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Tags Gaza flotilla raid , Israel-Palestine conflict

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Old 19th January 2011, 04:44 PM   #4641
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
You support ships being able to sail directly to Hamas-controlled Gaza. Thus, you support Hamas importing heavy weapons.
Nope....
I support Gaza having a seaport. If we could have progressed past you chanting that silly question for weeks you would have found( if you asked) that I have no issue with ships being searched first...even if they have to be sent to an interim port to be searched or searched at sea.

you ask the question about if they should have a seaport and then from my answer decide what my opinions are about what is reasonable actions before ships reach the port. Mindreading again...
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Old 19th January 2011, 04:45 PM   #4642
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Originally Posted by WildCat
You support ships being able to sail directly to Hamas-controlled Gaza. Thus, you support Hamas importing heavy weapons.

thus.....you support the murder of innocent Jewish children and Holocaust survivors.

thus...you support genocide and extermination of the Jewish people.

...see? I can do it too!!!!!

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Old 19th January 2011, 04:46 PM   #4643
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Funny, I don't recall saying those things.

Got a link?


you didn't say them I borrowed your process of mindreading....its fun.
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Old 19th January 2011, 04:48 PM   #4644
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Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
Originally Posted by WildCat http://www.internationalskeptics.com...s/viewpost.gif
You support ships being able to sail directly to Hamas-controlled Gaza. Thus, you support Hamas importing heavy weapons.

thus.....you support the murder of innocent Jewish children and Holocaust survivors.

thus...you support genocide and extermination of the Jewish people.

...see? I can do it too!!!!!

can you tell if I like Broccoli? Thats the definative test of your abilities.
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Old 19th January 2011, 04:50 PM   #4645
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Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
can you tell if I like Broccoli? Thats the definative test of your abilities.
you love steamed brocolli, but not sauteed.

you know I'm right.
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Old 19th January 2011, 05:34 PM   #4646
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Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
Nope....
I support Gaza having a seaport.
Who controls Gaza The Fool?

Maybe it's time for you to feign confusion about the question again?
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Old 19th January 2011, 06:24 PM   #4647
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Who controls Gaza The Fool?

Maybe it's time for you to feign confusion about the question again?
you are a major pest with this one arn't you.

Hamas controls gaza...

now its time for you to read my mind and assign a pile of opinions to me?


got a question for you....Do you think Hamas should have land crossing points?

if you answer Yes it means you support allowing weapons to be smuggled in through these crossings, if you say no it means you support the starving of the entire population....and if you point out the sillyness of the question I just keep asking it over and over.......thats how your method works isn't it?
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Old 19th January 2011, 06:57 PM   #4648
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Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
you love steamed brocolli, but not sauteed.

you know I'm right.
Damn, you are good...
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Old 19th January 2011, 10:08 PM   #4649
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Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
got a question for you....Do you think Hamas should have land crossing points?
I'll answer this one. They should be able to have any land crossing points they want, in agreement with the owners of the land on the other side of the crossing.

See, there's a fundamental difference between a seaport and a land crossing. A land crossing has an owner on the other side.
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Old 19th January 2011, 10:49 PM   #4650
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Originally Posted by mortimer View Post
See, there's a fundamental difference between a seaport and a land crossing. A land crossing has an owner on the other side.
And more importantly, that "other side" in this case isn't Syria or Iran.
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Old 19th January 2011, 10:55 PM   #4651
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Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
you are a major pest with this one arn't you.

Hamas controls gaza...
And therefore if you support a seaport in Gaza, you support Hamas getting weapons shipped directly from Iran and Syria.
now its time for you to read my mind and assign a pile of opinions to me?

Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
got a question for you....Do you think Hamas should have land crossing points?
See above.

Hard to believe you still can't grasp the difference between having a seaport and a land crossing from countries that don't let Syria and Iran ship weapons to terrorists.
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Old 20th January 2011, 04:38 AM   #4652
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Letting Gaza have an independent seaport is like letting children play with a loaded shotgun.
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Old 20th January 2011, 05:35 AM   #4653
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Originally Posted by mortimer View Post
I'll answer this one. They should be able to have any land crossing points they want, in agreement with the owners of the land on the other side of the crossing.
so according to wildcat you support weapon smuggling through the land crossing. According to wildcats method because you qualified your answer I will ignore the qualification and just keep chanting the question....
Quote:
See, there's a fundamental difference between a seaport and a land crossing. A land crossing has an owner on the other side.
yes, with the land crossing you don't control the land on the other side and with a seaport you don't control the water on the other side...huge difference eh?
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Old 20th January 2011, 05:43 AM   #4654
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Originally Posted by amb View Post
Letting Gaza have an independent seaport is like letting children play with a loaded shotgun.
agreed but Wildcat is talking about a seaport...you seem to want to add the word independent to that...

see...Wildcats main problem is that he is using a false dilemma. Either they get a completely free seaport that they can freely use to import heavy weapons...Lions, tigers, bears, nuclear weapons, wonderwoman or the complete collection of elvis 45s.....or........a complete blockade.

He seems reluctant to apply the same principal to land crossings.
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Old 20th January 2011, 05:44 AM   #4655
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
And therefore if you support a seaport in Gaza, you support Hamas getting weapons shipped directly from Iran and Syria.
now its time for you to read my mind and assign a pile of opinions to me?


See above.

Hard to believe you still can't grasp the difference between having a seaport and a land crossing from countries that don't let Syria and Iran ship weapons to terrorists.
Do you think Hamas should have land crossing points?

question too hard?
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Old 20th January 2011, 06:48 AM   #4656
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Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
Do you think Hamas should have land crossing points?

question too hard?
Do you think they should, TF?

I haven't really been following this thread too closely, but if you say earlier you don't think they should control Gaza's seaports, doesn't the above question answer itself?
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Old 20th January 2011, 06:49 AM   #4657
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Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
yes, with the land crossing you don't control the land on the other side and with a seaport you don't control the water on the other side...huge difference eh?
Since when? Which country owns the water that laps up on the beaches of Gaza?
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Old 20th January 2011, 02:01 PM   #4658
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Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
Do you think Hamas should have land crossing points?

question too hard?
Certainly not. Easiest question there could be.

Israel can go to all out war against Hamas to protect themselves, or they can set up blockades to manage the material Hamas brings in. I think they chose the much better option, but clearly Fool's idea of a solution is for Israel to just play dead and let Hamas launch attacks. As per usual.
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Old 20th January 2011, 02:13 PM   #4659
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Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
Do you think Hamas should have land crossing points?

question too hard?
Hamas is free to do whatever they wish at their land crossing points. Why do you think this is a hard question?

You really haven't yet figured out the difference?

How many large rockets does Hizbullah have, compared to Hamas? Anti-aircraft artillery?

Do you think that Syria and Iran just don't want to send their good friends Hamas such weapons, or do you think that they are unable to because they don't have direct access to Gaza, as they do to Hizbullah?

Did you know that Syria borders Lebanon?

(cue The Fool feigning ignorance again)
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Old 20th January 2011, 03:21 PM   #4660
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Originally Posted by mortimer View Post
Since when? Which country owns the water that laps up on the beaches of Gaza?
Israel maintains a blockade. If you are of the opinion that they don't control the waters then we are spending a lot of time discussing a naval blockade that doesn't exist?
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Old 20th January 2011, 03:23 PM   #4661
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Hamas is free to do whatever they wish at their land crossing points. Why do you think this is a hard question?
ok, you support weapons smuggling across land crossing points.
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Old 20th January 2011, 03:25 PM   #4662
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Originally Posted by IDB87 View Post
Do you think they should, TF?

I haven't really been following this thread too closely, but if you say earlier you don't think they should control Gaza's seaports, doesn't the above question answer itself?
its a childish trick question, Wildcats current love affair with the false dilemma.
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Old 20th January 2011, 03:28 PM   #4663
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Hamas is free to do whatever they wish at their land crossing points. Why do you think this is a hard question?

You really haven't yet figured out the difference?

How many large rockets does Hizbullah have, compared to Hamas? Anti-aircraft artillery?

Do you think that Syria and Iran just don't want to send their good friends Hamas such weapons, or do you think that they are unable to because they don't have direct access to Gaza, as they do to Hizbullah?

Did you know that Syria borders Lebanon?

(cue The Fool feigning ignorance again)
Lol... In the end son....if hamas got the same weapons as Hizbolla they would become as big a threat to the survival of Israel as Hizbolla.....Nil. You desparately need to talk up the enemy to justify the punitive acts you are in love with..
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Old 20th January 2011, 03:29 PM   #4664
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Originally Posted by WildCat
Hamas is free to do whatever they wish at their land crossing points

Yikes. Not even I support that.
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Old 20th January 2011, 03:51 PM   #4665
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Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
Originally Posted by WildCat
Hamas is free to do whatever they wish at their land crossing points

Yikes. Not even I support that.
That's the reality, support has nothing to do with it. Hamas controls Gaza. So long as they do, they will also control the land crossings in Gaza.
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Old 20th January 2011, 03:53 PM   #4666
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Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
Lol... In the end son....if hamas got the same weapons as Hizbolla they would become as big a threat to the survival of Israel as Hizbolla.....Nil. You desparately need to talk up the enemy to justify the punitive acts you are in love with..
So until they become an exisential threat to Israel Israel isn't allowed to do anything at all in response?

Is this another one of those impossible separate higher standards only Israel is held to?
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Old 20th January 2011, 03:57 PM   #4667
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
That's the reality, support has nothing to do with it. Hamas controls Gaza. So long as they do, they will also control the land crossings in Gaza.
Do you think Hamas should have land crossing points? I don't care what you think currently exists or controls what.....Do you think Hamas should have land crossing points?

come on son, answer the question.
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Old 20th January 2011, 04:06 PM   #4668
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Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
Do you think Hamas should have land crossing points? I don't care what you think currently exists or controls what.....Do you think Hamas should have land crossing points?

come on son, answer the question.
I seriously cannot even fathom what you're blathering on about here.

Hamas controls Gaza. Israel controls Israel, Egypt controls Egypt. Hamas is free to do whatever it likes on their side of the crossing, but anything on the other side is controlled by Egypt or Israel.

-I'll pause here so you can attempt to comprehend what you just read, as well as the implications-

Now, a seaport is quite different, isn't it? From the sea, Hamas could receive war materiel directly from their Syrian and Iranian sponsors. There's just one problem for Hamas... as it turns out, Hamas doesn't have a navy and the country it has decided to wage war against does have a navy. So now Israel can also prevent war materiel from going directly to Hamas. Thus, the blockade!

I've dumbed this down as best I can for you. I have no confidence that you will actually understand it.
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Old 20th January 2011, 05:11 PM   #4669
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I think Fool is asking if you think they should have a crossing to other countries where Hamas controls both sides of the crossing. Why he would ask such an absurd question and the pretend it's some kind of hard question is beyond me. But then so is most everything he posts.
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Old 20th January 2011, 06:05 PM   #4670
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
I seriously cannot even fathom what you're blathering on about here.
come on, don't feign confusion...

should Hamas have land crossings?
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Old 20th January 2011, 06:17 PM   #4671
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Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
come on, don't feign confusion...

should Hamas have land crossings?
Hopeless.

eta: if anyone can translate The Fool-speak into English it would be much appreciated.
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Old 20th January 2011, 06:28 PM   #4672
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Hopeless.

eta: if anyone can translate The Fool-speak into English it would be much appreciated.
LOL..
whats the matter....when you constantly chanted "can Hamas have a seaport" you were not so worried about the annoyance it caused.

Come on wildcat, you know you can answer it...
Should hamas have a land crossing point?


come on, you know you can let go of your favorite false dilemma if you try. I know the thought that seaports must be all or nothing as far as what travels through is vital to you but as time goes on you may be able to outgrow this addiction.


what stops truckloads of heavy weapons traveling in through Egypt again? oh yea....the Egyptians. Any minute risk whatsoever of something getting through a seaport is so horrendous that nothing can be let through....but.....its ok to trust the Egyptians. No thoughts of moving back in and putting an end to any risk there.


mate...how long is it going to take you to wake up the the fact that your precious blockade in its extreme 100% exclusion form is already passed its useby date.
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Old 20th January 2011, 06:52 PM   #4673
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I think someone has gone off the deep end. Maybe ask him why there needs to be a seaport when there already exits entrances that can be monitored safely?
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Old 20th January 2011, 06:58 PM   #4674
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Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
LOL..
whats the matter....when you constantly chanted "can Hamas have a seaport" you were not so worried about the annoyance it caused.
No The Fool, it is and always has been about the fact that a seaport allows them to get heavy weapons direct from Syria and Iran.

Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
Come on wildcat, you know you can answer it...
Should hamas have a land crossing point?
I answered the question as best I could, given the absurdity of it. Hamas controls Gaza, therefore they control all of the land crossings inside Gaza. Surely, you are not arguing that they should also get to control the Israeli and Egyptian side of the border as well?

Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
what stops truckloads of heavy weapons traveling in through Egypt again? oh yea....the Egyptians.
See, you know the answer to your own question!

Let me know when Egypt starts allowing Iran and Syria to ship weapons through it to Hamas, then you'll have a point that the sea blockade is hopeless.
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Old 20th January 2011, 07:01 PM   #4675
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Originally Posted by Jonnyclueless View Post
I think someone has gone off the deep end. Maybe ask him why there needs to be a seaport when there already exits entrances that can be monitored safely?
He's simultaneously claiming that the blockade is causing a humanitarian crisis but also that anything can be brought in through Egypt anyway.

The reality, of course, is that children in Gaza are at or near the top as far as nutrition goes in the entire middle east and north Africa.
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Old 20th January 2011, 09:03 PM   #4676
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
No The Fool, it is and always has been about the fact that a seaport allows them to get heavy weapons direct from Syria and Iran.
No, its a false dichotomy you have created and championed for a long time. Either nothing is allowed through or its open slather for any and all.....Tell me this. If the US red cross loaded up a ship with medical supplies and sailed for Gaza would you think its reasonable that Israel should block it because it may contain heavy artillary from Syria?

Quote:
I answered the question as best I could, given the absurdity of it. Hamas controls Gaza, therefore they control all of the land crossings inside Gaza. Surely, you are not arguing that they should also get to control the Israeli and Egyptian side of the border as well?
as best you could?

Quote:
Let me know when Egypt starts allowing Iran and Syria to ship weapons through it to Hamas, then you'll have a point that the sea blockade is hopeless.
The point is that you can't guarantee that they are not so by your principles you apply to seaports you should stop it all completely. You feel that Israel could not guarantee no smuggling through a seaport so a complete stop is put in place. Well I hate to tell you this but Israel cannot guarantee what does or doesn't come through egypt so why are you not advocationg it be closed completely?

To be honest I am at a complete loss to understand this love you have for a complete naval blockade....is it just a hurt pride thing because its falling to bits?
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Old 20th January 2011, 09:17 PM   #4677
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
He's simultaneously claiming that the blockade is causing a humanitarian crisis but also that anything can be brought in through Egypt anyway.

The reality, of course, is that children in Gaza are at or near the top as far as nutrition goes in the entire middle east and north Africa.
Look, in the end I probably can't do much about the troop of clown that are currently driving Israel down the path to becoming an international pariah and I can't do much about the cheersquad that applauds thier efforts. In the end those such as yourself that can't see beyond military repression as a way forward are a greater enemy of Israel than Hamas....

have a good look at yourself and goodnight..
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Old 20th January 2011, 09:18 PM   #4678
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Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
No, its a false dichotomy you have created and championed for a long time. Either nothing is allowed through or its open slather for any and all.....
False dilemma fallacy.

Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
Tell me this. If the US red cross loaded up a ship with medical supplies and sailed for Gaza would you think its reasonable that Israel should block it because it may contain heavy artillary from Syria?
The Red Cross would sail to Ashdod, as Israel requests. If not, they would be commandeered and taken there by force if necessary.

Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
The point is that you can't guarantee that they are not so by your principles you apply to seaports you should stop it all completely. You feel that Israel could not guarantee no smuggling through a seaport so a complete stop is put in place. Well I hate to tell you this but Israel cannot guarantee what does or doesn't come through egypt so why are you not advocationg it be closed completely?
No, Egypt guarantees what goes through Egypt. And you have no evidence at all that Egypt is letting weapons from Syria and Iran into Gaza.

The blockade is quite successful at keeping heavy weapons out of Gaza.

Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
To be honest I am at a complete loss to understand this love you have for a complete naval blockade....is it just a hurt pride thing because its falling to bits?
There's no doubt in my mind you're at a complete loss.
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Old 20th January 2011, 09:21 PM   #4679
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Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
Look, in the end I probably can't do much about the troop of clown that are currently driving Israel down the path to becoming an international pariah and I can't do much about the cheersquad that applauds thier efforts. In the end those such as yourself that can't see beyond military repression as a way forward are a greater enemy of Israel than Hamas....

have a good look at yourself and goodnight..
Oh dear, get labeled an international pariah by a coalition of Muslim theocracies and anti-semites. So heartbreaking I'm sure.
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Old 21st January 2011, 02:10 AM   #4680
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Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
agreed but Wildcat is talking about a seaport...you seem to want to add the word independent to that...

see...Wildcats main problem is that he is using a false dilemma. Either they get a completely free seaport that they can freely use to import heavy weapons...Lions, tigers, bears, nuclear weapons, wonderwoman or the complete collection of elvis 45s.....or........a complete blockade.

He seems reluctant to apply the same principal to land crossings.
Eliminate all the extremists in Gaza and they can have their seaport and land crossings. But still with caution though, after all, they are mostly moslems.
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