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Tags Gaza flotilla raid , Israel-Palestine conflict

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Old 4th October 2010, 07:05 PM   #4441
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Oh, the ole colourblindness thing, that's actually just another form of racism, it's more subtle, but racist nonetheless.

Hey, you wanted the terms of engagement to be PC and you got it.

so

Pot, kettle, black
so, not defining people by their skin color is now considered racism.....

bye bye have fun on the ignore list.
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Old 4th October 2010, 07:24 PM   #4442
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That's OK DC, many people use PC as a weapon in order to score cheap points and without realising just what they're stepping into.
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Old 5th October 2010, 12:06 AM   #4443
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
That's OK DC, many people use PC as a weapon in order to score cheap points and without realising just what they're stepping into.
Dream on, you cant hide your blatant racism behind your PC accusations.
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Old 5th October 2010, 12:12 AM   #4444
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
o.O what the heck are you talking about? that keeps geting pointed out over and over again, one of Thunder's favorite points.
There's another thread where he said Egypt lifted its blockade, when in reality it never did. Its brought up in passing. Egypt definitely has to do more which includes allowing in produce which is the base of the Gazan economy.
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Old 5th October 2010, 05:23 AM   #4445
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Originally Posted by bigjelmapro View Post
There's another thread where he said Egypt lifted its blockade, when in reality it never did. Its brought up in passing. Egypt definitely has to do more which includes allowing in produce which is the base of the Gazan economy.

Last edited by Thunder; 5th October 2010 at 05:27 AM.
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Old 5th October 2010, 05:33 AM   #4446
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I notice no one has explained Lionking's question of why only one ship was involved with any violence while the rest sailed on to a port on the Israeli coast.
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Old 5th October 2010, 05:35 AM   #4447
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Originally Posted by amb View Post
I notice no one has explained Lionking's question of why only one ship was involved with any violence while the rest sailed on to a port on the Israeli coast.
maybe that question should be directed at the people that were actually on board, how would we know?
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Old 5th October 2010, 05:49 AM   #4448
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May it be that they attacked the soldiers first as claimed?
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Old 5th October 2010, 05:50 AM   #4449
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Originally Posted by amb View Post
May it be that they attacked the soldiers first as claimed?
yes that might be.
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Old 5th October 2010, 06:11 AM   #4450
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
Dream on, you cant hide your blatant racism behind your PC accusations.
Ah DC, I thought I was on your ignore list. Lemme guess you made that up.

Like you made up the idea that the term brown people was somehow offensive and stuck with your views even after I showed you that it's used in the PC community.

So I take it you are unable to refute my claims......
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Old 5th October 2010, 06:15 AM   #4451
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Ah DC, I thought I was on your ignore list. Lemme guess you made that up.

Like you made up the idea that the term brown people was somehow offensive and stuck with your views even after I showed you that it's used in the PC community.

So I take it you are unable to refute my claims......
no, you are actually on that list, but still i press the button "View Post"

what the heck is the PC community?
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Old 5th October 2010, 06:27 AM   #4452
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
no, you are actually on that list, but still i press the button "View Post"

what the heck is the PC community?
Oh, so I'm only sort of on it then, OK, gotcha. I'm flattered that you've created extra work for yourself just to read my posts.

Remember that link I posted. the Restructure one ? Start poking around in there and eventually you'll discover the PC community for yourself.

Check out Tim Wise, Racialicious. When you've perused those, I can give you more.
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Old 5th October 2010, 09:45 AM   #4453
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Gas masks enable offensive operations against opponents armed with tear gas. This makes them offensive, in the same way that missile defense systems enable offensive operations against opponents armed with tactical nuclear missiles.

The U.S.S.R. was, as a practical matter, right to object to the proposed "Star Wars" missile defense system as an offensive system that upset the balance of power to the benefit of the U.S.


Aw, poor Israeli navy having their balance of power upset by some gas masks!



Quote:
Out of curiosity, B_P, how many people not engaged in offensive operations against Israeli boarding parties were given any cause to wish they had brought gas masks?
Fortunately, Israel's offensive tear gas weapon was neutralized by the freedom-loving wind.
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Last edited by JihadJane; 5th October 2010 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 5th October 2010, 10:01 AM   #4454
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Oh, so I'm only sort of on it then, OK, gotcha. I'm flattered that you've created extra work for yourself just to read my posts.

Remember that link I posted. the Restructure one ? Start poking around in there and eventually you'll discover the PC community for yourself.

Check out Tim Wise, Racialicious. When you've perused those, I can give you more.
There is nothing in the Restructure article that could be used to argue that casually calling Egypt "brown peoples land" ("... flying over to the brown peoples land (Egypt)") isn't racist.
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Old 5th October 2010, 12:22 PM   #4455
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
There is nothing in the Restructure article that could be used to argue that casually calling Egypt "brown peoples land" ("... flying over to the brown peoples land (Egypt)") isn't racist.
The fact that an anti-racism activist uses that term is.
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Old 5th October 2010, 02:54 PM   #4456
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
The fact that an anti-racism activist uses that term is.
In what context?

I don't recall anyone referring to a sovereign country as "the brown people's land" or anything remotely similar.

I'll have another look, though.

~~~~~~~~~~

Later: No, it appears you are talking out of your assumptions, but perhaps I've missed something. If so, what?
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Last edited by JihadJane; 5th October 2010 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 5th October 2010, 03:15 PM   #4457
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
The fact that an anti-racism activist uses that term is.
JihadJane quoted YOUR post.

he never used the term himself. your post is dishonest.
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Old 5th October 2010, 03:37 PM   #4458
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Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
JihadJane quoted YOUR post.

he never used the term himself. your post is dishonest.
What are you talking about?

The restructure blog is an anti racist site run by an anti racist activist. I was hoping you'd figure that out by yourselves. I'll lower my expectations in the future.

Now if the term "brown people" doesn't set off any alarm bells over there, why on earth should I expect it to freak you three out so bad ? Are you pulling some sort of mega political correctness thing ?
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Old 5th October 2010, 04:43 PM   #4459
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
What are you talking about?

The restructure blog is an anti racist site run by an anti racist activist. I was hoping you'd figure that out by yourselves. I'll lower my expectations in the future.

Now if the term "brown people" doesn't set off any alarm bells over there, why on earth should I expect it to freak you three out so bad ? Are you pulling some sort of mega political correctness thing ?
It sets alarm bells over here but not there because the way you used "brown people" on this thread is completely different to how it is used in the article you linked too.


Evidently, though, this vast difference in usage is imperceptible to you.

The article is talking about how empathy is influenced by skin color and the phrase "brown people" is being used as a neutral description of people with brown skin.

Your use it it to describe Egypt , in the context of a generalized rant about shrieking, jumping, protesting, white leftist activists types, your beloved PC community , appeared to be no more than racism-flavored trolling.

Perhaps, though, you can offer a different reason for casually referring to Egypt as "brown peoples land". I'd be interested to hear it.
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Old 5th October 2010, 04:50 PM   #4460
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Originally Posted by amb View Post
I notice no one has explained Lionking's question of why only one ship was involved with any violence while the rest sailed on to a port on the Israeli coast.
No great surprise, it wasn't answered earlier. It, of course, couldn't be due to the IHH operatives on board arming themselves and beating the boarders with metal poles.
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Old 5th October 2010, 05:15 PM   #4461
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
It sets alarm bells over here but not there because the way you used "brown people" on this thread is completely different to how it is used in the article you linked too.


Evidently, though, this vast difference in usage is imperceptible to you.

The article is talking about how empathy is influenced by skin color and the phrase "brown people" is being used as a neutral description of people with brown skin.

Your use it it to describe Egypt , in the context of a generalized rant about shrieking, jumping, protesting, white leftist activists types, your beloved PC community , appeared to be no more than racism-flavored trolling.

Perhaps, though, you can offer a different reason for casually referring to Egypt as "brown peoples land". I'd be interested to hear it.
So it's not so much the actual term then, excellent. You've been doing some research

It's the WAY I used, a little to casually. OK, next time I'll use it more formally and capitalise it Brown People...no sweat

I'm sorry my argument offended your sensibilities, but now that we're over this terminology thing, care to address it?
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Old 5th October 2010, 05:30 PM   #4462
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
So it's not so much the actual term then, excellent. You've been doing some research

It's the WAY I used, a little to casually. OK, next time I'll use it more formally and capitalise it Brown People...no sweat

I'm sorry my argument offended your sensibilities, but now that we're over this terminology thing, care to address it?
Address what?

The actual term "brown people" was never the issue nor was your hard-to-spot, alleged "argument". You labeling Egypt "brown peoples land" is the issue.

The issue also has nothing to do with "offending sensibilities" though I understand that that is what a troll hopes to do.
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Old 5th October 2010, 05:57 PM   #4463
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Address what?

The actual term "brown people" was never the issue nor was your hard-to-spot, alleged "argument". You labeling Egypt "brown peoples land" is the issue.

The issue also has nothing to do with "offending sensibilities" though I understand that that is what a troll hopes to do.
Oh, so it's the phrase that's got your knickers all atwist.

Let's just change it then to.....a land largely inhabited by non whites, or, if you really want to go for the gold, the land of the other.

Satisfied?

Continue please.
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Old 5th October 2010, 11:03 PM   #4464
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Oh, so it's the phrase that's got your knickers all atwist.

Let's just change it then to.....a land largely inhabited by non whites, or, if you really want to go for the gold, the land of the other.

Satisfied?

Continue please.
Why are you so obsessed with people's skin color?
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Old 6th October 2010, 03:23 AM   #4465
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Oh, so it's the phrase that's got your knickers all atwist.

Let's just change it then to.....a land largely inhabited by non whites, or, if you really want to go for the gold, the land of the other.

Satisfied?

Continue please.

Are you aware that racism harms people?
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Old 6th October 2010, 04:02 AM   #4466
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Quote:
Out of curiosity, B_P, how many people not engaged in offensive operations against Israeli boarding parties were given any cause to wish they had brought gas masks?
Well, I don't think gas was deployed, so that's a moot point. However, in terms of other deployment of violence that the boarding parties used, ie. electroshock weapons, the answer would be; quite a lot (not to mention, had gas been deployed the obvious question is all of them, because gas is indiscriminate, but I digress). Two cases in point; Australian photographer for Fairfax (one of our biggest media companies) Kate Geraghty was attacked with an electroshock weapon without reason or provocation, which corroborates many other accounts from the night. Second, when the IDF boarded the 'Jewish' flotilla a week or so ago and encountered no resistance the activists were attacked in the same unprovoked manner with the same electroshock weapons. What we have established here is a pattern of abuse which I think answers what I am sure was supposed to be your rhetorical question quite definitively: protective equipment that might offer some measure of defence against unprovoked and disproportionate aggression would indeed be prudent for anyone aboard a vessel boarded by the IDF.
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Old 6th October 2010, 04:22 AM   #4467
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Originally Posted by bit_pattern View Post
Well, I don't think gas was deployed...
Eye witnesses report tear gas being used aganist the Mavi Marmara, e.g.
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Old 6th October 2010, 04:43 AM   #4468
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I stand corrrected...
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Old 6th October 2010, 05:40 AM   #4469
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Address what?

The actual term "brown people" was never the issue nor was your hard-to-spot, alleged "argument". You labeling Egypt "brown peoples land" is the issue.

The issue also has nothing to do with "offending sensibilities" though I understand that that is what a troll hopes to do.
If the Egyptians were labeled as Albinos, would there be such an outrage and calls of racism?
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Old 6th October 2010, 05:44 AM   #4470
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Originally Posted by amb View Post
If the Egyptians were labeled as Albinos, would there be such an outrage and calls of racism?
from me, yes.

what the heck is going on with labeling countries by the skin color of its inhabitants? What does it matter what color their skin has anyway? They are human beings like you and me, no matter what color.
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Old 6th October 2010, 07:59 AM   #4471
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Originally Posted by amb View Post
If the Egyptians were labeled as Albinos, would there be such an outrage and calls of racism?

Why would anyone label Egypt "Albino peoples land"?
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Old 6th October 2010, 08:11 AM   #4472
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Are you aware that racism harms people?
Yes, and I'm sure the poor defenseless people of Egypt are sleeping soundly in their beds knowing that JihadJane is out there in the cyber world protecting them.
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Old 6th October 2010, 08:17 AM   #4473
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Yes, and I'm sure the poor defenseless people of Egypt are sleeping soundly in their beds knowing that JihadJane is out there in the cyber world protecting them.
How do you think racism harms people?
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Old 6th October 2010, 09:49 AM   #4474
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
The actual term "brown people" was never the issue nor was your hard-to-spot, alleged "argument". You labeling Egypt "brown peoples land" is the issue.

I thought the issue was the Gaza flotilla.
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Old 6th October 2010, 10:07 AM   #4475
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
I thought the issue was the Gaza flotilla.
Hopefully, eventually, it will be again, but right now it's all about me
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Old 6th October 2010, 12:09 PM   #4476
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
What, you mean other than a bunch of white leftist activists who usually spend their time calling other people racists jumping on a plane, flying over to the brown peoples land ( Egypt ) and telling them that they're doing it wrong ? Or that those same activist types are always shrieking about climate change and our dependence on fossil fuels think nothing of hopping on a jet and flying across the ocean, like they did to protest at Copenhagen ?

Then blogging about it like it was some sort of adventure holiday

Other than those, nothing really.
So you think it is wrong for people from Canada to protest something Egypt is doing? why? i don't get that.

And yes the example you brought up is a pretty crazy hypocrite. But i dont really see what that has to do with the protest in Egypt.
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Old 6th October 2010, 03:00 PM   #4477
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So back to the Flotillas

So Hamas, a group who's stated goal is to destroy Israel has a habit of launching rockets into Israel. Because Hamas violates most Geneva conventions by using human shields, Israel decides to intercept rockets from being shipped into the country via supply ships since this will lessen the casualties caused by Hamas using human shields as their primary defense.

To do this they set up a naval blockade and inspect all shipments. The Flottillas rather than trying to deliver aid concentrate on breaking the naval blockade. An act of war. One which if successful will allow countries like Iran to resume shipping missiles back to Hamas.

Despite the flotillas agressive act of war and intentionally carrying out an act of war against Israel, they also decide the attack the soldiers boarding to stop the ship (which is how a blockade works). There was no question that the boats would be boarded. That's what is supposed to happen on a blockade. Israel did not come attack their ship, the ship attacked the blockade which can only result in soldiers boarding the ship to redirect it.

The IDF who has to face brutal attacks dares to taser people who have broken a military blockade and commit an act of war against them. Oh the humanity. Don't want to be tasered? Don't break a military blockade. Just deliver your aid to port so the people can get it. If you don't want to be attacked back in a non-lethal manner, don't attack a military. If you don't want to be shot to death, then don't attack a military and then attack their soldiers. If you want to deliver supplies, then deliver them to the appropriate port.
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Old 6th October 2010, 03:38 PM   #4478
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
So you think it is wrong for people from Canada to protest something Egypt is doing? why? i don't get that.
One of the left's cornerstone stances is insisting upon the west's non-interference in the affairs of other sovereign nations and cultures. If Egypt decides it wants to sever ties with Hamas, just how does the left try to justify committing acts that they demand others don't ?

Short answer ism, they don't they just ignore the whole issue, pat themselves on the back for a job well done and look to see themselves on the evening news.

it's also condescending, as if the Egyptian pro-Palestinian movement can't, or won't do what they, the Canadian activists, think needs to be done. There is an Egyptian pro Palestinian movement...right ?

If the left wants to protest about Egypt, then why haven't they initiated a BDS campaign like they did with Israel ? Or protest the massive amounts of foreign aid sent to Egypt, like they do to Israel ?

The environmental angle is a loosing proposition, I know that, like sheesh, thinking that activists would actually try to reduce their carbon footprint in anything more than a cosmetic way. Have you ever heard an eco-warrior stand up and say something like "for the health of the planet, I will never, ever travel for a holiday again"

No ?

I have, just one, and I've been using this argument for 6 years. Sure there's all sorts of justifications for travelling, in this case, to tell the Egyptians what to do, but there's the whole experiencing other cultures thing which i hear the most often. Give that up? Take direct action ? Acknowledge that you're part of the problem ? Heck no !

Just protest and complain about what other people are doing.
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Old 6th October 2010, 04:00 PM   #4479
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
One of the left's cornerstone stances is insisting upon the west's non-interference in the affairs of other sovereign nations and cultures. If Egypt decides it wants to sever ties with Hamas, just how does the left try to justify committing acts that they demand others don't ?

Short answer ism, they don't they just ignore the whole issue, pat themselves on the back for a job well done and look to see themselves on the evening news.

it's also condescending, as if the Egyptian pro-Palestinian movement can't, or won't do what they, the Canadian activists, think needs to be done. There is an Egyptian pro Palestinian movement...right ?

If the left wants to protest about Egypt, then why haven't they initiated a BDS campaign like they did with Israel ? Or protest the massive amounts of foreign aid sent to Egypt, like they do to Israel ?

The environmental angle is a loosing proposition, I know that, like sheesh, thinking that activists would actually try to reduce their carbon footprint in anything more than a cosmetic way. Have you ever heard an eco-warrior stand up and say something like "for the health of the planet, I will never, ever travel for a holiday again"

No ?

I have, just one, and I've been using this argument for 6 years. Sure there's all sorts of justifications for travelling, in this case, to tell the Egyptians what to do, but there's the whole experiencing other cultures thing which i hear the most often. Give that up? Take direct action ? Acknowledge that you're part of the problem ? Heck no !

Just protest and complain about what other people are doing.
So in Canada the left does not protest Human rights violations of other countries? Here the left actually demands our government to officially talk about Human rights violations in China and Iran for example.

About traveling, there are people that do actually stop things they would like to do, like having a car or a bigger car, but rather use bikes and public transportations, there are people that actually use alternative ways of travel for holly days.

And i think most people that do not deny Global Warming are aware that they are part of the problem.
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Old 6th October 2010, 04:39 PM   #4480
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
So in Canada the left does not protest Human rights violations of other countries? Here the left actually demands our government to officially talk about Human rights violations in China and Iran for example.
Not really, save for Israel. They're rather reluctant to address human rights issues in other countries, especially in those inhabited by "the other". Unless, of course, there's some sort of "the west made it happen" angle to it. On the far left forum that I read daily, issues like that are swept under the carpet and ignored.

FWIW, I'm an ex lefty, I left the left because I got tired of playing oppression olympics and who is more left, who is more moral, who is more righteous. I see the attitude hasn't evolved.

Yes, I'm aware that people use alternative transportation. I certainly do but for my own selfish reasons. I hate driving and I actually like cycling and walking. Except somebody stole my bicycle, so I'm in the market for a new one.

What I'm loathe to do is, go to protests against the corporations, or against oil and gas because I like having those things available. Sure, I could squawk and moan, that's easy, and lets face it, going to protests is kind of fun. I'd sure feel like a heel patronising those industries I'm protesting, especially if I was consuming their products "just for fun"

Quote:
And i think most people that do not deny Global Warming are aware that they are part of the problem.
Yes, I agree and most people simply shrug it off by saying things like " that's for my government to worry about".

Most people don't go to protests though. it's only a small fraction and of that small fraction we have a tiny fraction of "extreme" protesters like the Freedom Marchers and the MM passengers. These are the guys i expect the most out of, to opt out of the spoils of capitalism, to eschew the luxuries that western society provides us. When they fail to do that, when they fail to live up to ideals they demand of others, is when I call shenanigans.
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