New Zealand Politics, the Ardern years

[lionking]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Regardless of what she did or didn't do, this is an appalling commentary on what's been happening by way of threats to Ardern:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...istory--expert

Only 20 years ago, when Helen Clark was PM, she used to wander up The Terrace in Wellington to her favourite cafe, which was next door to my office, and I often sat at a table one or two away from her. She had zero security and would sit with whomever accompanied her and drink her coffee in peace.

Well the hatred of Ardern by some in this thread has been extreme and not light years away from the threats she has been receiving.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by lionking

Well the hatred of Ardern by some in this thread has been extreme and not light years away from the threats she has been receiving.

That isn't just nonsense, it's a downright lie.

I'm happy to call her names in a discussion just as I am to call Boris, Scott Morrison, Donald Trump and any other wayward politician rude names.

That's a lot more than light years from making personal threats.

[The Atheist]

Nice epitaph to Jacinda, by Damien Grant. I don't agree with some of what he says about the covid response, but it does contain this absolute gem, which conveniently sums up lots of people in this thread:

Quote:

Ardern will forever be popular among those who are delighted not by what she did, but who she was.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/1310...m-of-5-million

[Roger Ramjets]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Regardless of what she did or didn't do, this is an appalling commentary on what's been happening by way of threats to Ardern:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...istory--expert

Yes, it is appalling. And you were a part of it.

Quote:

Labour lost the election quite comfortably and Jacinda would have done no more than brush her hair on the Opposition benches, except for one silly old fart who so desperately wanted to hurt National that he dumped his own party's rule that they would go with the largest party, and joined Labour instead.

Labour was 14 seats up on the previous election. National and NZ First were both down 3, Greens were down 6. I'll say it again - Jacinda Ardern made the difference, without her Labour had no chance.

2017 New Zealand general election

Quote:

Prior to the election, the centre-right National Party, led by Prime Minister Bill English, had governed since 2008 in a minority government with confidence...

The National Party won a plurality of the seats with 56, down from 60 in 2014. Labour made large gains following Jacinda Ardern becoming the party leader seven weeks prior to the election, increasing its representation from 32 to 46 seats. Labour was the only parliamentary party to gain support

In 2020 Labour - with Jacinda Ardern as leader - streaked ahead to an absolute majority, flipping even 'safe' National seats. But of course the tide was bound to turn as a growing number of covid deniers and other libertarian types came out of the woodwork, combined with the media returning to their usual hostile self and people like you, who are always asserting their superior intellect and putting the boot in.

The growing intransigence and increasing vitriol was a pain to watch, but it cut deeper in this forum because we are supposed to be rational debaters who don't stoop to hateful rhetoric and personal attacks. I was a bit blindsided by it, never expecting you to be at the forefront of it. At least in the US we can generally identify Deplorables by their political leanings.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

Yes, it is appalling. And you were a part of it.

Absolutely a lie.

I have criticised and never made any threat. To say otherwise is blatantly false.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

Labour was 14 seats up on the previous election. National and NZ First were both down 3, Greens were down 6. I'll say it again - Jacinda Ardern made the difference, without her Labour had no chance.

Conveniently ignoring the fact that they finished a clear second. I repeat, the only reason Labour was able to form a coalition government was because Winston Peters broke his party's written rule to join the highest-polling party.

I'll also note that there's zero evidence that Ardern made a bit of difference, because the major issue that changed the dynamic was Key quitting.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

it cut deeper in this forum because we are supposed to be rational debaters who don't stoop to hateful rhetoric and personal attacks.

That is a crock of ****.

I made no personal attacks on her, and I don't believe anyone else did, either. Same applies to hateful rhetoric.

Refer to Damian Grant's column about her fans, who ignore reality and love her for who she pretends to be.

Then come and talk to the children living in cars, or even worse, in "emergency accommodation". You are simply doubling down on your abject ignorance of reality in New Zealand.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

At least in the US we can generally identify Deplorables by their political leanings.

When you're losing, resorting to pathetic ad hominem is a good guide you're out of your depth.

As the saying goes, you don't know **** from clay.

I worked bloody hard and spent real money getting the traitorous bitch elected twice. I think I have every right to feel more than aggrieved that she turned her back on the very people she claimed to care about.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

I worked bloody hard and spent real money getting the traitorous bitch elected twice.

Oh, no hateful rhetoric there at all.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by lionking

Oh, no hateful rhetoric there at all.

I don't class it as either hateful or rhetoric, it's a statement of fact, and mild compared to what I used to say about other traitors to the cause, like Peter Garrett.

She's a traitor to the ideals she got elected on, and I find that unforgivable. Her government gave away $60B to businesses during covid and nothing to the weak. The Auditor-General has already stated they won't pursue at least $5B that was overpaid or incorrectly paid.

Just think what $5 billion could do for child poverty.

The situation is so absurd a private citizen is taking legal action against the A-G.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/...idy-repayments

Note this bit:

Quote:

"The fact that over $750 million has voluntarily been repaid is a good indication that many times more would be repaid if recipients were asked to make repayments."

Nelson said the Auditor-General has taken a much stronger stance over the cost of living payments - within weeks of the first round of payments recommending the IRD "consider what steps it can take to identify how many ineligible people have received payments" and that it be made clear to ineligible people who got the payment that they should repay it immediately.

To break that down - businesses aren't being asked to repay $5B, while a few people who incorrectly received a whopping $300 are being told to repay it immediately.

[lionking]

Please. Your use of the word “traitor” is almost childish, and demonstrates the lack of substance in your arguments. And who, apart from radicals of the far right or the far left has called Peter Garrett a traitor?

[The Atheist]

Utter bollocks.

If you type "traitor" into Google, this comes up right at the top of the page:

Quote:

a person who betrays someone or something, such as a friend, cause, or principle.
"he was a traitor to his own class"

It's a 100% accurate description. "Betrays a cause or principle." Absolutely nailed on.

[The Atheist]

And some nice evidence that Ardern had well and truly done her dash - the electorate is much happier with Hipkins, with Labour getting a decent boost from the change.

They've gone from certain losers to potentially winning their third election in a row.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...t-back-in-play

[pzkpfw]

I think a lot of it will also come down to an ability to drop unpopular stuff (like 3 waters) without it looking so much like a reversal or backdown.


(And I agree with lionking. Dictionary definition be darned. "Traitor" comes across as shrieking hyperbole, and is the kind of thing there's too much of in politics as it is right now. It's the kind of thing that gets certain types worked up enough to make the threats and such that Ardern faced.)

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by pzkpfw

Dictionary definition be darned.

Oh, the lengths people will go to when a word doesn't mean what they want it to. I'll tell my boy's school not to bother teaching English any more.

Originally Posted by pzkpfw

...drop unpopular stuff (like 3 waters)...

Unpopular is in the dictionary, too.

I'd go with one or all of these: insane, idiotic, racist, undemocratic, appeasing...

Take your pick, or feel free to make up a new one.

[pzkpfw]

Yep, more hysterical hyperbole. I would hope your boy's school teaches context and common use along with how to use a dictionary.

I stand by my comment; I made it because your appeal to definition reminded me too much of the people who try to distract from a debate on bigotry by nit-picking what "homophobia" means.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by pzkpfw

Yep, more hysterical hyperbole.

Be a good chap then, and tell me how 14% of the population can control what the other 86% does and it isn't all of these: insane, idiotic, racist, undemocratic, appeasing. (I was kind and left Apartheid out, which is accurate, and highly amusing given Labour's anti-Springbok position of the '70s & '80s)

Originally Posted by pzkpfw

I would hope your boy's school teaches context and common use along with how to use a dictionary.

They do, and in Jacinda's case, the context is blindingly obvious.

Let me lead you through it.

Just so you don't think I'm being hyperbolic, I'll give the words directly out of her lying mouth. Note, this is prior to the 2017 election:

Quote:

Labour leader Jacinda Ardern has used the Labour Party campaign launch to lay out her goal of ending child poverty in New Zealand.

Do take note of where she explicitly says:

Quote:

Because when we hold ourselves to account, you can hold us to account.

I'm simply doing what she said - holding her to account.

I've shown where the government under her leadership pissed away 7 billion dollars on covid subsidies that weren't needed, as children rot in motels run by criminal gangs.

Personally, given the depth of her treachery, which is creating problems for future generations to deal with, I think my calling her a traitor is mild.

I was deeply in left-wing politics before she was born, and I have no doubt that genuinely socialist Labour leaders of the past - Norm Kirk & MJ Savage to name two - would be as disgusted as I am at the way she ignored her own stated goals to suck up to Remuera & Khandallah, and big business.

Originally Posted by pzkpfw

I stand by my comment; I made it because your appeal to definition reminded me too much of the people who try to distract from a debate on bigotry by nit-picking what "homophobia" means.

You might want to read up on logical fallacies and find out why a sensible person wouldn't use them.

[Samson]

Probably not the fault of Ardern's Mormon upbringing, but this reprise of the hoax language labeled Te Reo should remind how disgraceful post modern dissertation can lead to disintegration of common sense and the advancement of civilisation.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/the-...C4434VVNQJ36Q/

[The Atheist]

Oh sweet Jesus, what next?

Don't get me started - I'm still seething about the beatification of the disgusting Harawira filth.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Oh sweet Jesus, what next?

Please tell me that vanishing few New Zealanders believe that superstitious nonsense?

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by lionking

Please tell me that vanishing few New Zealanders believe that superstitious nonsense?

No question that it's a tiny minority that do.

Sadly, they're mostly the tiny minority that set policy. See He Puapua as an example of something no sane person would agree with, yet it's being implemented by Labour.

As no New Zealander in NZ, outside of Opposition parties, dare breathe a word against this corrupt nonsense, it was left to a Kiwi in Aussie to point out why it's wrong.

Quote:

In his report, he said "[He Puapua] is a radical Report. Its recommendations are radical. Were those recommendations to be fulfilled to any considerable degree they would undercut majoritarian democracy; they would impinge upon elements of the Rule of Law; and they would exchange newer, worse, more aristocratic constitutional arrangements for older, better, more democratic ones."

[Samson]

Please never let anyone know the building is a public library, because this would be seriously against decolonisation, which is the only thing relevant in New Zealand while Putin and Peng agree to achieve world domination.
Police states.
NZ should join forces, with this theater of the absurd described in this story

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rotorua-d...JV2KDZ7QWEFFI/

[dudalb]

Poor the Athiest.He won't have Jadren to kick around anymore.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by dudalb

Poor the Athiest.He won't have Jadren to kick around anymore.

Doesn't even know her name. Pathetic.

Also, Ardern hasn't been Prime Minister for months.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Doesn't even know her name. Pathetic.

Also, Ardern hasn't been Prime Minister for months.

Which reminds me - is there a Hipkins Years thread? I didn't see one.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Which reminds me - is there a Hipkins Years thread? I didn't see one.

It would be the Hipkins months thread.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Which reminds me - is there a Hipkins Years thread? I didn't see one.

No, and Jacinda only ever made herself thread-worthy thanks to dead mulsins and covid, I doubt there will be one.

Originally Posted by Samson

It would be the Hipkins months thread.

Ouch!

You know he's miles in front of The Fat Controller for preferred PM? And Labour has made a substantial comeback since he took over. He might well have years left.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

No, and Jacinda only ever made herself thread-worthy thanks to dead mulsins and covid, I doubt there will be one.



Ouch!

You know he's miles in front of The Fat Controller for preferred PM? And Labour has made a substantial comeback since he took over. He might well have years left.

His mother is deep in the education ministry, and he has governed the accelerating decline in children's potential.
Erica Stanford will take over. Luxon is a caretaker, not as bleak as your knee-jerk.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Samson

Erica Stanford will take over.

I'll give you 10:1 on that.

[Samson]

Notice that Kiri Allan, Marama Davidson and Elizabeth Kerekere have all demonstrated aggressive and threatening behaviors lately. All towards white Europeans, the wheels are coming off in this miserable self satisfied country IMO.

[dudalb]

I think it is clear for some people in this thread there is only one person fit to be NZ's Prime mInsiter;Themselves.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by lionking

Well the hatred of Ardern by some in this thread has been extreme and not light years away from the threats she has been receiving.

She is not far enough to the left for some people here.
Of course those people seem to want New Zealand change from a Social Democracy to some kind of Neo Soviet style state.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Samson

Notice that Kiri Allan, Marama Davidson and Elizabeth Kerekere have all demonstrated aggressive and threatening behaviors lately. All towards white Europeans, the wheels are coming off in this miserable self satisfied country IMO.

Don't panic, it's only going to get worse.

This is where we are hate speech masquerading as art - note the language is extremely NSFW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzj35NCZXrM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Of course those people seem to want New Zealand change from a Social Democracy to some kind of Neo Soviet style state.

What utter poppycock.

The depth of your ignorance of what's actually happening in NZ is deeper than the Grand Canyon, but it doesn't stop you spewing word salad.

"Those people" want to at least take some action on child poverty, but I don't expect some bloke in California to have any understanding of the problem.

[The Atheist]

And in a very mild attempt to show the results of Ardern's government, we're chronically short of medical personnel in NZ, and this is what Jacinda's policies have managed to do about it: https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/04/03/n...-since-august/

[Samson]

Here is a long report on the manner by which cunning part Maori are seizing the control and cashflows of every ocean, creek and drain.

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/...t-three-waters

[lionking]

Originally Posted by Samson

Here is a long report on the manner by which cunning part Maori are seizing the control and cashflows of every ocean, creek and drain.

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/...t-three-waters

I don’t know what you are worried about. It will be business as usual …………. once sufficient money has changed hands.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by lionking

…. once sufficient money has changed hands.

That will never happen.

If there's one thing the whole Tiriti gravy train has taught Kiwis, it's that no matter how much is given, the hands remain extended for more.

[The Atheist]

Just to reinforce why I refuse to kow-tow to Saint Jacinda, she had eight years to do something about Kiwi kids' dental health.

And here we are:

Quote:

Children needing dental surgery under general anaesthesia are instead being sent home with antibiotics and pain relief as surgeries are slashed by nearly 80%

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/hea...geries-slashed

Lucky the kids are all from poor, mainly brown, families, whose parents are stupid enough to give their kids sugary drinks, so it's not like it's a real problem.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Just to reinforce why I refuse to kow-tow to Saint Jacinda, she had eight years to do something about Kiwi kids' dental health.

And here we are:



https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/hea...geries-slashed

Lucky the kids are all from poor, mainly brown, families, whose parents are stupid enough to give their kids sugary drinks, so it's not like it's a real problem.

Teach the brown kids to read.
Ban sugar drinks.
Dental care free.
Leave "school" with a driver's licence.
Appoint me as benevolent dictator.

Job done.

[Samson]

And why do we decide before getting through the story this person is Maori and not Indian or Chinese?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/weekly...N75AN24VDYHKA/

You see the problem.
The cunning part Maori in Western suit and ties are not taking responsibility for this incomprehensibly violent part Maori.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Samson

And why do we decide before getting through the story this person is Maori and not Indian or Chinese?

That's a fairly stupid comment.

The guy's name is Eruera Peratiaki and his name is in the first sentence.

[The Atheist]

Jesus ******* Christ.

This is what New Zealand has become.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/cri...violent-attack

[psionl0]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Jesus ******* Christ.

This is what New Zealand has become.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/cri...violent-attack

Fascinating. Thanks to Ardern, a once crime free country now has crime.