New Zealand Politics, the Ardern years

[cullennz]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Only to prove your own words wrong in the very next sentence:



Let in by a government consumed with keeping the rich rich.



Utter nonsense that can be answered in three letters: TAX.



God, I'd love to know what you're smoking, because it must be really good stuff. House prices are up 20% in the past 12 months. Even if they dropped 20%, a tiny fraction of owners would be impacted, and with interest rates at 2%, it wouldn't impact on owner-occupiers one bit.

At the end of the day no govt can afford to have house prices actually reduce.

With the amount of voters mortgaged up to their **** holes and looking at negative equity if it happened. It would be lie shooting yourself in the foot.

They all pretend to say they will do it though, from both sides, which is humorous.

Is quite handy for Ardern ruling out a CGT so early and blaming Peters.

I have heard they may turn the 5 year Bightline from 5 to 10 years, which will make as much difference to the housing situation as a fart in an Olympic size swimming pool.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by cullennz

At the end of the day no govt can afford to have house prices actually reduce.

Rubbish.

Originally Posted by cullennz

With the amount of voters mortgaged up to their **** holes and looking at negative equity if it happened.

You're out of touch with reality.

House prices have increased 20% in the past one year. A 20% reduction now would have almost zero effect on anybody.

Butbutbut... it might cost Cinderella votes, and that's a step too far.

The numb **** is creating a tsunami of trouble in future years. Do you not even realise that poverty has a serious negative long-term impact on crime, health and longevity?

Her front is a cynical reflection of what she actually is.

The most ironic thing about this situation is that Jacinda is far to the right of Bill English.

[PhantomWolf]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Only to prove your own words wrong in the very next sentence:

Let in by a government consumed with keeping the rich rich.

You do understand that the Government doesn't have any ability to refuse to allow people with New Zealand Citizenship entrance to the country, right?

Quote:

Utter nonsense that can be answered in three letters: TAX.

Please explain how making people pay more expenses with a new tax will bring down house prices.

Quote:

God, I'd love to know what you're smoking, because it must be really good stuff. House prices are up 20% in the past 12 months. Even if they dropped 20%, a tiny fraction of owners would be impacted, and with interest rates at 2%, it wouldn't impact on owner-occupiers one bit.

Do you know how many houses have changed hands in the past 12 months? Also, interest rates are irrelevant in this, it's a case of having an asset that is worthless less than the debt you have on it. That sort of thing makes lenders very nervous, and it allows people to default on their loans and walk away better off, especially as interest rates are likely to increase, which could have people being pushed beyond their means to pay for houses that aren't worth the debt on them. This is the exact sort of thing that triggered the 2008 housing crisis.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

You do understand that the Government doesn't have any ability to refuse to allow people with New Zealand Citizenship entrance to the country, right?

Oh my god - someone actually came out with that idiotic response.

Are numbers limited right now? Are NZ taxpayers paying for the quarantine facilities?

Limit the numbers further, create a user-pays system. Game over.

And there are non-NZ citizens being allowed in right now, for no other reason than they have a Kiwi girl/boyfriend.

I'm not even going to bother mentioning the government cut off all flights last year.

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

Please explain how making people pay more expenses with a new tax will bring down house prices.

Just ask yourself why the empty vessel refused to consider a capital gains tax.

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

Do you know how many houses have changed hands in the past 12 months?

If 109,000 houses were listed fore sale in 2020, I'm going to go with less than 109,000.

With a total of 1.9M residences, I make that a whole 0.57% of the total stock.

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

Also, interest rates are irrelevant in this, it's a case of having an asset that is worthless less than the debt you have on it.

It's not often I find someone as ignorant of finance, but there you go.

If someone is living in a house, how does their cashflow change?

And nice strawman on the idiotic "asset that is worth less than the debt".

If the property market went down by 20%, a massive 0.57% of home owners could end up with negative equity. That is truly a tragedy.

Yet again I will note the empty vessels own Tweets, that she cannot escape:

2015: Jacinda Ardern, verified Twat: "John Key just told the gallery he doesn't think Auckland houses are over valued. THEY'RE EARNING MORE THAN PEOPLE!!! For the love of.."

Six years is a long time in politics.

[PhantomWolf]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Oh my god - someone actually came out with that idiotic response.

Are numbers limited right now? Are NZ taxpayers paying for the quarantine facilities?

Limit the numbers further, create a user-pays system. Game over.

Seriously, this is just naive. Do you really think that you can legally bar citizens from returning home? Paying for MIQ isn't going to be a game-changer for people wanting to escape the hellscape that is the pandemic at the moment. And as for limiting numbers, we just had the whole Wiggles fiasco, what do you suggest we do with Kiwis that arrive here without a placement in MIQ?

Quote:

And there are non-NZ citizens being allowed in right now, for no other reason than they have a Kiwi girl/boyfriend.

Do you really think that these are the people that are selling up overseas and buying houses here at inflated rates? If not then why even mention it?

Quote:

I'm not even going to bother mentioning the government cut off all flights last year.

Yes, they stopped the flights, you can't get here if there aren't any flights, but had a kiwi arrived here, they would not have been able to prevent them entering the country, that's one of the rights that being a citizen grants you unless you are advocating removing people's rights over house prices.

Quote:

Just ask yourself why the empty vessel refused to consider a capital gains tax.

I'm going to take it that you can't actually explain how a capital gains tax would lower house prices then.

Quote:

If 109,000 houses were listed fore sale in 2020, I'm going to go with less than 109,000.

With a total of 1.9M residences, I make that a whole 0.57% of the total stock.

Let's do some quick math...

100,000 houses at an average of $597,000 dropping 20%. That's a drop in value of $12 billion dollars across the board. How many of our financial institutes can take that sort of hit?

Quote:

It's not often I find someone as ignorant of finance, but there you go.

If someone is living in a house, how does their cashflow change?

You seem to think that everything is independent. If house prices start to drop, interest rates will go up because loans will become riskier. If you are paying more in interest, then your cashflow goes down. This is finance 101.

Quote:

And nice strawman on the idiotic "asset that is worth less than the debt".

Not a strawman either. This again is Finance 101. Having security (in this case property) that is worth less than the outstanding loan is a bad investment, and it leaves you vulnerable to that debt not being paid. That makes the likes of banks very, very nervous, and they do things like put up interest rates to create a buffer to that potential bad debt.

Quote:

If the property market went down by 20%, a massive 0.57% of home owners could end up with negative equity. That is truly a tragedy.

Yes, a 0.57% who would suddenly owe $12 Billion more than their properties are worth.

Quote:

2015: Jacinda Ardern, verified Twat: "John Key just told the gallery he doesn't think Auckland houses are over valued. THEY'RE EARNING MORE THAN PEOPLE!!! For the love of.."

Six years is a long time in politics.

And she clearly stated prior to the Election that house prices were increasing too much. You seem to think that there is a big red lever next to her desk that she can pull and suddenly house prices will drop 20%, and yet you are also the one that is busy calling others names for pointing out that house pricing is a complex thing and not something that the Government has a lot of control over.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Oh my god - someone actually came out with that idiotic response.

Are numbers limited right now? Are NZ taxpayers paying for the quarantine facilities?

Limit the numbers further, create a user-pays system. Game over.

And there are non-NZ citizens being allowed in right now, for no other reason than they have a Kiwi girl/boyfriend.

I'm not even going to bother mentioning the government cut off all flights last year.



Just ask yourself why the empty vessel refused to consider a capital gains tax.



If 109,000 houses were listed fore sale in 2020, I'm going to go with less than 109,000.

With a total of 1.9M residences, I make that a whole 0.57% of the total stock.



It's not often I find someone as ignorant of finance, but there you go.

If someone is living in a house, how does their cashflow change?

And nice strawman on the idiotic "asset that is worth less than the debt".

If the property market went down by 20%, a massive 0.57% of home owners could end up with negative equity. That is truly a tragedy.

Yet again I will note the empty vessels own Tweets, that she cannot escape:

2015: Jacinda Ardern, verified Twat: "John Key just told the gallery he doesn't think Auckland houses are over valued. THEY'RE EARNING MORE THAN PEOPLE!!! For the love of.."

Six years is a long time in politics.

I think you will find it is 5.7%, for what it’s worth.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

Seriously, this is just naive. Do you really think that you can legally bar citizens from returning home?

Do you even read, bro?

I said limit the numbers.

The numbers are already limited.

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

Paying for MIQ isn't going to be a game-changer for people wanting to escape the hellscape that is the pandemic at the moment.

It unquestionably would. They're not all millionaires.

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

what do you suggest we do with Kiwis that arrive here without a placement in MIQ?

Don't get on a plane without one. Are you really so dense you couldn't work that out for yourself?

Nothing else in your post needs to be answered, because it just displays your complete lack of understanding of finance and economics. The banks would have no trouble at all - you're ignoring the massive increase in home equity over the past decade & more. I won't even bother repeating that is an owner-occupier is in a house that goes down in value, it makes no difference to their cashflow, or the bank's.

Originally Posted by lionking

I think you will find it is 5.7%, for what it’s worth.

Yeah, good spot - I must have slipped an extra zero and didn't notice, even though it's quite obvious to look at.

[The Atheist]

And just in case anyone is ignorant enough of the situation here to be sucked by loads of bollocks in this thread, the country's leading economist has called for our gutless Finance Minister to take action, while the by-far largest bank in NZ has stated:

Originally Posted by ANZ Bank

"big, bold, urgent" action to stop house prices rocketing even further, saying a "managed supply-induced decline in house prices" would be better than the possible alternative - a "painful correction".

[Roger Ramjets]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

the by-far largest bank in NZ has stated:

Quote:

ANZ says post-quake Christchurch shows it can be done. Since 2015, prices in Selwyn have gone up only 2 percent - a fraction of the nationwide increase of 37 percent.

"Given income gains, house prices in Selwyn have been getting gradually more affordable. This is despite very strong population growth, with the population increasing 60 percent since 2011."

Selywn's done it through releasing more land, having minimum density requirements, streamlining consents and having a long-term plan, ANZ says...

A capital gains tax, on the other hand, is "worth considering for broader reasons, like intergenerational equality", but would only have a very slight effect on house prices, "similar to the ban on foreign buyers"

So the answer - according to the ANZ bank - is to encourage people to build more houses, by removing red tape and making long term plans for them. Nothing about barring NZ citizens from returning home. No suggestion that a capital gains tax would make a significant difference.

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Yet again I will note the empty vessels own Tweets, that she cannot escape:

2015: Jacinda Ardern, verified Twat:

Definition of twat

1 slang, vulgar + offensive : a woman's sexual organs

Or perhaps it means something different in New Zealand? Nah, it's just your misogyny showing again.

Perhaps you have something worthwhile to say, but if so it's lost in the childish name-calling and offensive language. Why should we listen to someone who has to resort to such tactics to boost their argument?

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

Definition of twat

That's why I used the term.

I'd be much less polite if the thread were in Community.
_______________________________

Meanwhile, Graeme Hart has made $3.5Bn since the start of the pandemic, so I'm picking his vote's safe: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124...vid19-pandemic

[PhantomWolf]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Do you even read, bro?

I said limit the numbers.

The numbers are already limited

Numbers are limited because we only have a certain number of placements available. You are talking about artificially limiting placements which is essentially implementing a ban on people from returning when they want to.

Quote:

It unquestionably would. They're not all millionaires.

Are you suggesting that the NZ government charge extraordinary rates for MIQ? I'm also confused, didn't you already complain that only the Rich were being let in? Wouldn't this plan just make sure that only the rich could get into the country? So how would that stop them from coming in and buying houses at inflated prices?

Quote:

Don't get on a plane without one. Are you really so dense you couldn't work that out for yourself?

Yeah, cause that worked so well so far *cough*Wiggles*cough*

Quote:

Nothing else in your post needs to be answered, because it just displays your complete lack of understanding of finance and economics. The banks would have no trouble at all - you're ignoring the massive increase in home equity over the past decade & more. I won't even bother repeating that is an owner-occupier is in a house that goes down in value, it makes no difference to their cashflow, or the bank's.

I guess the author of the article you posted in the next post is just as ignorant then, which makes me wonder why you posted the article or did you fail to read it?

you know, bits like this

New Zealanders have favoured pouring money into property instead of productive investments since the 1987 market crash. Investors say it's been a foolproof way to make money - Ashley Church, former head of the Property Institute of New Zealand, telling The AM Show in November values double every seven to 10 years, regardless of what moves the Government and Reserve Bank make.

and this part...

"Incentives to reduce the attractiveness of property investment would perhaps be desirable to impact the composition of the market, even if not a game changer for affordability. The most effective way to reduce the attractiveness of property investment is to reduce the scope for capital gains by increasing supply."

A capital gains tax, on the other hand, is "worth considering for broader reasons, like intergenerational equality", but would only have a very slight effect on house prices, "similar to the ban on foreign buyers".

Both of these totally contradicts your previous claims.

And yes the ANZ does say that they think the best idea is to try and increase the housing stock by freeing up move land and building more houses. This is exactly what the present Government is doing with consents hitting record numbers across the country, up 4.2% from last year with a total of 38,624 consents being granted (and that was with an extremely poor May and April because of COVID lockdowns). There is new land is being opened up as fast as it can be developed, and is being snapped up just as fast. On top of that, we have a shortage of builders and building materials. This is one of the issues plaguing the KiwiBuild Project which was aiming to provide cheaper housing for 1st home buyers, but it has fallen short because it is impossible to get enough builders and materials to build them at the rates required.

So you are claiming that the Government isn't doing enough when it's doing exactly what the article you then posted recommends doing, within the physical limits of doing it. The only other solution you seem willing to provide is to stop NZers from returning home unless they are ultra-wealthy, which seems like it's the exact opposite of what we require.

And when told these things, instead of defending your position, your wave your hands in the breeze and demand that people stop pointing out your errors because they know nothing.

Oh, and another question. Given that the ANZ only made a A$1.4 Billion dollar profit last year, and the others made less than that, how exactly would they easily handle up to $12 Billion in combined losses should people decide to walk away from a depreciating home that is over-mortgaged?

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

Oh, and another question. Given that the ANZ only made a A$1.4 Billion dollar profit last year, and the others made less than that, how exactly would they easily handle up to $12 Billion in combined losses should people decide to walk away from a depreciating home that is over-mortgaged?

You really have no clue at all.

Losses would be nothing like $12B because almost none of the losses would be realised. Owner occupiers aren't going to walk away from a paper loss to pay more in rent than their mortgage, or does even that absurdly obvious point escape you? An $800,000 mortgage costs $500 a week, while rent on the property is over $700.

Once you learn how to spell "economics" get back to me.

I'm not even going to bother noting I didn't suggest capital gains or land taxes were the only option. I only gave one option because I don't bother trying to educate the wilfully ignorant.

[The Atheist]

I'm thinking there must be a word to describe people so desperate for a hero that they're prepared to overlook a wide range of faults and outright hypocrisy to believe in one.

It's probably German.

[psionl0]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Losses would be nothing like $12B because almost none of the losses would be realised. Owner occupiers aren't going to walk away from a paper loss to pay more in rent than their mortgage, or does even that absurdly obvious point escape you? An $800,000 mortgage costs $500 a week, while rent on the property is over $700.

You haven't considered what happens when you don't have a choice (you lost your job or something).

If you are unable to pay your rent then you get evicted. Lose the ability to make your mortgage payments then not only do you lose the house but if prices have fallen then your equity is probably negative and you can be forced into bankruptcy as well. That is why falling house prices are bad for home owners as well as investors.

Of course, rapidly rising house prices is also a bad thing. It locks new entrants out of the housing market and for owner occupiers, it at best increases the taxes and duties you have to pay whenever you want to sell up and move. I find it hard to believe that politicians and the gullible public are so enamoured with rising house prices that the government actually has home buyer schemes that push the prices up even further. That only benefits speculators.

Best if property prices are limited to inflation only.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by psionl0

That is why falling house prices are bad for home owners as well as investors.

Yet by far the largest lender is calling for house prices to be stabilised or fall.

Gosh, I wonder why that could be. ANZ isn't exactly known as a hotbed of liberal attitudes - especially towards NZ.

Originally Posted by psionl0

... it at best increases the taxes and duties you have to pay whenever you want to sell up and move.

In NZ, that figure is zero, so increases won't be too painful.

Originally Posted by psionl0

I find it hard to believe that politicians and the gullible public are so enamoured with rising house prices that the government actually has home buyer schemes that push the prices up even further. That only benefits speculators.

The best example I know is a friend of mine who employs 90 people. He currently has $3M invested in his company and makes a return of around 20% on his money, on which he pays tax. He also pays around $2.5M in wages tax annually. His investment has risen 50% in the 20 years since 2000.

If he had invested his starting $2M in property in 2000 instead of his company, he would have made $6M profit and paid no tax.

Originally Posted by psionl0

Best if property prices are limited to inflation only.

Ah, now there's the entire problem in one sentence.

House prices used to be included in inflation data, but got dropped in the 1980s. Our inflation target of 2% would have kept prices down, but since they don't get counted, it's free money.

[The Atheist]

Also, the idea that all of the people entering NZ right now are NZ citizens or essential workers is a myth.

I've had a massive total of eight responses to a vacancy I'm advertising at the moment.

Two of the eight are non-NZ citizens who have arrived since March 2020. Both are boyfriends of NZ chicks who have returned from UK. No children involved, just people who are required to apply for a visa to come to NZ at any time.

[The Atheist]

All hail our hero Cinderella!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124...19-freeze-ends

40% rent increases - she's certainly doing a great job.

[The Atheist]

This one's even funnier!

Must have been comedy morning at Stuff.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/edu...as-term-starts

[psionl0]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Yet by far the largest lender is calling for house prices to be stabilised or fall.

Gosh, I wonder why that could be. ANZ isn't exactly known as a hotbed of liberal attitudes - especially towards NZ.

I have no idea why a bank would call for lower house prices. If a buyer defaults then the bank relies on selling the house to recover the debt.

Originally Posted by The Atheist

In NZ, that figure is zero, so increases won't be too painful.

You're lucky. Stamp duty is a lucrative source of revenue for the state government here.

Originally Posted by The Atheist

If he had invested his starting $2M in property in 2000 instead of his company, he would have made $6M profit and paid no tax.

There is no capital gains tax in NZ?

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by psionl0

There is no capital gains tax in NZ?

Nope.

Unless you're crazy enough to set up a business with the express intent of making money by flipping houses, you won't be taxed one cent.

There's no irony in people on minimum wage being taxed twice (PAYE & GST), while property traders get taxed zero.

[psionl0]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Unless you're crazy enough to set up a business with the express intent of making money by flipping houses, you won't be taxed one cent.

I don't understand what that means.

In Australia there is no CGT or GST on the family home (but interest on mortgages is not tax deductible). If it is an investment property then the reverse applies. If you rent out your family home for a period of time then any capital appreciation during that time is subject to CGT.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by psionl0

I don't understand what that means.

Doesn't mean anything in practice, because I was being facetious - even then it's not a capital gains tax, which does not exist in NZ.

I believe we're almost the only country with none at all.

[The Atheist]

Schinderella shtays shtum: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124...ome-loan-rates

[Roger Ramjets]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

I was being facetious

And you wonder why people don't take you seriously...

Quote:

Schinderella shtays shtum:

I can't even be bothered following your link. If you can't be sensible...

According to the OP, this thread would be 'more interesting than boring Brexit' - but that was before you facetious'd all over it.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

And you wonder why people don't take you seriously...

Do I?

Pity Randi's mio died out.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

I can't even be bothered following your link. If you can't be sensible...

What's to be sensible about? The government is a bad joke, and deserves to be treated as one.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

- but that was before you facetious'd all over it.

I have two choices - I can let my rage out and become a terrorist, or I can treat the lot of them with complete derision and sarcasm.

Guess which I pick.

[The Atheist]

The country's leading expert on Covid and infections calls for immediate reduction in numbers coming to NZ in light of tripling of new cases in quarantine.

Ho hum

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300...ntries--expert

[The Atheist]

This is ******* gold:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/hea...upid-prof-says

Yet again emphasising our current Covid (maybe) free status is due to being unbelievably lucky rather than really smart.

[PhantomWolf]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Schinderella shtays shtum: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124...ome-loan-rates

What exactly do you think that Jacinda should say? "Naughty banks for setting competitive rates in the market place, how dare you do capitalism in New Zealand!" Do you think that the Government should start setting interest rates?

[PhantomWolf]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

The country's leading expert on Covid and infections calls for immediate reduction in numbers coming to NZ in light of tripling of new cases in quarantine.

Ho hum

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300...ntries--expert

Linking to what is basically a live blog, not your best idea.

Originally Posted by The Atheist

This is ******* gold:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/hea...upid-prof-says

Yet again emphasising our current Covid (maybe) free status is due to being unbelievably lucky rather than really smart.

You seem to be doing a lot of Appealing to Authority of late. I guess whatever falacies it takes to push your adgenda.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

You seem to be doing a lot of Appealing to Authority of late. I guess whatever falacies it takes to push your adgenda.

1 - I suspect you're getting confused with appeal to false authority, because using authoritative opinions is perfectly valid, especially in subjects like economics, which some people of limited intelligence struggle to understand.

2 - try using spell check now and then - your feeble attempted attack looks even more feeble when you can't spell "fallacies" or "agenda".

[Samson]

Ardern inherits the family farm with her sister. She will be deaf and blind to Churchill's 1909 warning

https://www.cooperative-individualis...olies-1909.htm

It is quite true that land monopoly is not the only monopoly which exists, but it is by far the greatest of monopolies - it is a perpetual monopoly, and it is the mother of all other forms of monopoly. It is quite true that unearned increments in land are not the only form of unearned or undeserved profit which individuals are able to secure; but it is the principal form of unearned increment which is derived from processes which are not merely not beneficial, but which are positively detrimental to the general public.

and so on

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Samson

Ardern inherits the family farm with her sister.

How nice for her.

What I find utterly hilarious is the move to outlaw petrol vehicles, adding yet another nail to the coffin of people who can least afford to buy them.

She's pretty well sealed up the much sought-after "Worst Labour Leader in NZ History" prize.

In fact, she's pretty neck and neck with Key for second-worst PM in the country's history. At least she has no chance of catching Muldoon.

Surely?

[Roger Ramjets]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

What I find utterly hilarious is the move to outlaw petrol vehicles, adding yet another nail to the coffin of people who can least afford to buy them.

Ah yes, the old "We can't do what's necessary to save us from extinction because poor people won't be able to afford it" excuse. Pathetic.

We are stuffing the planet with our use of fossil fuels. If we don't address the problem now it's going to get much worse, and people like you will be to blame for it. But we will address it, despite your bleating. New Zealand is not the only country that intends to ban gas cars,

Phase-out of fossil fuel vehicles

Quote:

More than 14 countries and over 20 cities around the world have proposed banning the sale of passenger vehicles (primarily cars and buses) powered by fossil fuels such as petrol, liquefied petroleum gas and diesel at some time in the future...

Countries with proposed bans or implementing 100% sales of zero-emissions vehicles include China, Japan, the UK, South Korea, Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Slovenia, Germany, France, the Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Canada, the 12 U.S. states that adhered to California's Zero-Emission Vehicle (ZEV) Program, Sri Lanka, Cabo Verde, and Costa Rica.

In October 2019, Denmark made a proposal for phasing out fossil fuel vehicles on the member state level by 2030 and was supported by 10 other EU member states

Originally Posted by The Atheist

She's pretty well sealed up the much sought-after "Worst Labour Leader in NZ History" prize.

In your mind perhaps, but reality is a little different...

End of petrol cars: NZ must ban fossil-fueled imports by 2032, says Climate Change Commission

Quote:

New Zealand must ban the import of petrol and diesel cars by 2032 in order to reach its climate change targets and decarbonise the economy, new advice recommends...

One of the key recommendations was to ban the import of fossil-fueled vehicles within 14 years and half of all new cars and motorbikes need to be electric by 2027...

The commission recommended implementing a feebate or subsidy for electric vehicles - a policy which was attempted last term but was shut down by New Zealand First.

That scheme would have made some cleaner cars $8000 cheaper and other dirtier cars $3000 more expensive...

If only the leaders of some other countries had listened to their advisors the World might be not be in such a mess right now.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

Ah yes, the old "We can't do what's necessary to save us from extinction because poor people won't be able to afford it" excuse. Pathetic.

We are stuffing the planet with our use of fossil fuels. If we don't address the problem now it's going to get much worse, and people like you will be to blame for it. But we will address it, despite your bleating. New Zealand is not the only country that intends to ban gas cars,

Phase-out of fossil fuel vehicles


In your mind perhaps, but reality is a little different...

End of petrol cars: NZ must ban fossil-fueled imports by 2032, says Climate Change Commission

If only the leaders of some other countries had listened to their advisors the World might be not be in such a mess right now.

New Zealand is a funeral pyre.
The simplest principality to enact diminishing consumption and a lazy woman child who will destroy for personal gain.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

Ah yes, the old ...

...completely miss the point post.

Samson was on it, so it wasn't that hard to see.

Worrying about what happens in 50 years' time is farcical when this is happening right now:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/h...-from-parasite

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/pro...e-in-carterton

[The Atheist]

Sharon Murdoch gets it - the next page I opened was Stuff, where this appears on the front page:

[The Atheist]

Jacinda's New Zealand just got summed in a beautiful way.

I was walking back from the shop when I saw a young dad walking with his boy (about 7 years old) in school uniform.

I jokingly said to him, "Jeez, your school must start early!"

The dad - an African bloke - gave me a sad smile and told me he was walking with his boy to drop him off at school because he had to go to work and they couldn't afford pre-school care.

At 6:15 am.

For the uninitiated, schools aren't staffed until at least 7:30, so the poor little blighter is going to have to sit there alone for over an hour.

All hail Jacinda!

[The Atheist]

And some more: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124...her-agents-say

The incentive for people to invest in business in NZ is zero - only a retard would take on the hassle of running a business, cutting through swathes of red tape and resource consents, and go through all the trouble you buy when you hire people, when you can get a vastly higher return by doing nothing other than sign a mortgage document.

[Roger Ramjets]

Originally Posted by Samson

New Zealand is a funeral pyre.
The simplest principality to enact diminishing consumption and a lazy woman child who will destroy for personal gain.

Originally Posted by The Atheist

All hail Jacinda!

It's really sad to see so-called 'skeptics' posting stuff like this as if it was rational discourse. But that's the way it always seems to go with men like you (it's always men). Sooner or later the mask of rationality slips and we see the seething mess behind it.

But hey, congratulations on crapping so hard on this thread that I can't stand the smell.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

It's really sad to see so-called 'skeptics' posting stuff like this as if it was rational discourse.

I don't, and never have identified as a skeptic or so-called skeptic.

I'm an atheist.