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Old 19th March 2019, 10:43 AM   #3761
Belz...
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I can't speak for Belz... but when there's a global civilization bent on my destruction, I'd prefer to get started on my counter-attack *before* they get started on their murderous program.
Oh, definitely. Kill 'em all.
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Old 19th March 2019, 10:44 AM   #3762
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Ok so we agree that an unreasonable expectation of harm is not a good defense, right?

So why would it work in the off duty policewoman's defense?
you unintentionally overlooked something.
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Old 19th March 2019, 10:48 AM   #3763
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I'm sick of this chick being Schrodinger's Cop, in a state of "Well she's been trained to draw her weapon when faced with a threat" and "But she was just acting as a citizen in this moment! She was off duty!" at the same time.

Especially since I don't care either way if she was a cop, a citizen, or a secret agent. You still identify your target.
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Old 19th March 2019, 10:50 AM   #3764
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Double post, ignore.
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Old 19th March 2019, 10:51 AM   #3765
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Originally Posted by Whip View Post
you unintentionally overlooked something.
That makes absolutely no difference to me.
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Old 20th March 2019, 12:30 PM   #3766
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Originally Posted by Whip View Post
you unintentionally overlooked something.
This article says it is state law that an off-duty officer should try to stop a crime in progress. It was published before the murder charge, and before the wrongful death suit, but it brings up many of the points that are being talked about here. https://www.dallasnews.com/news/cour...g-duty-officer

Joe Morgue should contact the author about her daring to mention the fatigue of the officer... it seems like anyone who mentions it here gets labeled as a racist...
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Old 20th March 2019, 12:37 PM   #3767
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
This article says it is state law that an off-duty officer should try to stop a crime in progress. It was published before the murder charge, and before the wrongful death suit, but it brings up many of the points that are being talked about here. https://www.dallasnews.com/news/cour...g-duty-officer

Joe Morgue should contact the author about her daring to mention the fatigue of the officer... it seems like anyone who mentions it here gets labeled as a racist...
No, but mentioning the fatigue of the officer is not an excuse, if you think that negligence homicide is an appropriate minimum charge. I'm willing to believe that she is guilty of a more serious homicide, but the negligence should be a slam dunk.
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Old 20th March 2019, 12:47 PM   #3768
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It is known precedence that if someone is not conscious at the time of the crime, then they might not be found guilty. I think this may be part of the defense, since they are asking for time sheets from the DPD. The fact that this possibility is brought up, has no bearing on whether I personally think she is going to get off the charge.
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Old 20th March 2019, 01:08 PM   #3769
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
It is known precedence that if someone is not conscious at the time of the crime, then they might not be found guilty.
.....
You're not claiming Guyger was unconscious, are you? I don't think that's the word you intend, but I'm not sure what you really mean.
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Old 20th March 2019, 01:17 PM   #3770
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
You're not claiming Guyger was unconscious, are you? I don't think that's the word you intend, but I'm not sure what you really mean.
Ahh, the ole sleepwalking defense. Prosecutors hate it, it works every time /s
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Old 20th March 2019, 01:46 PM   #3771
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
It is known precedence that if someone is not conscious at the time of the crime, then they might not be found guilty. I think this may be part of the defense, since they are asking for time sheets from the DPD. The fact that this possibility is brought up, has no bearing on whether I personally think she is going to get off the charge.
Oh okay. The next time a sleeping black guy shoots a police officer who's executing a no-knock warrant in the middle of the night I expect the same 90 pages of "The Epic Story Of the Defense Team's Air Tight 'They were tired' Legal Strategy That Totally Isn't Saying They Should Get Off" fan fiction from you and the rest of the On Call Dead Black Person Apologetic Squad. I expect 12 page back and forths about the location of door mats and apartment numbers. I want you to strain with the same amount of effort to come up with a reason it's not murder.

I won't see it though. Funny how that works.
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Old 20th March 2019, 01:54 PM   #3772
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
It is known precedence that if someone is not conscious at the time of the crime, then they might not be found guilty. I think this may be part of the defense, since they are asking for time sheets from the DPD. The fact that this possibility is brought up, has no bearing on whether I personally think she is going to get off the charge.
I thought it was the prosecution that had subpoenaed her time cards?
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Old 20th March 2019, 06:27 PM   #3773
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I thought it was the prosecution that had subpoenaed her time cards?
Yeah, I wouldn't think the defense would need a warrant.
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Old 20th March 2019, 09:05 PM   #3774
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
This article says it is state law that an off-duty officer should try to stop a crime in progress.
What was the crime that was in progress?
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Old 21st March 2019, 05:33 AM   #3775
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
What was the crime that was in progress?
There was no crime in progress.

However, an off-duty officer, acting under the color of the law, might THINK there was a crime in progress.

How many people get shot each year for pulling their cell phone out of their pocket? They didn't commit a crime.
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Old 21st March 2019, 05:39 AM   #3776
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Good thing for you that there isn't much chance of a global civilization any time in the foreseeable future.



It's in the eye of the beholder, obviously. Remember the hypothetical we're considering.
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Old 21st March 2019, 05:56 AM   #3777
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
There was no crime in progress.

However, an off-duty officer, acting under the color of the law, might THINK there was a crime in progress.
What? What are you own about?

So she sleepwalked into someone else apartment because she thought there was a crime in progress?

Quote:
How many people get shot each year for pulling their cell phone out of their pocket? They didn't commit a crime.
Yeah if the person with the cellphone is black the cops don't even commit a crime apparently.
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Old 21st March 2019, 06:05 AM   #3778
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
So she sleepwalked into someone else apartment because she thought there was a crime in progress?
Pay attention, in this scenario, she mistakenly went into the wrong apartment, where she encounters the victim. She then assumes there is a crime in progress, orders him to stop, and shoots him.

The wrong apartment falls under mistake of fact (The defense will try to get that part of the story stricken), the shooting would fall under reasonable threat.

This is the only case like this, ever.

If it were a black cop, I would hope that I would be looking at it with the same eye. I would strive to, I don't let race drive my commentary.
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Old 21st March 2019, 06:06 AM   #3779
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Oh we're back to writing completely unrelated fan fiction. Got it.

"But the cop didn't do anything wrong in this alternative universe I'm making up!"
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Old 21st March 2019, 10:07 AM   #3780
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
There was no crime in progress.

However, an off-duty officer, acting under the color of the law, might THINK there was a crime in progress.

How many people get shot each year for pulling their cell phone out of their pocket? They didn't commit a crime.
The law doesn't seem to mention "think" anywhere. And it's a pretty dangerous thing when you encourage a cop to believe they can think. Pretty soon they wander into random apartments and start shooting.
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Old 21st March 2019, 11:31 AM   #3781
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OK, then what do you call it when someone reaches in their pocket for a cell phone, and the cop thinks subject is reaching for a weapon?
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Old 21st March 2019, 11:37 AM   #3782
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Are there people who think Guyger's entry into Jean's apartment won't be seen by a jury as a mistake?

Why couldn't she just call for backup and wait, or taze him?

Her immediate use of deadly force is what will doom her case

Despite all of the discussion of alternative realities, I can't see Guyger getting past that.
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Old 21st March 2019, 11:43 AM   #3783
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Are there people who think Guyger's entry into Jean's apartment won't be seen by a jury as a mistake?

Why couldn't she just call for backup and wait, or taze him?

Her immediate use of deadly force is what will doom her case

Despite all of the discussion of alternative realities, I can't see Guyger getting past that.
i don't either and she well shouldn't.
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Old 21st March 2019, 11:43 AM   #3784
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
OK, then what do you call it when someone reaches in their pocket for a cell phone, and the cop thinks subject is reaching for a weapon?
Would need more info on the exact circumstances.

Maybe Guyger can remember Jean having something in his hand?

But no, she was a zombie and wouldn't notice that...
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Old 21st March 2019, 12:05 PM   #3785
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
OK, then what do you call it when someone reaches in their pocket for a cell phone, and the cop thinks subject is reaching for a weapon?
Stupid?
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Old 21st March 2019, 12:06 PM   #3786
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Would need more info on the exact circumstances.



Maybe Guyger can remember Jean having something in his hand?



But no, she was a zombie and wouldn't notice that...
Hey hold on a minute - it appears he was eating cereal with intent of watching telly!
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Old 21st March 2019, 12:27 PM   #3787
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Hey hold on a minute - it appears he was eating cereal with intent of watching telly!
The odds are very slim he was eating LIFE cereal.
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Old 21st March 2019, 01:00 PM   #3788
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Originally Posted by bytewizard View Post
The odds are very slim he was eating LIFE cereal.
Perhaps the shooter saw him morph into the "ME WANT HONEYCOMB" monster and became afraid for her life.
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Old 21st March 2019, 01:20 PM   #3789
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
OK, then what do you call it when someone reaches in their pocket for a cell phone, and the cop thinks subject is reaching for a weapon?
I would call that a product of what appears to be a common US police attitude that reflects a military mindset rather than a policing mindset.
The training that I received (RCMP - Canada's national police force) and then passed on to later recruits requires that you give the benefit of the doubt over that of your own personal safety. You must clearly and unequivocally identify the threat! If that takes an extra second or two - well, that's the job.
If you don't want to work in a job that can be dangerous - go arrange flowers for a living.
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Old 21st March 2019, 02:21 PM   #3790
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
OK, then what do you call it when someone reaches in their pocket for a cell phone, and the cop thinks subject is reaching for a weapon?
Would need more info on the exact circumstances.

<snip>

Why?

It's all the info a cop needs to justify opening fire.

And it seems to be good enough for D.A.s and juries.
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Old 21st March 2019, 02:25 PM   #3791
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
I would call that a product of what appears to be a common US police attitude that reflects a military television cop action/drama mindset rather than a policing mindset.

FTFY

Quote:
The training that I received (RCMP - Canada's national police force) and then passed on to later recruits requires that you give the benefit of the doubt over that of your own personal safety. You must clearly and unequivocally identify the threat! If that takes an extra second or two - well, that's the job.
If you don't want to work in a job that can be dangerous - go arrange flowers for a living.

That sounds more like military training. Good for the RCMP.
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Old 21st March 2019, 03:27 PM   #3792
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Originally Posted by bytewizard View Post
The odds are very slim he was eating LIFE cereal.
certainly wasn't lucky charms either.
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Old 22nd March 2019, 12:26 AM   #3793
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
OK, then what do you call it when someone reaches in their pocket for a cell phone, and the cop thinks subject is reaching for a weapon?
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Stupid?
America?
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Old 22nd March 2019, 01:17 AM   #3794
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I can't speak for Belz... but when there's a global civilization bent on my destruction, I'd prefer to get started on my counter-attack *before* they get started on their murderous program.
So you support Antifa? Very cool, did not expect you to say this, but thanks for the support comrade!

Awesome that you finally came out as a leftist!
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Old 22nd March 2019, 05:52 AM   #3795
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
So you support Antifa? Very cool, did not expect you to say this, but thanks for the support comrade!

Awesome that you finally came out as a leftist!
It's an interesting proposition. We were talking about a paranoid psychopath embarking on a genocidal program. I've never really thought of Antifa that way, but now that you mention it... I still don't really think of Antifa that way. I'll certainly keep it in mind, though. If it turns out to be true, you'll find my actual response a back towards the beginning of this exchange:

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I would say that yes you are. I would also say that if you tried to act on that belief, everyone else would be justified in turning it into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Old 22nd March 2019, 08:37 AM   #3796
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Or-

Was she ordered not to leave the state? The shooting didn't happen until 2019, so why go back to 2018?
or, Did Jean go on a cruise and they may have met?



Mod InfoThread closed, due to size; continued here.
Posted By:zooterkin
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Last edited by zooterkin; 22nd March 2019 at 08:46 AM.
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