[Continuation] Global warming discussion V - Page 10

Red Baron Farms · 13th January 2021, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Damned scaremongers.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...disruption-aoe

Ecosystem cascades are indeed scary things. Worldwide? Terrifying. We are still not even 100% sure we can halt or reverse the one we already triggered, assuming we tried.

I tend to think we can, but all the evidence is we certainly are not yet.

The Atheist · 14th January 2021, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms

We are still not even 100% sure we can halt or reverse the one we already triggered, assuming we tried.

That's an assumption I'd be prepared to bet against. We haven't done ****, and won't do until far too late.

lomiller · 18th January 2021, 11:14 AM

2020 ties for the warmest year on record. This is in spite of La Nina conditions in the second half of the year. The first 3 months of the year were a very weak El Nino, right on the edge of ENSO neutral. Not enough to explain the record temperatures and not enough to outweigh the La Nina conditions of the second half of the year.

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/2...analysis-shows

The Atheist · 25th January 2021, 03:50 PM

Interesting piece here from Pro Publica - not a scientific analysis, but a climate scientist and the barriers they face in the public arena: https://www.propublica.org/article/t...ens-if-you-try

The Atheist · 25th February 2021, 12:05 PM

Not good news for Western Europe and Pommyland:

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...say-scientists

Red Baron Farms · 25th February 2021, 04:03 PM

$100M xprize for GIGATON SCALE CARBON REMOVAL
Elon Musk announces new XPrize

I am already working on putting a team together to enter.

Trakar · 9th March 2021, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms

$100M xprize for GIGATON SCALE CARBON REMOVAL
Elon Musk announces new XPrize

I am already working on putting a team together to enter.

How's that working out for you so far?!

Red Baron Farms · 9th March 2021, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Trakar

How's that working out for you so far?!

pretty good so far. Got the plan and a few people willing to volunteer their land for soil samples. A guy willing to donate lawyer skills. etc....

The big issue is finding a commercial soil sample lab for the right SOC sample and testing protocol.

arthwollipot · 9th March 2021, 05:36 PM

The collapse of the coal industry has already begun.

Energy Australia to close Yallourn power station early and build 350 megawatt battery

Quote:

Energy Australia will close the Yallourn power station in Victoria's Latrobe Valley in mid-2028 four years ahead of schedule and build a giant power-generating battery instead.

The brown coal-fired plant has been operating for 47 years and produces about a fifth of the state's electricity.

Yallourn is Victoria's oldest power station and was scheduled to close in 2032.

It employs 450 permanent workers plus hundreds of contractors.

More at the link.

The Atheist · 25th March 2021, 12:37 PM

Dig out that coal, gas and oil, boys, climate change is history!

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/solar...b67593e055ff9d

Red Baron Farms · 25th March 2021, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Dig out that coal, gas and oil, boys, climate change is history!

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/solar...b67593e055ff9d

arthwollipot · 25th March 2021, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Dig out that coal, gas and oil, boys, climate change is history!

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/solar...b67593e055ff9d

My opinion is that by the time a viable solar geoengineering scheme is ready to be implemented, it will no longer be needed.

The Atheist · 26th March 2021, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

My opinion is that by the time a viable solar geoengineering scheme is ready to be implemented, it will no longer be needed.

I hope you're right, because trying something when you have no idea what the otucome might be is insane.

arthwollipot · 26th March 2021, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

I hope you're right, because trying something when you have no idea what the otucome might be is insane.

The length of time it would take to model and simulate and predict to a reasonable enough level of accuracy is why I reckon that by the time it's ready to implement we will have resolved the climate crisis by other means. But hey, research is research and if the National Academies want to throw money at this, they're perfectly entitled to.

Pixel42 · 26th March 2021, 05:48 AM

This is not good news:

One of Earth’s giant carbon sinks may have been overestimated - study

Quote:

The storage potential of one of the Earth’s biggest carbon sinks – soils – may have been overestimated, research shows. This could mean ecosystems on land soaking up less of humanity’s emissions than expected, and more rapid global heating.

Soils and the plants that grow in them absorb about a third of the carbon emissions that drive the climate crisis, partly limiting the impact of fossil-fuel burning. Rising carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere can increase plant growth and, until now, it was assumed carbon storage in soils would increase too.

But the study, based on over 100 experiments, found the opposite. When plant growth increases, soil carbon does not. The finding is significant because the amount of organic carbon stored in soils is about three times that in living plants and double that in the atmosphere. Soils can also store carbon for centuries, whereas plants and trees rot quickly after they die.

Red Baron Farms · 26th March 2021, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by Pixel42

This is not good news:

One of Earth’s giant carbon sinks may have been overestimated - study

It's not even news to people working on carbon sequestration in the soil.

But to understand why you must dig deeper. For example the forest soils did not store any more organic carbon at all. Something I have repeatedly stressed over and over. That is the wrong biome. Forests store more biomass, they are not the terrestrial biome that sequesters stable carbon. The study also showed that in grasslands, elevated CO2 led to +9% plant growth, but soil carbon rose by 8%.

People have repeatedly been trying to say forests are the biological feedback to increased CO2, but the evidence shows it is grasslands not forests. Grasslands that at least in the US are estimated at ~80% degraded. There is huge potential in restoring grassland biomes.

Red Baron Farms · 27th March 2021, 06:24 AM

Pixel42,
Just to add to the above. I wrote a much better answer on Quora why and how back in 2017, 3 1/2 years ago. Here is a link: How many trees do I need to plant to offset the carbon dioxide released by a person living 80 years in the west?
I think I will now upgrade that answer with the Nature Study. Thanks for the link! But don't worry. We got this!

Aridas · 30th March 2021, 11:05 PM

To poke at a link that's a little relevant...

API Wants You, The Consumer, To Pay The Price For Its Pollution

Short summation? American Petroleum Institute has signaled a willingness to come to the negotiating table on a carbon tax... provided a number of sabotage conditions are met. For example, removing other environmental and public health safeguards, getting the government to give them even more money to clean up their natural gas messes and sell that gas, for them to receive credit when their product is used in other products... like plastics, that consumers know how much the any carbon tax is theoretically costing them, clearly marked at gas pumps because it's the consumers that truly need taxed instead of API as the petroleum is pumped out of the ground, and the like.

**** them.

arthwollipot · 31st March 2021, 05:07 PM

They know they're on the ropes and they don't like it. Progress will be made despite them.

The Atheist · 31st March 2021, 07:28 PM

How Aussie will look if 3 degrees of warming happen: https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/...c-this-century

wobs · 1st May 2021, 08:24 AM

Net zero trap. A fairly long but good summation why we still haven't got co2 down.
https://theconversation.com/climate-...us-trap-157368

Aridas · 9th May 2021, 11:44 AM

Hmm...

Because this Daily Kos community article seems up Red Baron Farms' alley, though likely not telling him anything especially new, I feel like linking to it so he can take a look if he wants and judge it for himself. Really short summation, Biden apparently mentioned "cover crops" and this person decided to try to give a short run down of what they are, how beneficial they are, how valuable soil can be for handling climate change, and some government actions related to that.

Red Baron Farms · 9th May 2021, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Aridas

Hmm...

Because this Daily Kos community article seems up Red Baron Farms' alley, though likely not telling him anything especially new, I feel like linking to it so he can take a look if he wants and judge it for himself. Really short summation, Biden apparently mentioned "cover crops" and this person decided to try to give a short run down of what they are, how beneficial they are, how valuable soil can be for handling climate change, and some government actions related to that.

Thanks and you are correct. It's a pretty basic primer. However, if it helps people understand, all good.

Personally I prefer actually stating what is happening with more scientific terminology. Even if it is new knowledge, it seems people learn it faster when they can use the proper terms like Arbuscular Mycorrhizal Fungi, and Saprophytic Fungi, symbiosis etc.... instead of generic and vague "beneficial microorganisms".

When the article author says things like this, it seems to me to be talking down to the reader, and purposely making it too vague to have any possibility to understand. Just my opinion though. The article is basically correct. It's just not very useful in my opinion. Maybe the author could have explained it better if they had more space available?

Mr Clingford · 29th June 2021, 11:37 PM

It's got a bit madly hot in Canada, setting new records by a hell of a margin.

TurkeysGhost · 30th June 2021, 04:49 AM

LA County doesn't have enough prison slaves, because of the pandemic, in order to fight wildfires. Beyond parody.

Quote:

He said L.A. County would normally have 24 inmate firefighting crews but is down to eight, as many were sent home from prison after the state granted them early release because of the pandemic. That has forced the department to dip into its budget to train more paid crew members, he said.

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...ecedented-pace

Red Baron Farms · 30th June 2021, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by Mr Clingford

It's got a bit madly hot in Canada, setting new records by a hell of a margin.

Weather is not climate Mr. Clingford.

Careful not to make the same mistake deniers make when a record cold snap hits. (We had a few here like that in Oklahoma too.)

But yes, if the trends hold true over long periods of time, doesn't look good for certain parts of Canada.

I believe they are saying the loss of perennial ice in the arctic is effecting ocean currents, which then effects air currents and land temperatures. If this complexity winds up being true, it will not be good for the ecosystems adapted to milder temps but now existing in very different climatic conditions. Not time enough to adapt and change without significant ecosystem damage.

lomiller · 30th June 2021, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms

Originally Posted by Mr Clingford

It's got a bit madly hot in Canada, setting new records by a hell of a margin.

Weather is not climate Mr. Clingford.

There are ways to investigate whether a weather event is likely related to climate change. Over the last 2 decades there have been several heat waves that turned out to have a high probability of being climate change related.

The numbers haven't been crunched on this one yet to the warning on weather vs climate are wroth noting but given the severity of the heat wave I would not be surprised if this one turns out to be climate related. We won't know either way for a year or more.

Red Baron Farms · 30th June 2021, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by lomiller

The numbers haven't been crunched on this one yet, so the warning on weather vs climate are worth noting, but given the severity of the heat wave I would not be surprised if this one turns out to be climate related.

I would not be surprised either. I just prefer to take a cautionary approach and wait till we have a better idea.

lomiller · 30th June 2021, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms

I would not be surprised either. I just prefer to take a cautionary approach and wait till we have a better idea.

Yeah some caution is advisable, but the scale of this heatwave is crazy. Lytton BC just set new Canadian temperature records for the third day in a row. Yesterday it hit 49.6 deg C (121.3 Def F), only a few higher temperatures have ever been reliably recorded in the America's. The places to have recorded higher temperatures are all in the desert regions of the US southwest or across the border in Mexico. Lytton isn't in a desert like Las Vega (all time high of 117Deg F) or Phoenix (122 Deg F). Lytton is located on the Frazer River in the middle of the Rocky Mountains.

Whether it ends up being attributed to global warming or not, this is a remarkable climate story.

Mr Clingford · 30th June 2021, 01:21 PM

It's the sheer margin of the new records that is astounding. If I were talking to a sceptic/denier I would indeed talk about trends. But this is just off the charts.

The Atheist · 30th June 2021, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Clingford

It's got a bit madly hot in Canada, setting new records by a hell of a margin.

Haven't seen you for a while, mate!

It's also killing more oldies than Covid. They're dropping like flies, which was entirely predictable, given Canadian residences aren't built for extreme heat.

I made the comment on another forum that Canada's new all-time high (at latitude 53 deg N) is over two degrees hotter than the hottest temperature ever recorded in Alice Springs.

Alice is bang in the middle of Australia, latitude 23 deg S.

And nobody's even mentioned the heatwave in Siberia which is even further above normal than Canada/USA.

Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms

Weather is not climate Mr. Clingford.

Oh, bollocks.

Climate science has predicted more and hotter heatwaves for a long time, and these are the direct result of that science coming true.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...limate-change/

Red Baron Farms · 1st July 2021, 06:17 PM

90% of Lytton, B.C. destroyed by inferno: MP

macdoc · 7th July 2021, 07:37 PM

Word from the experts

Quote:

Rapid attribution of PNW heatwave
Filed under: Climate impacts Climate modelling Climate Science heatwaves Instrumental Record statistics — group @ 7 July 2021
Summary: It was almost impossible for the temperatures seen recently in the Pacific North West heatwave to have occurred without global warming. And only improbable with it.

It’s been clear for at least a decade that global warming has been in general increasing the intensity of heat waves, with clear trends in observed maximum temperatures that match what climate models have been predicting. For the specific situation in the Pacific NorthWest at the end of June, we now have the first attribution analysis from the World Weather Attribution group – a consortium of climate experts from around the world working on extreme event attribution. Their preprint (Philip et al.) is available here.

https://www.realclimate.org/index.ph...-pnw-heatwave/

macdoc · 28th July 2021, 06:00 PM

ouch

Quote:

U.N. climate panel confronts implausibly hot forecasts of future warming
By Paul VoosenJul. 27, 2021 , 4:50 PM
Next month, after a yearlong delay because of the pandemic, the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) will begin to release its first major assessment of human-caused global warming since 2013. The report, the first part of which will appear on 9 August, will drop on a world that has starkly changed in 8 years, warming by more than 0.3°C to nearly 1.3°C above preindustrial levels.

more

so much for 1.2

arthwollipot · 29th July 2021, 10:58 PM

Meanwhile, two big pieces of news from Australia:

Australia’s energy market operator plans for net zero by 2050 as Morrison stalls

Quote:

Aemo says new planning scenarios, including a ‘hydrogen superpower’ option, reflect accelerating transition in energy market

While Scott Morrison is yet to give a formal commitment to achieving net zero by 2050, Australia’s energy market operator has added the mid-century scenario to its forward planning.

In its latest Inputs, Assumptions and Scenarios Report, released on Friday, the Australian Energy Market Operator (Aemo) has added new planning scenarios – including net zero by 2050 and a “hydrogen superpower” option.

Aemo’s chief system design officer, Alex Wonhas, said the updated scenario planning reflected the accelerating transition in Australia’s energy market and “overwhelming” calls from stakeholders for the energy market operator to produce scenarios “to reflect the observed rapid decarbonisation of the energy sector and pathways to achieve net-zero emissions across the economy”.

Stakeholders say Aemo initially floated a more prominent transitional role for gas in line with the Morrison government’s “gas-fired recovery” rhetoric, but this idea was resisted during consultation. Aemo spent 10 months consulting with consumer groups, governments, individuals and industry on its plans.

Origin Energy slashes value of Australia’s biggest coal-fired plant due to impact of cheap renewables

Quote:

Shares tumble after company announces $1.5bn asset writedown and lower expected earnings

Origin Energy has slashed the value of its assets, including Australia’s biggest coal-fired power plant, by more than $1.5bn as cheap power from renewables floods the national grid.

Company shares tumbled as much as 10% on Friday morning after Origin announced the writedown and lower expected earnings next year to the Australian Securities Exchange, before recovering slightly to be down about 7.85% about 12.45pm.

Origin owns Eraring power station in New South Wales. It is the company’s and the nation’s biggest coal-fired power plant, supplying NSW with about 25% of its electricity.

In a statement to the ASX, the company said it had cut the value of its power stations by $583m due to lower power prices “driven by new supply expected to come online, including both renewable and dispatchable capacity, impacting the valuation of the generation fleet, particularly Eraring power station”.

macdoc · 3rd August 2021, 02:22 PM

Insane consequences unfolding ...I hate to think what is going on in SIberia

Quote:

Greenland: enough ice melted on single day to cover Florida in two inches of water
Data shows ice sheet lost 8.5bn tons of surface mass on Tuesday
All-time record temperature of 19.8C in region on Wednesday

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...climate-crisis

The Atheist · 3rd August 2021, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by macdoc

Insane consequences unfolding ...I hate to think what is going on in SIberia

You'll hate it even more when you see what is going on there.

Can you say "feedback loop"?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/...ias-permafrost

macdoc · 5th August 2021, 09:31 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...tream-collapse

The Atheist · 6th August 2021, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by macdoc

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...tream-collapse

I wonder if that news is as bad for the planet as it's painted.

It's certainly going to impact a lot of humans, but with no warm water in the north Atlantic/North Sea, and consequently the Arctic Ocean, the northern polar cap may grow, and Greenland re-build glaciers, mitigating some of the effects of the warming planet.

macdoc · 9th August 2021, 04:42 PM

It's really bad for Europe.

....

This is really bad for some fossil fuel companies.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...storic-ruling/

too little too late methinks.
I recall the world only got serious about acid rain when the courts got involved - it got cleaned up then relatively quickly, almost zero jobs were lost and it cost far less than the handwringers projected.

13th January 2021, 09:35 PM	#361
Red Baron Farms Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 5,234	Originally Posted by The Atheist Damned scaremongers. https://www.theguardian.com/environm...disruption-aoe Ecosystem cascades are indeed scary things. Worldwide? Terrifying. We are still not even 100% sure we can halt or reverse the one we already triggered, assuming we tried. I tend to think we can, but all the evidence is we certainly are not yet.
	__________________ Scott "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison Biome Carbon Cycle Management

14th January 2021, 12:43 AM	#362
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 34,119	Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms We are still not even 100% sure we can halt or reverse the one we already triggered, assuming we tried. That's an assumption I'd be prepared to bet against. We haven't done ****, and won't do until far too late.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

18th January 2021, 11:14 AM	#363
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 13,200	2020 ties for the warmest year on record. This is in spite of La Nina conditions in the second half of the year. The first 3 months of the year were a very weak El Nino, right on the edge of ENSO neutral. Not enough to explain the record temperatures and not enough to outweigh the La Nina conditions of the second half of the year. https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/2...analysis-shows
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen" Last edited by lomiller; 18th January 2021 at 11:15 AM.

25th January 2021, 03:50 PM	#364
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 34,119	Interesting piece here from Pro Publica - not a scientific analysis, but a climate scientist and the barriers they face in the public arena: https://www.propublica.org/article/t...ens-if-you-try
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

25th February 2021, 12:05 PM	#365
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 34,119	Not good news for Western Europe and Pommyland: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...say-scientists
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

25th February 2021, 04:03 PM	#366
Red Baron Farms Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 5,234	$100M xprize for GIGATON SCALE CARBON REMOVAL Elon Musk announces new XPrize I am already working on putting a team together to enter.
	__________________ Scott "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison Biome Carbon Cycle Management

9th March 2021, 11:50 AM	#367
Trakar Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 12,637	Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms $100M xprize for GIGATON SCALE CARBON REMOVAL Elon Musk announces new XPrize I am already working on putting a team together to enter. How's that working out for you so far?!
	__________________ Trakar "By doubting we come to inquiry, and through inquiry we perceive truth." — Peter Abelard "My civilization can do anything!" - David Brin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i275AvgVvow)

9th March 2021, 02:24 PM	#368
Red Baron Farms Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 5,234	Originally Posted by Trakar How's that working out for you so far?! pretty good so far. Got the plan and a few people willing to volunteer their land for soil samples. A guy willing to donate lawyer skills. etc.... The big issue is finding a commercial soil sample lab for the right SOC sample and testing protocol.
	__________________ Scott "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison Biome Carbon Cycle Management

9th March 2021, 05:36 PM	#369
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,591	The collapse of the coal industry has already begun. Energy Australia to close Yallourn power station early and build 350 megawatt battery Quote: Energy Australia will close the Yallourn power station in Victoria's Latrobe Valley in mid-2028 four years ahead of schedule and build a giant power-generating battery instead. The brown coal-fired plant has been operating for 47 years and produces about a fifth of the state's electricity. Yallourn is Victoria's oldest power station and was scheduled to close in 2032. It employs 450 permanent workers plus hundreds of contractors. More at the link.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

25th March 2021, 12:37 PM	#370
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 34,119	Dig out that coal, gas and oil, boys, climate change is history! https://www.huffpost.com/entry/solar...b67593e055ff9d
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

25th March 2021, 01:13 PM	#371
Red Baron Farms Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 5,234	Originally Posted by The Atheist Dig out that coal, gas and oil, boys, climate change is history! https://www.huffpost.com/entry/solar...b67593e055ff9d
	__________________ Scott "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison Biome Carbon Cycle Management

25th March 2021, 11:03 PM	#372
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,591	Originally Posted by The Atheist Dig out that coal, gas and oil, boys, climate change is history! https://www.huffpost.com/entry/solar...b67593e055ff9d My opinion is that by the time a viable solar geoengineering scheme is ready to be implemented, it will no longer be needed.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

26th March 2021, 12:53 AM	#373
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 34,119	Originally Posted by arthwollipot My opinion is that by the time a viable solar geoengineering scheme is ready to be implemented, it will no longer be needed. I hope you're right, because trying something when you have no idea what the otucome might be is insane.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

26th March 2021, 12:57 AM	#374
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,591	Originally Posted by The Atheist I hope you're right, because trying something when you have no idea what the otucome might be is insane. The length of time it would take to model and simulate and predict to a reasonable enough level of accuracy is why I reckon that by the time it's ready to implement we will have resolved the climate crisis by other means. But hey, research is research and if the National Academies want to throw money at this, they're perfectly entitled to.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

26th March 2021, 05:48 AM	#375
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 15,831	This is not good news: One of Earth’s giant carbon sinks may have been overestimated - study Quote: The storage potential of one of the Earth’s biggest carbon sinks – soils – may have been overestimated, research shows. This could mean ecosystems on land soaking up less of humanity’s emissions than expected, and more rapid global heating. Soils and the plants that grow in them absorb about a third of the carbon emissions that drive the climate crisis, partly limiting the impact of fossil-fuel burning. Rising carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere can increase plant growth and, until now, it was assumed carbon storage in soils would increase too. But the study, based on over 100 experiments, found the opposite. When plant growth increases, soil carbon does not. The finding is significant because the amount of organic carbon stored in soils is about three times that in living plants and double that in the atmosphere. Soils can also store carbon for centuries, whereas plants and trees rot quickly after they die.
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

26th March 2021, 07:39 AM	#376
Red Baron Farms Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 5,234	Originally Posted by Pixel42 This is not good news: One of Earth’s giant carbon sinks may have been overestimated - study It's not even news to people working on carbon sequestration in the soil. But to understand why you must dig deeper. For example the forest soils did not store any more organic carbon at all. Something I have repeatedly stressed over and over. That is the wrong biome. Forests store more biomass, they are not the terrestrial biome that sequesters stable carbon. The study also showed that in grasslands, elevated CO2 led to +9% plant growth, but soil carbon rose by 8%. People have repeatedly been trying to say forests are the biological feedback to increased CO2, but the evidence shows it is grasslands not forests. Grasslands that at least in the US are estimated at ~80% degraded. There is huge potential in restoring grassland biomes.
	__________________ Scott "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison Biome Carbon Cycle Management Last edited by Red Baron Farms; 26th March 2021 at 07:41 AM.

27th March 2021, 06:24 AM	#377
Red Baron Farms Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 5,234	Pixel42, Just to add to the above. I wrote a much better answer on Quora why and how back in 2017, 3 1/2 years ago. Here is a link: How many trees do I need to plant to offset the carbon dioxide released by a person living 80 years in the west? I think I will now upgrade that answer with the Nature Study. Thanks for the link! But don't worry. We got this!
	__________________ Scott "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison Biome Carbon Cycle Management

30th March 2021, 11:05 PM	#378
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 10,276	To poke at a link that's a little relevant... API Wants You, The Consumer, To Pay The Price For Its Pollution Short summation? American Petroleum Institute has signaled a willingness to come to the negotiating table on a carbon tax... provided a number of sabotage conditions are met. For example, removing other environmental and public health safeguards, getting the government to give them even more money to clean up their natural gas messes and sell that gas, for them to receive credit when their product is used in other products... like plastics, that consumers know how much the any carbon tax is theoretically costing them, clearly marked at gas pumps because it's the consumers that truly need taxed instead of API as the petroleum is pumped out of the ground, and the like. **** them.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon. Last edited by Aridas; 30th March 2021 at 11:08 PM.

31st March 2021, 05:07 PM	#379
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,591	They know they're on the ropes and they don't like it. Progress will be made despite them.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

31st March 2021, 07:28 PM	#380
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 34,119	How Aussie will look if 3 degrees of warming happen: https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/...c-this-century
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

1st May 2021, 08:24 AM	#381
wobs Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Hull Posts: 3,109	Net zero trap. A fairly long but good summation why we still haven't got co2 down. https://theconversation.com/climate-...us-trap-157368
	__________________ "To vowels. They stop consonants sticking together like boiled sweets in a paper bag."

9th May 2021, 11:44 AM	#382
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 10,276	Hmm... Because this Daily Kos community article seems up Red Baron Farms' alley, though likely not telling him anything especially new, I feel like linking to it so he can take a look if he wants and judge it for himself. Really short summation, Biden apparently mentioned "cover crops" and this person decided to try to give a short run down of what they are, how beneficial they are, how valuable soil can be for handling climate change, and some government actions related to that.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon. Last edited by Aridas; 9th May 2021 at 11:47 AM.

9th May 2021, 08:36 PM	#383
Red Baron Farms Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 5,234	Originally Posted by Aridas Hmm... Because this Daily Kos community article seems up Red Baron Farms' alley, though likely not telling him anything especially new, I feel like linking to it so he can take a look if he wants and judge it for himself. Really short summation, Biden apparently mentioned "cover crops" and this person decided to try to give a short run down of what they are, how beneficial they are, how valuable soil can be for handling climate change, and some government actions related to that. Thanks and you are correct. It's a pretty basic primer. However, if it helps people understand, all good. Personally I prefer actually stating what is happening with more scientific terminology. Even if it is new knowledge, it seems people learn it faster when they can use the proper terms like Arbuscular Mycorrhizal Fungi, and Saprophytic Fungi, symbiosis etc.... instead of generic and vague "beneficial microorganisms". When the article author says things like this, it seems to me to be talking down to the reader, and purposely making it too vague to have any possibility to understand. Just my opinion though. The article is basically correct. It's just not very useful in my opinion. Maybe the author could have explained it better if they had more space available?
	__________________ Scott "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison Biome Carbon Cycle Management

29th June 2021, 11:37 PM	#384
Mr Clingford Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,090	It's got a bit madly hot in Canada, setting new records by a hell of a margin.
	__________________ God is my copilot. But we crashed into a mountain and I had to eat him.

30th June 2021, 04:49 AM	#385
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 34,736	LA County doesn't have enough prison slaves, because of the pandemic, in order to fight wildfires. Beyond parody. Quote: He said L.A. County would normally have 24 inmate firefighting crews but is down to eight, as many were sent home from prison after the state granted them early release because of the pandemic. That has forced the department to dip into its budget to train more paid crew members, he said. https://www.latimes.com/california/s...ecedented-pace
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

30th June 2021, 06:36 AM	#386
Red Baron Farms Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 5,234	Originally Posted by Mr Clingford It's got a bit madly hot in Canada, setting new records by a hell of a margin. Weather is not climate Mr. Clingford. Careful not to make the same mistake deniers make when a record cold snap hits. (We had a few here like that in Oklahoma too.) But yes, if the trends hold true over long periods of time, doesn't look good for certain parts of Canada. I believe they are saying the loss of perennial ice in the arctic is effecting ocean currents, which then effects air currents and land temperatures. If this complexity winds up being true, it will not be good for the ecosystems adapted to milder temps but now existing in very different climatic conditions. Not time enough to adapt and change without significant ecosystem damage.
	__________________ Scott "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison Biome Carbon Cycle Management

30th June 2021, 07:05 AM	#387
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 13,200	Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms Originally Posted by Mr Clingford It's got a bit madly hot in Canada, setting new records by a hell of a margin. Weather is not climate Mr. Clingford. There are ways to investigate whether a weather event is likely related to climate change. Over the last 2 decades there have been several heat waves that turned out to have a high probability of being climate change related. The numbers haven't been crunched on this one yet to the warning on weather vs climate are wroth noting but given the severity of the heat wave I would not be surprised if this one turns out to be climate related. We won't know either way for a year or more.
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

30th June 2021, 07:21 AM	#388
Red Baron Farms Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 5,234	Originally Posted by lomiller The numbers haven't been crunched on this one yet, so the warning on weather vs climate are worth noting, but given the severity of the heat wave I would not be surprised if this one turns out to be climate related. I would not be surprised either. I just prefer to take a cautionary approach and wait till we have a better idea.
	__________________ Scott "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison Biome Carbon Cycle Management

30th June 2021, 08:58 AM	#389
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 13,200	Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms I would not be surprised either. I just prefer to take a cautionary approach and wait till we have a better idea. Yeah some caution is advisable, but the scale of this heatwave is crazy. Lytton BC just set new Canadian temperature records for the third day in a row. Yesterday it hit 49.6 deg C (121.3 Def F), only a few higher temperatures have ever been reliably recorded in the America's. The places to have recorded higher temperatures are all in the desert regions of the US southwest or across the border in Mexico. Lytton isn't in a desert like Las Vega (all time high of 117Deg F) or Phoenix (122 Deg F). Lytton is located on the Frazer River in the middle of the Rocky Mountains. Whether it ends up being attributed to global warming or not, this is a remarkable climate story.
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

30th June 2021, 01:21 PM	#390
Mr Clingford Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,090	It's the sheer margin of the new records that is astounding. If I were talking to a sceptic/denier I would indeed talk about trends. But this is just off the charts.
	__________________ God is my copilot. But we crashed into a mountain and I had to eat him.

30th June 2021, 02:01 PM	#391
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 34,119	Originally Posted by Mr Clingford It's got a bit madly hot in Canada, setting new records by a hell of a margin. Haven't seen you for a while, mate! It's also killing more oldies than Covid. They're dropping like flies, which was entirely predictable, given Canadian residences aren't built for extreme heat. I made the comment on another forum that Canada's new all-time high (at latitude 53 deg N) is over two degrees hotter than the hottest temperature ever recorded in Alice Springs. Alice is bang in the middle of Australia, latitude 23 deg S. And nobody's even mentioned the heatwave in Siberia which is even further above normal than Canada/USA. Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms Weather is not climate Mr. Clingford. Oh, bollocks. Climate science has predicted more and hotter heatwaves for a long time, and these are the direct result of that science coming true. https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...limate-change/
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

1st July 2021, 06:17 PM	#392
Red Baron Farms Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 5,234	90% of Lytton, B.C. destroyed by inferno: MP
	__________________ Scott "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison Biome Carbon Cycle Management

7th July 2021, 07:37 PM	#393
macdoc Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Planet earth on slow boil Posts: 8,077	Word from the experts Quote: Rapid attribution of PNW heatwave Filed under: Climate impacts Climate modelling Climate Science heatwaves Instrumental Record statistics — group @ 7 July 2021 Summary: It was almost impossible for the temperatures seen recently in the Pacific North West heatwave to have occurred without global warming. And only improbable with it. It’s been clear for at least a decade that global warming has been in general increasing the intensity of heat waves, with clear trends in observed maximum temperatures that match what climate models have been predicting. For the specific situation in the Pacific NorthWest at the end of June, we now have the first attribution analysis from the World Weather Attribution group – a consortium of climate experts from around the world working on extreme event attribution. Their preprint (Philip et al.) is available here. https://www.realclimate.org/index.ph...-pnw-heatwave/
	__________________ _{Mainstream climate science sources • http://www.skepticalscience.com/empi...al-warming.htm • https://arstechnica.com/science/2021...cting-a-future} https://www.realclimate.org/index.ph...05/start-here/ _{Travelphotos >https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries}

28th July 2021, 06:00 PM	#394
macdoc Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Planet earth on slow boil Posts: 8,077	ouch Quote: U.N. climate panel confronts implausibly hot forecasts of future warming By Paul VoosenJul. 27, 2021 , 4:50 PM Next month, after a yearlong delay because of the pandemic, the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) will begin to release its first major assessment of human-caused global warming since 2013. The report, the first part of which will appear on 9 August, will drop on a world that has starkly changed in 8 years, warming by more than 0.3°C to nearly 1.3°C above preindustrial levels. more so much for 1.2
	__________________ _{Mainstream climate science sources • http://www.skepticalscience.com/empi...al-warming.htm • https://arstechnica.com/science/2021...cting-a-future} https://www.realclimate.org/index.ph...05/start-here/ _{Travelphotos >https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries}

29th July 2021, 10:58 PM	#395
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,591	Meanwhile, two big pieces of news from Australia: Australia’s energy market operator plans for net zero by 2050 as Morrison stalls Quote: Aemo says new planning scenarios, including a ‘hydrogen superpower’ option, reflect accelerating transition in energy market While Scott Morrison is yet to give a formal commitment to achieving net zero by 2050, Australia’s energy market operator has added the mid-century scenario to its forward planning. In its latest Inputs, Assumptions and Scenarios Report, released on Friday, the Australian Energy Market Operator (Aemo) has added new planning scenarios – including net zero by 2050 and a “hydrogen superpower” option. Aemo’s chief system design officer, Alex Wonhas, said the updated scenario planning reflected the accelerating transition in Australia’s energy market and “overwhelming” calls from stakeholders for the energy market operator to produce scenarios “to reflect the observed rapid decarbonisation of the energy sector and pathways to achieve net-zero emissions across the economy”. Stakeholders say Aemo initially floated a more prominent transitional role for gas in line with the Morrison government’s “gas-fired recovery” rhetoric, but this idea was resisted during consultation. Aemo spent 10 months consulting with consumer groups, governments, individuals and industry on its plans. Origin Energy slashes value of Australia’s biggest coal-fired plant due to impact of cheap renewables Quote: Shares tumble after company announces $1.5bn asset writedown and lower expected earnings Origin Energy has slashed the value of its assets, including Australia’s biggest coal-fired power plant, by more than $1.5bn as cheap power from renewables floods the national grid. Company shares tumbled as much as 10% on Friday morning after Origin announced the writedown and lower expected earnings next year to the Australian Securities Exchange, before recovering slightly to be down about 7.85% about 12.45pm. Origin owns Eraring power station in New South Wales. It is the company’s and the nation’s biggest coal-fired power plant, supplying NSW with about 25% of its electricity. In a statement to the ASX, the company said it had cut the value of its power stations by $583m due to lower power prices “driven by new supply expected to come online, including both renewable and dispatchable capacity, impacting the valuation of the generation fleet, particularly Eraring power station”.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/