Merged: The Qur'an corrects the mistakes of the false Injil/Torah

[baron]

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

Seeing zero links to support this claim:

"To be fair they are **** holes now, but back then they were actually quite progressive and learned. Islam put a stop to all that"

we are absolutely done with that (although the Trumpesque racism of "they are **** holes now" was clearly a glaring tip off that everything in that post was a *********** train wreck from the get go)

So I conclude the answer to my question is, "No, I have nothing more to add."

Therefore I'll just let your previous response speak for itself. You refute my assertion that the Islamic world essentially came to a technological halt 750 years by citing a Muslim scientist who, with two other non-Muslim scientists, won a prize in 2015.

It's been great debating with you, and I know where you are if I find myself seeking further dialectic challenge.

[Hungry81]

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

Seeing zero links to support this claim:

"To be fair they are **** holes now, but back then they were actually quite progressive and learned. Islam put a stop to all that"

we are absolutely done with that (although the Trumpesque racism of "they are **** holes now" was clearly a glaring tip off that everything in that post was a *********** train wreck from the get go)

Wow Trump fan fight opcorn

[The Big Dog]

Originally Posted by baron

snip

seeing zero links to support utterly false claim, again....

(laughed when I saw the declaration of victory tho)

[Craig B]

Originally Posted by baron

Well, we're left with my question: What are these important Islamic inventions of the past 750 years that I should be aware of?

As for my original statement, it's perfectly correct. Islam put a stop on technological progress. Now you assumed I meant Islam put a stop on technological progress from day one, but I didn't say that and hence I didn't mean it.

So, back to the question: What are these important Islamic inventions of the past 750 years that I should be aware of?

I presume that you are already aware that when the expression "X put a stop to y" is used, it means it happened at once, unless otherwise stated. If you don't say it you do mean it. If you don't mean that, you have to specify what you do mean.

[baron]

Originally Posted by Craig B

I presume that you are already aware that when the expression "X put a stop to y" is used, it means it happened at once, unless otherwise stated. If you don't say it you do mean it. If you don't mean that, you have to specify what you do mean.

I wasn't aware of that, no. Just for the educational value, can you link to your evidence?

And yes, I went on to specifically define what I meant, quoting the last 750 years as what I think is a rather generous timescale for a single important invention.

[Emre_1974tr]

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

That's a good point, but it's an even weaker argument than that.

The "days" mentioned were not, of course, the ages of the universe and the earth but rather the claimed time taken to create them. So even if it had taken 6 days to create the universe and then 2 days to make the earth, the universe would be 8 days old when the earth was completed, making the universe 4 times as old as the earth.

No. On the fourth day the Earth's adventure begins and the universe continues.

The age of the Universe is three times the Earth's age, When the Quran landed.

Quran 50:38. We assuredly created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them in six days, and nothing of fatigue touched us.

Quran 41.9 Say, "Do you indeed disbelieve in He who created the earth in two days and attribute to Him equals? That is the Lord of the worlds."

[The Big Dog]

Originally Posted by baron

snip

zero links

[baron]

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

zero links

rare that you see someone move the goalposts so unbelievably far from their claim, which we all remember was:

"To be fair they are **** holes now, but back then they were actually quite progressive and learned. Islam put a stop to all that."

Are you repeatedly posting the same thing as you collate your list of great Islamic inventions of the last 750 years? Although I can't imagine why you're taking so long I am looking forward to reading it.

[The Big Dog]

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

No. On the fourth day the Earth's adventure begins and the universe continues.

The age of the Universe is three times the Earth's age, When the Quran landed.

Quran 50:38. We assuredly created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them in six days, and nothing of fatigue touched us.

Quran 41.9 Say, "Do you indeed disbelieve in He who created the earth in two days and attribute to Him equals? That is the Lord of the worlds."

Where does the Koran say Allah began to create the earth on the fourth day??

[Craig B]

Originally Posted by baron

I wasn't aware of that, no. Just for the educational value, can you link to your evidence?

And yes, I went on to specifically define what I meant, quoting the last 750 years as what I think is a rather generous timescale for a single important invention.

Yes, you did retreat from your first statement, which was false. Then you produced a different statment, and if that is challenged you will produce another, and so on.

[Emre_1974tr]

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

Where does the Koran say Allah began to create the earth on the fourth day??

The 50:38 verse says it's six days since it was created with the world within the universe. The 41.9 verse gives the world its own creation time (two days).

6 - 2 = 4


Quran 50:38. We assuredly created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them in six days, and nothing of fatigue touched us.

Quran 41.9 Say, "Do you indeed disbelieve in He who created the earth in two days and attribute to Him equals? That is the Lord of the worlds."

[The Big Dog]

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

The 50:38 verse says it's six days since it was created with the world within the universe. The 41.9 verse gives the world its own creation time (two days).

6 - 2 = 4


Quran 50:38. We assuredly created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them in six days, and nothing of fatigue touched us.

Quran 41.9 Say, "Do you indeed disbelieve in He who created the earth in two days and attribute to Him equals? That is the Lord of the worlds."

You did not answer my question.

Now, assume that the two days began On the third day (1 +2 = 3) That would mean that the Earth is 2/3 as old as the universe and therefore should be 9.2 billion years old.

[Emre_1974tr]

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

You did not answer my question.

.

How does it feel to cancel your mind to deny it?

[The Big Dog]

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

How does it feel to cancel your mind to deny it?

Perhaps you failed to understand my detailed explanation that I typed out (and you deleted)

Let me explain this again. If the Universe took 6 days to create and the earth took two of those days, to determine the age of the Earth we will need to know when Allah began creating the Earth. See?

So if it was on the first day, then the Earth should be as old as the Universe and so on and so on.

So, we REALLY need to see in the Koran where it says on what day Allah began creating the Earth, because from where I stand it looks like it was the first day, then two for the mountains, then two for the heavens.

Maybe you want to check your math?

[RecoveringYuppy]

Originally Posted by Crossbow

If that is the case,

Then 4.4 billion years ago the Earth was 0.1 billion years old and the universe was 9.1 billion years old.

Therefore, at that time the universe was 91 times older than the Earth.

As such, your ideas about god math are quite incorrect.

Can you explain what the heck you are thinking here? There were no humans on the Earth 4.4 billion years ago. And I don't see how citing this correct calculation contradicts Emre's correct calculation.

I'm really not getting the reaction to Emre having a single correct bit of simple arithmetic.

[The Big Dog]

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

Can you explain what the heck you are thinking here? There were no humans on the Earth 4.4 billion years ago. And I don't see how citing this correct calculation contradicts Emre's correct calculation.

I'm really not getting the reaction to Emre having a single correct bit of simple arithmetic.

Emre's calculation is wrong pursuant to the language of the Koran.

[Emre_1974tr]

Let's make it even simpler for those who are out of your mind.

The universe is six days old (now).


The world inside is two days old (now).


Which day did the world start to be created on the of the universe?


Four, of course.

[The Big Dog]

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

Let's make it even simpler for those who are out of your mind.

The universe is six days old (now).


The world inside is two days old (now).


Which day did the world start to be created on the of the universe?


Four, of course.

That aint how it works, and that aint what the koran says. Earth 2 mountains 2 the rest 2

Seems like a bit of a pickle for you.

[baron]

Originally Posted by Craig B

Yes, you did retreat from your first statement, which was false. Then you produced a different statment, and if that is challenged you will produce another, and so on.

So you can't link to your evidence. That's fine.

[MikeG]

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

Let's make it even simpler for those who are out of your mind.

The universe is six days old (now).


The world inside is two days old (now).


Which day did the world start to be created on the of the universe?


Four, of course.

Huh?

Day 5 and day 6 would be the two days, surely. If work started on day four, that would mean 3 days to build the world.

[Emre_1974tr]

Originally Posted by MikeG

Huh?

Day 5 and day 6 would be the two days, surely. If work started on day four, that would mean 3 days to build the world.

It's two days between the end of the fourth day and the end of the sixth day.

If you get the beginning of the fifth day, it ends at the beginning of the seventh day.

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

No. On the fourth day the Earth's adventure begins and the universe continues.

The age of the Universe is three times the Earth's age, When the Quran landed.

According to Quran and YOU it's twice the Earth's age (4th to 6th days), which is utterly wrong.

Unless your "days" or "periods" are uneven, what renders the Quran a text written with the imprecise language of carnival fortune tellers (don't worry, Bible does it exactly the same crappy way, not better nor worse).

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

The 50:38 verse says it's six days since it was created with the world within the universe. The 41.9 verse gives the world its own creation time (two days).

6 - 2 = 4


Quran 50:38. We assuredly created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them in six days, and nothing of fatigue touched us.

Quran 41.9 Say, "Do you indeed disbelieve in He who created the earth in two days and attribute to Him equals? That is the Lord of the worlds."

"... and nothing of fatigue touched us". I smile at the puerile efforts of the Quran in retelling the story in the Bible but making their god a powerful figure who wouldn't take a rest. The Quran is all about power and submission. Or better said, the Muhammad after Medina, edition approved by the third caliph, is all about power and submission.

That's why the true Muhammad before Medina is a Saint of Mankind, as much as the real Jesus.

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

If you get the beginning of the fifth day, it ends at the beginning of the seventh day.

Hence, it's a beginning that lasts 48 hours. When does it end? How long does the end last?

[Jack by the hedge]

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

Which day did the world start to be created on the of the universe?


Four, of course.

You just made that up.

[Jack by the hedge]

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

Quran 41.9 Say, "Do you indeed disbelieve in He who created the earth in two days and attribute to Him equals? That is the Lord of the worlds."

And I say yes, I disbelieve in He who created the earth etc. Also I "attribute to him equals" in the sense that all Gods are equally fictional.

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

Ok, Christianity and Islam not irrelevant, but their differences “meaningless.”

Oh mercy

I hope the op is realizing that we don’t have Christian missionaries, but plenty of atheist missionaries.

That both belief systems coalesce as organizations and are in turn, societal forces is not in dispute. However the content of your silly little holy books isn't important. You may as well argue over the color of fairy dust.

[MikeG]

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

It's two days between the end of the fourth day and the end of the sixth day.

If you get the beginning of the fifth day, it ends at the beginning of the seventh day.

Ah, changed your tune. No work on the 4th day then, so work started on the 5th. Just admit you are wrong, and we'll move on.

[GlennB]

Originally Posted by baron

Well, we're left with my question: What are these important Islamic inventions of the past 750 years that I should be aware of?

I'm not aware of Christianity or Judaism inventing anything, though plenty of Christians and Jews have, as have members of other religions and atheists, of course.

Meanwhile, if you're looking for a notable Muslim scientist of the last 750 years then they're so easy to find that I find it hard to take your question seriously. Muslims have won Nobel prizes in scientific fields, to give but one example.

[aleCcowaN]

Yes, you will find exactly as many Muslims as Argentines getting the Noble Prize in any of its scientific versions. In its Peace version Muslims win 7 to 2, surely because Muslims are pacifists, as Emre well exemplifies by avoiding talk about power and submission.

Regardless, there are abundant examples of leading scientist during the 16th century Ottoman Empire* and during the Mughal Empire*. Also, during the 20th and 21st centuries, in a context of copying western educational models and an increasing laicism.

*Fathullah Shirazi, Taqi ad-Din

[Emre_1974tr]

Originally Posted by MikeG

Ah, changed your tune. No work on the 4th day then, so work started on the 5th. Just admit you are wrong, and we'll move on.

No, I said both expressions are true.

If I said the second statement from the beginning, you would give the first one.

Because your purpose is to object.

[Emre_1974tr]

Look, the sincere ones are turning to the truth:

https://www.quranite.com/

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

No, I said both expressions are true.

If I said the second statement from the beginning, you would give the first one.

Because your purpose is to object.

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

Look, the sincere ones are turning to the truth:

https://www.quranite.com/

If you don't want to be objected, refrain from posting objectionable content, like that linky from Religious Missionaries! "that book has transformed my life!!!"

[baron]

Originally Posted by GlennB

I'm not aware of Christianity or Judaism inventing anything, though plenty of Christians and Jews have, as have members of other religions and atheists, of course.

You know very well what I mean. It's pretty obvious that an invention can't have a religion, I'm talking about contributions from the Islamic world (a term I've used many times). Of course, you know this so you're trying to twist my words to mean this...

Originally Posted by GlennB

Meanwhile, if you're looking for a notable Muslim scientist of the last 750 years then they're so easy to find that I find it hard to take your question seriously. Muslims have won Nobel prizes in scientific fields, to give but one example.

Yes, I can easily see how my question could be interpreted as 'find me a single Muslim scientist in the past 750 years'.

I find this hilarious. It is blatantly obvious that no matter how you spin it, the technological and medical contribution of Islamic countries is (and has been for centuries) vastly less than that of any other grouping, and Muslim scientists are massively under-represented in terms of numbers and achievements.

You only have to check out Wiki to see the desperation of those with arguments similar to your own. Looking at the list of Muslim scientists you see about 150 - 200 names, many of them many centuries dead.

Look at the pages for Jewish scientists (since you decided to bring up Jews) and you get well over 1000, most of them either still alive or last century.

Then realise that the Muslim population outnumbers the Jewish population by at least 110:1, meaning that Muslims scientists are under-represented by a factor of 600 as compared to Jews. And that's before you get onto the issue of achievements.

Three Muslims I believe have won a Nobel Prize in the sciences, as compared to...??? Jews... well, I'm afraid I don't have time to count them, maybe you can do that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...obel_laureates

[baron]

Although I must say there's some humour value to this research. Checking out the paltry list of Pakistani inventions, clearly compiled by somebody desperate to write something, we have

- Cockfighting. Clearly something to be proud of (and OK, it was invented 4000 years before Pakistan existed but you know, it was in roughly the same place to let's include it to bulk out the page)

- A fertilizer that can't be used to make bombs. Very useful, I concur, in Islamic countries.

- The first computer virus in history. Bravo!

You couldn't make this **** up (or maybe I should say, invent it)

[MikeG]

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

No, I said both expressions are true.

If I said the second statement from the beginning, you would give the first one.

Because your purpose is to object.

No, my purpose is not to object per se. My purpose is to resist anyone coming here to post religious propaganda, from any religion at all. People who preach at me annoy the hell out of me, and further, people who preach don't ever seem to join in meaningful conversations. If you came here, as a Muslem, with a view to having a discussion about Islam's place in the world, then we could talk. When you come here and spout bilge at me, endlessly, without engaging in any sort of dialgoue, then you are being nothing but a pain in the arse.

[The Big Dog]

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

No, I said both expressions are true.

If I said the second statement from the beginning, you would give the first one.

Because your purpose is to object.

Your assertions regarding the ordering of creation according to the Koran are, as I have already pointed out, false.

The Koran says Allah created the Earth first and therefore according to the Koran the Earth is as old as the Universe. According to Hadith 6707:

Quote:

Abu Haraira reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) took hold of my hands and said: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created the clay on Saturday and He created the mountains on Sunday and He created the trees on Monday and He created the things entailing labour on Tuesday and created light on Wednesday and lie caused the animals to spread on Thursday and created Adam (peace be upon him) after 'Asr on Friday; the last creation at the last hour of the hours of Friday, i.e. between afternoon and night.

[Emre_1974tr]

1- Hadiths are mostly gossip and lies. The sources of the hadiths are often false Torah and false İnjils. They are out of religion.

The Qur'an is the only source of religion.

Real Islam is only in Quran

http://www.scienceforums.com/topic/9...only-in-quran/

2- According to the Qur'an, the universe and other universes are created first. The Earth is being created in the last two days.


Furthermore, the arrangement of existing universes is being done in the last two days.


The age of the universe is now three times our world. That's what the Koran says.

[The Big Dog]

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

1- Hadiths are mostly gossip and lies. The sources of the hadiths are often false Torah and false Bibles. They are out of religion.

The Qur'an is the only source of religion.

Real Islam is only in Quran

http://www.scienceforums.com/topic/9...only-in-quran/

2- According to the Qur'an, the universe and other universes are created first. The Earth is being created in the last two days.


Furthermore, the arrangement of existing universes is being done in the last two days.


The age of the universe is now three times our world. That's what the Koran says.

That is absolutely not what the Koran says, the Koran says that the earth was created first.

Quote the Koran where it says that the Earth was created last.

[Jack by the hedge]

What is it that you want to achieve here, Emre? It seems as though you wish to persuade people that your understanding of the Koran is the true one. But you have chosen a group of people who don't believe that any interpretation of the Koran is true. So what's the point?