Australian Politics: The Albanese Times - Page 8

lionking · 15th August 2022, 07:59 PM

I can easily imagine Morrison calling Hurley and saying “You know that $18 million I slipped in your pocket a couple of months ago? How about you swearing me into a few extra ministries, just between you and me?”

Seriously this action of Morrison, while probably not unconstitutional, was so adrift from convention, any serious GG would have resigned rather than sully the office.

I guess higher powers hold sway.

Wildy · 15th August 2022, 08:06 PM

The whole thing is dodgy. I feel like a Federal ICAC can't come fast enough.

lionking · 15th August 2022, 08:11 PM

Whoops my timeline was wrong. The grant to Hurley’s “foundation” came after most of the ministerial appointments. Which makes collusion between the two even more likely. The conversation with Hurley most likely went along the lines “Thanks mate. Where’s the bikkie tin I can drop the $18 million in”.

Hurley must go.

psionl0 · 15th August 2022, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

Well I think that Morrison has a very high opinion of his moral superiority, as do many fundamental Christians.

The idea that Morrison did what he did only because he is a fundy christian is purely a made up fairy tale. You are only throwing religion into the mix because you think that otherwise Morrison doesn't sound all that bad.

lionking · 15th August 2022, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by psionl0

The idea that Morrison did what he did only because he is a fundy christian is purely a made up fairy tale. You are only throwing religion into the mix because you think that otherwise Morrison doesn't sound all that bad.

You must not read my posts in this thread. I think that Morrison is an all-round bad PM. He is the one bringing religion into parliament. He championed the religious freedom bill to protect “people of faith”. In debating this bill he said “human beings are more than physical selves, we are also soul and spirit”.

In his maiden speech he paid tribute to the disgraced Hillsong founder Brian Houston”. He put down his election as a literal miracle. He has stated more than once that God has a plan for him. He has urged parliamentarians to pray more.

Also from his maiden speech - “After 14 years of bitter disappointments God remembered Jenny’s faithfulness and blessed us with our miracle child”

Morrison really believes that God intervenes in his life, and his faith is central to him as a person. It is why he was such a bad and dangerous PM, and I don’t think it’s a stretch for him to believe he had the god-given right to deceive both the public and the parliament about this disgraceful act to grant him multiple ministries.

Why did he keep this whole matter secret (or more correctly only between him, Hurley and their god).

psionl0 · 15th August 2022, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

You must not read my posts in this thread. I think that Morrison is an all-round bad PM. He is the one bringing religion into parliament. He championed the religious freedom bill to protect “people of faith”. In debating this bill he said “human beings are more than physical selves, we are also soul and spirit”.

In his maiden speech he paid tribute to the disgraced Hillsong founder Brian Houston”. He put down his election as a literal miracle. He has stated more than once that God has a plan for him. He has urged parliamentarians to pray more.

Also from his maiden speech - “After 14 years of bitter disappointments God remembered Jenny’s faithfulness and blessed us with our miracle child”

None of this has anything to do with the fact that he is an amoral politician.

Originally Posted by lionking

Once upon a time,
Morrison really believes that God intervenes in his life, and his faith is central to him as a person. It is why he was such a bad and dangerous PM, and I don’t think it’s a stretch for him to believe he had the god-given right to deceive both the public and the parliament about this disgraceful act to grant him multiple ministries.
And they all lived happily ever after.

ftfy.

Originally Posted by lionking

Why did he keep this whole matter secret (or more correctly only between him, Hurley and their god).

Because he is an amoral politician.

lionking · 15th August 2022, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by psionl0

None of this has anything to do with the fact that he is an amoral politician.

ftfy.

Because he is an amoral politician.

To you ftfy, do you not believe that Morrison believes god intervenes in his life? Don’t all fundy Christians believe this?

I wouldn’t call him an amoral politician. I believe he has a lot of old fashioned morals. It’s just that a lot of them should not be held by the leader of a diverse modern nation.

psionl0 · 15th August 2022, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

To you ftfy, do you not believe that Morrison believes god intervenes in his life? Don’t all fundy Christians believe this?

So what? Morrison also eats hot dinners, sleeps in a bed, has showers etc etc. You can just as easily make links between his political actions and these incidental things as you can to his incidental religiosity.

Originally Posted by lionking

I wouldn’t call him an amoral politician. I believe he has a lot of old fashioned morals. It’s just that a lot of them should not be held by the leader of a diverse modern nation.

Morrison's faith may be genuine but his actions as a politician were not.

lionking · 15th August 2022, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by psionl0

So what? Morrison also eats hot dinners, sleeps in a bed, has showers etc etc. You can just as easily make links between his political actions and these incidental things as you can to his incidental religiosity.

“Incidental”? Well I can only go on his often repeated and seemingly very sincere pronouncements. I believe his religion is very central to his being and his actions as PM. You obviously believe he is a massive and continual liar. I don’t think he’s smart enough to pull that off for years.

lionking · 15th August 2022, 10:18 PM

Psion10 I see you haven’t commented on the propriety of Morrison’s and Hurley’s actions. I’m interested in your views.

psionl0 · 15th August 2022, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

Psion10 I see you haven’t commented on the propriety of Morrison’s and Hurley’s actions. I’m interested in your views.

The GG does whatever the PM tells him to. GGs are hand selected for their willingness to not question what the PM says. (Retired soldiers usually make nice compliant GGs).

So if Morrison says, "swear me in secretly" then that is what the GG will do. You are just trying to make Hurley a part of this religious conspiracy with no evidence whatsoever.

lionking · 15th August 2022, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by psionl0

The GG does whatever the PM tells him to. GGs are hand selected for their willingness to not question what the PM says. (Retired soldiers usually make nice compliant GGs).

So if Morrison says, "swear me in secretly" then that is what the GG will do. You are just trying to make Hurley a part of this religious conspiracy with no evidence whatsoever.

One of the points I made earlier is why didn’t Hurley protest or threaten to resign at such a departure from convention? He comes out of this looking bad.

And I am making the observation that something must have motivated agreeing to such a departure - particularly the failure to gazette the appointments. I’m suggesting that a religious link (and a $18m grant) could easily be behind this.

I note you haven’t commented on the propriety of the action. You don’t have to of course. I think this is one of the biggest political scandals in recent years.

Norman Alexander · 16th August 2022, 07:09 AM

It seems clear now that Morrison is one of those God-bothers who believe sincerely that whatever THEY want or believe is what GOD wants for them to have or believe. They truly think they speak with God-given authority.

And they are wrong. It's just voices in their heads.

lionking · 16th August 2022, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

It seems clear now that Morrison is one of those God-bothers who believe sincerely that whatever THEY want or believe is what GOD wants for them to have or believe. They truly think they speak with God-given authority.

And they are wrong. It's just voices in their heads.

Indeed.

Thor 2 · 16th August 2022, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

“Incidental”? Well I can only go on his often repeated and seemingly very sincere pronouncements. I believe his religion is very central to his being and his actions as PM. You obviously believe he is a massive and continual liar. I don’t think he’s smart enough to pull that off for years.

I would also add that his inactions as a PM were influenced by his religious belief. God is in control so we don't need to worry ourselves about things like global warming.

I have observed this attitude in the religious a number of times before.

Wildy · 16th August 2022, 03:44 PM

What are you talking about? Morrison's well documented religious leanings and opinions don't mean anything. He's just a regular old run of the mill LNP member.

lionking · 16th August 2022, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Thor 2

I would also add that his inactions as a PM were influenced by his religious belief. God is in control so we don't need to worry ourselves about things like global warming.

I have observed this attitude in the religious a number of times before.

Yes, good point.

psionl0 · 16th August 2022, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by Wildy

What are you talking about? Morrison's well documented religious leanings and opinions don't mean anything. He's just a regular old run of the mill LNP member.

Correct but the objective here is to vilify Scott Morrison further and make him appear worse than he actually is. So claim (without any evidence whatsoever) that he is doing these things for the sake of his religion.

Thor 2 · 16th August 2022, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by psionl0

Correct but the objective here is to vilify Scott Morrison further and make him appear worse than he actually is. So claim (without any evidence whatsoever) that he is doing these things for the sake of his religion.

I can only assume that you've had little or no dealings with fundy Christians. For these guys, not to act according to their beliefs, is contradictory.

I suspect however, you would not accept evidence, if it was delivered to you in truckloads.

lionking · 16th August 2022, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by psionl0

Correct but the objective here is to vilify Scott Morrison further and make him appear worse than he actually is. So claim (without any evidence whatsoever) that he is doing these things for the sake of his religion.

I said before that it looks like you think Morrison is a massive liar. Is that what you think?

psionl0 · 16th August 2022, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

I said before that it looks like you think Morrison is a massive liar. Is that what you think?

Of course he is (though not necessarily about his religion). He is a politician. Just look at the pathetic excuses he comes up with for his multiple ministerial hats.

psionl0 · 16th August 2022, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Thor 2

I can only assume that you've had little or no dealings with fundy Christians.

Most fundys I have dealt with do little more than go to church on Sundays or do some "good works" (charitable donations etc).

I have never met any who said that we don't have to care about ruining the environment because "God is in charge".

psionl0 · 16th August 2022, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

I note you haven’t commented on the propriety of the action.

To be honest, I have thought about it but can't get all that excited about Scumo wearing multiple ministerial hats even though these ministerial positions were already filled.

The secrecy aspect is a little more troubling. If he concealed his appointments from his party then they should sack him and replace him with a new PM (fortunately this is no longer an issue).

As for the GG, he is expected to be purely a figurehead and I don't expect him to get all principled about it. When we become a republic, I hope that the Head of State will have a more active role.

lionking · 16th August 2022, 06:13 PM

All I can say is that if he is truthful about his religious beliefs (and I think he is) I believe they strongly influence his political decisions. His decision to take on multiple secret ministerial roles is unprecedented and I think that it’s more than fair to raise his religious beliefs as a reason. If you truely believe that god intervenes in your life and that you were chosen for your role, megalomaniacal and dictatorial decisions are (in your and god’s eyes) entirely justified.

psionl0 · 16th August 2022, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

If you truely believe that god intervenes in your life and that you were chosen for your role, megalomaniacal and dictatorial decisions are (in your and god’s eyes) entirely justified.

People at the top tend to become "megalomaniacal and dictatorial" regardless of their religious beliefs (or lack thereof). An atheist would simply find a different way to justify their actions.

lionking · 16th August 2022, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by psionl0

Most fundys I have dealt with do little more than go to church on Sundays or do some "good works" (charitable donations etc).

I have never met any who said that we don't have to care about ruining the environment because "God is in charge".

You should get out more.

https://theconversation.com/faith-an...-denial-143145

Quote:

According to a Pew Research Center poll from May 2020, while 62% of religiously unaffiliated U.S. adults agree that the Earth is warming primarily due to human action, only 35% of U.S. Protestants do – including just 24% of white evangelical Protestants.

Hillsong operates very strongly along US lines.

lionking · 16th August 2022, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by psionl0

People at the top tend to become "megalomaniacal and dictatorial" regardless of their religious beliefs (or lack thereof). An atheist would simply find a different way to justify their actions.

You must be one of the very few people who believe that Morrison is not influenced by his religion.

Wildy · 17th August 2022, 07:03 PM

Dutton orders Morrison to apologise directly to Karen Andrews over his secret appointment as Home Affairs minister.

It says a lot that he already apologised directly to Cormann and Freydenberg but doesn't think he needs to when it's Andrews.

lionking · 20th August 2022, 12:43 AM

Yes I know it’s somewhat off topic, but something I read on Twitter:

“Morrison has appointed himself Essendon coach”.

Very funny if you know anything about AFL football.

arthwollipot · 22nd August 2022, 12:12 AM

I don't really have to enumerate the ways in which Pentecostals' beliefs would influence their politics again, do I?

Okay, I'll try to find the post in the Morrison thread where I made it explicit.

arthwollipot · 22nd August 2022, 01:27 AM

Meanwhile,

Post election surge in support for Anthony Albanese’s new Labor government

Quote:

Voters have swung behind Labor with a surge of support to give the new federal government a strong lead in the community with a primary vote of 42 per cent, up from 33 per cent at the election just three months ago.

The significant shift has given Prime Minister Anthony Albanese a commanding lead over Opposition Leader Peter Dutton of 55 to 17 per cent as preferred prime minister, repeating the stunning gains for new leaders after previous elections.

With federal politics dominated by a dispute over former prime minister Scott Morrison and his decision to take five ministerial portfolios without telling parliament, the new findings show voters have cut their primary vote support for the Coalition from 36 to 28 per cent since the election.

lionking · 22nd August 2022, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Meanwhile,

Post election surge in support for Anthony Albanese’s new Labor government

Still a honeymoon.

He needs to deliver. News Ltd will not give up easily.

arthwollipot · 22nd August 2022, 05:57 PM

Two things I've noticed today:

Scott Morrison's power grab was set up by a handful of senior Coalition MPs — but none of them knew what would come next

Quote:

There is a special irony at the heart of Scott Morrison's secret accumulation of multiple ministries: it started as an exercise in decentralising power, not concentrating it.

In early March 2020, when the threat of the pandemic was becoming clear, former attorney-general Christian Porter decided to have an audit of the Commonwealth's powers, to understand how the federal government could respond to the health emergency.

All manner of worst-case scenarios were being war-gamed: What capacity was there to protect particularly vulnerable communities such as remote Indigenous townships? Were travel blockades possible? And under which legislative authority?

What powers did the Commonwealth have to call in the Australian Defence Force if coronavirus ripped through a prison? Could military personnel be asked to watch over prisoners?

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese receives rock star welcome at Sydney's Enmore Theatre

Quote:

It's not often a Prime Minister steals the show at a rock concert but Anthony Albanese certainly came close last night.

The PM received a rock star welcome at the Gang of Youths concert at Sydney's Enmore Theatre when he downed what appeared to be a beer.

The inner-west local was spotted in the balcony by revellers on the main floor before the concert began.

He was joined by his partner Jodie Haydon and Minister for the Arts Tony Burke.

The cheering crowd all turned to face Mr Albanese, prompting him to down his drink and hold up his empty cup.

He then stood up and greeted the crowd to lively applause.

This last one is interesting, given what has been happening with the Finnish PM this week.

arthwollipot · 22nd August 2022, 07:24 PM

The PM is speaking right now about the legality of Morrison appointing himself to the ministries. The Solicitor-General has stated that the Governor-General validly appointed him to those ministries, but also stated some strong criticism regarding the process, with constitutional precedents going back to 1926, and that the principle of responsible government was "fundamentally undermined" by the actions of the previous government.

arthwollipot · 22nd August 2022, 07:30 PM

There will be an independent inquiry, and future legislation to make sure something like this doesn't happen again. He has directed PM&C to publish all ministerial appointments in the Gazette.

arthwollipot · 22nd August 2022, 07:32 PM

A censure motion ~~will~~ sorry, could be considered when Parliament next sits, which will be 5-15 September.

arthwollipot · 22nd August 2022, 07:35 PM

Here it is, with proper words and everything:

Scott Morrison's appointment valid but inconsistent with convention, solicitor-general finds

Quote:

The nation's second law officer has found former prime minister Scott Morrison was validly appointed to the resources portfolio but not notifying ministers, parliament or the public "fundamentally undermined" the principles of responsible government.

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has released the much-anticipated advice on the legality of his predecessor's appointment to the resources portfolio, after first sharing it with cabinet.

The specific question put to the solicitor-general was: "Was Mr Morrison validly appointed to administer the Department of Industry, Science, Energy and Resources on 15 April 2021?"

Solicitor-general Stephen Donaghue found the appointment was valid under section 64 of the constitution.

"The governor-general, acting on the advice of the prime minister, has power under s 64 of the constitution to appoint an existing minister of state, including the prime minister, to administer an additional department of state," he said.

"The governor-general has no discretion to refuse to accept the prime minister's advice in relation to such an appointment."

psionl0 · 22nd August 2022, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I don't really have to enumerate the ways in which Pentecostals' beliefs would influence their politics again, do I?

No you don't. Wildy explained this better than I can.

arthwollipot · 22nd August 2022, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by psionl0

No you don't. Wildy explained this better than I can.

You do realise that Wildy was being sarcastic, right?

arthwollipot · 22nd August 2022, 11:29 PM

Mr Morrison has issued a statement stating that he didn't do anything wrong, but he regrets any offense he caused.

15th August 2022, 07:59 PM	#281
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 53,979	I can easily imagine Morrison calling Hurley and saying “You know that $18 million I slipped in your pocket a couple of months ago? How about you swearing me into a few extra ministries, just between you and me?” Seriously this action of Morrison, while probably not unconstitutional, was so adrift from convention, any serious GG would have resigned rather than sully the office. I guess higher powers hold sway.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

15th August 2022, 08:06 PM	#282
Wildy Adelaidean Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 11,784	The whole thing is dodgy. I feel like a Federal ICAC can't come fast enough.
	__________________

15th August 2022, 08:11 PM	#283
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 53,979	Whoops my timeline was wrong. The grant to Hurley’s “foundation” came after most of the ministerial appointments. Which makes collusion between the two even more likely. The conversation with Hurley most likely went along the lines “Thanks mate. Where’s the bikkie tin I can drop the $18 million in”. Hurley must go.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

15th August 2022, 08:28 PM	#284
psionl0 Skeptical about skeptics Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E Posts: 20,499	Originally Posted by lionking Well I think that Morrison has a very high opinion of his moral superiority, as do many fundamental Christians. The idea that Morrison did what he did only because he is a fundy christian is purely a made up fairy tale. You are only throwing religion into the mix because you think that otherwise Morrison doesn't sound all that bad.
	__________________ "The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

15th August 2022, 09:15 PM	#285
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 53,979	Originally Posted by psionl0 The idea that Morrison did what he did only because he is a fundy christian is purely a made up fairy tale. You are only throwing religion into the mix because you think that otherwise Morrison doesn't sound all that bad. You must not read my posts in this thread. I think that Morrison is an all-round bad PM. He is the one bringing religion into parliament. He championed the religious freedom bill to protect “people of faith”. In debating this bill he said “human beings are more than physical selves, we are also soul and spirit”. In his maiden speech he paid tribute to the disgraced Hillsong founder Brian Houston”. He put down his election as a literal miracle. He has stated more than once that God has a plan for him. He has urged parliamentarians to pray more. Also from his maiden speech - “After 14 years of bitter disappointments God remembered Jenny’s faithfulness and blessed us with our miracle child” Morrison really believes that God intervenes in his life, and his faith is central to him as a person. It is why he was such a bad and dangerous PM, and I don’t think it’s a stretch for him to believe he had the god-given right to deceive both the public and the parliament about this disgraceful act to grant him multiple ministries. Why did he keep this whole matter secret (or more correctly only between him, Hurley and their god).
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

15th August 2022, 09:28 PM	#286
psionl0 Skeptical about skeptics Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E Posts: 20,499	Originally Posted by lionking You must not read my posts in this thread. I think that Morrison is an all-round bad PM. He is the one bringing religion into parliament. He championed the religious freedom bill to protect “people of faith”. In debating this bill he said “human beings are more than physical selves, we are also soul and spirit”. In his maiden speech he paid tribute to the disgraced Hillsong founder Brian Houston”. He put down his election as a literal miracle. He has stated more than once that God has a plan for him. He has urged parliamentarians to pray more. Also from his maiden speech - “After 14 years of bitter disappointments God remembered Jenny’s faithfulness and blessed us with our miracle child” None of this has anything to do with the fact that he is an amoral politician. Originally Posted by lionking Once upon a time, Morrison really believes that God intervenes in his life, and his faith is central to him as a person. It is why he was such a bad and dangerous PM, and I don’t think it’s a stretch for him to believe he had the god-given right to deceive both the public and the parliament about this disgraceful act to grant him multiple ministries. And they all lived happily ever after. ftfy. Originally Posted by lionking Why did he keep this whole matter secret (or more correctly only between him, Hurley and their god). Because he is an amoral politician.
	__________________ "The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

15th August 2022, 09:35 PM	#287
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 53,979	Originally Posted by psionl0 None of this has anything to do with the fact that he is an amoral politician. ftfy. Because he is an amoral politician. To you ftfy, do you not believe that Morrison believes god intervenes in his life? Don’t all fundy Christians believe this? I wouldn’t call him an amoral politician. I believe he has a lot of old fashioned morals. It’s just that a lot of them should not be held by the leader of a diverse modern nation.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill Last edited by lionking; 15th August 2022 at 09:37 PM.

15th August 2022, 10:02 PM	#288
psionl0 Skeptical about skeptics Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E Posts: 20,499	Originally Posted by lionking To you ftfy, do you not believe that Morrison believes god intervenes in his life? Don’t all fundy Christians believe this? So what? Morrison also eats hot dinners, sleeps in a bed, has showers etc etc. You can just as easily make links between his political actions and these incidental things as you can to his incidental religiosity. Originally Posted by lionking I wouldn’t call him an amoral politician. I believe he has a lot of old fashioned morals. It’s just that a lot of them should not be held by the leader of a diverse modern nation. Morrison's faith may be genuine but his actions as a politician were not.
	__________________ "The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

15th August 2022, 10:11 PM	#289
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 53,979	Originally Posted by psionl0 So what? Morrison also eats hot dinners, sleeps in a bed, has showers etc etc. You can just as easily make links between his political actions and these incidental things as you can to his incidental religiosity. “Incidental”? Well I can only go on his often repeated and seemingly very sincere pronouncements. I believe his religion is very central to his being and his actions as PM. You obviously believe he is a massive and continual liar. I don’t think he’s smart enough to pull that off for years.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

15th August 2022, 10:18 PM	#290
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 53,979	Psion10 I see you haven’t commented on the propriety of Morrison’s and Hurley’s actions. I’m interested in your views.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

15th August 2022, 10:32 PM	#291
psionl0 Skeptical about skeptics Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E Posts: 20,499	Originally Posted by lionking Psion10 I see you haven’t commented on the propriety of Morrison’s and Hurley’s actions. I’m interested in your views. The GG does whatever the PM tells him to. GGs are hand selected for their willingness to not question what the PM says. (Retired soldiers usually make nice compliant GGs). So if Morrison says, "swear me in secretly" then that is what the GG will do. You are just trying to make Hurley a part of this religious conspiracy with no evidence whatsoever.
	__________________ "The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

15th August 2022, 10:41 PM	#292
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 53,979	Originally Posted by psionl0 The GG does whatever the PM tells him to. GGs are hand selected for their willingness to not question what the PM says. (Retired soldiers usually make nice compliant GGs). So if Morrison says, "swear me in secretly" then that is what the GG will do. You are just trying to make Hurley a part of this religious conspiracy with no evidence whatsoever. One of the points I made earlier is why didn’t Hurley protest or threaten to resign at such a departure from convention? He comes out of this looking bad. And I am making the observation that something must have motivated agreeing to such a departure - particularly the failure to gazette the appointments. I’m suggesting that a religious link (and a $18m grant) could easily be behind this. I note you haven’t commented on the propriety of the action. You don’t have to of course. I think this is one of the biggest political scandals in recent years.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

16th August 2022, 07:09 AM	#293
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 15,717	It seems clear now that Morrison is one of those God-bothers who believe sincerely that whatever THEY want or believe is what GOD wants for them to have or believe. They truly think they speak with God-given authority. And they are wrong. It's just voices in their heads.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

16th August 2022, 07:12 AM	#294
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 53,979	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander It seems clear now that Morrison is one of those God-bothers who believe sincerely that whatever THEY want or believe is what GOD wants for them to have or believe. They truly think they speak with God-given authority. And they are wrong. It's just voices in their heads. Indeed.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

16th August 2022, 03:08 PM	#295
Thor 2 Philosopher Join Date: May 2016 Location: Tiny town west of Brisbane. Posts: 7,174	Originally Posted by lionking “Incidental”? Well I can only go on his often repeated and seemingly very sincere pronouncements. I believe his religion is very central to his being and his actions as PM. You obviously believe he is a massive and continual liar. I don’t think he’s smart enough to pull that off for years. I would also add that his inactions as a PM were influenced by his religious belief. God is in control so we don't need to worry ourselves about things like global warming. I have observed this attitude in the religious a number of times before.
	__________________ Thinking is a faith hazard.

16th August 2022, 03:44 PM	#296
Wildy Adelaidean Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 11,784	What are you talking about? Morrison's well documented religious leanings and opinions don't mean anything. He's just a regular old run of the mill LNP member.
	__________________

16th August 2022, 05:08 PM	#297
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 53,979	Originally Posted by Thor 2 I would also add that his inactions as a PM were influenced by his religious belief. God is in control so we don't need to worry ourselves about things like global warming. I have observed this attitude in the religious a number of times before. Yes, good point.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

16th August 2022, 05:29 PM	#298
psionl0 Skeptical about skeptics Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E Posts: 20,499	Originally Posted by Wildy What are you talking about? Morrison's well documented religious leanings and opinions don't mean anything. He's just a regular old run of the mill LNP member. Correct but the objective here is to vilify Scott Morrison further and make him appear worse than he actually is. So claim (without any evidence whatsoever) that he is doing these things for the sake of his religion.
	__________________ "The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

16th August 2022, 05:46 PM	#299
Thor 2 Philosopher Join Date: May 2016 Location: Tiny town west of Brisbane. Posts: 7,174	Originally Posted by psionl0 Correct but the objective here is to vilify Scott Morrison further and make him appear worse than he actually is. So claim (without any evidence whatsoever) that he is doing these things for the sake of his religion. I can only assume that you've had little or no dealings with fundy Christians. For these guys, not to act according to their beliefs, is contradictory. I suspect however, you would not accept evidence, if it was delivered to you in truckloads.
	__________________ Thinking is a faith hazard.

16th August 2022, 05:50 PM	#300
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 53,979	Originally Posted by psionl0 Correct but the objective here is to vilify Scott Morrison further and make him appear worse than he actually is. So claim (without any evidence whatsoever) that he is doing these things for the sake of his religion. I said before that it looks like you think Morrison is a massive liar. Is that what you think?
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

16th August 2022, 06:02 PM	#301
psionl0 Skeptical about skeptics Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E Posts: 20,499	Originally Posted by lionking I said before that it looks like you think Morrison is a massive liar. Is that what you think? Of course he is (though not necessarily about his religion). He is a politician. Just look at the pathetic excuses he comes up with for his multiple ministerial hats.
	__________________ "The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

16th August 2022, 06:05 PM	#302
psionl0 Skeptical about skeptics Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E Posts: 20,499	Originally Posted by Thor 2 I can only assume that you've had little or no dealings with fundy Christians. Most fundys I have dealt with do little more than go to church on Sundays or do some "good works" (charitable donations etc). I have never met any who said that we don't have to care about ruining the environment because "God is in charge".
	__________________ "The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

16th August 2022, 06:11 PM	#303
psionl0 Skeptical about skeptics Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E Posts: 20,499	Originally Posted by lionking I note you haven’t commented on the propriety of the action. To be honest, I have thought about it but can't get all that excited about Scumo wearing multiple ministerial hats even though these ministerial positions were already filled. The secrecy aspect is a little more troubling. If he concealed his appointments from his party then they should sack him and replace him with a new PM (fortunately this is no longer an issue). As for the GG, he is expected to be purely a figurehead and I don't expect him to get all principled about it. When we become a republic, I hope that the Head of State will have a more active role.
	__________________ "The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

16th August 2022, 06:13 PM	#304
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 53,979	All I can say is that if he is truthful about his religious beliefs (and I think he is) I believe they strongly influence his political decisions. His decision to take on multiple secret ministerial roles is unprecedented and I think that it’s more than fair to raise his religious beliefs as a reason. If you truely believe that god intervenes in your life and that you were chosen for your role, megalomaniacal and dictatorial decisions are (in your and god’s eyes) entirely justified.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill Last edited by lionking; 16th August 2022 at 06:15 PM.

16th August 2022, 06:20 PM	#305
psionl0 Skeptical about skeptics Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E Posts: 20,499	Originally Posted by lionking If you truely believe that god intervenes in your life and that you were chosen for your role, megalomaniacal and dictatorial decisions are (in your and god’s eyes) entirely justified. People at the top tend to become "megalomaniacal and dictatorial" regardless of their religious beliefs (or lack thereof). An atheist would simply find a different way to justify their actions.
	__________________ "The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

16th August 2022, 06:23 PM	#306
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 53,979	Originally Posted by psionl0 Most fundys I have dealt with do little more than go to church on Sundays or do some "good works" (charitable donations etc). I have never met any who said that we don't have to care about ruining the environment because "God is in charge". You should get out more. https://theconversation.com/faith-an...-denial-143145 Quote: According to a Pew Research Center poll from May 2020, while 62% of religiously unaffiliated U.S. adults agree that the Earth is warming primarily due to human action, only 35% of U.S. Protestants do – including just 24% of white evangelical Protestants. Hillsong operates very strongly along US lines.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

16th August 2022, 06:25 PM	#307
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 53,979	Originally Posted by psionl0 People at the top tend to become "megalomaniacal and dictatorial" regardless of their religious beliefs (or lack thereof). An atheist would simply find a different way to justify their actions. You must be one of the very few people who believe that Morrison is not influenced by his religion.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

17th August 2022, 07:03 PM	#308
Wildy Adelaidean Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 11,784	Dutton orders Morrison to apologise directly to Karen Andrews over his secret appointment as Home Affairs minister. It says a lot that he already apologised directly to Cormann and Freydenberg but doesn't think he needs to when it's Andrews.
	__________________

20th August 2022, 12:43 AM	#309
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 53,979	Yes I know it’s somewhat off topic, but something I read on Twitter: “Morrison has appointed himself Essendon coach”. Very funny if you know anything about AFL football.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

22nd August 2022, 12:12 AM	#310
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,444	I don't really have to enumerate the ways in which Pentecostals' beliefs would influence their politics again, do I? Okay, I'll try to find the post in the Morrison thread where I made it explicit.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

22nd August 2022, 01:27 AM	#311
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,444	Meanwhile, Post election surge in support for Anthony Albanese’s new Labor government Quote: Voters have swung behind Labor with a surge of support to give the new federal government a strong lead in the community with a primary vote of 42 per cent, up from 33 per cent at the election just three months ago. The significant shift has given Prime Minister Anthony Albanese a commanding lead over Opposition Leader Peter Dutton of 55 to 17 per cent as preferred prime minister, repeating the stunning gains for new leaders after previous elections. With federal politics dominated by a dispute over former prime minister Scott Morrison and his decision to take five ministerial portfolios without telling parliament, the new findings show voters have cut their primary vote support for the Coalition from 36 to 28 per cent since the election.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

22nd August 2022, 02:36 AM	#312
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 53,979	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Meanwhile, Post election surge in support for Anthony Albanese’s new Labor government Still a honeymoon. He needs to deliver. News Ltd will not give up easily.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

22nd August 2022, 05:57 PM	#313
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,444	Two things I've noticed today: Scott Morrison's power grab was set up by a handful of senior Coalition MPs — but none of them knew what would come next Quote: There is a special irony at the heart of Scott Morrison's secret accumulation of multiple ministries: it started as an exercise in decentralising power, not concentrating it. In early March 2020, when the threat of the pandemic was becoming clear, former attorney-general Christian Porter decided to have an audit of the Commonwealth's powers, to understand how the federal government could respond to the health emergency. All manner of worst-case scenarios were being war-gamed: What capacity was there to protect particularly vulnerable communities such as remote Indigenous townships? Were travel blockades possible? And under which legislative authority? What powers did the Commonwealth have to call in the Australian Defence Force if coronavirus ripped through a prison? Could military personnel be asked to watch over prisoners? Prime Minister Anthony Albanese receives rock star welcome at Sydney's Enmore Theatre Quote: It's not often a Prime Minister steals the show at a rock concert but Anthony Albanese certainly came close last night. The PM received a rock star welcome at the Gang of Youths concert at Sydney's Enmore Theatre when he downed what appeared to be a beer. The inner-west local was spotted in the balcony by revellers on the main floor before the concert began. He was joined by his partner Jodie Haydon and Minister for the Arts Tony Burke. The cheering crowd all turned to face Mr Albanese, prompting him to down his drink and hold up his empty cup. He then stood up and greeted the crowd to lively applause. This last one is interesting, given what has been happening with the Finnish PM this week.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

22nd August 2022, 07:24 PM	#314
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,444	The PM is speaking right now about the legality of Morrison appointing himself to the ministries. The Solicitor-General has stated that the Governor-General validly appointed him to those ministries, but also stated some strong criticism regarding the process, with constitutional precedents going back to 1926, and that the principle of responsible government was "fundamentally undermined" by the actions of the previous government.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

22nd August 2022, 07:30 PM	#315
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,444	There will be an independent inquiry, and future legislation to make sure something like this doesn't happen again. He has directed PM&C to publish all ministerial appointments in the Gazette.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/