ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Gaza flotilla raid , Israel-Palestine conflict

Closed Thread
Old 16th January 2011, 06:15 AM   #4601
funk de fino
Dreaming of unicorns
 
funk de fino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UAE
Posts: 11,938
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
What, saying Saddam would have had the same rights to attack someone attacking his country is hypocrisy? Frankly, I don't see how.
So it would have been OK to gas people not from his country? A dispproportionate response is permitted if it is terrorists from another country? Lets not pretend that running a blockade is all that Israel is doing.
__________________

Stundie - Avoided like the plaque, its a scottish turn of phrase.
funk de fino is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2011, 12:42 PM   #4602
Mycroft
High Priest of Ed
 
Mycroft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,794
Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
You are lying.
please show me where I claimed this....come on, don't let fear of failure stop you from looking. Find where I said that Arabs were discriminated against because their birth date is not in hebrew. I said that it is how they are identified as non jews in response to someones silly claim that the ID card no longer indicated if you were a Jew.... You are lying again.
Amazing how you can call me a liar and then verify the truth of what I said.

Did you ever show an instance where an Arabic birthdate led to some sort of discrimination?

Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
your denial that non jews are disadvantaged in the home of the Jews is frankly laughable..If there is no difference can you tell me exactly what the point is of being the home of the jews....why do they bother? Why do they spend so much energy insisting that they be recognized as a Jewish state? Do you think its so that they can treat jews and non jews exactly this same???
You still don’t understand how this works. If you make claims, it’s on you to provide evidence for them. Right now you seem to be making claims about the meaning of “Jewish State”, so you have claims to support. Please support them.

Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
sigh....

Israel is a form of democracy, they like to call it a "jewish democracy" which....to me....is little different to the concept of a "white democracy" please tell me what differences you see between them.
I’m not aware of any Israeli government documents that refer to Israel as a “Jewish democracy”, so when you refer to “they” I don’t know who you mean by that.

I would imagine that “white democracy” is a democracy where only white people get to vote and “Jewish democracy” is a democracy where only Jews get to vote, but since I see no examples of either in this world, I don’t see why comparing two imaginary terms serves any purpose.

\
Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
I see a "modern western democracy" as being where all citizens are equal and not divided into categories...can't think of a modern western democracy" that does that. I know its illegal under Australian Democracy....and American democracy....but you may have a more tolerant attitude to that sort of thing.
If I call the United States a “Christian Nation” I need to define what that means in order for the statement to have any meaning. If I say it means that culturally Christianity dominates the United States and that the US government observes important Christian holidays, I may be correct, but that doesn’t mean that non-Christians are discriminated against.

Your tactic seems to be to just throw out the term and then leave it to the reader to guess what it means and to use their imaginations to fill in the blanks of what “discrimination” goes on. I think that’s both lazy and dishonest.

Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
I think Israel needs to join modern democracy but in order to do that will need to let go of a few quaint pseudo theocracy principles.
Can you make a list of these theocratic principles you are speaking of?
Mycroft is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2011, 12:46 PM   #4603
Mycroft
High Priest of Ed
 
Mycroft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,794
Originally Posted by funk de fino View Post
So it would have been OK to gas people not from his country?
I can't think of anything I've said ever that even remotely suggests I think anyone gassing anyone else anywhere is okay.



Originally Posted by funk de fino View Post
A dispproportionate response is permitted if it is terrorists from another country? Lets not pretend that running a blockade is all that Israel is doing.
I'm not pretending anything. This particular conversation is about conducting a blockade against an enemy. Please don't move the goalposts.
Mycroft is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2011, 12:49 PM   #4604
Mycroft
High Priest of Ed
 
Mycroft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,794
Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
hey...its gone the full circle.
Because you're being obtuse.

Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
Yes...they should have a seaport....they already do. You can see it on google earth if you like...shall we go around the circle another time?
Are you suggesting that Hamas should have use of this seaport simply because the structure physically exists?


Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
When do you think you will be up to discussing the right to stop and search?
What's stopping you from raising an issue if you think it's important?
Mycroft is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2011, 12:52 PM   #4605
Thunder
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,918
Gaza should be able to use their seaport, but only if a third-party inspects all cargo that comes in first.

Such as the Jordanians, Egyptians, Russians, the UN, or a mixture of all 4.

But should Hamas be able to run the seaport all by itself? Nope.
Thunder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2011, 03:30 PM   #4606
The Fool
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,409
Originally Posted by amb View Post
Would you trust the Taliban or Hamas to do the right thing in the security of your nation ?
no...how is that relevant?
__________________
And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good.
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?
R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance)

Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.
The Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2011, 03:38 PM   #4607
The Fool
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,409
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Amazing how you can call me a liar and then verify the truth of what I said.

Did you ever show an instance where an Arabic birthdate led to some sort of discrimination?
Lol...seing as I never said that the birthdate was the source of discrimination.....once again I can only tell you what happened. It came up because some clown said that the indication that you were a Jew (or not) had been removed from the card......so what happens now? you repeat the lie a third time Maybe you could quote where I said it rather than flap around saying I did???? good idea???
__________________
And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good.
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?
R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance)

Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.
The Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2011, 03:41 PM   #4608
The Fool
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,409
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Because you're being obtuse.



Are you suggesting that Hamas should have use of this seaport simply because the structure physically exists?
No...I'm saying they have use of it because its in use....sorry if thats too difficult to grasp. Its a bit like the concept that I am wearing a hat because I have a hat on my head.



Quote:
What's stopping you from raising an issue if you think it's important?
I have raised it. I have suggetsed to wildcat that its what he is really on about but lacks courage to say.

he seems happier asking a neverending series of circular questions and never getting to any point.
__________________
And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good.
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?
R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance)

Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.
The Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2011, 06:07 PM   #4609
Mycroft
High Priest of Ed
 
Mycroft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,794
Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
No...I'm saying they have use of it because its in use....
Ah-ha, at last a claim.

Can you verify it? My understanding is it's like the Gaza airport. Physically there, but unused. Please provide evidence otherwise.

Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
I have raised it. I have suggetsed to wildcat that its what he is really on about but lacks courage to say.
Right, because you can't quite grasp the concept of attacking the argument and not the arguer. Wildcat expresses opinions you don't like, so instead of addressing those opinions with facts, you make nasty innuendos about Wildcat instead.

Let's hear what you have to say about "the right to stop and search". Asking why Wildcat doesn't discuss it isn't "brining it up" if nobody but you can see where you're (not) going with it.

Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
he seems happier asking a neverending series of circular questions and never getting to any point.
Except his point is quite clear to everyone else. You're the only one who seems to have a problem with it.
Mycroft is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2011, 06:15 PM   #4610
Mycroft
High Priest of Ed
 
Mycroft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,794
Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
Lol...seing as I never said that the birthdate was the source of discrimination.....
Don't you ever get tired of this pedantic nonsense? You cited the difference as evidence of discrimination, not the source. Are you really unable to discern the difference from context?

Are you going to support your claims about the meaning of "Jewish State"? Or are you backing away from that?

How about defining the terms "Jewish democracy" or "white democracy"? Are you going to identify who "they" are that you claim uses the term?

C'mon Fool, you're leaving a lot of questions unanswered here.
Mycroft is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2011, 07:25 PM   #4611
The Fool
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,409
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Ah-ha, at last a claim.
ah-ha, at last you have seen it? I have said this before...in this very thread.

Quote:
Can you verify it? My understanding is it's like the Gaza airport. Physically there, but unused. Please provide evidence otherwise.
ok, verify it please....your claim about the airport. we can all play this game if you like.

The Gaza port is used by palestinian fishing boats. I'm not going to verify that for you either.




Quote:
Right, because you can't quite grasp the concept of attacking the argument and not the arguer. Wildcat expresses opinions you don't like, so instead of addressing those opinions with facts, you make nasty innuendos about Wildcat instead.

Let's hear what you have to say about "the right to stop and search". Asking why Wildcat doesn't discuss it isn't "brining it up" if nobody but you can see where you're (not) going with it.



Except his point is quite clear to everyone else. You're the only one who seems to have a problem with it.
ok if its quite clear maybe you can articulate it....so far all he can do is repeat the same answered question over and over...
__________________
And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good.
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?
R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance)

Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

Last edited by The Fool; 16th January 2011 at 07:26 PM.
The Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2011, 07:36 PM   #4612
The Fool
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,409
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Don't you ever get tired of this pedantic nonsense?
sorry that you regard honesty as pedantic nonsense. I didn't say it...you can't find it. Please stop lying.
Quote:
You cited the difference as evidence of discrimination
Jesus Christ on a pogo stick....I sited it as evidence that the ID card has not had the identification of Jew/non jew removed. I have told you this a number of times yet you still keep chanting a lie.

Quote:
Are you going to support your claims about the meaning of "Jewish State"? Or are you backing away from that?
what claims would they be.....maybe you can make some up for me?

Quote:
How about defining the terms "Jewish democracy" or "white democracy"? Are you going to identify who "they" are that you claim uses the term?


C'mon Fool, you're leaving a lot of questions unanswered here.
Thats right...new policy, i am going to ignore your usual stream of irrelevant and divergent questions that you always throw up in abundance when you can't find an example of things you claim I have said..get used to it.
__________________
And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good.
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?
R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance)

Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

Last edited by The Fool; 16th January 2011 at 07:37 PM.
The Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2011, 09:59 PM   #4613
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 59,856
Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
hey...its gone the full circle.

Yes...they should have a seaport....they already do. You can see it on google earth if you like...shall we go around the circle another time?

When do you think you will be up to discussing the right to stop and search?
Ah, we have feigned confusion again.

I'm not buying the act The Fool.

Do you think Hamas should have a seaport? Put on your big girl's blouse (is that how you say it down there?) and answer the question. "Yes" or "no" will suffice.

Hint: they don't have one now.
__________________
Vive la liberté!
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2011, 10:01 PM   #4614
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 59,856
Originally Posted by funk de fino View Post
WWII. Seriously. Too funny.
funk can't find his courage either.

Should Hamas have a seaport funk?

Originally Posted by funk de fino View Post
Is North Korea a country? Is it part of the international community and is it breaking rules laid down by that international community?
Oh look, funk supports "collective punishment"!
__________________
Vive la liberté!
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2011, 10:03 PM   #4615
The Fool
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,409
Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Ah, we have feigned confusion again.

I'm not buying the act The Fool.

Do you think Hamas should have a seaport? Put on your big girl's blouse (is that how you say it down there?) and answer the question. "Yes" or "no" will suffice.

Hint: they don't have one now.
already answered Yes a number of times. Why do you repeat that question continually tourettes?


Hint: you are wrong when you say they don't have a seaport....it does exist, if you can make it vanish that would be one cool trick.

lets just check something....you know that a seaport is a sheltered area where ships can dock? You do know Its not a piece of flat bread filled with meat and spices (thats a kebab)

or maybe you want to reveal the super secret issue that this question apparently refers to but you can't think of words to articulate it?....need a drumroll?
__________________
And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good.
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?
R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance)

Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

Last edited by The Fool; 16th January 2011 at 10:07 PM.
The Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2011, 10:07 PM   #4616
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 59,856
Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
lets just check something....you know that a seaport is a sheltered area where ships can dock?
Ships can dock at Gaza?

C'mon Fool, be a big girl and answer the question: should Hamas get a seaport?
__________________
Vive la liberté!
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2011, 12:07 AM   #4617
Mycroft
High Priest of Ed
 
Mycroft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,794
Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
ah-ha, at last you have seen it? I have said this before...in this very thread.


ok, verify it please....your claim about the airport. we can all play this game if you like.
No problem. Unlike you, I don't mind backing up my claims. Only it turns out there is more activity at the Gaza airport than when last I checked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5a3x3l93t8

Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
The Gaza port is used by palestinian fishing boats. I'm not going to verify that for you either.
Of course you're not.

Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
ok if its quite clear maybe you can articulate it....so far all he can do is repeat the same answered question over and over...
I already did, fool.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...64#post6763864
Mycroft is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2011, 12:19 AM   #4618
Mycroft
High Priest of Ed
 
Mycroft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,794
Originally Posted by The Fool View Post

what claims would they be.....maybe you can make some up for me?
Ah, so suddenly you can't find your own claims. That's a new twist, usually you're saying you can't find my claims, even while you're arguing with them.

So let me help you.

You said, "...your denial that non jews are disadvantaged in the home of the Jews is frankly laughable..If there is no difference can you tell me exactly what the point is of being the home of the jews....why do they bother? "

The question assumes that non-Jews are disadvantaged in Israel. That's a claim, back it up.


Then you said, "Why do they spend so much energy insisting that they be recognized as a Jewish state? Do you think its so that they can treat jews and non jews exactly this same???"

Again, the question assumes that Jews and non-Jews are treated differently. That's your claim, back it up.

Then you said, "Israel is a form of democracy, they like to call it a "jewish democracy" which....to me....is little different to the concept of a "white democracy" please tell me what differences you see between them."

Who is "they" that call it a "Jewish democracy"? Is it the Israeli government? How do you define "Jewish democracy"? Is that a democracy where only Jews get to vote? If so, show us the evidence. If not, then define the term for us so we can discuss it.

C'mon, buddy. The questions are right before you. Now is not the time to run away.
Mycroft is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2011, 03:20 AM   #4619
The Fool
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,409
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Ah, so suddenly you can't find your own claims. That's a new twist, usually you're saying you can't find my claims, even while you're arguing with them.

So let me help you.

You said, "...your denial that non jews are disadvantaged in the home of the Jews is frankly laughable..If there is no difference can you tell me exactly what the point is of being the home of the jews....why do they bother? "

The question assumes that non-Jews are disadvantaged in Israel. That's a claim, back it up.


Then you said, "Why do they spend so much energy insisting that they be recognized as a Jewish state? Do you think its so that they can treat jews and non jews exactly this same???"

Again, the question assumes that Jews and non-Jews are treated differently. That's your claim, back it up.

Then you said, "Israel is a form of democracy, they like to call it a "jewish democracy" which....to me....is little different to the concept of a "white democracy" please tell me what differences you see between them."

Who is "they" that call it a "Jewish democracy"? Is it the Israeli government? How do you define "Jewish democracy"? Is that a democracy where only Jews get to vote? If so, show us the evidence. If not, then define the term for us so we can discuss it.

C'mon, buddy. The questions are right before you. Now is not the time to run away.
so Mycroft brings the Jewish state crumbling to the Ground. Turns out there is no difference between Jews and non Jews in Israel.

Its the home of anyone all equal...no differences. All proclaimed behind a smokescreen of cute and irrelevant questions.

cute....you demand I define common terms....like "jewish Democracy" well, I'm actually happy to use it in the same way Israel defines it....also happy to say "Jewish and democratic state" whatever. Its a common term so I'm not going to waste time redefining it.....but you may be able to squeeze some more distraction from it.
__________________
And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good.
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?
R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance)

Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.
The Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2011, 03:22 AM   #4620
The Fool
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,409
Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Ships can dock at Gaza?
good work, getting closer.....
Its used by fishing boats, of late Israel has prevented most ships from entering.
Are we getting closer to the ultimate question or would you like to spend a few posts asking this one over and over as well?
Quote:

C'mon Fool, be a big girl and answer the question: should Hamas get a seaport?
Yes...but I don't see how they can "get" something thats already there.

how many times is that?
Feel free to ask it again.



can I give you a hint....the question I think you want to ask is if Israel should be able to block all traffic.
__________________
And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good.
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?
R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance)

Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

Last edited by The Fool; 17th January 2011 at 03:27 AM.
The Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2011, 09:37 PM   #4621
Mycroft
High Priest of Ed
 
Mycroft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,794
Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
so Mycroft brings the Jewish state crumbling to the Ground. Turns out there is no difference between Jews and non Jews in Israel.
That is not my claim. What I asked is for you to back up your assertions, which you have once again refused to do. You claim non-Jews are disadvantaged in Israel. Please provide your evidence.

Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
Its the home of anyone all equal...no differences. All proclaimed behind a smokescreen of cute and irrelevant questions.
Typical. When I question your assertion, you assert they my opinion must be the exact polar opposite of the one you're putting forth. Your bad logic is a transparent attempt to deflect attention from your inability to provide evidence for your assertions.



Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
cute....you demand I define common terms....like "jewish Democracy" well, I'm actually happy to use it in the same way Israel defines it....
That's fine, just tell us what that is. How does the Israeli government define "Jewish Democracy"?

See, I don't think you can find an Israeli government definition of "Jewish Democracy".



Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
...also happy to say "Jewish and democratic state" whatever. Its a common term so I'm not going to waste time redefining it.....but you may be able to squeeze some more distraction from it.
"Jewish and Democratic" is a term I have heard, but if you want to claim it means non-Jews are treated poorly, then it's still on you to back up your claim with evidence.

You have also failed to back up your assertion that the Gaza port is used by fishing boats and failed to list the "few quaint pseudo theocracy principles" Israel needs to let go of.

You're really against bringing any evidence to the table, aren't you?
Mycroft is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2011, 10:10 PM   #4622
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 59,856
Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
Should Hamas get a seaport The Fool?
__________________
Vive la liberté!
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th January 2011, 03:03 AM   #4623
The Fool
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,409
Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Should Hamas get a seaport The Fool?
ok, this has reached the silly point.

Yes.

how many times now?


It appears you and mycroft have shut up shop.
__________________
And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good.
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?
R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance)

Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

Last edited by The Fool; 18th January 2011 at 03:09 AM.
The Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th January 2011, 04:17 AM   #4624
amb
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,777
I say yes with reservations. It has to have neutral guards to inspect every little bit of cargo unloaded.
amb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th January 2011, 04:54 AM   #4625
JihadJane
not a camel
 
JihadJane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 74,017
Especially anything that looks like an H-bomb.... or might contain chocolate.
__________________
empty void in space epic wasteland so dark you have no direction and die in sensory deprivation madness all your fault anyway jerk ~ Hlafordlaes
JihadJane is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th January 2011, 06:55 AM   #4626
IDB87
Illuminator
 
IDB87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,022
Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
ok, this has reached the silly point.

Yes.

how many times now?


It appears you and mycroft have shut up shop.
Why should they get a seaport if you don't trust them to police it as the responsibility dictates?

You would be better off arguing that Palestine (Gaza) should get a seaport and that Hamas goes no where near it.
IDB87 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th January 2011, 06:56 AM   #4627
IDB87
Illuminator
 
IDB87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,022
Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Especially anything that looks like an H-bomb.... or might contain chocolate.
An H-bomb made of chocolate? I could get behind that sort of proliferation.
IDB87 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th January 2011, 07:14 AM   #4628
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 59,856
Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
ok, this has reached the silly point.

Yes.

how many times now?


It appears you and mycroft have shut up shop.
So yes, you don't have any issues at all with Hamas importing weapons from Iran and Syria, or at least don't think they should be prevented from it. I can understand why it took you months to admit this.
__________________
Vive la liberté!
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th January 2011, 07:17 AM   #4629
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 59,856
Originally Posted by amb View Post
I say yes with reservations. It has to have neutral guards to inspect every little bit of cargo unloaded.
And what countries have agreed to supply these neutral guards? How will they keep Hamas out? Will they be willing to fight Hamas if necessary? What systems will they put in place to prevent cargo transfer at sea?
__________________
Vive la liberté!
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th January 2011, 07:35 AM   #4630
Thunder
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,918
Hamas should not have a seaport. Gaza should have a seaport, run by the Jordanians, the UN, Egypt, some other third-party, or a combo of all 4.

But no, Hamas should not be allowed to run their own seaport. Not until they can declare and stand by peaceful intentions with their neighbors.
Thunder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th January 2011, 04:03 PM   #4631
The Fool
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,409
Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
So yes, you don't have any issues at all with Hamas importing weapons from Iran and Syria, or at least don't think they should be prevented from it. I can understand why it took you months to admit this.
son...you are hilarious.

seeing you yearn for the complete elimination of the Palestinian people by starvation as you insist that if you think its a little too hard to search for weapons then all supplies must be blocked.


Gee this mindreading and making stuff up game is fun isn't it.....


give you a hint. Holding the opinion that Hamas should have a seaport does not equal holding the opinion that they can import weapons......even simple lifeforms should understand this...
__________________
And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good.
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?
R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance)

Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.
The Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th January 2011, 04:05 PM   #4632
The Fool
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,409
Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
And what countries have agreed to supply these neutral guards? How will they keep Hamas out? Will they be willing to fight Hamas if necessary? What systems will they put in place to prevent cargo transfer at sea?
being unable to guarantee 100% security at the land crossings either...Wildcat advocates the sealing off of Gaza to the point of genocidal starvation.


Just because you would not be able to manage a search system doesn't mean it is not possible. Do you lie awake at night in cold sweats worrying about the crossing into Egypt.....maybe Chocolate is sneaking through.
__________________
And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good.
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?
R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance)

Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

Last edited by The Fool; 18th January 2011 at 04:08 PM.
The Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th January 2011, 10:28 PM   #4633
Mycroft
High Priest of Ed
 
Mycroft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,794
Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
give you a hint. Holding the opinion that Hamas should have a seaport does not equal holding the opinion that they can import weapons......even simple lifeforms should understand this...
Except it basically does. You pretend to stand by the principle of preventing Hamas from importing weapons while supporting policy that makes it impossible.

We're not fooled.

Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
being unable to guarantee 100% security at the land crossings either...Wildcat advocates the sealing off of Gaza to the point of genocidal starvation.
Lie. Wildcat never suggested anything like that, and your previous post indicates you know that.

You also have some claims to back up. How about we make it easy, why not start with the one about Israel's "quaint pseudo theocracy principles"?
Mycroft is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th January 2011, 11:10 PM   #4634
ThunderChunky
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,456
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Except it basically does. You pretend to stand by the principle of preventing Hamas from importing weapons while supporting policy that makes it impossible.
The only policy to prevent Hamas from importing weapons is to keep gaza on the brink of economic collapse?
ThunderChunky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 19th January 2011, 03:11 AM   #4635
The Fool
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,409
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Except it basically does. You pretend to stand by the principle of preventing Hamas from importing weapons while supporting policy that makes it impossible.
so the policy of allowing supplies overland makes it impossible to stop Hamas from importing weapons too. As demonstrated by the fact they have weapons.....so you must be in favor of zero overland too?? Otherwise you are just supporting policy that makes it impossible to prevent all weapons.




Quote:
Lie. Wildcat never suggested anything like that, and your previous post indicates you know that.
I know....but you are only concerned with stuff I make up, not stuff Wildcat makes up....like "you don't have any issues at all with Hamas importing weapons from Iran and Syria, or at least don't think they should be prevented from it"

where did I say that mycroft? Going to chastise wildcat?

Quote:
You also have some claims to back up. How about we make it easy, why not start with the one about Israel's "quaint pseudo theocracy principles"?
keep asking.....I think Rabbis on the national payroll is a "quaint pseudo theocratic principle".
I think having a state religion is a "quaint pseudo theocratic principle". whats the next irrelevant question?
that should give you some good material for further diversion.

Now, are you game to comment on the topic of maritime restrictions? The question is why does it have to be all or nothing. Can you think beyond a false dichotomy fallacy? Hang on you probably don't have an opinion on that do you.
__________________
And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good.
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?
R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance)

Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

Last edited by The Fool; 19th January 2011 at 03:29 AM.
The Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 19th January 2011, 04:51 AM   #4636
amb
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,777
Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
And what countries have agreed to supply these neutral guards? How will they keep Hamas out? Will they be willing to fight Hamas if necessary? What systems will they put in place to prevent cargo transfer at sea?
You have just given the reason why Israel must have a blockade in place.
amb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 19th January 2011, 09:20 AM   #4637
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 59,856
Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
son...you are hilarious.

seeing you yearn for the complete elimination of the Palestinian people by starvation as you insist that if you think its a little too hard to search for weapons then all supplies must be blocked.


Gee this mindreading and making stuff up game is fun isn't it.....


give you a hint. Holding the opinion that Hamas should have a seaport does not equal holding the opinion that they can import weapons......even simple lifeforms should understand this...
The ship has sailed into Hamas-controlled Gaza.

Who do you think is going to search it for weapons, Hamas? Who will watch the sea to see if any cargo is being off-loaded to smaller boats to avoid the port?

If you don't have the answers for these questions, then yes, you support the arming of Hamas.
__________________
Vive la liberté!
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 19th January 2011, 09:22 AM   #4638
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 59,856
Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
being unable to guarantee 100% security at the land crossings either...Wildcat advocates the sealing off of Gaza to the point of genocidal starvation.
Funny, I don't recall saying those things.

Got a link?


Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
Just because you would not be able to manage a search system doesn't mean it is not possible. Do you lie awake at night in cold sweats worrying about the crossing into Egypt.....maybe Chocolate is sneaking through.
I have heard no search system proposed by you.

All we got out of you is you want the ships to be able to sail directly to Hamas-controlled Gaza.
__________________
Vive la liberté!
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 19th January 2011, 09:25 AM   #4639
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 59,856
Originally Posted by ThunderChunky View Post
The only policy to prevent Hamas from importing weapons is to keep gaza on the brink of economic collapse?
Who knew electing a genocidal terrorist group as your government, which promptly went to war against a much more powerful neighbor, could have an effect on the economy?

I can't understand how this happened!


__________________
Vive la liberté!
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 19th January 2011, 09:29 AM   #4640
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 59,856
Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
so the policy of allowing supplies overland makes it impossible to stop Hamas from importing weapons too. As demonstrated by the fact they have weapons.....so you must be in favor of zero overland too?? Otherwise you are just supporting policy that makes it impossible to prevent all weapons.
Syria and Iran are shipping heavy weapons to Hamas through Israel and Egypt?

Really?

Got a cite The Fool?

Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
I know....but you are only concerned with stuff I make up, not stuff Wildcat makes up....like "you don't have any issues at all with Hamas importing weapons from Iran and Syria, or at least don't think they should be prevented from it"
I made up nothing.

You support ships being able to sail directly to Hamas-controlled Gaza. Thus, you support Hamas importing heavy weapons.
__________________
Vive la liberté!
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Closed Thread

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:03 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.