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Tags bigfoot , lawsuits , sasquatch

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Old 7th October 2012, 08:06 AM   #121
DennyT
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Originally Posted by manofthesea View Post
Here's a list of things that can kill you:

-drinking and driving
-texting and driving
-talking on a cell phone and driving
-speeding while driving
-jaywalking
-wearing a fur suit in the forest

If you love your children you will teach them to not do any of the above.

Or have the authorities clean up the mess afterwards.
Actually crazy or irresponsible people with guns kill people and the authorities will hold them responsible. I guess you missed the hunter safety/ethics course and/or werent taught about handling a gun. This isn't war.
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Old 7th October 2012, 08:17 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by William Parcher
I wonder if a prosecutor could argue that the only possible bipedal humanoid form walking around in the USA is going to be a human... and therefore the only possible thing that a Bigfoot hunter could be hunting is a human.

Think of this...


I thought he was a Bigfoot.

I thought she was a fairy.

I thought he was an ogre.

I thought she was a witch.

A thrill killer could run right though the gamut of nonsense always saying that he thought he was killing that that that that thing. Yeah, that thing.

Not guilty. Go home and don't do that again.

Originally Posted by Dragoonster View Post
Bears do walk bipedal at times. So do skunks (on front feet to spray), though they're smaller than a child so maybe don't fit "humanoid".

A thrill killer is likely to do his killing out in the woods via killing a person dressed as a fairy, ogre or witch? He'd need to have a ton of patience for that opportunity to kill.

I guess an urban example would be a troll...if some dude shot another dude who was under a bridge in a troll suit. I don't think you're properly considering that the victim in question was not obviously a human.

Let's remove Bigfoot from the equation. Should a hunter licensed for shooting bear be charged with killing a kid in the woods who was dressed in a bear suit, which he thought was a bear?
No, that's not really what i meant. No costumes required. A "Fairy Hunter" is looking for a humanoid figure that flies and also does other fairy things and they want to shoot to kill a fairy mainly to prove their existence (the shooter already believes).

Boom - he shoots a young girl running through a forest. "I was hunting for fairies. I saw one and it moved just like a fairy. I even waited and watched some more and all I ever saw were various fairy movements and appearance. I'm sorry that I killed this girl but she was acting exactly like a fairy and I might say she could very well have been trying to look like a fairy. Do you know if this girl studied fairies? Do her parents know if she was a fairy researcher and may have been interested in their behavior?"

See, I'm saying that once you declare your intended target to be a humanoid form (a fairy is still this even if they have wings) then the only REAL target for you is a human. If you end up killing anything that you were aiming at it will be a human that you kill. This is because the Bigfoot and the Fairy do not exist and therefore cannot be killed even if the shooter is 100% convinced that they are shooting the real deal. Standing bears don't really count because that isn't humanoid and is only just an upright animal. A wild turkey is an upright animal with wings but the Fairy Hunter doesn't shoot any of those because they obviously aren't humanoid.

When your targeted cryptid is a wild undocumented bipedal ape... the only possible thing you can be hunting (really) is another human. If you actually make a kill... you will have murdered a human. By accident, yes, but it could only end that way.
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Old 7th October 2012, 08:23 AM   #123
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By the way, any who might harbor any fantasies that, should they commit manslaughter, Meldrum or Goodall or even Moneymaker or Cliff, would speak up for them, should forget that idea. No, you'll be all alone, wondering where the champions of bigfootery went (they took the elevator, you got the shaft).
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Old 7th October 2012, 08:28 AM   #124
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My main question is: would or could there ever be such a trial where the question of Bigfoot's existence actually became part of the trial. Where you had expert witnesses testify both for and against Bigfoot existence. Arguing like we do here but in a courtroom under oath. And with subpoenas (not desire) determining who is required to show up.
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Old 7th October 2012, 08:37 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
My main question is: would or could there ever be such a trial where the question of Bigfoot's existence actually became part of the trial. Where you had expert witnesses testify both for and against Bigfoot existence. Arguing like we do here but in a courtroom under oath. And with subpoenas (not desire) determining who is required to show up.
Well we know one thing for sure. Who or what is Not going to show up.

Tim
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Old 7th October 2012, 08:48 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
My main question is: would or could there ever be such a trial where the question of Bigfoot's existence actually became part of the trial. Where you had expert witnesses testify both for and against Bigfoot existence. Arguing like we do here but in a courtroom under oath. And with subpoenas (not desire) determining who is required to show up.
See my post above. Meldrum has repeatedly stated that he does NOT hold the belief that Bigfoot exists and he has certainly never advocated trying to shoot one.... Certainly Ketchum hasn't, Sykes hasn't....
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Old 7th October 2012, 09:40 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
I think a case could be made that the BF hunters, had reason to believe the things that they were planning on shooting were humans. A deer hunter would have reason to believe a person in a fur coat was a deer. Someone hunting Bigfoot (a beast that a reasonable person would think is not real) has reason to believe the Bigfoots are actually people. This would approach premeditation, similar to someone who decides to shoot the next person that walks in the door.

I am going to shoot the next 'Bigfoot' that comes over that hill.
Parcher. That's what I'm saying with this post. Not to say I wouldn't pay big bucks to see Bindernagel or Fahrenbach get cross examined by any Prosecutor in the country.
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Old 7th October 2012, 09:49 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by manofthesea View Post
Unfortunately we need laws (commandments for those of you who are biblically inclined) to cut down on stupid.
.
Ve tried zat.
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Old 7th October 2012, 09:50 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by parnassus View Post
Actually crazy or irresponsible people with guns kill people and the authorities will hold them responsible. I guess you missed the hunter safety/ethics course and/or werent taught about handling a gun. This isn't war.
.
Or positively identifying the target before shooting..
"sound shots" kill many people.
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Old 7th October 2012, 05:02 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by joesixpack View Post
Just to be clear, growing up in Texas (and I don't think it's much different on Oklahoma), I don't know too many hicks who would think dressing up as an ambiguous monster/animal and surprising someone else in the woods would be a prudent plan of action.
Your friends, despite being "hicks", may not actually be stupid. I know a number of people who could reasonably be described as hicks who are, nevertheless, quite intelligent.

There are, however, a lot of stupid people in the world. And pranksters are not excluded from that category. Witness, for example, the guy who was run over on the highway last month in a bigfoot suit.

If alcohol is involved, the intelligence level may drop even further.

Yes, a lot of people are probably too smart to attempt something like this. It only takes one, though.
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Old 7th October 2012, 05:42 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by parnassus View Post
See my post above. Meldrum has repeatedly stated that he does NOT hold the belief that Bigfoot exists and he has certainly never advocated trying to shoot one.... Certainly Ketchum hasn't, Sykes hasn't....

False. Meldrum has claimed a bigfoot left an elk impression. He has also said he believes the Patterson film shows a real bigfoot. He personally made casts of Freemans masterpiece, errr something piece.

He also wrote a paper describing the footprints left by an alleged bipedal north american ape. He may say otherwise in some interviews, but how can a bigfoot leave an elk impression if there is no bigfoot? How can he endorse the BCM tracks as real if no real bigfoot made them? It's a game of semantics, and it seems you may have bought it too.

However, does Meldrum "believe" in bigfoot, or does he just claim things are authentic while knowing they must be either misidentfied or fake?

Legend meets science what? It's a silly game he plays. The "good doctor".
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Old 7th October 2012, 07:08 PM   #132
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When you write "false" I guess you mean you weren't aware of it. Certainly he dances around it. You might visit the Relict Hominoid Inquiry and go to the latest book review "wild men" by Meldrum.
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Old 7th October 2012, 07:10 PM   #133
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How can one hold that belief and still claim that certain pieces of bigfootery evidence are what he feels is authentic? Isn't that a huge contradiction? How can it be?
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Old 7th October 2012, 07:18 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by king catfish View Post
I guess in "your book" it's morally superior to pay someone else to make the animal miserable for a while before killing it for us and putting the prettily wrapped meat in the supermarket for us to purchase?
Then wrap the Bigfoot meat prettily and put it on sale, as game procured from the wild. Yummy!
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Old 8th October 2012, 01:20 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by parnassus View Post
. I guess you missed the hunter safety/ethics course and/or werent taught about handling a gun. This isn't war.
Actually I was taught back in 1981 when the first threats of terror were upon us. "Aim for the chest and say you tried to shoot the knees"
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Old 8th October 2012, 01:21 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by I Ratant View Post
.
Ve tried zat.
Well there's the Godwin, new thread...

ETA: And a bonus potential future Darwin. A brace some would say.

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Old 8th October 2012, 04:22 AM   #137
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The guy who went to Siberia looking for the Yeti doesn't believe in bigfoot?

The guy who bought Freeman's stories and casts doesn't believe in bigfoot?

This guy doesn't believe in bigfoot?

http://www.cryptomundo.com/wp-conten...th_america.pdf

http://www.isu.edu/~meldd/fxnlmorph.html
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 8th October 2012, 12:09 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
The guy who went to Siberia looking for the Yeti doesn't believe in bigfoot?

The guy who bought Freeman's stories and casts doesn't believe in bigfoot?

This guy doesn't believe in bigfoot?

http://www.cryptomundo.com/wp-conten...th_america.pdf

http://www.isu.edu/~meldd/fxnlmorph.html
See Meldrum's current statements at http://www.isu.edu/rhi/pdf/Bigfoot%2...e%20Forest.pdf
Quote:
"she inaccurately states that Meldrum "believes" that Bigfoot exists..."
"I have always maintained that the evidence is inconclusive..."
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Old 8th October 2012, 12:35 PM   #139
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What the article where he defends the evidence for bigfoot? lol...
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Old 8th October 2012, 12:41 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by parnassus View Post
Let's not use half quotes...

Quote:
I have always maintained that the evidence is inconclusive, but that ultimate technicality is different from judging the evidence entirely without merit.
He speaks of the evidence, and cuts it a lot of slack.

He says nothing about his belief in bigfoot.
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Old 8th October 2012, 12:42 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by River View Post
How can one hold that belief and still claim that certain pieces of bigfootery evidence are what he feels is authentic? Isn't that a huge contradiction? How can it be?
Lol
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Old 8th October 2012, 12:52 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
According to them, the bigfoot took them off the trees.
Around here Bigfoot just takes the memory card and leaves the camera.
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Old 8th October 2012, 12:57 PM   #143
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Meldrum can claim whatever he wants, but he speaks exactly like a dreamy footer.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=6469070
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Old 8th October 2012, 01:09 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by parnassus View Post
Lol

He carefully says things, much like the Patterson film "certainly could be a hoax" and this impression "couldve been made by" a sasquatch. He's not completely washed out as to throw away his credibility. This is the same guy with the aforementioned claims linked to many of bigfooterys best evidence.

The same guy that sells cast copies of famous hoaxed tracks along with his DVD and publications on bigfoot. I think he's great at trumping up claims made by bigfooters like Noll, and Randles (thinking skookum smookum here, Randles was there also)

All that said, sure he's said the evidence is not conclusive in one statement, yet in others he completely endorses evidence such as the PGF and others as authentic. Without there being a belief that the animal was there in the flesh and made the evidence, it could never be authentic. The "good doctor" gets plenty of grant money to study his non belief, and paid speaking engagements to endorse his non belief, along with television and documentary style videos.
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Old 8th October 2012, 02:35 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by RenaissanceBiker View Post
Around here Bigfoot just takes the memory card and leaves the camera.
LOLOL...mighty considerate of those involved in clandestine activities.
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Old 8th October 2012, 05:25 PM   #146
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Mod WarningFolks...there are other bigfoot threads to discuss various bigfoot topics; THIS thread is about legal ramifications of shooting someone in a bigfoot suit. Please stay on topic.
Responding to this modbox in thread will be off topic Posted By:Locknar
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Old 8th October 2012, 07:29 PM   #147
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Well, if you don't actually believe in bigfoot with certainty, then how could you advocate shooting one?
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Old 8th October 2012, 07:39 PM   #148
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Remember that Krantz actually hunted for bigfoot with a rifle. He would drive around at night with a spotlight and a rifle, waiting to get a shot at one.
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Old 8th October 2012, 07:58 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Well, if you don't actually believe in bigfoot with certainty, then how could you advocate shooting one?
Someone could believe in Bigfoot with certainty, but still be worried that They are shooting a kid in a gorilla suit.
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Old 8th October 2012, 08:04 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Someone could believe in Bigfoot with certainty, but still be worried that They are shooting a kid in a gorilla suit.
One would hope so.
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Old 8th October 2012, 08:10 PM   #151
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I think the shooting is just part of the setting of the snipe hunt. But back to the issue of whether they could use Meldrum as a defense witness if they did shoot someone:
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Let's not use half quotes...

He speaks of the evidence, and cuts it a lot of slack.

He says nothing about his belief in bigfoot.
Let's not use half of the quotes:

Quote:
"she inaccurately states that Meldrum "believes" that Bigfoot exists..."
"I have always maintained that the evidence is inconclusive..."
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Old 8th October 2012, 08:27 PM   #152
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Quote:
FLATOW: What got you started on this? I read that you were not always a believer, were you?

Dr. MELDRUM: Well no. I, you know, I grew up in the Pacific Northwest and so I was aware of some of the mythology and the folklore that surrounded the reports and the stories. But so many years had gone by I have to say when I was confronted with the subject as an academic I was quite skeptical and was looking for the proverbial fur suit or wooden foot, as it were.

But when I was taken out and shown some fresh footprints in southeastern Washington I was, you know, quite literally set back on my heels because these were tracks that would be difficult to explain as a simple contrivance with wooden feet strapped to one's boots.

FLATOW: Yeah.

Dr. MELDRUM: And one thing led to another from there.
Later Meldrum says he doesn't use the term "believe". At least I think that's what he's saying. But he accepts the evidence. Seems like he's trying to walk a fine line, but I'm not buying it.

Quote:
FLATOW: Well, so what would it take then to prove to people the existence of Sasquatch?

Dr. MELDRUM: Well, obviously, the convention in zoology is for the establishment or the recognition of a new species to be based on a type specimen, and I've never suggested - you know, I don't use the word I believe in the existence of Bigfoot. To me, that connotes a conviction in the absence of proof or evidence, at least.

I simply say that the evidence is there, there's no refuting that. What does the evidence tell us, where does it lead us, and is there something behind this persistence of this phenomenon in western North America?
From the NPR interview linked earlier.

Are there any discussions with Meldrum about shooting one?
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

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Old 8th October 2012, 09:16 PM   #153
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What does "the evidence is there" mean? Anything can be called evidence. But evidence of what? What does "there" mean? In the files of the BFRO?
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Old 9th October 2012, 03:03 AM   #154
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This why the Defense would have to rely on Fahrenbach and Bindernagel, it would be Ana absolute gas. The prosecution would just have to get them started and step back.

'Really? You actually saw this "Bigfoot orgy"?... No? Not yourself? Really?'
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Old 9th October 2012, 06:14 AM   #155
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Look, Meldrum published a peer-reviewed paper in which he proposed a name for the ichnotaxon that leaves its giant footprints around muddy patches and roadsides in the Pacific Northwest. That name he used for the holotype was not "Homo sapiens", it was "Anthropoidipes ameriborealis".

He can't have it both ways. He published that paper, so he can't claim that he doesn't fully accept that there are real bigfoots out there leaving those footprints. To admit that he doesn't believe that would be an admission that he committed academic fraud in publishing that paper.

Should someone mistake a human for a bigfoot and kill the person in a botched attempt to collect a specimen, then a good defense lawyer could make the case that Meldrum shares culpability through his fraudulent research that contributes greatly to the belief among some people that there really are real bigfoots out there to shoot. (Right Muldur? There really are people who take Meldrum seriously, right?)

Of course, I might share some blame too for egging the 'footers on to "prove it." I'm not too worried though, as my statements are consistently clear that there are no bigfoots to collect.
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Old 9th October 2012, 07:46 AM   #156
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Don't forget the "Bigfootville" shooting at shadows in the dark.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=AzGSjySGiFQ
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

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Old 9th October 2012, 08:13 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by RedRatSnake View Post
Oh my.

Quote:
Walking to the south, the creature was momentarily obscured by vegetation and was then visible through an eight to ten foot opening in the dense foliage, still approximately 25-30 yards from Colyer’s position. Using his Remington 1100 Tac-4 12 gauge auto-loading shotgun, loaded with 000 buckshot followed by slugs, he attempted to collect the animal for scientific analysis, firing all the rounds in rapid succession.


Originally Posted by xtifr View Post
Unless you're actively following BF forums or a site like this one, you probably have no idea how dangerous those lunatics can actually be.
I guess not. They are probably going to kill someone soon.
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Old 9th October 2012, 08:49 AM   #158
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Since they claim so much success in seeing "Bigfoots" even after shooting at them multiple times, I expect that the Finding Bigfoot crew will use gunshots as their main lure this season.
Amirite??
Then it will go viral and thousands of whacks will be doing it. In that case, yes, someone will be killed.
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Old 9th October 2012, 10:08 AM   #159
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Revealing post by one of the shootem up gang in an apparent attempt to ward off criticisms of their manly marksmanship:
Quote:
These aren't shots at high noon in the middle of the street.
They are taken into at a fast moving ape and most after midnight.
So much for hunter safety/ethics classes and any claim of identification of the target.
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Old 9th October 2012, 01:15 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by parnassus View Post
Quote:
They are taken into at a fast moving ape and most after midnight.
So much for hunter safety/ethics classes and any claim of identification of the target.
Indeed. Speaking as a (relatively) fast-moving ape myself, and a relatively hairy example of what's often referred to as a "hairless ape", I find these reassurances less than reassuring.

Those were really supposed to be reassurances? You're sure?
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