'Empty shelves with absolutely no books'

[Graham2001]

I'm pretty sure this was not what the drafters of the Ontario DEI plan intended.. But then as they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Quote:

Harry Potter, The Hunger Games and Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry.
Those are all examples of books Reina Takata says she can no longer find in her public high school library in Mississauga, Ont., which she visits on her lunch hour most days.


In May, Takata says the shelves at Erindale Secondary School were full of books, but she noticed that they had gradually started to disappear. When she returned to school this fall, things were more stark.


"This year, I came into my school library and there are rows and rows of empty shelves with absolutely no books," said Takata, who started Grade 10 last week.


She estimates more than 50 per cent of her school's library books are gone.
In the spring, Takata says students were told by staff that "if the shelves look emptier right now it's because we have to remove all books [published] prior to 2008."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...ding-1.6964332

[jt512]

Originally Posted by Graham2001

I'm pretty sure this was not what the drafters of the Ontario DEI plan intended.. But then as they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I think you're giving too much credit to the drafters of the Ontario DEI plan.

[Beerina]

Free Fahrenheit 451s all around. And have an Emperor's New Clothes while you're at it.

[PitPat]

It's pretty cute how Canada has finally caught up with the US about banning books that corrupt our vulnerable youth in public schools.

[TheGoldcountry]

All the scary books that I read when I was young that a lot of people said had "silly things that could never happen" are now starting to happen.

Forget ever getting "Star Trek," in our future, it's going to be "Fahrenheit 451", "The Handmaid's Tale", and "The Road."

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Most interestingly, the claim is that this is somehow increasing diversity, equity and inclusion.

[TheGoldcountry]

nm

[PitPat]

No it will not. Look, we're all the same co-equal animals on this crazy world (but some are more equal than others).

[Thermal]

So if I have this right, they were aiming to review anything published before 2008 to make sure it wasn't off message, but someone went all cowboy and just removed everything published before 2008?

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Thermal

So if I have this right, they were aiming to review anything published before 2008 to make sure it wasn't off message, but someone went all cowboy and just removed everything published before 2008?

Cuts right to the chase, that does.

[Lplus]

Originally Posted by Thermal

So if I have this right, they were aiming to review anything published before 2008 to make sure it wasn't off message, but someone went all cowboy and just removed everything published before 2008?

Who has the time to review every pre 2008 book in a library then, more importantly, have to defend their decision every time there's a complaint about one of the remaining books not being totally inclusive etc.

Far easier to just junk the lot - no way anyone can complain about a book if it isn't there.

[Thermal]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Cuts right to the chase, that does.

Just...can't figure out how someone screws up at that magnitude, and simultaneously no one ignores it saying "obvious typo is obvious".

[jt512]

Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot

Most interestingly, the claim is that this is somehow increasing diversity, equity and inclusion.

Yes, diversity and inclusion through forced ideological conformity. It's pure Orwell.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Thermal

Just...can't figure out how someone screws up at that magnitude, and simultaneously no one ignores it saying "obvious typo is obvious".

I'm not sure it is a big screwup, in the context of what these people are trying to accomplish. If the premise is that everything before 2008 is suspect, there's something to be said for just going clean slate.

This way, they only have to consider arguments for whichever pre-2008 books someone actually wants to argue for. That's got to be a lot cheaper than having to consider arguments for every single pre-2008 book currently on their shelves. It also almost completely eliminates the risk of impressionable young minds getting the Wrong Impresssion, while the Great Work slowly proceeds.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot

Most interestingly, the claim is that this is somehow increasing diversity, equity and inclusion.

Originally Posted by jt512

Yes, diversity and inclusion through forced ideological conformity. It's pure Orwell.

The argument seems pretty simple, in this case: The pre-2008 corpus is so extremely weighted towards Old White Dudes (or whatever the Out Group is), that eliminating it completely greatly improves the balance of diverse voices being heard.

[Thermal]

Almost afraid to ask, but did something happen in 2008 that made it a Declaration of Independence kind of moment or was it more a spitball approximation of the moment of cultural conformity?

[marting]

When I was in college DEI meant something quite different.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Thermal

Almost afraid to ask, but did something happen in 2008 that made it a Declaration of Independence kind of moment or was it more a spitball approximation of the moment of cultural conformity?

2008 was the year Barack Obama was elected the first woman black president of the United States.

[dann]

What do the book burners have against The Hunger Games?

[Thermal]

Originally Posted by theprestige

2008 was the year Barack Obama was elected the first woman black president of the United States.

The first Twilite Movie was released in 2008. I guess we all herald our cultural turning points differently.

[mumblethrax]

Originally Posted by Thermal

Almost afraid to ask, but did something happen in 2008 that made it a Declaration of Independence kind of moment or was it more a spitball approximation of the moment of cultural conformity?

I'm pretty sure Canada is still waiting for their Declaration of Independence moment.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by dann

What do the book burners have against The Hunger Games?

Better safe than sorry, obviously. Why is this "clean slate" approach so hard for people to grasp?

[Thermal]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Better safe than sorry, obviously. Why is this "clean slate" approach so hard for people to grasp?

I feel noticeably less clean over the last decade and a half.

[Pope130]

My shelves would be considerably more than half empty. No Heinlein, Asimov, Wells, Twain, Shakespeare, Doyle, Piper, or Churchill.

[Norman Alexander]

I suspect the 2008 date was because the books themselves were probably so tatty and worn that they wanted to replace them with newer, more recently printed copies. Content probably had nothing to do with it, just the torn covers and pages.

[Thermal]

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

I suspect the 2008 date was because the books themselves were probably so tatty and worn that they wanted to replace them with newer, more recently printed copies. Content probably had nothing to do with it, just the torn covers and pages.

Wouldn't they have had replacements in before leaving the school library shelves bare at the start of the school year? Or inventoried the older books to see if the spines were even broken yet before replacing?

[Norman Alexander]

Originally Posted by Thermal

Wouldn't they have had replacements in before leaving the school library shelves bare at the start of the school year? Or inventoried the older books to see if the spines were even broken yet before replacing?

Heh, you are assuming government departments use a logical approach. Silly boy.

[PitPat]

Originally Posted by Thermal

Wouldn't they have had replacements in before leaving the school library shelves bare at the start of the school year? Or inventoried the older books to see if the spines were even broken yet before replacing?

There must have been a discussion about the cutoff.

2006, too early. How about 2010? Nope that's too recent.

Next vote, 2008.

[Checkmite]

Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot

Most interestingly, the claim is that this is somehow increasing diversity, equity and inclusion.

In the same way American states banning books by black authors about historical racism from school libraries is framed as a protection of racial equality.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

It appears someone was just bit too zealous. Though Google shows that the region has a bit of a history censoring books. So this story is not exactly new.

The Minister of Education (Lecce) says, "That's not what we meant you to do!"

Lecce, Ford order end to book banning at Peel public schools

Note that Ford is the somewhat to the right premier of the province. I did not find a single report of anyone supporting the book removals. Though, given the state of the World, I guess I could if I searched a little harder.

[Ron Obvious]

Naturally, if the books included material antithetical to modern notions of DEI, they need to be removed (burnt really) as containing racism and wrongthink. If they didn't, they would be unnecessary and could be removed as well.

The result is empty shelves.

[PitPat]

Was gonna say it was just a local brouhaha in Mississauga (which believe it or not I've been to a few times). All wearing egg on their faces and want to get it this over with quick.

Not to say this topic might not be over.

[marting]

When I was a kid, the schools didn't have libraries until high school. And the school library was pretty pathetic. I never used it after going there once.

OTOH, the town had a reasonable public library. Reasonable collection of books though their selection in STEM was limited. I wound up going to the Boston Museum of Science library which had an extensive selection. And they let you check out books for 4 weeks as opposed to the 2 at the public library. It was a 45 minute bus/train ride but I would do a run every 3 weeks or so. A life changing experience was checking out an abacus in the summer between 6th and 7th grade. That and a 7 place table of logs greatly expanded my interest in various analytic techniques. Much fun switching from math to chemistry, to physics then back again. I was very much DIY learner and hated school. Mostly slept or daydreamed in class.

[grmcdorman]

Mississauga - which is where I live - has an excellent public library. You can even rent time on a 3D printer from the library. I haven't looked at which school did this, or other details, but censoring in the school libraries - particularly like this - is pretty pointless.

[Brainster]

Originally Posted by Thermal

Just...can't figure out how someone screws up at that magnitude, and simultaneously no one ignores it saying "obvious typo is obvious".

Pretty simple, really. The order goes out that the librarians must perform a sensitivity review of all books published before 2008. Librarians decide to remove all books published before then pending the review process, so they don't get blamed when some trans kid picks up Silence of the Lambs.

[jt512]

Originally Posted by grmcdorman

I haven't looked at which school did this, or other details, but censoring in the school libraries - particularly like this - is pretty pointless.

It has a point, a nefarious one.

[Orphia Nay]

Are they only keeping books *first* published after 2008? That seems radical and objectionable.

But I can kind of see the point of throwing out manky copies of the Diary of Anne Frank, so long as a newer edition can be borrowed either from that library or through an inter-library loan.

I think it's just meant to be the latter.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Thermal

So if I have this right, they were aiming to review anything published before 2008 to make sure it wasn't off message, but someone went all cowboy and just removed everything published before 2008?

Not according to the article.

[Gulliver Foyle]

Amazing to see all the rightwingers here losing their marbles over a book renewal programme, with additional checking to see if the books were appropriate, being done badly and a bit ovre-zealously in a couple of schools.

Oh and the governor of Ontario is one of the Ford brothers, best described as T**** avant la lettre.

[Donal]

OK, so people at one school in Canada go their signals crossed, no one stopped to questions orders from On High, screwed up a renewal program because they didn't properly implement a new parameter, and now are looking for someone to blame.

And this is being equated to Republican governors and other elected officials publicly and proudly proclaiming banning books on ideological grounds.

Did I get that right?