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Tags assassinations , JFK assassination , John F. Kennedy , Kennedy conspiracies

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Old 19th June 2018, 07:05 PM   #641
Hans
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
He was "Badge Man" (the medals on his chest looked like the badge). He was standing behind the stockade fence at the top of the Grassy Knoll smoking a cigar.....
right next to the elephant.

...can you show evidence that it wasn't a large badger?
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Old 19th June 2018, 07:09 PM   #642
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
OMG! A 4-Star General was smoking a cigar in 1963, and didn't put it out when asked to...because he was a 4-Star on a military base.

Obvious proof he was somehow in on it, whatever it was.

Or maybe he was using the cigar smoke to hide the scent of peanut-breath on the elephant in the room.
I will presume that MJ wasn't alive back in the early 60's. Back then around 50-60% (?) of the population smoked, indoors, outdoors and in restaurants and pretty much everywhere.
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Old 19th June 2018, 07:19 PM   #643
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I guess

Wrong.
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Old 19th June 2018, 07:40 PM   #644
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
I will presume that MJ wasn't alive back in the early 60's. Back then around 50-60% (?) of the population smoked, indoors, outdoors and in restaurants and pretty much everywhere.
Now now, Hans, you know that CT loons judge everything that happened in the past by today's standards and technology. This is why Apollo Hoax nutters think lunar photos were "photoshopped" in the 1960's and 1970's. Of course, Photoshop was created in 1988 (v1 was released in 1990) by Thomas and John Knoll, but this makes no difference to the nutters, who just claim NASA had a sooper seekrit version of their own.

Same goes for JFK CT loons. Forensic tests that weren't even invented until the 1990s - 2000s are expected to have been carried out in 1963. I've even had one JFK CT loon on another forum say that "they" couldn't prove the Carcano was Oswald's because there is no evidence that "they" found his DNA on it!!!


....and before you ask, neither Thomas nor John Knoll went by the nickname "Grassy"!!
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Last edited by smartcooky; 19th June 2018 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 19th June 2018, 07:50 PM   #645
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Thomas and John Knoll were notorious stoners in college and were known as the grassy Knolls. Coincidence? I think not.
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Old 19th June 2018, 08:15 PM   #646
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Thomas and John Knoll were notorious stoners in college and were known as the grassy Knolls. Coincidence? I think not.
This looks like a theory that is worth investigating.
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Last edited by Steve; 19th June 2018 at 08:16 PM. Reason: Didn't really want to discuss limes
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Old 19th June 2018, 08:37 PM   #647
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I realize that it pales in light of the many other logical fallacies employed by the CTs here, but calling the JFK autopsy the "autopsy of the century" is notably stupid. If there were an "autopsy of the century," it would probably be an autopsy for someone whose cause of death was unknown. A guy getting shot live on film and in front of hundreds of witnesses and then dying as a result hardly qualifies as the "autopsy of the century."
And here we are more than half a century later arguing trajectories, number of shots and if it was a conspiracy and a coup d’etat.

Yes, it clearly was the autopsy of the century.
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Old 19th June 2018, 08:49 PM   #648
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
And here we are more than half a century later arguing trajectories, number of shots and if it was a conspiracy and a coup d’etat.

Yes, it clearly was the autopsy of the century.
It's only being argued by one side, and most argue from ignorance and pettiness. Half a century from not some people will still argue the World Trade Center was brought down by controlled demolition based only on their world-view, and lack of knowledge of physics, and engineering.
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Old 19th June 2018, 08:53 PM   #649
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Thomas and John Knoll were notorious stoners in college and were known as the grassy Knolls. Coincidence? I think not.
”Yes, I realize now that it’s not possible for me to make a joke about the death of John F. Kennedy or Martin Luther King.”

- Kurt Vonnegut
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Old 19th June 2018, 09:07 PM   #650
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
”Yes, I realize now that it’s not possible for me to make a joke about the death of John F. Kennedy or Martin Luther King.”

- Kurt Vonnegut
Vonnegut may find it impossible (in no small part now because he is dead). Others apparently do not.
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Old 19th June 2018, 09:17 PM   #651
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
It's only being argued by one side, and most argue from ignorance and pettiness.
Well, coming from a sharp mind as yours, I guess I have to take this seriously.


Quote:
Half a century from not some people will still argue the World Trade Center was brought down by controlled demolition based only on their world-view, and lack of knowledge of physics, and engineering.
A very good example, yes. The forensic investigation of the century and all the evidence was transported away, recycled and sold to the highest bidder before they weren’t even alowed on the premises. And when finally allowed to, they forgot to investigate the collapses, stating they were, inevitable, after allegedly, initiated.

Yes, same same.

Good catch.
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Old 19th June 2018, 09:23 PM   #652
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Jokes are better than lies and insults. Had your fill of being wrong and now looking for imagined martyrdom via death by mod?
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Last edited by Wolrab; 19th June 2018 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 19th June 2018, 09:54 PM   #653
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Jokes are better than lies and insults. Had your fill of being wrong and now looking for imagined martyrdom via death by mod?
No, I’ve just started. That said, yes, you can learn a lot of a person on the type of jokes he/she tells.

A lot.

Last edited by manifesto; 19th June 2018 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 19th June 2018, 10:00 PM   #654
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
Well, coming from a sharp mind as yours, I guess I have to take this seriously.


A very good example, yes. The forensic investigation of the century and all the evidence was transported away, recycled and sold to the highest bidder before they weren’t even alowed on the premises. And when finally allowed to, they forgot to investigate the collapses, stating they were, inevitable, after allegedly, initiated.

Yes, same same.

Good catch.
I see your level of confusion about many things is the same eh?
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Old 19th June 2018, 10:01 PM   #655
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
No, I’ve just started. That said, yes, you can learn a lot of a person on the type of jokes he/she tells.

A lot.
You can learn a great deal about a person watching how they don't debate.

A whole lot
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Old 19th June 2018, 10:08 PM   #656
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
”Yes, I realize now that it’s not possible for me to make a joke about the death of John F. Kennedy or Martin Luther King.”

- Kurt Vonnegut
Really?

Here is some JFK assassination comedy:



Agree?

Last edited by Hans; 19th June 2018 at 10:09 PM. Reason: Added corrected link
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Old 20th June 2018, 01:40 AM   #657
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
And isn't it completely suspicious that not a single investigator stuck a finger in the elephant's trunk?

Page 1 of any forensics handbook.
I now have the mental image of a ballistic pschologist gently asking a traumatised Mannlicher-Carcano, "Can you show me on the elephant where he touched you?"

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Old 20th June 2018, 02:35 AM   #658
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
And here we are more than half a century later arguing trajectories, number of shots and if it was a conspiracy and a coup d’etat.
No, YOU and your chums from CT froot-loop world are "arguing trajectories, number of shots and if it was a conspiracy and a coup d’etat".

The adults in the room know there there were three shots (and only three shots) fired.

The adults in the room knowthat all three were fired by a lone gunman located in the sixth floor of the TSBD,

The adults in the room know that he hit the president with two two of those three shots, the first wounding he and governor Connally, the second mortally wounding the president.
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Old 20th June 2018, 02:40 AM   #659
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Really?

Here is some JFK assassination comedy:



Agree?
"In Behold a Pale Horse, Cooper asserted that President John F. Kennedy was assassinated because he was about to reveal that extraterrestrials were in the process of taking over the Earth. According to a "top secret" video of the assassination that Cooper claimed to have discovered, the driver of the presidential limousine, William Greer, used "a gas pressure device developed by aliens from the Trilateral Commission" to shoot the president from the driver's seat."

I real life Fox Mulder. Comedy gold that!
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Last edited by smartcooky; 20th June 2018 at 02:46 AM.
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Old 20th June 2018, 05:51 AM   #660
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
No, I’ve just started. That said, yes, you can learn a lot of a person on the type of jokes he/she tells.

A lot.
Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
stop whining and be productive
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Old 20th June 2018, 06:10 AM   #661
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
No, I’ve just started. That said, yes, you can learn a lot of a person on the type of jokes he/she tells.

A lot.
Just started lying, making stuff up, and insulting posters that school you?
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Old 20th June 2018, 06:49 AM   #662
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
And here we are more than half a century later arguing trajectories, number of shots and if it was a conspiracy and a coup d’etat.
Not really. We've known the number of shots and trajectories for decades now, and despite deliberate muddying of the waters from the Mark Lanes and Oliver Stones of the world, the facts of the case are just as clear now as they've ever been.

Belief in a conspiracy in the JFK shooting has been steadily declining since the 90s. People are starting to see the conspiracy nonsense for what it is, slowly but surely.
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Old 20th June 2018, 07:10 AM   #663
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
And here we are more than half a century later arguing trajectories, number of shots and if it was a conspiracy and a coup d’etat.
You and others continue advocating for such things a half-century later, which for most people seem to have been settled long ago. Others are listening to your advocacy and then asking you for proper evidence for it. You decline to produce it, and become belligerent and evasive when pressed. I'm not sure you should be pointing fingers at others for incorrigible behavior.

Quote:
Yes, it clearly was the autopsy of the century.
Not by any standard except later morbid interest among a shrinking fringe. Suspicion arising from implications of improper procedure, missteps, and mistakes requires a frame that makes those allegations salient. You manufacture that frame by exalting the import of the autopsy beyond reason. You need the autopsy to be a high-stakes affair for your theory so that everything you dream up about it suddenly has a dramatic gravitas.

Sadly your bare ipse dixit doesn't grant the autopsy its desired import. You fail to provide an evident perspective for it that goes beyond ignorant handwaving. You fail to consider the effects of special factors in this autopsy. The burden for the premise of import consists not just in arguing that the autopsy should have had a certain significance and been done a certain way, but also in showing that this is the framework the participants actually operated under. Reframing evidence to fit (or in this case, fail to fit) your preconceptions is not good history.
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Old 20th June 2018, 07:56 AM   #664
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Originally Posted by traxy View Post
Belief in a conspiracy in the JFK shooting has been steadily declining since the 90s. People are starting to see the conspiracy nonsense for what it is, slowly but surely.
Fascinating that you mentioned the 1990's. Posner's 'Case closed' was the last book I read on the JFK assassination......and I lost interest in the assassination after I started working overseas full time. It was published in 1993.
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Old 20th June 2018, 07:59 AM   #665
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
"In Behold a Pale Horse, Cooper asserted that President John F. Kennedy was assassinated because he was about to reveal that extraterrestrials were in the process of taking over the Earth. According to a "top secret" video of the assassination that Cooper claimed to have discovered, the driver of the presidential limousine, William Greer, used "a gas pressure device developed by aliens from the Trilateral Commission" to shoot the president from the driver's seat."

I real life Fox Mulder. Comedy gold that!
Yeah I found a 10 cent copy of his book 'Behold a pale horse' at a garage sale. Forced myself to read it - pure insanity.
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Old 20th June 2018, 09:00 AM   #666
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Fascinating that you mentioned the 1990's. Posner's 'Case closed' was the last book I read on the JFK assassination......and I lost interest in the assassination after I started working overseas full time. It was published in 1993.
Cue meaningless criticisms of Posner's book, like he didn't credit certain people appropriately or plagiarized some passages in another book. None of which affects the accuracy of his Case Closed book.

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Old 20th June 2018, 09:01 AM   #667
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
Yes, it clearly was the autopsy of the century.
You asked for an example of your committing what I've referred to generally as the momentous-history (or momentous-moment) fallacy. You just provided it above. Please do not reply, "Prove it. Show me" (though I suspect you'll do just that).

Last edited by OKBob; 20th June 2018 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 20th June 2018, 09:05 AM   #668
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
Well, coming from a sharp mind as yours, I guess I have to take this seriously.


The forensic investigation of the century and all the evidence was transported away, recycled and sold to the highest bidder before they weren’t even alowed on the premises.
Again, a perfect example, in your own newly minted words, of the fallacy that says, "Because this event was of great historical significance, and because the investigation looks wrong to me, therefore there was hanky-panky." Thank you for saving me the time.
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Old 20th June 2018, 09:08 AM   #669
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Not by any standard except later morbid interest among a shrinking fringe. Suspicion arising from implications of improper procedure, missteps, and mistakes requires a frame that makes those allegations salient. You manufacture that frame by exalting the import of the autopsy beyond reason. You need the autopsy to be a high-stakes affair for your theory so that everything you dream up about it suddenly has a dramatic gravitas.

Sadly your bare ipse dixit doesn't grant the autopsy its desired import. You fail to provide an evident perspective for it that goes beyond ignorant handwaving. You fail to consider the effects of special factors in this autopsy. The burden for the premise of import consists not just in arguing that the autopsy should have had a certain significance and been done a certain way, but also in showing that this is the framework the participants actually operated under. Reframing evidence to fit (or in this case, fail to fit) your preconceptions is not good history.
Manifesto, if you're listening, Jay has nicely expanded here on aspects of the momentous-history fallacy.
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Old 20th June 2018, 09:09 AM   #670
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
Cue meaningless criticisms of Posner's book, like he didn't credit certain people appropriately or plagiarized some passages in another book. None of which affects the accuracy of his Case Closed book.

Hank
Yearly reminder: Gerald Posner literally lied through his teeth about the EOP/cowlick controversy to make a name for himself in the research community.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180302...rb/index74.htm

Dr. Gary Aguilar's sworn statement:

Under Item Number 7, there were some recent revelations, and for this I have brought copies to give to you. I have three copies for you, and I could make more if they are needed, but three copies I will pass to you. As I mentioned, JFK's pathologist James Humes, J. Thornton Boswell described the entrance to the President's skull wound as being to the right and just above the external occipital protuberance in the original autopsy report. They repeated that assertion in an interview published in the Journal of the American Medical Association on May 27th, 1992.

On November 17th, 1993, author Gerald Posner, the author of the book Case Closed reported to the Congress Committee that he had interviewed both Dr. Humes and Dr. Boswell at apparently the same time they were interviewed by the Journal of the American Medical Association in 1992. Mr. Posner reported that Drs. Humes and Boswell told him that JFK's skull wound was not low and near the rear, near the external occipital protuberance, but rather it was high in the President's skull.

Mr. Posner indicated during his testimony to the Representative of Congress that he would ask Dr. Humes and Boswell for permission to release information on his interviews with them, but he has not done so to my knowledge.

On March 30th of this year, I, myself, called both Drs. Humes and Boswell to inquire about Mr. Posner's report of their surprising turnabout on this important question. Dr. Humes indicated to me that he stood firmly by his statements in JAMA. Dr. Boswell also told me that he had never changed his mind about the low location of JFK's skull wound and, moreover, Dr. Boswell told me that had never spoken with Mr. Posner. I have a recording of this and I would be happy to leave it with you, if you would like. As I spoke with both pathologists four-and-a-half months after Mr. Posner's claim, I am baffled at this discrepancy.
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Old 20th June 2018, 09:15 AM   #671
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
Again, my claim was and is that they were reported witnesses reporting observing suspect shooters and suspect weapons behind the fence on the knoll.

Your opinion of said witnesses and their reported observations is of no relevance to my claim.
Some days ago, I posted my own testimony. I told you that I was standing behind the grassy-knoll fence at the moment of the JFK assassination and saw no one with a weapon there or in that vicinity. It's true that I'm coming forward for the first time now, but your criteria prevent you from impeaching me on that basis. Are you now including me on your list of witnesses? If not, why not?
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Old 20th June 2018, 09:34 AM   #672
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MicahJava, you know you can palpate (touch and feel) your own and other's (with their permission) external occipital protuberance. With flesh on the head and neck it is not at the base of the head. Anything slightly above and to the right is close to the top of the head. People describe things differently all the time.
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Old 20th June 2018, 09:34 AM   #673
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Yearly reminder: Gerald Posner literally lied through his teeth about the EOP/cowlick controversy to make a name for himself in the research community.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180302...rb/index74.htm

Dr. Gary Aguilar's sworn statement:

Under Item Number 7, there were some recent revelations, and for this I have brought copies to give to you. I have three copies for you, and I could make more if they are needed, but three copies I will pass to you. As I mentioned, JFK's pathologist James Humes, J. Thornton Boswell described the entrance to the President's skull wound as being to the right and just above the external occipital protuberance in the original autopsy report. They repeated that assertion in an interview published in the Journal of the American Medical Association on May 27th, 1992.

On November 17th, 1993, author Gerald Posner, the author of the book Case Closed reported to the Congress Committee that he had interviewed both Dr. Humes and Dr. Boswell at apparently the same time they were interviewed by the Journal of the American Medical Association in 1992. Mr. Posner reported that Drs. Humes and Boswell told him that JFK's skull wound was not low and near the rear, near the external occipital protuberance, but rather it was high in the President's skull.

Mr. Posner indicated during his testimony to the Representative of Congress that he would ask Dr. Humes and Boswell for permission to release information on his interviews with them, but he has not done so to my knowledge.

On March 30th of this year, I, myself, called both Drs. Humes and Boswell to inquire about Mr. Posner's report of their surprising turnabout on this important question. Dr. Humes indicated to me that he stood firmly by his statements in JAMA. Dr. Boswell also told me that he had never changed his mind about the low location of JFK's skull wound and, moreover, Dr. Boswell told me that had never spoken with Mr. Posner. I have a recording of this and I would be happy to leave it with you, if you would like. As I spoke with both pathologists four-and-a-half months after Mr. Posner's claim, I am baffled at this discrepancy.
So Posner says one thing, and a committed CT says something else. That means Posner is lying? Walk me through the logic there.

Hank
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Last edited by HSienzant; 20th June 2018 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 20th June 2018, 10:47 AM   #674
traxy
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
MicahJava, you know you can palpate (touch and feel) your own and other's (with their permission) external occipital protuberance. With flesh on the head and neck it is not at the base of the head. Anything slightly above and to the right is close to the top of the head. People describe things differently all the time.
They didn't take proper measurements of the entry wound during the autopsy. Anything they said after the fact is ballparking the location based on memory, plus Kennedy's skull was shattered and likely shifting around. The difference is a matter of a couple of inches.
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Old 20th June 2018, 10:54 AM   #675
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I know. He makes it seem the EOP is a lot lower than it is. Add anatomy to the list of things he is ignorant of.
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Old 20th June 2018, 10:58 AM   #676
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
”Yes, I realize now that it’s not possible for me to make a joke about the death of John F. Kennedy or Martin Luther King.”

- Kurt Vonnegut







We're not making fun of the assassination, we're mocking CTists.
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Old 20th June 2018, 11:27 AM   #677
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post



http://i64.tinypic.com/2dui9eb.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/nzknyv.jpg

We're not making fun of the assassination, we're mocking CTists.
To your knowledge has the second image undergone some sort of manipulation? I swear I do see an elephant behind the SS car and to the right.
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Old 20th June 2018, 11:46 AM   #678
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So clearly Republicans were behind the assassination.
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Old 20th June 2018, 11:55 AM   #679
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
To your knowledge has the second image undergone some sort of manipulation? I swear I do see an elephant behind the SS car and to the right.
We don't talk about the elephant...
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Old 20th June 2018, 11:58 AM   #680
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
So clearly Republicans were behind the assassination.
Don't be hasty - everybody knows Elephants eat peanuts and Jimmy Carter was a peanut farmer...
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