[Merged] The Qur'an corrects the mistakes of the false Injil/Torah - Page 4

Porpoise of Life · 11th January 2018, 04:58 AM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

I didn't say everyone here was a missionary. I see there's only a few people.

They already put a few sentries on every forum.

If you look carefully, it's easy to know. They act as if they have a belief other than Christianity.

But when the time comes, they make moves in favour of Christianity.

Well, for what it's worth... As far as I'm concerned you, the Christians, and the Jews, all the 'peoples of the books' are wrong.
There's no YHWH/God the Father/Allah.
And all three holy books are full of inaccuracies, inconsistencies, lies, myths and propaganda, which shows they were written by the people of their time, and not (inspired) by an omiscient creator.

aleCcowaN · 11th January 2018, 05:45 AM

Emre is a Pagan here, as he believes in a god too many. Which franchise? That's a minor detail.

Besides the fact 19 is a stupid number.

The Big Dog · 11th January 2018, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

Examples:

Quran 7:40 Those who have denied Our signs, and reacted to them with arrogance, the gates of the sky will not open for them, nor will they enter paradise until the camel passes through the eye of a needle. It is such that We recompense the criminals.

2- Not rich people, the disbelievers/bad peoples will go to hell.

Couple of things, first of all the fact that Mohammad "borrowed" our Lord and Savior's metaphor about camel passing through the eye of a needle does not make the Holy Bible "false."

Second Mohammed had no hesitation in blatantly "borrowing" from Christ, now did he?

baron · 11th January 2018, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

Couple of things, first of all the fact that Mohammad "borrowed" our Lord and Savior's metaphor about camel passing through the eye of a needle does not make the Holy Bible "false."

More likely a rope than a camel.

aleCcowaN · 11th January 2018, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

... our Lord and Savior's metaphor

... valid for a value of we locally tending to just one person

(and probably a handful among all the people who has read or will ever read from this thread)

Myriad · 11th January 2018, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

... valid for a value of we locally tending to just one person

(and probably a handful among all the people who has read or will ever read from this thread)

Shush, you'll give Secret ~~Agent~~ Christian Missionary TBD's game away!

He's already having enough trouble with the "pretending not to be Christian" part, without you prodding him on it!

Craig B · 11th January 2018, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Craig4

Or MoMo just made it all up because he was high and/or crazy.

Not necessarily. He simply shared the general ignorance of his time, and thought the sun moves across the sky to a destination ordained by God. He didn't know that the Sun's apparent motion is the effect of the daily and annual rotation of the Earth.

Muhammad had some primitive ideas about the motion of the Sun. Here's Quran 18:83

They will ask thee of Dhu'l-Qarneyn. Say: I shall recite unto you a remembrance of him. Lo! We made him strong in the land and gave him unto every thing a road. And he followed a road Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring.

Modern Muslim commentators strive mightily to reinterpret this passage as a metaphor of some kind, or that it was seen setting over the Sea, or something like that. But I think the passage was intended literally by a person without any knowledge of the true structure of the solar system.

Scorpion · 11th January 2018, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

Not imams, we are researchers and thinkers saying that the sun is going to a decision spot in galaxy.

The Qur'an says it clearly.

38- And the Sun moves on to its destination.
That is the ordinance of the Mighty, the Knower.
(36- Ya-Seen, 38)

http://www.quranmiracles.com/2011/03...o-moves-along/

If you read the book in integrity, it's not just the galaxies, it's about our adventure journey in the universes.

We're telling the truth.

But you Christian missionaries are lying.

The sun does not move to a destination, it orbits the galaxy. But Muhammad did not know this and he thought it orbits the earth. If you accepted the following hadith you would see that there is no doubt of this.

The quran says the sun orbits the earth, therefore it is not from God.

when the quran says, at sura 21.33 and 36.40 and 36.38 that the sun has an orbit, Imams falsely claim this is a great revelation, because Muhammad knew the sun had an orbit in the galaxy. But the quran is actually saying the sun orbits the flat earth and is reset every dawn , and I can prove it with the following hadith.

Hadith Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421:
Narrated Abu Dhar:

The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing." (36.38)

As can be seen it says that if the sun changed direction it would rise in the west. But if the sun changed direction in its orbit in the galaxy it would make no difference to the sun rising in the east, because it is the rotation of the earth that causes the appearance of the sun in the east. The hadith is clearly saying the sun orbits the earth, and it is a fuller explanation of verse 36.38 in the quran.

The Big Dog · 11th January 2018, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by Myriad

Shush, you'll give Secret ~~Agent~~ Christian Missionary TBD's game away!

He's already having enough trouble with the "pretending not to be Christian" part, without you prodding him on it!

doing what now?

aleCcowaN · 11th January 2018, 12:16 PM

Let's honour the thread's title and compare this piece of mythological stuff, based on a prophecy:

prophecy (nothing too bad with it, as it is just babbling about the future) made by "Isaiah" about 700 BC:

Quote:

^{Isaiah 7:13} And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?
¹⁴Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
¹⁵ Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
¹⁶ For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

The annunciation according to Matthew (about 90 CE)

Quote:

[1:18] Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
[19] Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
[20] But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
[21] And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
[22] Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
[23] Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

But Luke (circa 100 CE) or his revisionists (second century CE) had more to tell:

Quote:

1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Which is exactly what the Quran (640-650 CE, years after Muhammad's death) takes

Quote:

3.47 She said, "My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?" [The angel] said, "Such is Allah ; He creates what He wills. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is.

3.48 And He will teach him writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel

3.49 And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah . And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of Allah . And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.

What is the narrator-made "fulfilment" of the prophecy in the Gospels, and a modified copy in the Quran.

So, there is no correction here but mythology in all three books.

aleCcowaN · 11th January 2018, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by abaddon

I am beginning to suspect that the OP does not comprehend that it is entirely possible to believe no deity at all.

You may be right. It seems Emre is like that Turkish man of the story, the one in the 19th century who was a devout Muslim and was mystified when he was shown the picture of a horse. He wouldn't understand what it was as he had never seen a 2-D representation of a living thing.

Emre_1974tr · 11th January 2018, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Scorpion

The sun does not move to a destination, it orbits

Hadith Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421:
Narrated Abu Dhar:
.

You missionaries can not do anything but refuge in translation mistakes

The true translation is:

38- And the Sun moves on to its destination.
That is the ordinance of the Mighty, the Knower.
(36- Ya-Seen, 38)

Contrary to the assertion that the sun traced a vicious circle about the earth or that it was stationary, the 38th verse of the sura “Ya-Seen” stated correctly that it moved on to its destination. As in other subjects, in this one also the Quran is the source that gave a correct account of the sun’s motion.

And

Hadiths are rumors.

The only source of Islam is the Qur'an.

Having to take refuge in the religion of the hadith means that you accept the defeat.

All you can do is to take refuge in translation mistakes and non-Qur'anic sources.

You gave up quickly.

Emre_1974tr · 11th January 2018, 05:58 PM

There's no one else named Joshua.

He was Jesus.

Jesus is the nephew of Moses and he has come to earth much earlier than you think.

The Big Dog · 11th January 2018, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

There's no one else named Joshua.

He was Jesus.

Jesus is the nephew of Moses and he has come to earth much earlier than you think.

The Koran refers to the person we call Jesus as ʿĪsā ibn Maryam.

The suggestion that he was the Nephew of Moses in blasphemous in both Christianity and Islam.

Belgian thought · 11th January 2018, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

You missionaries can not do anything but refuge in translation mistakes

The true translation is:

38- And the Sun moves on to its destination.
That is the ordinance of the Mighty, the Knower.
(36- Ya-Seen, 38)

Contrary to the assertion that the sun traced a vicious circle about the earth or that it was stationary, the 38th verse of the sura “Ya-Seen” stated correctly that it moved on to its destination. As in other subjects, in this one also the Quran is the source that gave a correct account of the sun’s motion.

And

Hadiths are rumors.

The only source of Islam is the Qur'an.

Having to take refuge in the religion of the hadith means that you accept the defeat.

All you can do is to take refuge in translation mistakes and non-Qur'anic sources.

You gave up quickly.

You do go on, and on.

I wake and like to click on this forum and, you are always there.

Some opine you are a cloaked Christian warrior, I cannot with evidence respond to that.

But, I can say that your words waste electricity and thus are a continuation of the earth's ecological decline.

To save the planet, accept the fact that religion and the bollocks that follows put a massive load on the system, a load that the planet needs rid of.

aleCcowaN · 11th January 2018, 06:07 PM

How ouerile can you be, Emre?

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

Contrary to the assertion that the sun traced a vicious circle about the earth or that it was stationary, the 38th verse of the sura “Ya-Seen” stated correctly that it moved on to its destination.

For you to understand it easy

"its destination" means anything, so it means nothing. It's just politician parlance.

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

You gave up quickly.

Oh! A struggle for power with Emre!

Diddy-dee, 19!

Emre_1974tr · 11th January 2018, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

There's no one else named Joshua.

He was Jesus.

Jesus is the nephew of Moses and he has come to earth much earlier than you think.

İsa= Jesus, Yeshua, Joshua, and Isaiah

aleCcowaN · 11th January 2018, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

İsa= Jesus, Yeshua, Joshua, and Isaiah

Don't worry, we know you have a hell of a confusion!

Craig B · 11th January 2018, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

There's no one else named Joshua.

He was Jesus.

Jesus is the nephew of Moses and he has come to earth much earlier than you think.

That is ignorant nonsense.

Many people shared the name. Christ's given name, commonly Romanized as Yeshua, was quite common in first-century Galilee. (Jesus comes from the transliteration of Yeshua into Greek and then English.) Archaeologists have unearthed the tombs of 71 Yeshuas from the period of Jesus' death. The name also appears 30 times in the Old Testament in reference to four separate characters—including a descendent of Aaron who helped to distribute offerings of grain (2 Chronicles 31:15) and a man who accompanied former captives of Nebuchadnezzar back to Jerusalem (Ezra 2:2).

About fifteen people bearing that name are mentioned by the Jewish historian Josephus, in his various surviving works.

ETA In Josephus' Antiquities, of the twenty-eight high priests who held office from the reign of Herod the Great to the fall of the Temple, no fewer than four bore the name Jesus: Jesus ben Phiabi, Jesus ben Sec, Jesus ben Damneus and Jesus ben Gamaliel.

aleCcowaN · 11th January 2018, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

There's no one else named Joshua.

He was Jesus.

Jesus is the nephew of Moses and he has come to earth much earlier than you think.

The Koran refers to the person we call Jesus as ʿĪsā ibn Maryam.

The suggestion that he was the Nephew of Moses in blasphemous in both Christianity and Islam.

So, it means nothing. Two soap operas have similar arguments and a lot of mistakes. The important fact is they are cheesy and irrelevant to life in the modern world.

The Big Dog · 11th January 2018, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

So, it means nothing. Two soap operas have similar arguments and a lot of mistakes. The important fact is they are cheesy and irrelevant to life in the modern world.

wait... you think that Christianity and Islam are "irrelevant" to life in the modern world?

'k.

lolz!!

Craig4 · 11th January 2018, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

wait... you think that Christianity and Islam are "irrelevant" to life in the modern world?

'k.

lolz!!

Certainly the existence of both religions has an unfortunate degree of relevance in our modern world. One would think humanity would have grown out of such things by now. The theological differences are meaningless though. It would be as of much value to argue over the color of fairy dust as to contend over the two narratives.

The Big Dog · 11th January 2018, 07:53 PM

Ok, Christianity and Islam not irrelevant, but their differences “meaningless.”

Oh mercy

I hope the op is realizing that we don’t have Christian missionaries, but plenty of atheist missionaries.

MikeG · 11th January 2018, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

wait... you think that Christianity and Islam are "irrelevant" to life in the modern world?........

They certainly should be. The gibberings of superstitious bronze age Arab goat herders should have no part in the lives of anyone in the 21st century other than quaint historical interest.

aleCcowaN · 12th January 2018, 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by Craig4

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

wait... you think that Christianity and Islam are "irrelevant" to life in the modern world?

'k.

lolz!!

Certainly the existence of both religions has an unfortunate degree of relevance in our modern world. One would think humanity would have grown out of such things by now. The theological differences are meaningless though. It would be as of much value to argue over the color of fairy dust as to contend over the two narratives.

Islam and Christianity are irrelevant to the modern world in the sense they don't provide to the "modern" part of it. Or is anyone to state that those religions have contributed to the progress in science, health, culture and the material world?

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

Ok, Christianity and Islam not irrelevant, but their differences “meaningless.”

Oh mercy

I hope the op is realizing that we don’t have Christian missionaries, but plenty of atheist missionaries.

To be an atheist missionary one should be first and atheist.

You and Emre have to thank that you are not dealt with like Emre is in this very thread at Godlike Productions.

Belz... · 12th January 2018, 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

İsa= Jesus, Yeshua, Joshua, and Isaiah

You forgot Yul Brynner.

abaddon · 12th January 2018, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

atheist missionaries.

Yeah, those are mythical entities along the lines of fairies, leprechauns, unicorns and gods.

Belz... · 12th January 2018, 06:07 AM

Atheist missionaries. How about those buddhist imams, agnostic messiahs and creationist scientists?

Scorpion · 12th January 2018, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

You missionaries can not do anything but refuge in translation mistakes

The true translation is:

38- And the Sun moves on to its destination.
That is the ordinance of the Mighty, the Knower.
(36- Ya-Seen, 38)

Contrary to the assertion that the sun traced a vicious circle about the earth or that it was stationary, the 38th verse of the sura “Ya-Seen” stated correctly that it moved on to its destination. As in other subjects, in this one also the Quran is the source that gave a correct account of the sun’s motion.

Trash ! utter trash. It should be obvious to a brain dead mule that the Quran is saying the sun orbits the earth.

You probably know this and you are as big a liar as the Imams that make false claims that the Quran says the sun orbits the galaxy.

The Big Dog · 12th January 2018, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by MikeG

They certainly should be. The gibberings of superstitious bronze age Arab goat herders should have no part in the lives of anyone in the 21st century other than quaint historical interest.

"Should." "should."

While I am certain that the more evangelical atheists "wish" that were so, Islam and Christianity clearly and indisputably are integral to modern civilization.

Jesus lived under the Roman Empire Mohamed was an international trader, neither was a goat herder nor during the "bronze age." I get it is easier to issue insults than address the facts, I guess.

aleCcowaN · 12th January 2018, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

Islam and Christianity clearly and indisputably are integral to modern civilization.

Like the monsters of id are to human psyche and the colon is to human body.

Clearly and indisputably (to add the embellishments you're so fond of)

The Big Dog · 12th January 2018, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

Like the monsters of id are to human psyche and the colon is to human body.

Clearly and indisputably (to add the embellishments you're so fond of)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbidden_Planet

solid analysis...

MikeG · 12th January 2018, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

"Should." "should."

While I am certain that the more evangelical atheists "wish" that were so, Islam and Christianity clearly and indisputably are integral to modern civilization.........

I know very well that you understood what I wrote. They ARE important to modern civilisation. They shouldn't be.

The Big Dog · 12th January 2018, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by MikeG

I know very well that you understood what I wrote. They ARE important to modern civilisation. They shouldn't be.

Indeed I absolutely 100% knew that you were agreeing with me. I was also acknowledging your belief that they 'should' not be.

"If wishes were fishes we'd all swim in riches"

CORed · 12th January 2018, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by abaddon

What a load. It seems allah is just as inept and useless as the judeo-christian god thing.

Not surprising, since Mohammed plagiarized heavily from Judaism and Christianity.

MikeG · 12th January 2018, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

Indeed I absolutely 100% knew that you were agreeing with me. I was also acknowledging your belief that they 'should' not be.......

Perhaps as we are in such perfect harmony now you'll also acknowledge that A/ religion is much more important in some parts of the world than in others ( USA compared with Europe, for example), and B/ you want christianity to be more important than it currently is.

It goes without saying that I want all religions to have no importance whatever, but don't much mind the remnant level of importance they have here in western Europe.

Emre_1974tr · 12th January 2018, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Scorpion

You probably know this and you are as big a liar as the Imams that make false claims that the Quran says the sun orbits the galaxy.

Quran says the Sun orbists the galaxy.

We're telling the truth.

You are liars.

Many of you already do this just for money.

You have to lie. Or you can't get your wages.

Even if most of you leave Christianity, they have to hide it.

Lies and infidelity are your profession.

This is your job.

aleCcowaN · 12th January 2018, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbidden_Planet

solid analysis...

See. I reminded you of your teen age.

The Big Dog · 12th January 2018, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

Quran says the Sun orbists the galaxy.

We're telling the truth.

You are liars.

Many of you already do this just for money.

You have to lie. Or you can't get your wages.

Even if most of you leave Christianity, they have to hide it.

Lies and infidelity are your profession.

This is your job.

Well, that seems like a fairly clear claim and the support for it must be unbelievably easy to locate:

Your claim: Quran says the Sun orbists (sic) the galaxy.

Please site the Chapter and Verse upon which you are relying

Jack by the hedge · 12th January 2018, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

...
Many of you already do this just for money.
...

People get paid for not believing in religious texts? Cool. Who pays them?

11th January 2018, 05:45 AM	#122
aleCcowaN imperfecto del subjuntivo Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: stranded at Buenos Aires, a city that, like NYC or Paris, has so little to offer... Posts: 9,521	Emre is a Pagan here, as he believes in a god too many. Which franchise? That's a minor detail. Besides the fact 19 is a stupid number.
	__________________ Horrible dipsomaniacs and other addicts, be gone and get treated.These fora are full of scientists and specialists. Most of them turn back to pumpkins the second they log out. If the horse reasons the Kentucky Derby is over

11th January 2018, 07:18 AM	#123
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr Examples: Quran 7:40 Those who have denied Our signs, and reacted to them with arrogance, the gates of the sky will not open for them, nor will they enter paradise until the camel passes through the eye of a needle. It is such that We recompense the criminals. 2- Not rich people, the disbelievers/bad peoples will go to hell. Couple of things, first of all the fact that Mohammad "borrowed" our Lord and Savior's metaphor about camel passing through the eye of a needle does not make the Holy Bible "false." Second Mohammed had no hesitation in blatantly "borrowing" from Christ, now did he?
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742

11th January 2018, 07:24 AM	#124
baron Guest Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,627	Originally Posted by The Big Dog Couple of things, first of all the fact that Mohammad "borrowed" our Lord and Savior's metaphor about camel passing through the eye of a needle does not make the Holy Bible "false." More likely a rope than a camel.
baron Guest Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,627

11th January 2018, 07:44 AM	#125
aleCcowaN imperfecto del subjuntivo Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: stranded at Buenos Aires, a city that, like NYC or Paris, has so little to offer... Posts: 9,521	Originally Posted by The Big Dog ... our Lord and Savior's metaphor ... valid for a value of we locally tending to just one person (and probably a handful among all the people who has read or will ever read from this thread)
	__________________ Horrible dipsomaniacs and other addicts, be gone and get treated.These fora are full of scientists and specialists. Most of them turn back to pumpkins the second they log out. If the horse reasons the Kentucky Derby is over

11th January 2018, 08:10 AM	#126
Myriad The Clarity Is Devastating Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Betwixt Posts: 20,582	Originally Posted by aleCcowaN ... valid for a value of we locally tending to just one person (and probably a handful among all the people who has read or will ever read from this thread) Shush, you'll give Secret ~~Agent~~ Christian Missionary TBD's game away! He's already having enough trouble with the "pretending not to be Christian" part, without you prodding him on it!
	__________________ "*Except Myriad. Even Cthulhu would give him a pat on the head and an ice cream and send him to the movies while he ended the rest of the world." - Foster Zygote

11th January 2018, 04:58 AM	#121
Porpoise of Life Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 4,950	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr I didn't say everyone here was a missionary. I see there's only a few people. They already put a few sentries on every forum. If you look carefully, it's easy to know. They act as if they have a belief other than Christianity. But when the time comes, they make moves in favour of Christianity. Well, for what it's worth... As far as I'm concerned you, the Christians, and the Jews, all the 'peoples of the books' are wrong. There's no YHWH/God the Father/Allah. And all three holy books are full of inaccuracies, inconsistencies, lies, myths and propaganda, which shows they were written by the people of their time, and not (inspired) by an omiscient creator.

11th January 2018, 08:11 AM	#127
Craig B Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 22,841	Originally Posted by Craig4 Or MoMo just made it all up because he was high and/or crazy. Not necessarily. He simply shared the general ignorance of his time, and thought the sun moves across the sky to a destination ordained by God. He didn't know that the Sun's apparent motion is the effect of the daily and annual rotation of the Earth. Muhammad had some primitive ideas about the motion of the Sun. Here's Quran 18:83 They will ask thee of Dhu'l-Qarneyn. Say: I shall recite unto you a remembrance of him. Lo! We made him strong in the land and gave him unto every thing a road. And he followed a road Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring. Modern Muslim commentators strive mightily to reinterpret this passage as a metaphor of some kind, or that it was seen setting over the Sea, or something like that. But I think the passage was intended literally by a person without any knowledge of the true structure of the solar system.

11th January 2018, 08:16 AM	#128
Scorpion Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 3,408	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr Not imams, we are researchers and thinkers saying that the sun is going to a decision spot in galaxy. The Qur'an says it clearly. 38- And the Sun moves on to its destination. That is the ordinance of the Mighty, the Knower. (36- Ya-Seen, 38) http://www.quranmiracles.com/2011/03...o-moves-along/ If you read the book in integrity, it's not just the galaxies, it's about our adventure journey in the universes. We're telling the truth. But you Christian missionaries are lying. The sun does not move to a destination, it orbits the galaxy. But Muhammad did not know this and he thought it orbits the earth. If you accepted the following hadith you would see that there is no doubt of this. The quran says the sun orbits the earth, therefore it is not from God. when the quran says, at sura 21.33 and 36.40 and 36.38 that the sun has an orbit, Imams falsely claim this is a great revelation, because Muhammad knew the sun had an orbit in the galaxy. But the quran is actually saying the sun orbits the flat earth and is reset every dawn , and I can prove it with the following hadith. Hadith Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421: Narrated Abu Dhar: The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing." (36.38) As can be seen it says that if the sun changed direction it would rise in the west. But if the sun changed direction in its orbit in the galaxy it would make no difference to the sun rising in the east, because it is the rotation of the earth that causes the appearance of the sun in the east. The hadith is clearly saying the sun orbits the earth, and it is a fuller explanation of verse 36.38 in the quran.
Scorpion Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 3,408	__________________ You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God. Sri Ramakrishna Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six. Leo Tolstoy

11th January 2018, 09:07 AM	#129
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742	Originally Posted by Myriad Shush, you'll give Secret ~~Agent~~ Christian Missionary TBD's game away! He's already having enough trouble with the "pretending not to be Christian" part, without you prodding him on it! doing what now?
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11th January 2018, 12:16 PM	#130
aleCcowaN imperfecto del subjuntivo Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: stranded at Buenos Aires, a city that, like NYC or Paris, has so little to offer... Posts: 9,521	Let's honour the thread's title and compare this piece of mythological stuff, based on a prophecy: prophecy (nothing too bad with it, as it is just babbling about the future) made by "Isaiah" about 700 BC: Quote: ^{Isaiah 7:13} And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? ¹⁴Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. ¹⁵ Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. ¹⁶ For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings. The annunciation according to Matthew (about 90 CE) Quote: [1:18] Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. [19] Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. [20] But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. [21] And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. [22] Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, [23] Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. But Luke (circa 100 CE) or his revisionists (second century CE) had more to tell: Quote: 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. 28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. 36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. 37 For with God nothing shall be impossible. Which is exactly what the Quran (640-650 CE, years after Muhammad's death) takes Quote: 3.47 She said, "My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?" [The angel] said, "Such is Allah ; He creates what He wills. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is. 3.48 And He will teach him writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel 3.49 And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah . And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of Allah . And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers. What is the narrator-made "fulfilment" of the prophecy in the Gospels, and a modified copy in the Quran. So, there is no correction here but mythology in all three books.
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11th January 2018, 03:05 PM	#131
aleCcowaN imperfecto del subjuntivo Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: stranded at Buenos Aires, a city that, like NYC or Paris, has so little to offer... Posts: 9,521	Originally Posted by abaddon I am beginning to suspect that the OP does not comprehend that it is entirely possible to believe no deity at all. You may be right. It seems Emre is like that Turkish man of the story, the one in the 19th century who was a devout Muslim and was mystified when he was shown the picture of a horse. He wouldn't understand what it was as he had never seen a 2-D representation of a living thing.
	__________________ Horrible dipsomaniacs and other addicts, be gone and get treated.These fora are full of scientists and specialists. Most of them turn back to pumpkins the second they log out. If the horse reasons the Kentucky Derby is over

11th January 2018, 05:44 PM	#132
Emre_1974tr Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Turkey Posts: 1,207	Originally Posted by Scorpion The sun does not move to a destination, it orbits Hadith Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421: Narrated Abu Dhar: . You missionaries can not do anything but refuge in translation mistakes The true translation is: 38- And the Sun moves on to its destination. That is the ordinance of the Mighty, the Knower. (36- Ya-Seen, 38) Contrary to the assertion that the sun traced a vicious circle about the earth or that it was stationary, the 38th verse of the sura “Ya-Seen” stated correctly that it moved on to its destination. As in other subjects, in this one also the Quran is the source that gave a correct account of the sun’s motion. And Hadiths are rumors. The only source of Islam is the Qur'an. Having to take refuge in the religion of the hadith means that you accept the defeat. All you can do is to take refuge in translation mistakes and non-Qur'anic sources. You gave up quickly.

11th January 2018, 05:58 PM	#133
Emre_1974tr Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Turkey Posts: 1,207	There's no one else named Joshua. He was Jesus. Jesus is the nephew of Moses and he has come to earth much earlier than you think.

11th January 2018, 06:04 PM	#134
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr There's no one else named Joshua. He was Jesus. Jesus is the nephew of Moses and he has come to earth much earlier than you think. The Koran refers to the person we call Jesus as ʿĪsā ibn Maryam. The suggestion that he was the Nephew of Moses in blasphemous in both Christianity and Islam.
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11th January 2018, 06:06 PM	#135
Belgian thought Master Poster Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,317	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr You missionaries can not do anything but refuge in translation mistakes The true translation is: 38- And the Sun moves on to its destination. That is the ordinance of the Mighty, the Knower. (36- Ya-Seen, 38) Contrary to the assertion that the sun traced a vicious circle about the earth or that it was stationary, the 38th verse of the sura “Ya-Seen” stated correctly that it moved on to its destination. As in other subjects, in this one also the Quran is the source that gave a correct account of the sun’s motion. And Hadiths are rumors. The only source of Islam is the Qur'an. Having to take refuge in the religion of the hadith means that you accept the defeat. All you can do is to take refuge in translation mistakes and non-Qur'anic sources. You gave up quickly. You do go on, and on. I wake and like to click on this forum and, you are always there. Some opine you are a cloaked Christian warrior, I cannot with evidence respond to that. But, I can say that your words waste electricity and thus are a continuation of the earth's ecological decline. To save the planet, accept the fact that religion and the bollocks that follows put a massive load on the system, a load that the planet needs rid of.
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11th January 2018, 06:07 PM	#136
aleCcowaN imperfecto del subjuntivo Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: stranded at Buenos Aires, a city that, like NYC or Paris, has so little to offer... Posts: 9,521	How ouerile can you be, Emre? Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr Contrary to the assertion that the sun traced a vicious circle about the earth or that it was stationary, the 38th verse of the sura “Ya-Seen” stated correctly that it moved on to its destination. For you to understand it easy "its destination" means anything, so it means nothing. It's just politician parlance. Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr You gave up quickly. Oh! A struggle for power with Emre! Diddy-dee, 19!
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11th January 2018, 06:10 PM	#137
Emre_1974tr Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Turkey Posts: 1,207	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr There's no one else named Joshua. He was Jesus. Jesus is the nephew of Moses and he has come to earth much earlier than you think. İsa= Jesus, Yeshua, Joshua, and Isaiah

11th January 2018, 06:12 PM	#138
aleCcowaN imperfecto del subjuntivo Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: stranded at Buenos Aires, a city that, like NYC or Paris, has so little to offer... Posts: 9,521	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr İsa= Jesus, Yeshua, Joshua, and Isaiah Don't worry, we know you have a hell of a confusion!
	__________________ Horrible dipsomaniacs and other addicts, be gone and get treated.These fora are full of scientists and specialists. Most of them turn back to pumpkins the second they log out. If the horse reasons the Kentucky Derby is over

11th January 2018, 06:13 PM	#139
Craig B Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 22,841	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr There's no one else named Joshua. He was Jesus. Jesus is the nephew of Moses and he has come to earth much earlier than you think. That is ignorant nonsense. Many people shared the name. Christ's given name, commonly Romanized as Yeshua, was quite common in first-century Galilee. (Jesus comes from the transliteration of Yeshua into Greek and then English.) Archaeologists have unearthed the tombs of 71 Yeshuas from the period of Jesus' death. The name also appears 30 times in the Old Testament in reference to four separate characters—including a descendent of Aaron who helped to distribute offerings of grain (2 Chronicles 31:15) and a man who accompanied former captives of Nebuchadnezzar back to Jerusalem (Ezra 2:2). About fifteen people bearing that name are mentioned by the Jewish historian Josephus, in his various surviving works. ETA In Josephus' Antiquities, of the twenty-eight high priests who held office from the reign of Herod the Great to the fall of the Temple, no fewer than four bore the name Jesus: Jesus ben Phiabi, Jesus ben Sec, Jesus ben Damneus and Jesus ben Gamaliel.
	Last edited by Craig B; 11th January 2018 at 06:17 PM. Reason: ETA

11th January 2018, 06:15 PM	#140
aleCcowaN imperfecto del subjuntivo Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: stranded at Buenos Aires, a city that, like NYC or Paris, has so little to offer... Posts: 9,521	Originally Posted by The Big Dog Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr There's no one else named Joshua. He was Jesus. Jesus is the nephew of Moses and he has come to earth much earlier than you think. The Koran refers to the person we call Jesus as ʿĪsā ibn Maryam. The suggestion that he was the Nephew of Moses in blasphemous in both Christianity and Islam. So, it means nothing. Two soap operas have similar arguments and a lot of mistakes. The important fact is they are cheesy and irrelevant to life in the modern world.
	__________________ Horrible dipsomaniacs and other addicts, be gone and get treated.These fora are full of scientists and specialists. Most of them turn back to pumpkins the second they log out. If the horse reasons the Kentucky Derby is over

11th January 2018, 06:50 PM	#141
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742	Originally Posted by aleCcowaN So, it means nothing. Two soap operas have similar arguments and a lot of mistakes. The important fact is they are cheesy and irrelevant to life in the modern world. wait... you think that Christianity and Islam are "irrelevant" to life in the modern world? 'k. lolz!!
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11th January 2018, 07:36 PM	#142
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 27,439	Originally Posted by The Big Dog wait... you think that Christianity and Islam are "irrelevant" to life in the modern world? 'k. lolz!! Certainly the existence of both religions has an unfortunate degree of relevance in our modern world. One would think humanity would have grown out of such things by now. The theological differences are meaningless though. It would be as of much value to argue over the color of fairy dust as to contend over the two narratives.

11th January 2018, 07:53 PM	#143
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742	Ok, Christianity and Islam not irrelevant, but their differences “meaningless.” Oh mercy I hope the op is realizing that we don’t have Christian missionaries, but plenty of atheist missionaries.
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742

11th January 2018, 11:50 PM	#144
MikeG Now. Do it now. Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: UK Posts: 24,804	Originally Posted by The Big Dog wait... you think that Christianity and Islam are "irrelevant" to life in the modern world?........ They certainly should be. The gibberings of superstitious bronze age Arab goat herders should have no part in the lives of anyone in the 21st century other than quaint historical interest.
	__________________ "The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.

12th January 2018, 04:18 AM	#145
aleCcowaN imperfecto del subjuntivo Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: stranded at Buenos Aires, a city that, like NYC or Paris, has so little to offer... Posts: 9,521	Originally Posted by Craig4 Originally Posted by The Big Dog wait... you think that Christianity and Islam are "irrelevant" to life in the modern world? 'k. lolz!! Certainly the existence of both religions has an unfortunate degree of relevance in our modern world. One would think humanity would have grown out of such things by now. The theological differences are meaningless though. It would be as of much value to argue over the color of fairy dust as to contend over the two narratives. Islam and Christianity are irrelevant to the modern world in the sense they don't provide to the "modern" part of it. Or is anyone to state that those religions have contributed to the progress in science, health, culture and the material world? Originally Posted by The Big Dog Ok, Christianity and Islam not irrelevant, but their differences “meaningless.” Oh mercy I hope the op is realizing that we don’t have Christian missionaries, but plenty of atheist missionaries. To be an atheist missionary one should be first and atheist. You and Emre have to thank that you are not dealt with like Emre is in this very thread at Godlike Productions.
	__________________ Horrible dipsomaniacs and other addicts, be gone and get treated.These fora are full of scientists and specialists. Most of them turn back to pumpkins the second they log out. If the horse reasons the Kentucky Derby is over

12th January 2018, 05:33 AM	#146
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 96,875	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr İsa= Jesus, Yeshua, Joshua, and Isaiah You forgot Yul Brynner.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

12th January 2018, 05:49 AM	#147
abaddon Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Republic of Ireland Posts: 23,499	Originally Posted by The Big Dog atheist missionaries. Yeah, those are mythical entities along the lines of fairies, leprechauns, unicorns and gods.
	__________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes...

12th January 2018, 06:07 AM	#148
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 96,875	Atheist missionaries. How about those buddhist imams, agnostic messiahs and creationist scientists?
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

12th January 2018, 07:15 AM	#149
Scorpion Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 3,408	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr You missionaries can not do anything but refuge in translation mistakes The true translation is: 38- And the Sun moves on to its destination. That is the ordinance of the Mighty, the Knower. (36- Ya-Seen, 38) Contrary to the assertion that the sun traced a vicious circle about the earth or that it was stationary, the 38th verse of the sura “Ya-Seen” stated correctly that it moved on to its destination. As in other subjects, in this one also the Quran is the source that gave a correct account of the sun’s motion. Trash ! utter trash. It should be obvious to a brain dead mule that the Quran is saying the sun orbits the earth. You probably know this and you are as big a liar as the Imams that make false claims that the Quran says the sun orbits the galaxy.
Scorpion Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 3,408	__________________ You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God. Sri Ramakrishna Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six. Leo Tolstoy

12th January 2018, 07:19 AM	#150
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742	Originally Posted by MikeG They certainly should be. The gibberings of superstitious bronze age Arab goat herders should have no part in the lives of anyone in the 21st century other than quaint historical interest. "Should." "should." While I am certain that the more evangelical atheists "wish" that were so, Islam and Christianity clearly and indisputably are integral to modern civilization. Jesus lived under the Roman Empire Mohamed was an international trader, neither was a goat herder nor during the "bronze age." I get it is easier to issue insults than address the facts, I guess.
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12th January 2018, 07:53 AM	#151
aleCcowaN imperfecto del subjuntivo Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: stranded at Buenos Aires, a city that, like NYC or Paris, has so little to offer... Posts: 9,521	Originally Posted by The Big Dog Islam and Christianity clearly and indisputably are integral to modern civilization. Like the monsters of id are to human psyche and the colon is to human body. Clearly and indisputably (to add the embellishments you're so fond of)
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12th January 2018, 08:41 AM	#152
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742	Originally Posted by aleCcowaN Like the monsters of id are to human psyche and the colon is to human body. Clearly and indisputably (to add the embellishments you're so fond of) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbidden_Planet solid analysis...
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12th January 2018, 08:52 AM	#153
MikeG Now. Do it now. Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: UK Posts: 24,804	Originally Posted by The Big Dog "Should." "should." While I am certain that the more evangelical atheists "wish" that were so, Islam and Christianity clearly and indisputably are integral to modern civilization......... I know very well that you understood what I wrote. They ARE important to modern civilisation. They shouldn't be.
	__________________ "The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.

12th January 2018, 08:57 AM	#154
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742	Originally Posted by MikeG I know very well that you understood what I wrote. They ARE important to modern civilisation. They shouldn't be. Indeed I absolutely 100% knew that you were agreeing with me. I was also acknowledging your belief that they 'should' not be. "If wishes were fishes we'd all swim in riches"
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12th January 2018, 09:13 AM	#155
CORed Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Central City, Colorado, USA Posts: 10,587	Originally Posted by abaddon What a load. It seems allah is just as inept and useless as the judeo-christian god thing. Not surprising, since Mohammed plagiarized heavily from Judaism and Christianity.