbag
It can assist the immune system in combating problems as simple as a common cold; or as deadly as cancer and AIDS.
Here

Fortunately, that claim appears to be illegal in this country and I've laid a complaint with the appropriate authority today.

Please help pile faeces onto this disgusting piece of propaganda.

Predictably, the miraculous properties of this wonderful stuff were discovered not by research scientists, not by doctors, not even by someone remotely connected with the medical industry, but an engineer.

A mining engineer...
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Old 8th December 2008, 03:58 PM   #2
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The problem is the weasel word "can".

Maybe it can. Maybe it can fuel the shuttle into low Earth orbit. Maybe it can make some lying scumbag a fortune.

Ever read a tale by H.G.Wells, called "Tono Bungay"?

Anyway- what's wrong with mining engineers?


So how do you plan to pile faeces?

Last edited by Soapy Sam; 8th December 2008 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 8th December 2008, 04:23 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Soapy Sam View Post
The problem is the weasel word "can".

Maybe it can. Maybe it can fuel the shuttle into low Earth orbit. Maybe it can make some lying scumbag a fortune.
Unfortunately, that won't work, because to say it "can" in this context, they'd have to offer proof.

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam View Post
Ever read a tale by H.G.Wells, called "Tono Bungay"?
As a matter of fact, I even own a copy!

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam View Post
Anyway- what's wrong with mining engineers?
Nothing at all, but if I'm sick, I'll probably go to a doctor. If I'm about to dig a gold mine, I'll ask a mining engineer.

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam View Post
So how do you plan to pile faeces?
Usual way; public humiliation, attacking them, using the law to stop their fraud... A punch in the face if I thought it would work.
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Old 8th December 2008, 04:56 PM   #4
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http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:...ful-chemistry/

There's certainly a lot of it out there.
http://www.miracle-mineral-supplement.com/

Seems to boil down to suggesting people drink a dilute bleach.
As a water purifier it may have some merit. I can't help thinking any health authority would react strongly to using it as a dietary supplement.
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Old 8th December 2008, 05:52 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Soapy Sam View Post
There's certainly a lot of it out there.
Sure as hell is, which is why I'm a little disappointed there aren't people attacking this stuff. Sylivia Browne's all very well, but she's not actively killing people, as far as I know.

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam View Post
Seems to boil down to suggesting people drink a dilute bleach.
As a water purifier it may have some merit. I can't help thinking any health authority would react strongly to using it as a dietary supplement.
I wonder if it turns your dung white?
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Old 8th December 2008, 06:17 PM   #6
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Mine's white to start with.
It's 'cos I'm pure in thought and deed.
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Old 8th December 2008, 07:35 PM   #7
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I'd rather drink alcohol than bleach. harumph. Might have some merit if we had to worry about harmful microbes in our water.

Quote:
Note: If you notice diarrhea, or even vomiting that is not necessarily a bad sign. The body is simply throwing off toxins and cleaning itself out. Some people say they feel much better after having diarrhea. You do not have to take any medicine for it as it will go away as fast as it came. It will not last. It is not caused by a bacteria or virus. When the "poison" is gone, the diarrhea is gone.


Typical. What toxins, hmmmmmm????????
What toxins can be flushed by this stuff and why? Course, they never say. Chlorine dioxide? It will run through the digestive tract. So what? Unless you need to kill all of your digestive tract microbes, then there's no point.

http://www.americanchemistry.com/s_c...45&CTYPEID=113

It would be better to put it into unchlorinated drinking water, and then let it sit for a while before drinking it. If you kill everything in your system, then you'll leave yourself open to getting more harmful microbes taking their place. You'll also leave yourself open to digestive problems until you get friendly bacteria and fungal levels back up.

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../mole00129.htm

ooooo, another forum breaks this down nicely:

Quote:
4. False statement- the CLO2 deposits onto stomach walls where it enters the body like other nutrients--well first off nutrients leave the gut via small intestines NOT the stomach, secondly the acids in the stomach would react with the CLO2 anyway.and make those SALTS long before it leaves the stomach--add HCL to your solutions and see what happens! even they say to NOT add Vit c- ascorbic ACID for that reason
http://www.mdjunction.com/forums/lym...on-bad-science

Gotta love it when someone has already done the work
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Old 9th December 2008, 05:24 PM   #8
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I was just watching NBC Nightly News and they had a spot about "The search for the magic pill." Dr. Robert Bazell concluded with: "I have written before about the futility of the ongoing effort to test dietary supplements. . . Everyone wants the pill that will replace diet and exercise. But it seems unlikely to ever happen." How refreshing for the unwashed masses to get a healthy dose of skepticism via mainstream media. Hooray for Dr. Bazell !
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Old 10th December 2008, 03:01 AM   #9
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In a similar vein, I heard an interview with a representative of an alcohol abuse support group on BBC radio Scotland yesterday. Asked about a recent announcement of a drug to end alcoholism and people's individual genetic susceptibility to alcohol, he replied that while such susceptibility may exist, the prime cause of alcohol related problems in Scotland is the increased social acceptance that it's OK to drink far too much- and that what's required is not another magic bullet, but a sane approach to the use of alcohol.

Well said, that man.


Chlorine dioxide is used as an antibacterial agent in the food industry. Chicken and other carcases are treated with it these days.

Used in places with a dirty water supply, this stuff may have a use in water purification. So would small amounts of Chlorox, which probably sells for less.

Last edited by Soapy Sam; 10th December 2008 at 03:05 AM.
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Old 31st January 2009, 09:22 AM   #10
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Just an update for anyone interested, this crowd has shot itself in the foot - I received a letter yesterday advising that the Health & Disability Commissioner is about to prosecute the advertisers/distributors for false advertising!

One win in the war on alt-med.

I'll take it!
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Old 31st January 2009, 10:24 AM   #11
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eeep.

Not a war on "alt med", a war on nonsense. Um. But I'm trying to think of some kind of alt med that is not nonsense... eep. okay, erm. Nevermind. I really don't know how to be "PC" about this. ack.
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Old 31st January 2009, 12:53 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Predictably, the miraculous properties of this wonderful stuff were discovered not by research scientists, not by doctors, not even by someone remotely connected with the medical industry, but an engineer.

A mining engineer...
I've never been able to understand why people actually consider this kind of thing a desirable quality. When Airborne came out in the US, a major aspect of the advertising was that it had not been created by a doctor, but by a schoolteacher (a 2nd grade schoolteacher at that) with no medical experience at all. The fact that she had absolutely no medical education or experience somehow made her more qualified to prescribe medication for a common illness than someone with many years of education and experience in the medical field.

What is the logic behind that? It boggles the mind. That's like saying that if you have a problem with your car, you should take it to a bank teller or pastry chef, instead of an auto mechanic; or if your pipes are leaking, forget the plumber and call in an advertising copywriter or law office receptionist.
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Old 31st January 2009, 01:04 PM   #13
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I have a friend who is dying of cancer, and the woo are getting their hooks in her in spite of my very patient explanation that nobody has any proof those things help at all.
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Old 2nd February 2009, 01:30 AM   #14
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Main stream treatment for cancer is hopeless, all the doctors an the kings men can't put Hump----so may as well try other things. "Only a mining engineer" A statement like that is a form of white collar racism. I have a friend using the stuff for cancer so far so good.
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Old 2nd February 2009, 01:49 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
Main stream treatment for cancer is hopeless, all the doctors an the kings men can't put Hump----so may as well try other things.

Yeah, as long as someone can make a quick buck off the misfortunes of others, who cares about morals or ethics, right?
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Old 2nd February 2009, 01:50 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
Main stream treatment for cancer is hopeless...

This is a lie, by the way.
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Old 2nd February 2009, 02:06 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
Main stream treatment for cancer is hopeless, all the doctors an the kings men can't put Hump----so may as well try other things. "Only a mining engineer" A statement like that is a form of white collar racism. I have a friend using the stuff for cancer so far so good.
I strongly suggest your friend makes sure his oncologist and any other doctors he has know what alternative 'meds' he is taking.

I'm really hoping he also has an oncologist.
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Old 2nd February 2009, 11:14 AM   #18
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Just so you know, Old Bob is a contrarian or troll who says he believes in all sorts of things.

I second Cavemonster's hope that Bob's pal has a real doctor.
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Old 2nd February 2009, 02:24 PM   #19
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Stuff like this is why at times I wish I did believe in Hell so that the people who exploit cancer patients to sell useless crap will go to the hottest part of it.
And this means you in particular, Kevin Trudeau.
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Old 2nd February 2009, 02:44 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Sure as hell is, which is why I'm a little disappointed there aren't people attacking this stuff. Sylivia Browne's all very well, but she's not actively killing people, as far as I know.
Talk about killing people, check this one out:

http://ivymed.us/venom-x/index.html

There is only one treatment, worldwide, approved for snakebite envenomation and that's antivenom. Many ethnic remedies abound but these mostly occur in India, Africa and
China where antivenom isn't always available. Now along comes what appears to be a
U.S. company with some miracle stuff that claims to cure snakebite.
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Old 2nd February 2009, 04:19 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Stuff like this is why at times I wish I did believe in Hell so that the people who exploit cancer patients to sell useless crap will go to the hottest part of it.
And this means you in particular, Kevin Trudeau.
Amen to that!

Originally Posted by SteveGrenard View Post
Talk about killing people, check this one out:

http://ivymed.us/venom-x/index.html

There is only one treatment, worldwide, approved for snakebite envenomation and that's antivenom. Many ethnic remedies abound but these mostly occur in India, Africa and
China where antivenom isn't always available. Now along comes what appears to be a
U.S. company with some miracle stuff that claims to cure snakebite.
Marvellous. Don't you have laws against this stuff?
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Old 2nd February 2009, 04:57 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
... Marvellous. Don't you have laws against this stuff?
I wish! It is sad, but the minute you clamp down on stuff like this here, you have a very loud outcry from a very small part of the public, and most politicians are too spineless to tell them to bugger off.
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Old 2nd February 2009, 05:19 PM   #23
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Quote:
Marvellous. Don't you have laws against this stuff?
Yes but the laws are complicated, politicians not withstanding. Remedies that predate such laws or which consist of so-called "natural" or "food" supplements are often give a pass. Making outrageous unproven claims for them are not legal but promoters have ways around making claims by using testimony of others or garnering P.R. outside of the direct marketing of the product. In the case of this snakebite cure I can say it has been referred to the appropriate authorities but it remains to be seen what can be done about it. I have since learned that this product is powdered detergent which is supposed to be stuffed into the snakebite fang tracks (with a toothpick) where it is alleged to clean up or denature the proteinacious toxins in the venom. I would like to see the studies on this but I fear they just don't exist. Until now this is one snakebite cure I have never heard of but I have heard about a lot of them. During prohibition whiskey was the favorite treatment for snakebite and every Friday night doctor's offices were filled with snakebite victims waiting for prescriptions for medicinal alcohol.

In the meantime I hope not too many genuine snakebite victims suffer or die by shunning antivenom in favor of this stuff.

With snakebite it is even possible that the testimonial evidence is "legit" because a lot of
snakebites are dry bites (no venom injected) or are made by non-venomous snakes mistaken for venomous ones. So anything will work on a snakebite like these since there is no problem to begin with.
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Old 2nd February 2009, 06:35 PM   #24
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That makes sense, detergent gets dishes squeaky clean, do they make the same claim for your flesh?

At least stuff like that would be strictly illegal here - our rules are loose, but not that loose.
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Old 2nd February 2009, 06:48 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Just so you know, Old Bob is a contrarian or troll who says he believes in all sorts of things.

I second Cavemonster's hope that Bob's pal has a real doctor.
I have concluded, sadly, that he actually believes things he posts.
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Old 4th February 2009, 11:02 AM   #26
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-- to report a website that is selling some drug, etc that you have concerns about, report it via this link to FDA:

http://www.fda.gov/oc/buyonline/buyonlineform.htm

all the info that is necessary is the website and your concern - you don't even have to identify yourself.
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Old 9th February 2009, 06:29 PM   #27
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People who take advantage of the sick, dying and grieving - be they the snake oil salesmen or the "psychics" who claim to speak to your loved ones from "beyond the grave" -- those are just the lowest of the low, in my opinion. The scum of the earth.
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Old 9th February 2009, 07:17 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I have concluded, sadly, that he actually believes things he posts.
I've never seen any evidence to the contrary.
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Old 9th February 2009, 10:23 PM   #29
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For all the annoying dross....once in a while a gem is found.... go figure....
Quote:
Boy with baffling illness so rare it does not have a name is cured by his PARENTS


By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 12:14 PM on 09th February 2009


The dedicated parents of an eight-year-old boy with a devastating blood disorder have amazed doctors by finding a cure for him after refusing to give up hope.
Reuben Grainger-Mead’s illness, which doctors said was like living with a ‘permanent hangover’, was so rare that it still does not have a name.
But after parents Peter Mead and Michelle Grainger-Mead began a process of painstaking research they found ordinary dietary protein supplements relieved his condition.

Breakthrough: Reuben Grainger-Mead and parents Michell and Peter

And medics now believe the amino acid treatment could also be a breakthrough for sufferers of cancer and other diseases and have launched an official study.
Reuben’s heartening story mirrors that of Lorenzo Odone, who was the inspiration for the film Lorenzo’s Oil, starring Nick Nolte and Susan Sarandon.
Despite being given just two years to live at age six, he survived until he was 30 after his parents Augusto and Michaela discovered a treatment, which took the form of a dietary supplement involving olive oil.
Before being successfully treated Reuben, from Gomersal, West Yorkshire, had required painful monthly transfusions because his red blood cell count was so low.
Doctors believe his condition is unique, but said it is similar to Diamond Blackfan Anaemia (DBA) - but some of his symptoms were very different.
As he was growing up, he had a low immune system so he constantly fell ill and suffered from ailments like eczema and asthma.
He was weak and struggled to speak, his growth was stunted and he was also 18 months behind other children with his all-round development.
His heart had to work much harder, giving him a fast heartbeat - three or four times quicker than normal - leaving him vulnerable to heart attacks.
When Reuben was examined at the age of two, doctors compared his condition to living with a ‘permanent hangover’.
And after countless tests, his parents were given the shattering news that doctors were powerless to help their son.
But Mr Mead, 45, and Mrs Grainger-Mead, 39, scoured the Internet for years looking for alternative therapies, and considered acupuncture and Oriental therapy, before turning to nutritional consultant Diana Wright.

Inspiration: The film Lorenzo's Oil, starring Susan Sarandon and Nick Nolte

Mrs Wright discovered Reuben lacked certain vital amino acids, proteins, in his body, so he was put on a course of dietary supplements which were mixed into his food and drink, with incredible success.
He is now a normal, healthy eight-year-old who loves playing with pals and riding his bike. He is even catching up to his friends in height.
At his last blood count, he had an above average number of red blood cells.
The youngster, who had 25 one-pint blood transfusions while ill, has not needed one for three years thanks to his regime.
Mrs Grainger-Mead, a teacher, said: ‘We are dumbfounded at how successful it has been.
‘We did live in hope but always had the doubt as all the medics were saying there was nothing else we could do.’
Before finding the treatment, Reuben’s parents feared he would die prematurely.
Mr Mead, a supply chain manager, said: ‘The stark reality was that Reuben needed a blood transfusion every month to increase his red blood cell count, which would mean constant care throughout his whole life and so much time spent in hospital.
‘The last resort would then have been a bone marrow transplant, which doctors said he may not have survived because he was so ill.’
The astonishing success of Reuben’s treatment has led to doctors planning a study to see if similar therapy works on other ill children and adults.
It was partly funded with £70,000 raised by his parents.
Dr Jose Delafuente, an eminent haematologist at Imperial College, London, who is running the research, said: ‘Reuben has been given amino acids as part of a diet of supplements and this seems to have a positive effect on him.
‘They seem to be helping his cells grow normally and as a result he is starting to grow properly.
‘There are about 100 children suffering from DBA in the UK, and one of the features of this condition is that they have a great risk of developing cancer, particularly leukaemia and bone cancer but also many other cancers.
‘This is because of a protein defect in the blood.
‘There is early evidence that using amino acids may overcome this problem with the protein, and ultimately we hope the risk of DBA sufferers developing cancer will be abolished.
‘So we may learn lessons from this which help in the fight against cancer.
‘DBA sufferers have a life expectancy of around 40 so this is highly important research.’
Reuben takes a daily cocktail of six protein supplements, involving powder and tablets, with meals and drinks. It costs around £10,000 a year.
Nutritional consultant Mrs Wright, who works at The Orchard Clinic for Complementary Medicine in Amersham, Buckinghamshire, said: ‘In May 2004 we discovered Reuben lacked two amino acids called leucine and isoluceine, so we started him on a series of dietary supplements, checking his blood levels every three months.
‘In other words you are giving the body the tools to fix a problem.’
Mrs Grainger-Smith added: ‘It’s amazing that we have been so successful and we would be so proud we have contributed to this groundbreaking research which could potentially help so many people.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar....html?ITO=1490

That's sort of what happened with the best malaria drug......popped up out of Chinese traditional meds....
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Old 9th February 2009, 10:23 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Donna Gore View Post
People who take advantage of the sick, dying and grieving - be they the snake oil salesmen or the "psychics" who claim to speak to your loved ones from "beyond the grave" -- those are just the lowest of the low, in my opinion. The scum of the earth.
Couldn't agree more.
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Old 10th February 2009, 12:07 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Eos of the Eons View Post
eeep.

But I'm trying to think of some kind of alt med that is not nonsense... eep.
only a complete whack job would think that all herbs are worthless for certain problems a person might have.

this MMS sounds like a complete scam. $20/bottle -- someone is getting rich.
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Old 10th February 2009, 05:49 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I have concluded, sadly, that he actually believes things he posts.
Yer Lionking my stuff works. MM. did I endorse it? or say a friend was taking it. So far he's ok. Not my first choice but unlike you I like to give things a chance. My first choice would be peroxide vit.c and B 17. Or would you rather chemo and die. Here we are in this amazing life trip and so much is treated as crazy because many, you included can't take it on. I have tried to lift the corner of the veil but might as well wee into the wind. Old and fit and don't give a -----
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Old 10th February 2009, 05:10 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
Or would you rather chemo and die.
Of course. Reject the treatment that has been demonstrated to be effective in favour of vitamin pills, which have not. Sure, that makes perfect sense.
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Old 3rd August 2010, 09:57 AM   #34
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Miracle Mineral Supplement

It looks like the FDA has finally caught up with the JREF.

The Food and Drug Administration is warning consumers not to consume or use Miracle Mineral Solution, here
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Old 3rd August 2010, 01:30 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by SRW View Post
... The Food and Drug Administration is warning consumers not to consume or use Miracle Mineral Solution, here
And here http://abelpharmboy.wordpress.com/20...eral-solution/
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Old 6th August 2010, 04:27 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by JJM View Post
And Here it seems to be everywhere why is their web site still up?
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Old 6th August 2010, 04:42 PM   #37
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[quote=The Atheist;4257356]Sure as hell is, which is why I'm a little disappointed there aren't people attacking this stuff. Sylivia Browne's all very well, but she's not actively killing people, as far as I know.

Are the people advocating this stuff "actively killing people?"
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Old 6th August 2010, 04:59 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by jakesteele View Post

Are the people advocating this stuff "actively killing people?"
What do you call it when people stop taking real medicine for snake oil and die?
Passively killing them? Especially when taken as the promoters of this stuff recommend it turns into an industrial bleach. Great stuff.
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Old 6th August 2010, 05:33 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I had a search for threads on this disgusting idea, but it doesn't seem to have been discussed here previously.

Even worse, searches for it return no pages debunking the absurd premise behind the fraudulent compounds, nor the idiotic pseudoscience which they claim works, so a thread on here will rank pretty well.

....

"Even worse" ??? I find it encouraging that this sort of claim is ignored en masse.

No offense, but why do you feel required to reject each individual extraordinary claim based on a per-case examination of evidence ? Logically we can reject any claim out of hand until the proponent provides significant evidence. You could spend a lifetime trying to refute the unsupported claims that have just arrived on the web this week. Why bother ? You are accepting an impractical, pointless and even irrational onus.

In the excrutiatingly improbable event that this space cadet gets a published report in a substantial journal that this product has merit I'll discuss it. Till then you are wasting your life refuting each and every half-bake baloney pile that comes along.

Originally Posted by SRW View Post
What do you call it when people stop taking real medicine for snake oil and die?
Natural selection.

Last edited by stevea; 6th August 2010 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 6th August 2010, 06:05 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by stevea View Post

Natural selection.
Unnatural selection at best manslaughter preferred.
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