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Tags Coronavirus , diseases

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Old 15th February 2020, 04:55 AM   #1081
Roboramma
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Captain Swoop, am I missing something? Why are you posting random Trump tweets in this thread?
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Old 15th February 2020, 04:59 AM   #1082
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Captain Swoop, am I missing something? Why are you posting random Trump tweets in this thread?
Barr Syndrome.
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Old 15th February 2020, 05:58 AM   #1083
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
SARS Covid-19 doesn't present as a cold, with runny nose and sneezing. All you get is a high fever, aches and pains and a dry cough.



Secondly, I am pretty sure McDonalds workers wear latex gloves.



However, you are right to be wary of public places. I joined a gym just before this time last year in London. It was very popular and within two weeks I went down with a horrible cold/flu, which I know was due to unclean gym equipment (=lots of people having gripped the treadmills and bikes, etc). You just know. After that, I transferred to a brand new gym and all was well.
As usual you are wrong, the staff giving the orders out don't wear gloves.
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Old 15th February 2020, 05:59 AM   #1084
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Captain Swoop, am I missing something? Why are you posting random Trump tweets in this thread?
It concerns a cruise ship with the virus aboard.

the others were mistakes sorry.

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 15th February 2020 at 06:00 AM.
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Old 15th February 2020, 07:07 AM   #1085
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
I am sorry you seem to be missing the point I am making.

This stuff about flu replication in organs such as the spleen brain etc. is a long time issue in virology. There are very strong views on it. People post these papers because it is controversial.

As I said I was imprecise in saying respiratory tract, being slightly too simplistic for a lay audience, and a better term would be mucosa which would have covered all options even rare ones. I accept that the conjunctiva can be directly infected, and there may be rare cases when particularly avian viruses infect the human GI tract, but you are missing the point I was really making in trying to nitpick the details.
Or you could have said the rare exception that proves the rule.
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Old 15th February 2020, 07:34 AM   #1086
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
Or you could have said the rare exception that proves the rule.
The issue is slightly personal since I once got firmly told off by Maria Zambon* for suggesting that flu encephalitis was due to flu infection because that implied flu was neurotropic, as opposed to encephalitis being immune mediated.
*https://isirv.org/site/index.php/avg...5-maria-zambon
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Old 15th February 2020, 07:57 AM   #1087
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Eight of the nine people being treated in the UK have recovered and been discharged.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-51514628
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Old 15th February 2020, 08:07 AM   #1088
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
We are talking about human flu viruses causing influenza in humans; as I previously noted pantropism is known in non-human influenza. What happens in cats, dogs, and birds is irrelevant.
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Old 15th February 2020, 08:12 AM   #1089
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21 countries still with active cases, 8 with all cases recovered or dead.
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Old 15th February 2020, 08:48 AM   #1090
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So you take it back. Got it.

This is what you said:No, I don't have to understand, because you're wrong.
This is a paper on the pathology of influenza.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...468?via%3Dihub
It explains how some (few) people have isolated flu virus from internal organs of humans dying of human flu, but others despite looking hard have failed to do so. This remains a controversial area in which people take sides. Even the existence of viable virus in blood is controversial, if this were the case to any extent then one would be taking enhanced precautions around blood testing, particularly near patient testing in people with flu. To what extent is the viral RNA found a product of dying and the leakage of viruses from the airways into blood and deposition in a perimortem period?

The behaviour of non human flu viruses and influenza in non human hosts is a different issue.
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Old 15th February 2020, 10:36 AM   #1091
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
I find it very odd that there have not been many cases where a person has caught the virus despite not being on a cruise ship or been in China. Maybe those that are likely to travel from China are also the ones least likely to have the virus. Like students are generally young and healthy so they may be able to get rid of the virus easily if they get it. And they are the ones who want to come to Australia (and elsewhere), rather than retirees.
It's why I keep complaining the maths looks broken. Given the delay in symptoms after infections, and being infectious while asymptomatic, the numbers just don't add up. I have to wonder about the foecal/oral route of transmission.

If it is that, look out when it busts out in India!

Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Chinese tourists have now pretty much disappeared from Windsor, tourist based business are suffering economically, another knock on that people on the whole haven't thought about.
It's really starting to bite here, and no doubt everywhere that's happy to take the renminbi until someone gets sick. Our tourism industry body reckons it will cost at least $500M.

The supply chain is now starting to falter, and the economic fallout will go on for some time, and it'll spread, just like the virus itself.

Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
This is a paper on the pathology of influenza.
Fascinating and enlightening discussion, but aren't we on Covid-19 here?
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Old 15th February 2020, 12:04 PM   #1092
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
It's why I keep complaining the maths looks broken. Given the delay in symptoms after infections, and being infectious while asymptomatic, the numbers just don't add up. I have to wonder about the foecal/oral route of transmission.

If it is that, look out when it busts out in India!



It's really starting to bite here, and no doubt everywhere that's happy to take the renminbi until someone gets sick. Our tourism industry body reckons it will cost at least $500M.

The supply chain is now starting to falter, and the economic fallout will go on for some time, and it'll spread, just like the virus itself.



Fascinating and enlightening discussion, but aren't we on Covid-19 here?
What I worry about is the raw ingredients for many drugs are made in China, and we may start seeing shortages of pharmaceuticals especially antibiotics if China is more widely affected.
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Old 15th February 2020, 12:08 PM   #1093
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
As usual you are wrong, the staff giving the orders out don't wear gloves.
As usual you were wrong when you claimed having a few sniffles could be a Covid-19 symptom. I can be childish, too.
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Old 15th February 2020, 12:14 PM   #1094
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As usual you were wrong when you claimed having a few sniffles could be a Covid-19 symptom. I can be childish, too.
Since I didn't make that claim I could hardly be wrong...
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Old 15th February 2020, 12:22 PM   #1095
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Since I didn't make that claim I could hardly be wrong...
You said: 'About 2 weeks ago I had what I think was a bad cold'.

Quote:
Runny or stuffy nose.
Sore throat.
Cough.
Congestion.
Slight body aches or a mild headache.
Sneezing.
Low-grade fever.
Generally feeling unwell (malaise)
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/syc-20351605

I pointed out that Covid-19 does NOT present as a cold. The symptoms are: fever, aches, dry cough.

BTW One wouldn't expect the people taking orders to handle food as they have handled money.
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Old 15th February 2020, 12:56 PM   #1096
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The plastic gloves worn by food handlers/cashiers are not very useful, especially as typically employed.

Usually they are not changed often, if at all, during a shift. This is particularly senseless if the same person is handling the money and the food. Taking money from a customer, count it, handing back change, and then using the same (now contaminated) gloves to handle the food is useless in terms of protection.

One way in practice to make it work is for two different people to handle the money versus the food. The latter should wear gloves but always be alert to not contaminate the gloves: the food handler can't scratch their face, rub their hair, etc. and if they do then they must change the gloves for a new pair.

The person handling the money can wear gloves too, if they wish, but this will not protect the customers (or them as a matter of fact) unless they change the gloves every customer, which simply is not going to happen.

If a cashier doesn't actually need to touch the food (i.e. they just dispense it) they can use a disposable grab (a small sheet of wax paper for example) to transfer a food item from a display case, etc. to a bag. Bakers often do this.

Last edited by Giordano; 15th February 2020 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 15th February 2020, 01:54 PM   #1097
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So far I think I've only heard the virus referred to as "Covid-19" only a time or two. Everything else is about "The Coronavirus". Or better yet, "The Corona Virus".
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Old 15th February 2020, 02:10 PM   #1098
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
So far I think I've only heard the virus referred to as "Covid-19" only a time or two. Everything else is about "The Coronavirus". Or better yet, "The Corona Virus".

It’s SARS-COV-2 subject to ratification. The disease is COVID-19.


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Old 15th February 2020, 02:22 PM   #1099
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You said: 'About 2 weeks ago I had what I think was a bad cold'.



https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/syc-20351605



I pointed out that Covid-19 does NOT present as a cold. The symptoms are: fever, aches, dry cough.



BTW One wouldn't expect the people taking orders to handle food as they have handled money.
Which of course is still not what posted.

And despite your expectations you are wrong regarding the staff I mentioned at McDonald's.
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Old 15th February 2020, 02:25 PM   #1100
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
The plastic gloves worn by food handlers/cashiers are not very useful, especially as typically employed.

Usually they are not changed often, if at all, during a shift. This is particularly senseless if the same person is handling the money and the food. Taking money from a customer, count it, handing back change, and then using the same (now contaminated) gloves to handle the food is useless in terms of protection.

One way in practice to make it work is for two different people to handle the money versus the food. The latter should wear gloves but always be alert to not contaminate the gloves: the food handler can't scratch their face, rub their hair, etc. and if they do then they must change the gloves for a new pair.

The person handling the money can wear gloves too, if they wish, but this will not protect the customers (or them as a matter of fact) unless they change the gloves every customer, which simply is not going to happen.

If a cashier doesn't actually need to touch the food (i.e. they just dispense it) they can use a disposable grab (a small sheet of wax paper for example) to transfer a food item from a display case, etc. to a bag. Bakers often do this.
In the UK, the people who get the drinks, take the orders, use the tills, put the prepared food into bags or onto trays, drop in the sauces and any other condiments you request, put a napkin in the bag and hand straws out do not wear gloves.
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Old 15th February 2020, 02:54 PM   #1101
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Originally Posted by Capsid View Post
It’s SARS-COV-2 subject to ratification. The disease is COVID-19.


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Like nobody uses it correctly. And I mean news agencies. Here they usually use 'new coronavirus covid-19'.
If the virus is SARS-COV-2, the disease should have been named SARS-2.
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Old 15th February 2020, 03:00 PM   #1102
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
First death confirmed in Europe

A Chinese tourist has died in France after contracting the new coronavirus - the first fatality from the disease outside Asia.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51514837
This is interesting:
Quote:
He arrived in France on 16 January and was placed in quarantine in hospital in Paris on 25 January, she said.
That's 10 days the infection was likely incubating.
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Old 15th February 2020, 03:04 PM   #1103
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
SARS Covid-19 doesn't present as a cold, with runny nose and sneezing. All you get is a high fever, aches and pains and a dry cough.
Source?

Quote:
Secondly, I am pretty sure McDonalds workers wear latex gloves.
Watch these guys when you see them. Do they contaminate those gloves while they wear them for hours on end? Do they wash their hands by wetting them and drying them off? Do they put the gloves on without contaminating them?
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 15th February 2020, 03:07 PM   #1104
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
The issue is slightly personal since I once got firmly told off by Maria Zambon* for suggesting that flu encephalitis was due to flu infection because that implied flu was neurotropic, as opposed to encephalitis being immune mediated.
*https://isirv.org/site/index.php/avg...5-maria-zambon
Doesn't mean that is the same for all organs and all strains of flu, or that there aren't rare exceptions, or that the information hasn't changed with more genetic research.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 15th February 2020, 03:22 PM   #1105
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
We are talking about human flu viruses causing influenza in humans; as I previously noted pantropism is known in non-human influenza. What happens in cats, dogs, and birds is irrelevant.
Way to cherry pick.

Try again.
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Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 15th February 2020, 03:38 PM   #1106
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Images of new coronavirus just released
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Old 15th February 2020, 03:41 PM   #1107
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Fever, cough and shortness of breath (dyspnea) are the classic symptoms. You have to be careful interpreting this stuff with an anal-retentive attitude.

Clinical Characteristics of 138 Hospitalized Patients With 2019 Novel Coronavirus–Infected Pneumonia in Wuhan, China
Quote:
The most common symptoms at onset of illness were fever (136 [98.6%]), fatigue (96 [69.6%]), dry cough (82 [59.4%]), myalgia (48 [34.8%]), and dyspnea (43 [31.2%]). Less common symptoms were headache, dizziness, abdominal pain, diarrhea, nausea, and vomiting (Table 1). A total of 14 patients (10.1%) initially presented with diarrhea and nausea 1 to 2 days prior to development of fever and dyspnea.
The highlighted is especially important for people who have been exposed to know.
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Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 15th February 2020, 04:31 PM   #1108
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The highlighted is especially important for people who have been exposed to know.
That's why I've been mentioning it so often.

For those people, it's starting off like a dose of norovirus, right in the middle of the norovirus peak season. Be very easy to miss when people are expecting a respiratory disease.

I'd love to know how many people had only the gastric symptoms, which you'd think at least some people must have.
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Old 15th February 2020, 05:21 PM   #1109
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Clinical Characteristics of 138 Hospitalized Patients With 2019 Novel Coronavirus–Infected Pneumonia in Wuhan, ChinaThe highlighted is especially important for people who have been exposed to know.
Great, I'm on a tiny overpopulated island where homeopathy and witch doctory are considered the highest forms of medicine and I have extreme IBS

I should just go suck on my car exhaust now
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Old 15th February 2020, 05:48 PM   #1110
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Great, I'm on a tiny overpopulated island where homeopathy and witch doctory are considered the highest forms of medicine and I have extreme IBS

I should just go suck on my car exhaust now
Don't do that. We've had enough tragedy in this forum for the year.

We just have to stay safe until some effective antivirals and a vaccine are developed and distributed.

Alcohol based waterless hand cleaner, frequent hand washing, and social distancing should be fairly effective if you are consistent.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 15th February 2020, 06:21 PM   #1111
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From the NYT today*:
Quote:
The United States will also widen its search for possible infections: American health officials in five cities will begin testing some people with flulike symptoms for the coronavirus, according to Dr. Messonnier of the C.D.C.
Also another story exposing the stupidity and probably explaining why there was a new batch of infected folks:
Quote:
Down below, more than 1,000 crew members live and work elbow-to-elbow, preparing the passengers’ dishes and eating simple buffet-style meals together, with as many as four sharing a bathroom — and sharing the risk of possible infection from the coronavirus....

And according to employees, the infected crew members identified on Sunday had been eating in the mess hall alongside their co-workers.

It is not even clear how many people on the ship have the coronavirus because the authorities in Japan have only tested a fraction of all aboard, asserting they currently lack the resources to test them all.
That's insane!


*I'm on anonymous view and the links can't be reposted.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 15th February 2020 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 15th February 2020, 06:46 PM   #1112
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Its 25 per bathroom here...This is gonna be pretty.

We had a Japanese tourist who just left here showing symptoms back at his place now

https://globalnews.ca/news/6555259/j..._campaign=2014

yes, the governor with all the blustering confidence is THAT governor

Yes

The missile button governor
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Old 15th February 2020, 07:28 PM   #1113
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
From the NYT today*:


Also another story exposing the stupidity and probably explaining why there was a new batch of infected folks:
That's insane!


*I'm on anonymous view and the links can't be reposted.
Here is your link
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/10/b...uise-ship.html
Cannot read the article as it wants my email address and I do not want to give it.
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Old 15th February 2020, 08:33 PM   #1114
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Here is your link
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/10/b...uise-ship.html
Cannot read the article as it wants my email address and I do not want to give it.
Try Startpage anonymous view. But the story is probably on other sources by now.
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Old 15th February 2020, 08:59 PM   #1115
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Its 25 per bathroom here...This is gonna be pretty.
That sounds disgusting at the best of times and downright terrifying at the moment. I'd be going bush.

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
We had a Japanese tourist who just left here showing symptoms back at his place now
That's one of several cases that's starting to give the impression that the virus is already out of hand, but hasn't been figured out yet.

Another is an 82 yo South Korean man who hasn't been to China.

It seems to me it's out there multiplying, but it's only being picked up when it hits someone in their 80s, or other person who cops a severe dose. It certainly appears most of the cases circulating are pretty mild.

Imperial College originally proposed an infection rate where only 1/100 infections is showing enough symptoms to be tested. That seems to fit what I'm seeing.
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Old 16th February 2020, 12:10 AM   #1116
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Imperial College originally proposed an infection rate where only 1/100 infections is showing enough symptoms to be tested. That seems to fit what I'm seeing.
As in most people just croaked and no symptoms? Or most were so mild that they never suspected corona virus and ended up OK?
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Old 16th February 2020, 12:21 AM   #1117
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
As in most people just croaked and no symptoms? Or most were so mild that they never suspected corona virus and ended up OK?
The latter.
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Old 16th February 2020, 12:29 AM   #1118
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
As in most people just croaked and no symptoms? Or most were so mild that they never suspected corona virus and ended up OK?
I thought mild was the clue, but yes, people feeling a bit off-colour and not even going to the doctor. We know that's happening with some of the people diagnosed and who have completely recovered. They aren't going to be a rarity.

Meanwhile China's claiming the outbreak is under control, with a drop in new cases every day for three days in a row: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51519055

I do think the jury is still firmly out, though.
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Old 16th February 2020, 12:32 AM   #1119
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I went to see my GP last week. There was a sign on the door saying that if anyone with a virus has returned from travel to China recently they were not to enter the surgery but to run a specified phone number and wait outside.
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Old 16th February 2020, 12:46 AM   #1120
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
I went to see my GP last week. There was a sign on the door saying that if anyone with a virus has returned from travel to China recently they were not to enter the surgery but to run a specified phone number and wait outside.
I don't know what our doctors' surgeries are saying, but the number of public announcements in NZ to date is zero.
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