New Zealand Politics, the Ardern years

[MarkCorrigan]

So no then. No one reputable, just aging cranks.

[MarkCorrigan]

Originally Posted by Samson

Hell no, the "reputable" news sources checked out 6 years ago when labour started selling out.

Is typically what conspiracy theorists and old people annoyed that the world is changing and hate the change even if they don't understand it say.

Originally Posted by Samson

It actually began with Rodney Hide

From ACT, the very right wing party.

Originally Posted by Samson

and John Key,

From the Nats, who are also right wing.

Also do you mean the John Key who said he would have voted for Donald Trump and outright fascist-racist and homophobe Jair Bolsanaro? That John Key?

Amazing. Real winners there Samson. Not surprised you like someone who supports fascist-racists and homophobes though.

Originally Posted by Samson

but too complicated for me to explain right now.

Yes, because everyone knows there's only so much time to post on an online forum, because if you take too long composing a post the goblins will eat you.

Seriously, we aren't meeting face to face, you have all the time in the world to compose a post. You can even do it in bits over several periods online. This forum isn't going anywhere.

Originally Posted by Samson

The news sources are run by women your age and younger.

Which is a bad thing in your mind?

Why did you join the Women's Equality Party? I mean I know they're transphobes like you but you don't seem to hold women in high regard either.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

Is typically what conspiracy theorists and old people annoyed that the world is changing and hate the change even if they don't understand it say.


From ACT, the very right wing party.

From the Nats, who are also right wing.

Also do you mean the John Key who said he would have voted for Donald Trump and outright fascist-racist and homophobe Jair Bolsanaro? That John Key?

Amazing. Real winners there Samson. Not surprised you like someone who supports fascist-racists and homophobes though.

Yes, because everyone knows there's only so much time to post on an online forum, because if you take too long composing a post the goblins will eat you.

Seriously, we aren't meeting face to face, you have all the time in the world to compose a post. You can even do it in bits over several periods online. This forum isn't going anywhere.

Which is a bad thing in your mind?

Why did you join the Women's Equality Party? I mean I know they're transphobes like you but you don't seem to hold women in high regard either.

My mother and her friends fought in women's liberation battles, they went to work when they didn't need to. That's the way it was, teaching, studying and so on.
What would they think of violent women phobes like Shaneel Lal?
No idea. I find it harder than ever to anticipate views, with climate change, vaccines, lock downs, men hammering women in their sex based sports, violent men in dresses in Albert Park.
I never thought we would return the spoils of colonization to fractionally dna attributed scoundrels in Smart western suits so they could pretend to move it down the food chain, but instead steal the money and distribute to phony lecturers to the civil service.

Multi choice question.
Will I be praised for that free speech I just delivered under the proposed protocol we are discussing?

A. Yes
B. No.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle

So you're voting for a "gender critical", i.e. homophobic, party which was set up to protect Kellie-Jane Keane's right to bring neo-nazis along to her talks to shut up those who disagree with her. Why am I not surprised?

Gender critical is not synonymous with homophobic. They are in fact far apart.

[Agatha]

Remain civil, please

Responding to this modbox in thread will be off topic Posted By:Agatha

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Samson

From the blog of a governor of the reserve bank and ex leader of the National party...

...failed politician who was too far right for even the National Party.

FTFY.

I'm not even going to bother noting Rodney Hide is a climate change denier.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

...failed politician who was too far right for even the National Party.

FTFY.

I'm not even going to bother noting Rodney Hide is a climate change denier.

Rodney is a mystery. I find it hard to predict who will be a climate change denier unless in the Green labour or national caucus lol.
To be clear, I hope we can treat each issue on its merits until the Luxon years thread begins, and we can wallow in a whole new pond of misery.
My youtube algo assumes because I am anti transing kids I am an anthropogenic climate change denier and a Christian evangelist.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Samson

My youtube algo assumes because I am anti transing kids I am an anthropogenic climate change denier and a Christian evangelist.

Fancy that.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Fancy that.

No.
It tells me the contemporary left couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Samson

My youtube algo assumes because I am anti transing kids I am an anthropogenic climate change denier and a Christian evangelist.

I wonder why the algorithm thinks there is so much overlap between these things.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I wonder why the algorithm thinks there is so much overlap between these things.

https://media.giphy.com/media/KZdaJU...VPMF/giphy.gif

Is it my job to try to answer as an Atheist world is burning save the children nutter.

[arthwollipot]

I can't even parse that sentence.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Samson

No.
It tells me the contemporary left couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time.

Drawing conclusions about the left because the right are racist, misogynist, climate change-denying filth is a new take.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Drawing conclusions about the left because the right are racist, misogynist, climate change-denying filth is a new take.

You saw Ardern supporting the mysogeny of Islam by concealing her hair.

[MarkCorrigan]

Originally Posted by Samson

You saw Ardern supporting the mysogeny of Islam by concealing her hair.

Respecting a basic tradition while meeting others? Horrors!

It's not like she wore a full niqab or burka is it? She wore a headscarf.

You know there are sects of Christianity and Judaism that state women should cover their hair too right?

Your English is getting worse, if that's possible. Are you sure you've got a degree, because if I wrote like you I'd have failed mine.


The people you support and draw your information from are reactionary right wing nutjobs. That you accept their weirdly limp takes on "the left" is no surprise. You've already admitted to only looking for sources that agree with you (or you think agree with you) and not investigating further.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

Respecting a basic tradition while meeting others? Horrors!

It's not like she wore a full niqab or burka is it? She wore a headscarf.

You know there are sects of Christianity and Judaism that state women should cover their hair too right?

Your English is getting worse, if that's possible. Are you sure you've got a degree, because if I wrote like you I'd have failed mine.


The people you support and draw your information from are reactionary right wing nutjobs. That you accept their weirdly limp takes on "the left" is no surprise. You've already admitted to only looking for sources that agree with you (or you think agree with you) and not investigating further.

You seem to misunderstand the asymmetry.
The left embrace Islam because the right do not. Yet objectively it is a repugnant religion in so far as what is possible when it is followed. The fact Afghanistan is ignored by your lot rests my case.

[MarkCorrigan]

Any evidence that "the left" embraces Islam?

[Roger Ramjets]

Originally Posted by Samson

You saw Ardern supporting the mysogeny of Islam by concealing her hair.

And I saw Ardern supporting the 'mysogeny' of Christianity by concealing her body with a dress!

Quote:

You seem to misunderstand the asymmetry.
The left embrace Islam because the right do not. Yet objectively it is a repugnant religion in so far as what is possible when it is followed. The fact Afghanistan is ignored by your lot rests my case.

Case? You have no case.

Islam, like all established religions, is inherently conservative. 'The left' as you call it, 'embraces' Islam only in so far as it supports cultural diversity and the welfare of all people. You will be hard pressed to find a liberal who 'embraces' the current regimes in Saudi Arabia, Iran or even Afghanistan. In fact it's more likely that someone on the 'right' would find their principles attractive.

You call Islam 'morally repugnant', but what about the religion your own country's culture and laws are based on? A culture that has imbued you with a misogyny as bad as any - made all the worse by your refusal to admit to it. Your disgusting misogynist rants against Jacinda Arden are a prime example of the kind of abuse women in positions of power (and elsewhere) face in New Zealand. People like you are the ones responsible for her having to step down because she couldn't take it any more. Congratulations, a victory for misogyny in New Zealand!

[Samson]

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

And I saw Ardern supporting the 'mysogeny' of Christianity by concealing her body with a dress!

Case? You have no case.

Islam, like all established religions, is inherently conservative. 'The left' as you call it, 'embraces' Islam only in so far as it supports cultural diversity and the welfare of all people. You will be hard pressed to find a liberal who 'embraces' the current regimes in Saudi Arabia, Iran or even Afghanistan. In fact it's more likely that someone on the 'right' would find their principles attractive.

You call Islam 'morally repugnant', but what about the religion your own country's culture and laws are based on? A culture that has imbued you with a misogyny as bad as any - made all the worse by your refusal to admit to it. Your disgusting misogynist rants against Jacinda Arden are a prime example of the kind of abuse women in positions of power (and elsewhere) face in New Zealand. People like you are the ones responsible for her having to step down because she couldn't take it any more. Congratulations, a victory for misogyny in New Zealand!

I think you mistake me for someone else on Ardern. I can never figure if you are here or America, but the DEI work in New Zealand is as malevolent as anywhere in the world, if you believe jobs should be safe from the need for extreme self censorship, and if you believe as I do that Maori are cynically sucking at the state tit instead of teaching their littlies the queen's English.

[MarkCorrigan]

It's not the Queen's english anymore, she's dead.

Why on earth are you so obsessed with the Maori learning a language you are not proficient in yourself? Why won't you present evidence for any of your claims?

Wait, I know that one.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

It's not the Queen's english anymore, she's dead.

Why on earth are you so obsessed with the Maori learning a language you are not proficient in yourself? Why won't you present evidence for any of your claims?

Wait, I know that one.

I find the English language helpful.

Here is an important question. Should the word Maori have a horizontal line (macron) above the a, to ensure the authentic pronunciation?

[Samson]

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

Any evidence that "the left" embraces Islam?

Emma Web explains a successful smuggling operation to you in this short clip.

https://youtu.be/Y3dTuY6qCLI?si=m2YCBjkwv3eE-jou

New Zealand left wing freaks adopt a similarly craven and obsequious admiration for this vile religion.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Samson

I find the English language helpful.

Here is an important question. Should the word Maori have a horizontal line (macron) above the a, to ensure the authentic pronunciation?

Correct spelling is correct.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Correct spelling is correct.

How about tui? 2 macrons.

You understand what is happening?

[MarkCorrigan]

Originally Posted by Samson

Emma Web explains a successful smuggling operation to you in this short clip.

https://youtu.be/Y3dTuY6qCLI?si=m2YCBjkwv3eE-jou

New Zealand left wing freaks adopt a similarly craven and obsequious admiration for this vile religion.

Emma Webb of the hilariously ironically named Common Sense Society? A union of right wing nutters.

Also GB News? No, don't think I'll be watching that thank you.

Does anyone rational and reputable support what you're saying? Note, I don't mean "left wing". The Times is a right wing newspaper but the standards of journalism are exceptionally high, so it is reputable. GB News is not reputable. It's a fascist mouthpiece tabloid news channel.

[MarkCorrigan]

Originally Posted by Samson

I find the English language helpful.

Do you? I ask because you don't write very well in it.

It certainly is helpful to learn English. That doesn't answer my question though.

Originally Posted by Samson

Here is an important question. Should the word Maori have a horizontal line (macron) above the a, to ensure the authentic pronunciation?

In official communication absolutely. On a web forum when discussing with someone who doesn't have a keyboard that allows him to easily type it? We can get by without it for the purposes of discussion.

Why are you so hell bent on eradicating Maori culture and language?

[Samson]

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

Do you? I ask because you don't write very well in it.

It certainly is helpful to learn English. That doesn't answer my question though.


In official communication absolutely. On a web forum when discussing with someone who doesn't have a keyboard that allows him to easily type it? We can get by without it for the purposes of discussion.

Why are you so hell bent on eradicating Maori culture and language?

I consider the language ideal for scholarly research into spoken only communication.
It has morphed into a monstrous handicap for Maori youth in their path through the world. They are served by neither fish nor fowl, languishing functionally illiterate in jails in both modes.

[MarkCorrigan]

Originally Posted by Samson

I consider the language ideal for scholarly research into spoken only communication.
It has morphed into a monstrous handicap for Maori youth in their path through the world. They are served by neither fish nor fowl, languishing functionally illiterate in jails in both modes.

Absolute gibberish. Would you equally argue that Welsh is a "monstrous handicap"? It's a minority language but it's one that is used as the primary language for a number of the Welsh.

How about Gaellic?

Irish?

[Samson]

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

Do you? I ask because you don't write very well in it.

It certainly is helpful to learn English. That doesn't answer my question though.


In official communication absolutely. On a web forum when discussing with someone who doesn't have a keyboard that allows him to easily type it? We can get by without it for the purposes of discussion.

Why are you so hell bent on eradicating Maori culture and language?

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

Absolute gibberish. Would you equally argue that Welsh is a "monstrous handicap"? It's a minority language but it's one that is used as the primary language for a number of the Welsh.

How about Gaellic?

Irish?

I'm talking about prison inhabitants. You know and ignore my argument. (Didn't mean to quote both posts by the way)

[MarkCorrigan]

Originally Posted by Samson

I'm talking about prison inhabitants. You know and ignore my argument. (Didn't mean to quote both posts by the way)

No, I genuinely don't know your argument because it makes literally zero sense.

You've claimed that better ability in English will keep people out of prison but you've never even attempted to explain how you think this will work, let alone supported it with evidence. You just keep making the claim over and over and over and expecting us to fill in all the gaps ourselves. Only we can't, because there is no way of getting from point A to point B. None.

If I said that more extra curricular activities, after school clubs and closer monitoring of students wellbeing and mental health would reduce the number of people in prison you could easily understand the argument even if you disagreed with it because the link between the things I'm supporting and not being in prison are pretty clear. There is no possible link that I can see between improved English education and incarceration rates. None.

If you wanted me to explain my argument more I could state that more activities for kids helps keep them out of trouble when they're younger and can lead to a reduction in gang membership, and that better mental health checks can prevent kids from going into crime in order to lash out. I could also state that if we give a more well rounded education to the populace the populace will be a more well rounded, happier, smarter and more ethical society.

I could even argue that use of extra curricular sport clubs could provide a safe and appropriate way to blow off steam as well as channelling energy into something much more productive. That groups for more creative pursuits such as art and music could allow the youth to push their energies into something that is beneficial instead of say, tagging private property, or having them feel they are being wasted and ignored and in turn lash out at society.


All you've done is say

Step 1: English
Step 2:????
Step 3:Profit Lower incarceration levels.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

No, I genuinely don't know your argument because it makes literally zero sense.

You've claimed that better ability in English will keep people out of prison but you've never even attempted to explain how you think this will work, let alone supported it with evidence. You just keep making the claim over and over and over and expecting us to fill in all the gaps ourselves. Only we can't, because there is no way of getting from point A to point B. None.

If I said that more extra curricular activities, after school clubs and closer monitoring of students wellbeing and mental health would reduce the number of people in prison you could easily understand the argument even if you disagreed with it because the link between the things I'm supporting and not being in prison are pretty clear. There is no possible link that I can see between improved English education and incarceration rates. None.

If you wanted me to explain my argument more I could state that more activities for kids helps keep them out of trouble when they're younger and can lead to a reduction in gang membership, and that better mental health checks can prevent kids from going into crime in order to lash out. I could also state that if we give a more well rounded education to the populace the populace will be a more well rounded, happier, smarter and more ethical society.

I could even argue that use of extra curricular sport clubs could provide a safe and appropriate way to blow off steam as well as channelling energy into something much more productive. That groups for more creative pursuits such as art and music could allow the youth to push their energies into something that is beneficial instead of say, tagging private property, or having them feel they are being wasted and ignored and in turn lash out at society.


All you've done is say

Step 1: English
Step 2:????
Step 3:Profit Lower incarceration levels.

You make more effort than me so thank you, but I have energy only for structure. I consider a mix of mediocre Maori and English language learning to be shifting sands, useless to build on, but a full spelling, grammar and speech command in the world's lingua franca, and theoretically available in New Zealand but long abandoned except for the quick and the elite, to be a close guarantee to a functioning life, which seldom involves prison.

[MarkCorrigan]

Originally Posted by Samson

You make more effort than me so thank you, but I have energy only for structure. I consider a mix of mediocre Maori and English language learning to be shifting sands, useless to build on, but a full spelling, grammar and speech command in the world's lingua franca, and theoretically available in New Zealand but long abandoned except for the quick and the elite, to be a close guarantee to a functioning life, which seldom involves prison.

That doesn't explain anything, you've just restated your position again.

I don't disagree that better grasp of languages is better, but you've yet to make any effort to explain your position other than just repeating your view.

I understand that you think poor language skills are a bad basis for life, but why on Earth do you think that English is a guarantee to a functioning life? You're making a massive leap of logic I cannot parse.

Further you seem to be against the promotion of learning Maori. Why? Even if it would be better for improved English skills to be taught, why not Maori too?

[Roger Ramjets]

Originally Posted by Samson

I can never figure if you are here or America,

Where I live is irrelevant, but if you want know anyway just read some of my recent posts where I relate personal experiences. Everything I write about myself is totally true, unless obvious parody.

Quote:

if you believe as I do that Maori are cynically sucking at the state tit instead of teaching their littlies the queen's English.

Tit for tat I say. Europeans signed the Treaty of Waitangi so they could get their hands on Maori land without a fight, then cynically abused its terms whenever it suited them. To add fuel to the fire they brought their horrendous fatal diseases and disgusting drug habits with them, then (quite successfully) forced their culture onto the Maori people - including insisting they only speak 'the Queen's' English.

The results were totally predictable and not much different from every other place colonialism stuck its tentacles into. But the treaty still exists despite right wing attempts to buy out the few remaining Maori who had specific claims. Maori may now be 'cynically' getting back some of what they lost, but it's still a huge net gain to whitey.

And now you want to 'fix' the damage we caused by doing more of the same? Figures. You'll probably deny that you're a racist too, right?

[Samson]

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

Where I live is irrelevant, but if you want know anyway just read some of my recent posts where I relate personal experiences. Everything I write about myself is totally true, unless obvious parody.

Tit for tat I say. Europeans signed the Treaty of Waitangi so they could get their hands on Maori land without a fight, then cynically abused its terms whenever it suited them. To add fuel to the fire they brought their horrendous fatal diseases and disgusting drug habits with them, then (quite successfully) forced their culture onto the Maori people - including insisting they only speak 'the Queen's' English.

The results were totally predictable and not much different from every other place colonialism stuck its tentacles into. But the treaty still exists despite right wing attempts to buy out the few remaining Maori who had specific claims. Maori may now be 'cynically' getting back some of what they lost, but it's still a huge net gain to whitey.

And now you want to 'fix' the damage we caused by doing more of the same? Figures. You'll probably deny that you're a racist too, right?

Maori instructed their people to learn English ahead of maori when they realised it was the means of communication that fostered technology, guns, ships and so on.
A little understood FACT Roger.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

... - including insisting they only speak 'the Queen's' English.

I see you've bought that outright lie.

It's always good to see Pakeha buy into that one.

The other point is, Te Tiriti is now a load of ********. Maori language has changed to suit the treaty. What it meant in 1840 nobody alive today can tell us. This is one area I'm in agreement with David Seymour - let's stop living 200 years in the past; compensation has been well and truly paid, and let's put the bloody thing to bed.

I don't see Tainui spending any of their $2B to help the poor bastards living without electricity in the backwoods of Huntly, so I'm damned if I should do.

[Samson]

Sir Apirana Ngata aggressively supported the visitors in not learning maori, but rather Maori learning the Kings English.
He was a far sighted chief. He would be turning in his grave at the resurrection of a mangled pidgin maori language.

[MarkCorrigan]

Even if the language has changed, which is likely (language does evolve afterall), why is it bad to see it given a resurgence?

I don't understand why you're so virulently against the Maori speaking Maori. Sure, teach them English as well, makes it easier to communicate, but why try to kill off their language?

Well I mean apart from the obvious racist angle.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

Even if the language has changed, which is likely (language does evolve afterall), why is it bad to see it given a resurgence?

There's nothing wrong with it at all, and the opposite is actually true - Maori adds to the language. My point about change is that we have no clue what the original Tiriti document said, but we're absolutely certain the English and Maori versions never matched.

The greatest irony is that the complete amalgamation of foreign words we call the English language now contains a number of Maori words and phrases.

Just wait till Sammy realises mana, whare, whanau, andkia kaha are in international English dictionaries. (and are valid Scrabble words!)

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

I don't understand why you're so virulently against the Maori speaking Maori. Sure, teach them English as well, makes it easier to communicate, but why try to kill off their language?

Well I mean apart from the obvious racist angle.

That's the only angle.

We have a country named by a bloke who never set foot here who called us a name relating to his native land 20,000 km away, but gammons have apoplexy about changing the name to the beautiful and completely descriptive Aotearoa. In the meantime we remain stuck with that and cities named after people nobody has any clue about (Auckland) and the main islands named for their geographical position - North and South Islands.

Because I care more about facts than fantasy, for me, the real trouble with the old white men and their anti-Maori language position is it gives weight to the lie on the other side that Maori was ever banned anywhere in this country.

[MarkCorrigan]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

There's nothing wrong with it at all, and the opposite is actually true - Maori adds to the language. My point about change is that we have no clue what the original Tiriti document said, but we're absolutely certain the English and Maori versions never matched.

The greatest irony is that the complete amalgamation of foreign words we call the English language now contains a number of Maori words and phrases.

Just wait till Sammy realises mana, whare, whanau, andkia kaha are in international English dictionaries. (and are valid Scrabble words!)

Oh I don't disagree. There can be misinformation on both sides in any discussion. I think that attempting to parse the document would be a great idea, but assumptions shouldn't be made.

Originally Posted by The Atheist

That's the only angle.

Shhh.. I want to know if Samson can come up with another one.

Originally Posted by The Atheist

We have a country named by a bloke who never set foot here who called us a name relating to his native land 20,000 km away, but gammons have apoplexy about changing the name to the beautiful and completely descriptive Aotearoa. In the meantime we remain stuck with that and cities named after people nobody has any clue about (Auckland) and the main islands named for their geographical position - North and South Islands.

Because I care more about facts than fantasy, for me, the real trouble with the old white men and their anti-Maori language position is it gives weight to the lie on the other side that Maori was ever banned anywhere in this country.

Indeed. Gammons got to gammon though.

[The Atheist]

Humour and sadness in today's news - both 100% about Dame Jacinda. (I thought it was Saint, but looks like I was wrong.).

Let's start with the humour.

SaintDame Jacinda has been held up as the face of empowerment for the past few months, for her bravery in admitting she was burnt out from the stress of the job.

Except, in her own words, that is completely false - she wasn't burnt out at all, and just needed (much like Lange) to have a break and a cuppa.

The sad news.

Jacinda pushed her case from the second she was voted leader of Labour that her prime concern would be ending child poverty.

This is how complete her failure has been, as kids eat cereal for breakfast in working families: https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/13...ing-food-costs

It's been becoming more and more obvious that NZ - once the most egalitarian society on the planet - has become the land of haves and have-nots. As 15,000 Kiwis fly to a holiday destination for the school holidays, tens of thousands of kids are barely being fed.

And it's 100% certain Numpty-Dumpty and Nicola Willis aren't going to make things better for the poor *****.

As the brain drain to Aussie continues, things will only slide further. Ho hum.