Split Thread: Musk, SpaceX and future of Tesla

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Try Australia on for size.

Public transport is most places sucks, because cities were designed to accommodate cars, not buses and trains. A few places are starting to recognise the need, but a lot more work needs to be done.

I was thinkin more o the non Urban areas in the US, which, west of the Mississippi , have vast distances between towns. Think the Outback in Australia on steroids.

[junkshop]

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Think about that for a moment. Conventional cars burn gasoline or diesel, not coal. They don't help the coal industry.
Teslas run on electricity. Which for much of the USA, is produced by burning coal.
Teslas are better for the coal industry than gas or diesel cars.

How dare you bring facts to an entrenched position fight!

You are clearly either a commie or a facist, but I am (as yet) unsure which. I will get back to you with the appropriate hyperbolic dismissal in due course.

Thank you for your patience.

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Try Australia on for size.

Public transport is most places sucks, because cities were designed to accommodate cars, not buses and trains. A few places are starting to recognise the need, but a lot more work needs to be done.

Partly agree, but to quibble slightly, I don’t think most cities were designed with cars in mind. Many of them were vandalized in the name of making them car-friendly. Here I am talking about European cities mostly which long long predate cars and didn’t have big enough roads to accommodate traffic so they were, in many cases cleared of annoying historical buildings.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by dudalb

I was thinkin more o the non Urban areas in the US, which, west of the Mississippi , have vast distances between towns. Think the Outback in Australia on steroids.

Ha. I'm not sure you realise how huge and sparsely populated Australia is.

Once you get away from the coast, there are places where you can drive for literally days without coming across a settlement. America has ten times the population density that Australia has.

But it's not a contest so let's move on.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Think about that for a moment. Conventional cars burn gasoline or diesel, not coal. They don't help the coal industry.
Teslas run on electricity. Which for much of the USA, is produced by burning coal.
Teslas are better for the coal industry than gas or diesel cars.

A little under 20% of US electricity is generated by coal.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php

It's a little less than the amount generated by renewables, a little more than that generated by nuclear.

These figures are from the EIA and only consider generating units of at least 1MW so likely the renewables figure is understated due to home or small scale solar and/or wind.

[jeremyp]

Originally Posted by dudalb

Because outside a few major cities, PT in the US sucks.
And I don't know if you could ever have a ecnomical PT system for parts of the US because the distances are so great.

That isn’t the problem at all. Most people live in cities and most of their travel is in the city in which they live. You could easily build good public transport systems in the cities and just accept that the relatively few people in rural areas will always need cars.

Unfortunately, American cities are almost always designed for cars but it’s not going to change as long as Americans are whining about how big their country is.

[The Don]

Not Just Bikes just released a video on SUVs and light trucks.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

tl;dr they're bad

[wareyin]

Originally Posted by The Don

Not Just Bikes just released a video on SUVs and light trucks.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

tl;dr they're bad

Er...wrong thread?

[The Don]

Very negative (likely biased) view of Tesla's future prospects.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

tl;dr they aren't particularly well made, innovative or priced and they're alienating their customer base with poor quality and broken promises - and Elon Musk is a poopy-head.

[jimbob]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...tesla-driving/

He's an idiot

Quote:

Musk was unconvinced and overruled his engineers. In May 2021 Tesla announced it was eliminating radar on new cars. Soon after, the company began disabling radar in cars already on the road. The result, according to interviews with nearly a dozen former employees and test drivers, safety officials and other experts, was an uptick in crashes, near misses and other embarrassing mistakes by Tesla vehicles suddenly deprived of a critical sensor.

[jimbob]

It is a rather unconventional approach to developing a new technological capability. First get the cost down then try to solve the technical issues.

There is a reason why most other new technologies are over engineered to deal with unknowns and sold with a premium.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by jimbob

It is a rather unconventional approach to developing a new technological capability. First get the cost down then try to solve the technical issues.

There is a reason why most other new technologies are over engineered to deal with unknowns and sold with a premium.

I guess that's part of the Elon Musk mindset. If you do the usual then you get the usual results, what is needed is the unusual.

• So like with Twitter, fire a bunch of people, as the remaining staff to pick up the slack and just deal with the fallout.
• Like this, use disruptor techniques to force the hidebound engineering teams to innovate.
• Consistently over-promise and under-deliver to keep your customer base keen.

Now I might think that these were stupid but I'm not a Tony Stark style disruptor/innovator.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by The Don

I guess that's part of the Elon Musk mindset. If you do the usual then you get the usual results, what is needed is the unusual.

• So like with Twitter, fire a bunch of people, as the remaining staff to pick up the slack and just deal with the fallout.
• Like this, use disruptor techniques to force the hidebound engineering teams to innovate.
• Consistently over-promise and under-deliver to keep your customer base keen.

Now I might think that these were stupid but I'm not a Tony Stark style disruptor/innovator.

From my previous link

Quote:

“No one believed me that working for Elon was the way it was until they saw how he operated Twitter,” Bernal said, calling Twitter “just the tip of the iceberg on how he operates Tesla.”

[jeremyp]

Originally Posted by The Don

I guess that's part of the Elon Musk mindset. If you do the usual then you get the usual results, what is needed is the unusual.

• So like with Twitter, fire a bunch of people, as the remaining staff to pick up the slack and just deal with the fallout.
• Like this, use disruptor techniques to force the hidebound engineering teams to innovate.
• Consistently over-promise and under-deliver to keep your customer base keen.

Now I might think that these were stupid but I'm not a Tony Stark style disruptor/innovator.

Neither is Elon Musk. Tony Stark was capable of delivering on his promises, sometimes with spectacular and chaotic consequences.

[jeremyp]

I have to say that discontinuing radar on your new cars is one thing, but turning it off on cars you have already delivered is definitely a dick move.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by jeremyp

I have to say that discontinuing radar on your new cars is one thing, but turning it off on cars you have already delivered is definitely a dick move.

Entirely on brand.

Especially if it turns out that there are legal ramifications for having cars sold as "with radar" that are no longer with working radar due to nothing more than a whim.

[jeremyp]

The latest good news on Tesla

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...es-of-intimacy

It seems that you have no expectation of privacy when you are in or near a Tesla vehicle.

[jeremyp]

Oh dear.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/05...ty-complaints/

Quote:

The German publication Handelsblatt is in possession of more than 23,000 internal files and documents from Tesla after an employee leaked the data. The files include personal information on more than 100,000 current and former employees, as well as thousands of reports of problems with Tesla's advanced driving assistance systems, Autopilot, and "Full Self-Driving."

The documents show that Tesla spent a lot of time and energy trying to cover up issues.

[The Great Zaganza]

Originally Posted by jeremyp

Oh dear.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/05...ty-complaints/



The documents show that Tesla spent a lot of time and energy trying to cover up issues.

no wonder they didn't have the time or resources the actually fix the problems.

[Roger Ramjets]

Originally Posted by The Don

Very negative (likely biased) view of Tesla's future prospects.

tl;dr they aren't particularly well made, innovative or priced and they're alienating their customer base with poor quality and broken promises - and Elon Musk is a poopy-head.

Thanks for the summation. No point watching the video if that's their angle, since it is obvious lies. Whatever else they may be, Teslas are definitely innovative. But being innovative is the whole reason people hate on them!

If Tesla was just another gas car maker nobody would give a damn. Nobody cared when the wheels were literally coming off Toyota's latest electric cars. Nobody cares that they have just decided to go all in on hydrogen powered engines. Nobody cares that Toyota's debt of $217.50 billion is the largest of any car manufacturer in the world, and their sales in critical markets are dropping.

Nobody cares that Volkswagen, who got caught cheating on emissions tests because the engineers couldn't deliver what management demanded, are a close second with $192 billion debt.

Nobody cares that Ford was ranked 18th out 24 brands surveyed by Consumer Reports last year, dropping 4 points from the year before. Just this year they recalled 1.3 million vehicles for a brake hose issue, and 462,000 for a faulty rear view camera. In 2020 they issued 65 recalls affecting more than 8.6 million vehicles. And nobody is getting worked up about it - because they aren't Tesla.

[Lplus]

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

Thanks for the summation. No point watching the video if that's their angle, since it is obvious lies. Whatever else they may be, Teslas are definitely innovative. But being innovative is the whole reason people hate on them!

If Tesla was just another gas car maker nobody would give a damn. Nobody cared when the wheels were literally coming off Toyota's latest electric cars. Nobody cares that they have just decided to go all in on hydrogen powered engines. Nobody cares that Toyota's debt of $217.50 billion is the largest of any car manufacturer in the world, and their sales in critical markets are dropping.

Nobody cares that Volkswagen, who got caught cheating on emissions tests because the engineers couldn't deliver what management demanded, are a close second with $192 billion debt.

Nobody cares that Ford was ranked 18th out 24 brands surveyed by Consumer Reports last year, dropping 4 points from the year before. Just this year they recalled 1.3 million vehicles for a brake hose issue, and 462,000 for a faulty rear view camera. In 2020 they issued 65 recalls affecting more than 8.6 million vehicles. And nobody is getting worked up about it - because they aren't Tesla.

People hate on them because they were, and still are, arrogant. Furthermore, they generated a cult following, so that's a double reason to hate on them. No outsider likes an arrogant cult.

[jeremyp]

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

Thanks for the summation. No point watching the video if that's their angle, since it is obvious lies. Whatever else they may be, Teslas are definitely innovative. But being innovative is the whole reason people hate on them!

Well, they were innovative ten years ago.

Quote:

Nobody cares that Ford was ranked 18th out 24 brands surveyed by Consumer Reports last year, dropping 4 points from the year before. Just this year they recalled 1.3 million vehicles for a brake hose issue, and 462,000 for a faulty rear view camera. In 2020 they issued 65 recalls affecting more than 8.6 million vehicles. And nobody is getting worked up about it - because they aren't Tesla.

That's right. If Tesla was just another car maker, nobody would care very much about the issues with them, except the owners. The reason people get worked up about Tesla is that it is run by Elon Musk, who is a hateful ********.

[Roger Ramjets]

Originally Posted by Lplus

People hate on them because they were, and still are, arrogant. Furthermore, they generated a cult following, so that's a double reason to hate on them. No outsider likes an arrogant cult.

The cult of arrogant Luddites who hate Tesla is far larger. This is the cult that wont lift a finger to prevent the total destruction of our environment that they are causing. And they've been hating on Musk ever since it looked like Tesla might actually get somewhere.

A history of Tesla hate

Quote:

May 16, 2013

Tesla reported its first-ever profitable quarter last week, and its stock continues to go bonkers.

It's an incredible feat.

Business Insider's Henry Blodget summed it up thusly: "What Tesla has accomplished over the past decade is extraordinary... So far, anyway, Tesla is a great American success story, and everyone should be rooting for it."

Just a few weeks ago, we were calling out CEO Elon Musk for misconstruing its pricing scheme. And in February, we had concurred with the New York Times' pessimistic take on electric cars.

Now we know better.

We're not the only ones who are eating crow. Lots of people banked on Tesla failing.

The rips have come in four basic flavors:

• The cars are more science experiment than automobile.
• Elon Musk is too quirky to create a mass-produced product.
• The company is overly reliant on subsidies.
• Teslas are too expensive.

Tesla has basically beat back each.

Let's look at the idea that Tesla couldn't design a car that felt like a car. The vanguard of that charge came from Dan Neil, who while still with the LA Times called the Model S "a glorified golf cart"...

Tesla basically responded by saying that as long as you get the technology right, the style doesn't really matter. Musk leveled this exact charge at rival Henrik Fisker:

...he is a designer or stylist… he thinks the reason we don’t have electric cars is for lack of styling. This is not the reason. It’s fundamentally a technology problem. At the same time, you need to make it look good and feel good, because otherwise you’re going to have an impaired product. But just making something look like an electric car does not make it an electric car.

Another issue preventing many from seeing Tesla's potential was Musk himself, who's proved to be a bit of an oddball over the years...
"Musk, put simply, is a little bit weird and always has been," author Carl Hoffman wrote in Smithsonian a few years ago. "What appears brash self-confidence is simply precocious intelligence and a strangely literal mind mixed with a deep urge to change the world."

But those criticisms almost sound quite rational compared to the average hater's tirade.

Many people don't want the world to change. The hatred against Musk was born out of a hatred for electric cars in general, which is just part of a hatred towards recognizing the need to halt Global Warming. Why? Because even just admitting we have a problem implies that we are a part of the problem, and might have to change our lifestyles in some small way. Nobody likes to be told that, and the reaction was visceral.

The fact that Tesla beat the odds and became successful only served to get the haters even more upset. Now it's not just theoretical. Tesla has shown other auto makers that it is a force to be reckoned with and they had better get onboard now if they want to survive. Governments around the world have mandated an electric future where gas cars will be banned or heavily taxed - the haters' worst nightmare!

Yes, Musk is a bit weird, and being successful has made him more quirky and a bit arrogant. That's what success tends to do to people in a capitalist system. But if he was just a quirky maker of space rockets or gas cars nobody would care. Because it's not Musk they are really upset about.

[Roger Ramjets]

Originally Posted by jeremyp

The reason people get worked up about Tesla is that it is run by Elon Musk, who is a hateful ********.

Really, that's the only reason? In that case why aren't we hearing anything about the hateful ********'s who run other businesses?

You can pretty much bet that the head of any large corporation (and a lot of smaller businesses) is an arrogant hateful ********. The fact that 70 percent of America's top executives are affiliated with the Republican Party is enough to tell you that.

[Roger Ramjets]

Originally Posted by jeremyp

Well, they were innovative ten years ago.

And still are today. Your implication that they aren't betrays a distinct lack of knowledge on your part - or is it deliberate ignorance?

Toyota Engineers After Tesla Model Y Teardown: "A Work Of Art"

Quote:

Mar 01, 2023

Toyota is trying to understand what Tesla is doing right, and its engineers recently conducted a teardown study of the Tesla Model Y, according to a report from Automotive News.

What they found went beyond exposing key technological secrets of the world's best-selling electric vehicle model; engineers were reportedly stunned by the Model Y's simplistic yet efficient vehicle structure built with an advanced manufacturing prowess.

"Taking the skin off the Model Y, it was truly a work of art. It's unbelievable," said one Toyota executive who analyzed the Tesla part by part. They were particularly amazed by how different the latest versions of the Model Y were under the skin compared to earlier versions that looked the same on the outside.

Manufacturing breakthroughs like the use of giga casting to eliminate countless parts and brackets, and the structural battery pack that acts as the car's floor itself were singled out by Toyota engineers.

According to their estimates shared with Automotive News, Tesla's approach eliminated hundreds of parts and up to 220 pounds (100 kilograms), while increasing battery range and slashing overall costs.

One executive said, "It's a whole different manufacturing philosophy," while another added, “We need a new platform designed as a blank-sheet EV." Those are stunning admissions coming from executives of Toyota, a company renowned for its designed-for-manufacturing expertise.

The teardown showed how far behind some old-guard automakers like Toyota really are when it comes to EVs.

Your hatred of Musk (or is it EV's in general?) is blinding you. Tesla has done more innovation in the last 5 years than other automakers have done in 20. Much of that is due to Elon Musk, who questions conventional wisdom and pushes his engineers to come up with more innovative solutions. That philosophy has its risks, but it's how we get real progress.

[jeremyp]

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

Really, that's the only reason? In that case why aren't we hearing anything about the hateful ********'s who run other businesses?

You can pretty much bet that the head of any large corporation (and a lot of smaller businesses) is an arrogant hateful ********. The fact that 70 percent of America's top executives are affiliated with the Republican Party is enough to tell you that.

Elon Musk is unique in that there are many people who think he’s the new Messiah. Other billionaires either keep a low profile or are obvious *****. Nobody tries to leverage their cult of personality like Musk does.

Electric cars, by the way, are not going to save us. If you think Musk is some sort of crusader for the environment, you are as deluded as his fanboys.

[jeremyp]

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

And still are today. Your implication that they aren't betrays a distinct lack of knowledge on your part - or is it deliberate ignorance?

Toyota Engineers After Tesla Model Y Teardown: "A Work Of Art"

Your hatred of Musk (or is it EV's in general?) is blinding you. Tesla has done more innovation in the last 5 years than other automakers have done in 20. Much of that is due to Elon Musk, who questions conventional wisdom and pushes his engineers to come up with more innovative solutions. That philosophy has its risks, but it's how we get real progress.

Tesla has done no innovation in the last five years. They’ve only produced about one model in that time.

Your love of Musk is blinding you.

[Lplus]

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

The cult of arrogant Luddites who hate Tesla is far larger. This is the cult that wont lift a finger to prevent the total destruction of our environment that they are causing. And they've been hating on Musk ever since it looked like Tesla might actually get somewhere.

A history of Tesla hateBut those criticisms almost sound quite rational compared to the average hater's tirade.

Many people don't want the world to change. The hatred against Musk was born out of a hatred for electric cars in general, which is just part of a hatred towards recognizing the need to halt Global Warming. Why? Because even just admitting we have a problem implies that we are a part of the problem, and might have to change our lifestyles in some small way. Nobody likes to be told that, and the reaction was visceral.

The fact that Tesla beat the odds and became successful only served to get the haters even more upset. Now it's not just theoretical. Tesla has shown other auto makers that it is a force to be reckoned with and they had better get onboard now if they want to survive. Governments around the world have mandated an electric future where gas cars will be banned or heavily taxed - the haters' worst nightmare!

Yes, Musk is a bit weird, and being successful has made him more quirky and a bit arrogant. That's what success tends to do to people in a capitalist system. But if he was just a quirky maker of space rockets or gas cars nobody would care. Because it's not Musk they are really upset about.

Well, whatabouthat!

[Fast Eddie B]

Originally Posted by jeremyp

Tesla has done no innovation in the last five years.

That is, quite frankly, ridiculous. There’s constant innovation across their existing product line. Every software update refines or adds new features which improve the driver experience and enhance safety. And, under the skin, manufacturing processes are being refined, often in an innovative manner that other manufacturers are only now beginning to copy. Plus, we have the Semi on the road now, with the CyberTruck on the horizon, and other new or refined models in the queue.

Like RogerRamjets said, there seems to be a lot of motivated reasoning and/or willful ignorance going on here.

[jeremyp]

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B

That is, quite frankly, ridiculous. There’s constant innovation across their existing product line. Every software update refines or adds new features which improve the driver experience and enhance safety.

People don't normally call software updates "innovation".

Quote:

And, under the skin, manufacturing processes are being refined, often in an innovative manner that other manufacturers are only now beginning to copy.

Ha ha. That is hilarious. Thy tried to innovate with the manufacturing process for their Model 3. It nearly destroyed Tesla. It turned out that the other manufacturers really did know what they were doing.

Quote:

Plus, we have the Semi on the road now, with the CyberTruck on the horizon, and other new or refined models in the queue.

Tesla Semi: announced six years ago

Cybertruck: announced four years ago.

Technically, yes Cybertruck was "innovated" less than five years ago. However, it's really just another BEV so the level of innovation seems to be "let's have a new wacky body style".

Apart from the few semis delivered to Pepsico, neither vehicle has really started customer production. On the other hand Volvo has an electric semi you can buy now and Ford has an electric truck you can buy now.

Quote:

Like RogerRamjets said, there seems to be a lot of motivated reasoning and/or willful ignorance going on here.

I certainly agree with that. Elon Musk seems to have this bizarre hold over his fans so they can't see things objectively.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by Lplus

People hate on them because they were, and still are, arrogant. Furthermore, they generated a cult following, so that's a double reason to hate on them. No outsider likes an arrogant cult.

This. Like Apple the Tesla fanboys have little knowledge of alternatives and are easily blinded by hype and lies.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B

That is, quite frankly, ridiculous. There’s constant innovation across their existing product line. Every software update refines or adds new features which improve the driver experience and enhance safety. And, under the skin, manufacturing processes are being refined, often in an innovative manner that other manufacturers are only now beginning to copy. Plus, we have the Semi on the road now, with the CyberTruck on the horizon, and other new or refined models in the queue.

Like RogerRamjets said, there seems to be a lot of motivated reasoning and/or willful ignorance going on here.

[TurkeysGhost]

Originally Posted by catsmate

This. Like Apple the Tesla fanboys have little knowledge of alternatives and are easily blinded by hype and lies.

The EV market is becoming increasingly crowded by companies that actually know how to manufacture cars in high quantities. Whatever advantage Tesla had from being an early player in this market is rapidly waning.

[Gulliver Foyle]

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B

That is, quite frankly, ridiculous. There’s constant innovation across their existing product line. Every software update refines or adds new features which improve the driver experience and enhance safety. And, under the skin, manufacturing processes are being refined, often in an innovative manner that other manufacturers are only now beginning to copy. Plus, we have the Semi on the road now, with the CyberTruck on the horizon, and other new or refined models in the queue.

Like RogerRamjets said, there seems to be a lot of motivated reasoning and/or willful ignorance going on here.

Like the software update that innovated radar off the self driving functionality?

Oh wait that made self-driving even worse and all because Musk is a three year old spoilt brat in a man's body who can't take correcton when he blurts out something idiotic.

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B

That is, quite frankly, ridiculous. There’s constant innovation across their existing product line. Every software update refines or adds new features which improve the driver experience and enhance safety.

I guess it depends on how you define "innovation". Most people are looking for major changes... something that might go from "that's an interesting feature I can take or leave" to "This is a game changer".

Early on Tesla was very innovative. Long range electric vehicles, a unique charging network. Now a lot of their "innovation" seems like just tinkering. (Yes they may be improving things, but not in a "game changer" way.)

Quote:

Plus, we have the Semi on the road now, with the CyberTruck on the horizon, and other new or refined models in the queue.

Tesla was supposed to begin production on the semi as early as 2019, but only delivered their first ones in late 2022. Likewise the Cybertruck has seen its production pushed back several years.

Meanwhile, BYD Auto has been selling EV semis in the U.S. in 2018 (with other manufacturers to follow soon). And Ford is already selling an electric version of their pickup.

And wasn't Tesla supposed to be developing a lower priced version of their vehicle for people with more.... limited budgets? Yet other companies (such as Nissan) have been selling lower priced EV cars for years.

Tesla seems to have a habit of over-promising and under-delivering. Which admittedly other companies have done too, its just that because of the personalities involved and the nature of Tesla's business model, it seems to be much more pronounced.

[Bogative]

The Tesla model Y became the world's best-selling car for Q1 of this year. Over 267,000 units were sold and that's only one model.

The manufacturer who sold the 2nd most amount of total EVs in the same time period was GM with "over 20,000 units" sold.

Obviously Tesla with Elon Musk as it's CEO is a total **** show and the worst auto manufacture ever… or something. Apartheid!

https://www.pcmag.com/news/tesla-mod...r-last-quarter

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/04...ne-else-doing/


ETA: Elon Musk is a poopy-headed crypto-fascist.

[lobosrul5]

Originally Posted by Bogative

The Tesla model Y became the world's best-selling car for Q1 of this year. Over 267,000 units were sold and that's only one model.

The manufacturer who sold the 2nd most amount of total EVs in the same time period was GM with "over 20,000 units" sold.

Obviously Tesla with Elon Musk as it's CEO is a total **** show and the worst auto manufacture ever… or something. Apartheid!

https://www.pcmag.com/news/tesla-mod...r-last-quarter

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/04...ne-else-doing/


ETA: Elon Musk is a poopy-headed crypto-fascist.

Your links just told half the story, here is the other half:

Since January 2022, for example, Tesla's share of the EV market fell from 72% to 54% — and it will likely slide below 50% in the next month or two, says Tom Libby, associate director of industry analysis at S&P Global Mobility.

Reality check: Less than 1% of the 279 million cars and light trucks on American roads are electric.

And 18% slide in marketshare in a few months is what people in the business world call "poop".

ETA: and I went car shopping over the weekend. The pure electric EV's are sitting around in pretty showcases in the dealerships collecting dust with hardly anyone buying them, while gasoline/MHEV's are sold out. EV's sales are probably going to hit a ceiling in the US pretty soon unless their prices come way down or gas prices go way up. Most of the people with the money to burn to cut carbon emission versus it actually making financial sense probably already have an PHEV or BEV.

[Beerina]

He was a darling of a political faction for many years, because he pushed EV off the ground.

Then he had the temerity to have a political opinion, or not like corporate censorship at the behest, or threat of, politicians threatening section 230, whatevs.


So the order was dropped into the echo chamber, he is no longer a good guy, and you are ordered to look askanse on him.

This was done by automata. Had he doubled down on censorship, you'd be crying how glad you are he was born.

If I have missed anything important, or there are any inaccuracies, let me know.

I would like to live on the street JigglyPuff.

[jadebox]

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

ETA: and I went car shopping over the weekend. The pure electric EV's are sitting around in pretty showcases in the dealerships collecting dust with hardly anyone buying them, while gasoline/MHEV's are sold out.

I have been looking at buying a new(er) EV. It isn't a great time to buy. Manufacturers are limiting sales in some areas because they can't meet demand and dealers are selling new ones at more than MSRP and ones a year or two old for what they originally sold for new.

I expect the situation to change later in the year, though, as more models become available and supply issues are resolved. I can wait.

[Roger Ramjets]

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

[i]Since January 2022, for example, Tesla's share of the EV market fell from 72% to 54% — and it will likely slide below 50% in the next month or two, says Tom Libby, associate director of industry analysis at S&P Global Mobility.

Even if true, so what? This was Tesla's goal from the start!

Quote:

Reality check: Less than 1% of the 279 million cars and light trucks on American roads are electric....

ETA: and I went car shopping over the weekend. The pure electric EV's are sitting around in pretty showcases in the dealerships collecting dust with hardly anyone buying them, while gasoline/MHEV's are sold out.

We are so screwed.

Luckily however, the US isn't the whole world. In China 25% of new cars sold are electric, and tighter regulations (which were delayed to gave car makers more time to get with the program) are going to make it close to 100%. Hundreds of thousands of gas cars are sitting around unsold because they don't meet the upcoming regulations. This is good news because China is currently the biggest emitter of greenhouse gasses. Bad news for foreign automakers making those cars in China though.

Legacy auto faces disaster in China with unsellable cars as pollution crunch looms

Quote:

Potentially millions of petrol and diesel cars may about to become unsellable in China as the country implements new vehicle emissions standards, and as EV demand booms. With China already experiencing a car inventory crisis, the next three months could spell disaster for some legacy auto companies...

China Auto Dealers Chamber of Commerce (CADCC) posted an article on March 23 on WeChat saying that dealers could be left with hundreds of thousands of non-compliant unsellable petrol and diesel vehicles once China’s new emission standard is implemented in July....

In the first two months of the year, sales of Japanese brands in China have dropped by 40% year-on-year. German and Korean brands have dropped by around 20% while US brands have dropped 12.5%.

Meanwhile, Chinese brands have held steady with losses of ICE sales being offset with increased EV sales domestically.

And this trend is accelerating rapidly. EV output in China totalled 7 million units in 2022, an increase of 97% on 2021, while sales of electric vehicles rose by 93%.

Could the Chinese inventory crisis lead to a broader collapse?

The German and Japanese car giants are also two of the most indebted companies in the world, both with almost $US200 billion of debt and highly questionable valuations on their internal combustion factory assets.

An inventory glut of unsellable vehicles in the world’s largest car market is the last thing these companies need and with ICE vehicles sales plummeting, it’s difficult to see how they will survive.