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Old 7th December 2018, 10:07 PM   #201
Horatius
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I could be wrong, but I believe that Horatius was describing our civil court system, albeit sarcastically.

Yes, I was being sarcastic. This highlights the fundamental problem with most of the conspiracy theorists in our society, and why I've always thought they were more dangerous than most other people think they are.

MicahJava seems to believe that if we don't let every stupid ******* say anything they want to without consequence, we're doomed to a tyrannical hellscape of an existence, where no one is allowed to say anything at all. And I suspect that a big part of why he thinks that way can be attributed to an unstated belief that the systems our society has in place to prevent such abuses cannot be trusted.

He just doesn't get it: trials like this one are part of how we protect our freedom of speech. Because you do have to prove with a preponderance of the evidence that the person committing slander and libel actually is guilty. We don't need draconian laws that dictate exactly what can and cannot be said, because we know can rely on the impartial judgement of the courts to sort it all out.

But if and when enough people lose that trust, the system breaks down. We're watching that happen now with regards to elections - lots of people have apparently concluded that it really is all rigged. And the consequences of that will be enormous.
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Old 7th December 2018, 10:33 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
SOmepeople just don't get the difference between criminal/statue law and civil law. That you can do things that are not offenses against criminal or statute law, but lleave you open for civil damages.
As has been stated time and time again, Freedom of Speech..at least in the US..does not mean freedom of condquences from what you say. It just means you cannot, except in very,very limited cases, be prosecuted by the government for speech.
And way too many people seem to have a lot of trouble wrapping their heads around that!!!
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Old 7th December 2018, 11:00 PM   #203
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Nobody wants to admit how far Operation Northwoods and the Bush-Blair 2003 memo completely destroys the political/historical fabric of reality for the USA. Of course, when the fabric of reality is in question, people will choose to be denialists. People love to talk about the psychology of conspiracy theorists, but the psychology of denialists is thin as paper, it's actually disturbing to me how easy it is to see through the dunning kruger effect from people who don't want conspiracy theories to be true. People who don't even know basic history will suddenly think they're experts because they skimmed a Cracked article or something, and if called out they will just make dumb jokes, insults, and excuses.

Last edited by MicahJava; 7th December 2018 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 7th December 2018, 11:25 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
We are talking about civil damages for slander and libel. Given the nature of the harm he's inflicted on the bereaved parents, and the fact that in his child custody case, he's admitted it's an act, we can be sure Jones knew his allegations were untrue.

He was spreading malicious lies for personal profit and the civil remedy is appropriate.

He was also responsible for inciting violence against the parents.

Freedom from the state is pointless if it simply allows non-state actors to persecute you.
We are talking about facts that prove that your notion of Western exceptionalism and planet Earth in general are as fake as the fake unicorns Westerners think North Koreans believe in. The general public should be rightfully confused. The conspiracy theorists are the last who should be blamed.

We are also talking about people who willingly chose to become public figures by appearing on the news, with some choosing to become figures in the gun control movement.

The Alex Jones Sandy Hook lawsuit was a bad thing. No question in my mind that Jones should have the right to question public figures to such an extent. If somebody goes on TV and flaps their mouth, I should be able to flip on a camera and flap my mouth about what they just said. Sorry sometimes people get hurt, but people get hurt the other way too.

Last edited by MicahJava; 7th December 2018 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 7th December 2018, 11:38 PM   #205
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By the way, if it weren't for this similar kind of denialism, every horrible phony Western war from the last 60 years wouldn't have happened. At least not the way they did.

Conspiracy theorists: a few crying old ladies.

Conspiracy denialists: millions of deaths.

Also, the emergence of climate change science can be considered a sort of "doomsday conspiracy that came true". Why wouldn't it? Because climate change has evidence while conspiracy theories don't? This is circular logic. "Conspiracy theories are dumb, because if they weren't dumb they wouldn't be called conspiracy theories". Not an argument.

Answered the first few crappy scripted arguments for you guys.

Conspiracy theorists: a few crying old ladies.

Conspiracy denialists: billions of deaths.

Last edited by MicahJava; 7th December 2018 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 7th December 2018, 11:52 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
MicahJava seems to believe that if we don't let every stupid ******* say anything they want to without consequence, we're doomed to a tyrannical hellscape of an existence, where no one is allowed to say anything at all.
Yes, this is exactly what I'm afraid is happening, all of human conversation regulated by type of people who would be forum moderators. There will never, ever, EVER, EVER
, be a "perfect list of what speech to censor". That can not exist due to the flawed nature of humanity. Maybe literally shouting fire in a theater could be illegal, but even stuff like "verbal assault", "inciting violence", "encouraging others to break the law" can be politically manipulated so easily.
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Old 8th December 2018, 12:23 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
By the way, if it weren't for this similar kind of denialism, every horrible phony Western war from the last 60 years wouldn't have happened. At least not the way they did.

Conspiracy theorists: a few crying old ladies.

Conspiracy denialists: millions of deaths.

Also, the emergence of climate change science can be considered a sort of "doomsday conspiracy that came true". Why wouldn't it? Because climate change has evidence while conspiracy theories don't? This is circular logic. "Conspiracy theories are dumb, because if they weren't dumb they wouldn't be called conspiracy theories". Not an argument.

Answered the first few crappy scripted arguments for you guys.

Conspiracy theorists: a few crying old ladies.

Conspiracy denialists: billions of deaths.
Can you list these "horrible phony Western wars"?

I'm going to suggest that they were all staged and didn't happen and that you are being paid by those in power to.use conspiracy theories to give the sheeple an illegitimate target for their anger .
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Old 8th December 2018, 01:13 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Because climate change has evidence while conspiracy theories don't?
Don't you just love it when someone accidentally stumbles into the answer, just to come up with a warped reason to throw it away?
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Old 8th December 2018, 04:12 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yeah, somebody sure outed themselves as a member of the Tin Foil Hat brigade.
Oh, the tinfoil hat's been evident for ages. It's the torture fantasies that are the revelation.

Dave
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Old 8th December 2018, 04:30 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
By the way, if it weren't for this similar kind of denialism, every horrible phony Western war from the last 60 years wouldn't have happened. At least not the way they did.

Conspiracy theorists: a few crying old ladies.

Conspiracy denialists: millions of deaths.

Also, the emergence of climate change science can be considered a sort of "doomsday conspiracy that came true". Why wouldn't it? Because climate change has evidence while conspiracy theories don't? This is circular logic. "Conspiracy theories are dumb, because if they weren't dumb they wouldn't be called conspiracy theories". Not an argument.

Answered the first few crappy scripted arguments for you guys.

Conspiracy theorists: a few crying old ladies.

Conspiracy denialists: billions of deaths.


Well, goddamnit, I'm publishing my revelations.

Just gonna toddle off and make them up, but boy, they'll be good.
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Old 8th December 2018, 05:17 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Yes, this is exactly what I'm afraid is happening, all of human conversation regulated by type of people who would be forum moderators. There will never, ever, EVER, EVER
, be a "perfect list of what speech to censor". That can not exist due to the flawed nature of humanity. Maybe literally shouting fire in a theater could be illegal, but even stuff like "verbal assault", "inciting violence", "encouraging others to break the law" can be politically manipulated so easily.
And yet you're allowed to advocate the torture of bereaved parents on a public forum. It's almost as if there weren't an apparatus in place to prevent people from stating grossly offensive opinions and you had real freedom of speech. Strange that you feel your freedom is so much under threat that you're prepared to advocate random imprisonment of others just to preserve it.

Dave
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Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 8th December 2018, 10:31 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
And yet you're allowed to advocate the torture of bereaved parents on a public forum. It's almost as if there weren't an apparatus in place to prevent people from stating grossly offensive opinions and you had real freedom of speech. Strange that you feel your freedom is so much under threat that you're prepared to advocate random imprisonment of others just to preserve it.

Dave
I've kind of gotten used to your style, Dave. Nobody believes it. You should try something fresh.
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Old 8th December 2018, 10:44 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
And yet you're allowed to advocate the torture of bereaved parents on a public forum. It's almost as if there weren't an apparatus in place to prevent people from stating grossly offensive opinions and you had real freedom of speech. Strange that you feel your freedom is so much under threat that you're prepared to advocate random imprisonment of others just to preserve it.

Dave
It's almost amusing that the people who want to use "Free Speech" as a weapon don't understand that they also have to accept the consequences of that speech.
Also - Obligatory XKCD
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I've kind of gotten used to your style, Dave. Nobody believes it. You should try something fresh.
Liar, you do not speak for me.
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Old 8th December 2018, 11:01 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I've kind of gotten used to your style, Dave. Nobody believes it. You should try something fresh.
I believe it.
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Old 8th December 2018, 11:01 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Mongrel View Post
It's almost amusing that the people who want to use "Free Speech" as a weapon don't understand that they also have to accept the consequences of that speech.
Also - Obligatory XKCD

Liar, you do not speak for me.
I wish that the U.S. Government would have it's own free-speech-based social media network. Such a project sounds right up Trump's alley. Maybe even call it "Trumped" or "Trump'd". That would leave at least some kind of positive lasting legacy from Trump, and maybe it would satisfy him knowing that his name won't always just be known as a swear word.
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Old 8th December 2018, 11:38 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I've kind of gotten used to your style, Dave. Nobody believes it. You should try something fresh.

I believe it
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Old 8th December 2018, 11:41 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I wish that the U.S. Government would have it's own free-speech-based social media network. Such a project sounds right up Trump's alley. Maybe even call it "Trumped" or "Trump'd". That would leave at least some kind of positive lasting legacy from Trump, and maybe it would satisfy him knowing that his name won't always just be known as a swear word.
We already have one sycophantic Trump propaganda media network in Trump TV (a.k.a. Faux News). The world doesn't need a Trump propaganda social media network as well.
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Old 8th December 2018, 11:53 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I've kind of gotten used to your style, Dave. Nobody believes it. You should try something fresh.
What, nobody believes you advocated torturing grieving parents?

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I would rather see the Sandy Hook parents tortured in camps than have them partially responsible for removing a sliver of freedom.
There you go.

Dave
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Old 8th December 2018, 12:11 PM   #219
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Quote:
Nobody believes it.
what is the vague 'it' here since that is doing all the work?
I would like to know what I allegedly don't believe.
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Old 8th December 2018, 12:46 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Nobody wants to admit how far Operation Northwoods and the Bush-Blair 2003 memo completely destroys the political/historical fabric of reality for the USA. Of course, when the fabric of reality is in question, people will choose to be denialists. People love to talk about the psychology of conspiracy theorists, but the psychology of denialists is thin as paper, it's actually disturbing to me how easy it is to see through the dunning kruger effect from people who don't want conspiracy theories to be true. People who don't even know basic history will suddenly think they're experts because they skimmed a Cracked article or something, and if called out they will just make dumb jokes, insults, and excuses.
Boo hoo.

Couple of easy points you ignore;

Northwoods doesn't matter because:

1. It never left the room. It was just an idea.

2. It was one of a dozen ideas to justify JFK invading Cuba that never left the room.

3. There have been hundreds of such proposals over the decades following WWII that never left the room.

One of the many reasons nobody takes you seriously even as a CTist is your constant focus on THINGS THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN WHILE IGNORING THINGS THAT DID HAPPEN.

You choose to hang out at the kiddie tables of CT Land, meanwhile the big kids might come in here making their cases for nefarious US Gub'mint CT citing ACTUAL OPERATIONS THAT ACTUALLY WENT LIVE, such as:

The US Army conducting biological warfare tests in the NYC subway system in 1966:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...=.3b2c02d3fb78

The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiments:

From the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/timeline.htm

From the WaPo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.6c0008b1c206

The CIA & US Army Intelligence infiltrating the anti-War protest at different levels:

https://www.nytimes.com/1974/12/22/a...ces-other.html

I could go on, the real world list is long (longer when you include the Soviet Union's activities), but I think I've made my point. The list above are real operations that had real consequences, and ended up re-shaping how things are done in Washington.

If I was still a CT-Moron these would be go-to government operations to attempt to support the possibility of whatever silly CT I'm trying to foist on the world.
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Old 8th December 2018, 01:10 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
We are talking about facts that prove that your notion of Western exceptionalism and planet Earth in general are as fake as the fake unicorns Westerners think North Koreans believe in.
You have presented no facts. Not one.

I would really love to hear discuss your vast knowledge of North Korea some day too.

Quote:
The conspiracy theorists are the last who should be blamed.
They should be sued wherever appropriate.

Quote:
We are also talking about people who willingly chose to become public figures by appearing on the news, with some choosing to become figures in the gun control movement.
And so they deserve to be threatened with death?

Tell us, how did JFK die? How did RFK die? How did MLK die?

You waste everyone's time posting lies on those murders claiming conspiracy while ignoring the simple fact that Lee Harvey Oswald, Jame Earl Ray, and Sirhan Sirhan were able to purchase, or come by their weapons a little too easily.

I'm a big 2nd Amendment guy, but the fact is that guns were and are too easy to get, and the black market gun world is off the hook as a result.

All the parents want at the very least is an honest debate in Congress, and at most to see the AR-15 become a restricted commodity. And for these reasons they deserve death threats? They deserve to be accused of being part of a lie that says their children never existed? You really need to read up on North Korea sometime.

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The Alex Jones Sandy Hook lawsuit was a bad thing.
Nope, it's a Constitutional right.

Quote:
No question in my mind that Jones should have the right to question public figures to such an extent.
That is not what happened here. He accused them of not being parents, that their dead children were fake, and that they are part of some left-wing conspiracy to take away all firearms.

Quote:
If somebody goes on TV and flaps their mouth, I should be able to flip on a camera and flap my mouth about what they just said. Sorry sometimes people get hurt, but people get hurt the other way too.
Oh, okay, so you're willing to post your real name, and contact information in this open forum so that someone can drop by your house to stick a microphone in your face to justify the things you say?

(I'm just going to assume the answer to that one is no)
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Old 8th December 2018, 01:22 PM   #222
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are 'fake unicorns' more fake than real unicorns?
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Old 8th December 2018, 01:25 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
By the way, if it weren't for this similar kind of denialism, every horrible phony Western war from the last 60 years wouldn't have happened. At least not the way they did.
Let's see...the Korean War was started by North Korea...

The US got involved in Vietnam because of the "Domino Theory", and thus you can argue that CTists got us into that war.

Panama removed a dictator.

Desert Storm repelled Iraq from Kuwait.

Afghanistan's invasion was ultimately up to the Taliban, who could have handed over the Al Qaeda leadership, or just gave us bombing coordinates, but no.

The invasion of Iraq was based on the theory in the Bush NSC that Al Qaeda must have had help from somebody...so the Iraq War was based on a CT.

Quote:
Conspiracy theorists: a few crying old ladies.

Conspiracy denialists: millions of deaths
.

Actually those deaths in Vietnam and Iraq are a result of Conspiracy Theorists in control of foreign policy. CTists seem to be the mass murderers in your scenario.

Also, if you don't care about the murder of 20 children then there is no reason to care about the murder of a million.

Quote:
Also, the emergence of climate change science can be considered a sort of "doomsday conspiracy that came true".
Climate Change was NEVER a conspiracy theory.

Quote:
Why wouldn't it? Because climate change has evidence while conspiracy theories don't? This is circular logic.
No, it's actual logic.

Quote:
"Conspiracy theories are dumb, because if they weren't dumb they wouldn't be called conspiracy theories". Not an argument.

You are correct here. This is not an argument, it is a statement of fact.
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Old 8th December 2018, 01:28 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I wish that the U.S. Government would have it's own free-speech-based social media network. Such a project sounds right up Trump's alley. Maybe even call it "Trumped" or "Trump'd". That would leave at least some kind of positive lasting legacy from Trump, and maybe it would satisfy him knowing that his name won't always just be known as a swear word.
Great, you want to hand the US Government your IP address, and your name?

How is this consistent with anything you have ever posted here?
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Old 8th December 2018, 01:38 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Great, you want to hand the US Government your IP address, and your name?

How is this consistent with anything you have ever posted here?
Since when has consistency been associated with conspiracy theorists?

Fascistic thinking, yes.
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Old 8th December 2018, 02:24 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Since when has consistency been associated with conspiracy theorists?



Fascistic thinking, yes.


That was another thing I learned by participating in the 9/11 forum here. These guys really do want a dictatorship, they just want to be in charge of it.
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Old 8th December 2018, 02:35 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by Whip View Post
are 'fake unicorns' more fake than real unicorns?

No, they’re less fake. ‘Real unicorns’ are fake, but fake unicorns are real.
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Old 8th December 2018, 02:39 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
That was another thing I learned by participating in the 9/11 forum here. These guys really do want a dictatorship, they just want to be in charge of it.
Indeed and it has been noticed since the 1950's


I have a copy of "Uses and abuses of Psychology by Hans Eysenck (Pelican, 1953) and will type out a bit from the following:

Page 267 (Chapter - The psychology of anti-Semitism)


In actual fact, a person who holds one unfavourable view regarding the Jews will tend very strongly to hold other unfavourable views, even though the two views may be logically incompatible. Thus, for instance, one and the same person may believe that Jews are too seclusive, keeping themselves to themselves and not mixing with Gentiles, and also that they are too intrusive, trying to be over-assimilative.

<longish snip>

This finding is important because it shows that we cannot deal with anti-Semitism in isolation. Anti-Jewish prejudice in a way is merely accidental; where there are no Jews, other groups will take their place. The Jews merely stand in for the 'out-group', and prejudices regarding them are created regardless of their own behaviour by certain quite general processes in the psychology of the anti-Semite. If we wish to deal with anti-Semitism, therefore, we must broaden our quest and look at ethnocentrism as a whole.



Minor derail but I think it is also interesting to quote from later in the chapter:

Independent studies in the United States have since given string support to these views
[that there are certain non-political traits of antisemites] and added various other items as indicators of anti-Semitic tendencies. Nine main groups of items were found to correlate highly with anti-Semitism-ethnocentrism in these studies. The first group of items is referred to as 'conventionalism' or the rigid adherence to conventional middle-class values. Examples of this attitude are 'One should avoid doing things in public which appear wrong to others, even though one knows that these things are really all right.' The second group is known collectively as 'authoritarian submission', or submissive, uncritical attitude towards the idealized moral authorities of the 'in-group'. Examples of this attitude are 'What this country needs is fewer laws and agencies, and more courageous, tireless, devoted leaders, whom the people can put their faith in.' 1 The third group of items is labelled 'authoritarian aggression', or a tendency to be on the look-out for, and to condemn, reject and punish, people who violate conventional values. As an example, we may quote the item 'Homosexuality is a particularly rotten form of delinquency and ought to be severely punished.'

The fourth group of items deals with opposition to the subjective, the imaginative, and the tender-minded and is called'anti-intraception'. Intraception is a somewhat technical term meaning 'the dominance of feelings, fantasies, speculations, aspirations - an imaginative, subjective, human outlook' as opposed to extraception, 'a term that describes the tendency to be determined by concrete, clearly observable physical conditions (tangible objective facts).' As an example, we may quote the the item 'There is too much emphasis in colleges on intellectual and theoretical topics, not enough emphasis on practical matters and on the homely virtues of living.'

The next group of items is headed 'superstition and stereotopy', i.e. a belief in the mystical determinants of the individual's fate and a disposition to think in rigid categories. As an example, the following may serve: 'Although many people may scoff, it may yet be shown that astrology can explain a lot of things.'

Next comes a belief in 'power and toughness', i.e. a preoccupation with the dominance-submission, strong-weak, leader-follower dimension; identification with power figures; and exaggerated assertion of strength and toughness. 2 This attitude is expressed by items such as 'Too many people today are living in an unnatural, soft way,; we sshould return to the fundamentals, to a more red-blooded, active way of life.' Another group of items is characterised by the terms 'destructiveness and cynicism', or a generalised hostility and vilification of the human species. Instances of these attitudes are 'No matter how they act on the surface, men are interested in women for only one reason', and 'When you come right down to it, it's human nature to never do anything without an eye to one's own profit.

The last two sets of items are called 'projectivity', identified as the disposition to believe that wild and dangerous things are going on in the world;3 and the projection outwards of unconscious emotional impulses and sexual strivings, i.e. an exaggerated concern with sexual goings-on. Examples of these two tendencies are 'To a greater extent than most people realise our lives are governed by plots hatched in secret by politicians, and 'The sexual orgies of the old Greeks and Romans are nursery-school stuff compared to some of the goings-on in this country today, even in circles where people might least expect it.'

1
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I wish that the U.S. Government would have it's own free-speech-based social media network. Such a project sounds right up Trump's alley. Maybe even call it "Trumped" or "Trump'd". That would leave at least some kind of positive lasting legacy from Trump, and maybe it would satisfy him knowing that his name won't always just be known as a swear word.
2
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I would rather see the Sandy Hook parents tortured in camps than have them partially responsible for removing a sliver of freedom. Freedom is more important than butthurt. Always has been, no matter what. People just don't care about freedom anymore. Now in France the're trying to censor conspiracy theories all together.
3
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Actual crisis actor conspiracies have been conceived of before (1967 Operation Northwoods memo and the Bush-Blair 2003 Memo), so it's not like the conspiracy theorists started it. Plus, people wouldn't be so quick to judge them if they were aware of the true war-mongering nature of the U.S. for the last sixty years, and would especially become more sympathetic to the crazier crowd if they were aware of all the evidence surrounding the assassinations of the 60's. Conspiracy watchdogs are important in society because conspiracies happen. Besides, Alex Jones is technically more innocent than almost all mainstream media entities because he called BS on the Iraq war from the very beginning, an Iraq was a pointless mass murder that cost 1.5 million+ lives.

Who here wants their freedom of speech to be decided by a committee of Kyle's mom from South Park? Because there's no argument that that's what we're going to get.

I've probably missed some out - anyone else for playing bingo with recent posts?
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Old 8th December 2018, 03:02 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
We are talking about facts that prove that your notion of Western exceptionalism and planet Earth in general are as fake as the fake unicorns Westerners think North Koreans believe in. The general public should be rightfully confused. The conspiracy theorists are the last who should be blamed.

We are also talking about people who willingly chose to become public figures by appearing on the news, with some choosing to become figures in the gun control movement.

The Alex Jones Sandy Hook lawsuit was a bad thing. No question in my mind that Jones should have the right to question public figures to such an extent. If somebody goes on TV and flaps their mouth, I should be able to flip on a camera and flap my mouth about what they just said. Sorry sometimes people get hurt, but people get hurt the other way too.
Well gee, do you think maybe they went on TV and flapped their mouth because some dumb radio host couldn't stop telling lies and flapping his?

Jones is as fake as they come, is questioning nothing but your intelligence and is only in it for the money. That's the world your defending: liars and frauds abusing victims of the appalling hatred that these snake oil salesmen are all too willing to propagate for dumb people's cash and then whining when they get called out on it. Free speech does not only apply to Jones and his ilk, it is available for everyone - including those who want to defend themselves against his lies.
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Old 8th December 2018, 03:09 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
By the way, if it weren't for this similar kind of denialism, every horrible phony Western war from the last 60 years wouldn't have happened. At least not the way they did.

Conspiracy theorists: a few crying old ladies.

Conspiracy denialists: millions of deaths.

Also, the emergence of climate change science can be considered a sort of "doomsday conspiracy that came true". Why wouldn't it? Because climate change has evidence while conspiracy theories don't? This is circular logic. "Conspiracy theories are dumb, because if they weren't dumb they wouldn't be called conspiracy theories". Not an argument.

Answered the first few crappy scripted arguments for you guys.

Conspiracy theorists: a few crying old ladies.

Conspiracy denialists: billions of deaths.
Really!? Your knowledge of history is limited it seems. Lets about conspiracy theories helping to cause deaths.

1), The International Jewish World Conspiracy, propagated by such nonsense has The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. At least few million deaths.

2), The Communist subversion conspiracy to turn Argentina over to Communism. Argentina's "Dirty War". Over 10,000 deaths.

3), The Trotsky - Wreaker campaign to destroy the Soviet Union. Result, the Great Purge and c. 700,000 deaths in two years.

4), Much of MacCarthyism in the USA was pure conspiracy driven clap trap.

5), The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution, resulting in at least 100s of thousands of deaths in China resulting from a fear of a conspiracy of enemies who were "subverting" the Revolution.

6), The Witchcraze in Europe brought on by a fear of a conspiracy of Witches who are trying to destroy Christianity. probably over 200,000 deaths.

I could go on. The number of people who have been slaughtered and / or made to suffer, because of deluded conspiracy crap is easily in the millions. And despite your crap the number of people who have died because some people thought utter garbage was garbage is minimal.

One of things one gets from talking to conspiracy nutjobs is that they earnestly desire to exercise power over others and to destroy the "other". Of course such a mentality leads to mass death.
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Old 8th December 2018, 03:34 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Nobody wants to admit how far Operation Northwoods and the Bush-Blair 2003 memo completely destroys the political/historical fabric of reality for the USA.
And you can't admit to simply parroting CTist talking points.

Want to provide the section of Northwoods that stipulates the use of "crisis actors?" Is this gem of ignorance another example of "the worlds best snipers and Olympic snipers" jive you were so fond of early on in your JFK assassination CT?
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Old 8th December 2018, 03:42 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by Pacal View Post
Really!? Your knowledge of history is limited it seems. Lets about conspiracy theories helping to cause deaths.

1), The International Jewish World Conspiracy, propagated by such nonsense has The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. At least few million deaths.

2), The Communist subversion conspiracy to turn Argentina over to Communism. Argentina's "Dirty War". Over 10,000 deaths.

3), The Trotsky - Wreaker campaign to destroy the Soviet Union. Result, the Great Purge and c. 700,000 deaths in two years.

4), Much of MacCarthyism in the USA was pure conspiracy driven clap trap.

5), The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution, resulting in at least 100s of thousands of deaths in China resulting from a fear of a conspiracy of enemies who were "subverting" the Revolution.

6), The Witchcraze in Europe brought on by a fear of a conspiracy of Witches who are trying to destroy Christianity. probably over 200,000 deaths.

I could go on. The number of people who have been slaughtered and / or made to suffer, because of deluded conspiracy crap is easily in the millions. And despite your crap the number of people who have died because some people thought utter garbage was garbage is minimal.

One of things one gets from talking to conspiracy nutjobs is that they earnestly desire to exercise power over others and to destroy the "other". Of course such a mentality leads to mass death.
Add in the lives destroyed by antivax conspiracy theories, for example those claiming that the vaccines are attempts by the West to sterilize African Muslims.
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Old 8th December 2018, 04:00 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Boo hoo.

Couple of easy points you ignore;

Northwoods doesn't matter because:

1. It never left the room. It was just an idea.

2. It was one of a dozen ideas to justify JFK invading Cuba that never left the room.

3. There have been hundreds of such proposals over the decades following WWII that never left the room.

One of the many reasons nobody takes you seriously even as a CTist is your constant focus on THINGS THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN WHILE IGNORING THINGS THAT DID HAPPEN.

You choose to hang out at the kiddie tables of CT Land, meanwhile the big kids might come in here making their cases for nefarious US Gub'mint CT citing ACTUAL OPERATIONS THAT ACTUALLY WENT LIVE, such as:

The US Army conducting biological warfare tests in the NYC subway system in 1966:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...=.3b2c02d3fb78

The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiments:

From the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/timeline.htm

From the WaPo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.6c0008b1c206

The CIA & US Army Intelligence infiltrating the anti-War protest at different levels:

https://www.nytimes.com/1974/12/22/a...ces-other.html

I could go on, the real world list is long (longer when you include the Soviet Union's activities), but I think I've made my point. The list above are real operations that had real consequences, and ended up re-shaping how things are done in Washington.

If I was still a CT-Moron these would be go-to government operations to attempt to support the possibility of whatever silly CT I'm trying to foist on the world.
Salud!

Great post.

Here's a couple of other proven examples.

The LSD tests on unwitting test subjects right here in S.F.

The Reagan White House shutting down the DOJ anti-trust investigation and the F.B.I. criminal conspiracy investigation of M.C.A. (Reagan's agent while he was an actor was Lew Wasserman, then head of M.C.A.) and Reagan had earlier as the head of the Screen Actor's Guild, granted M.C.A. a blanket waiver of any conflict of interest consideration as acting as agent. producer and creator of entertainment materials in any venue. A waiver never granted to any other entity. When Reagan was deposed in 1962 during an earlier D.O.J. anti-trust investigation, he had no memory of how that waiver was approved...I've read the deposition. He had already perfected the art of not answering the question asked, a skill that served him well later on.
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Old 8th December 2018, 04:11 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I've kind of gotten used to your style, Dave. Nobody believes it. You should try something fresh.
I'd like to add that I believe it as well.

It's the nonsense that you're posting that nobody believes...
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Old 8th December 2018, 04:36 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
No, they’re less fake. ‘Real unicorns’ are fake, but fake unicorns are real.
I have so much to learn.
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Old 8th December 2018, 05:08 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
I'd like to add that I believe it as well.

It's the nonsense that you're posting that nobody believes...
It's a favorite of reality challenged CTist buffs - "everybody that PM's me agrees with me that you're wrong and I'm right and nobody believes you." MJ's bestus buddy on the site (now banned) played that very card more than once.

I agree with Dave as well.
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Old 8th December 2018, 10:12 PM   #237
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Just a quick recap:

The case has not gone to court yet. Nothing has been decided, and there is no guarantee that the parents will win.

It's simply due process.

The byproduct from this is that Jones has been dropped from YouTube, iTunes, and other third-party hosting services because if the case rules in favor of the families these outlets can also be sued.

Just stay tuned...
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Old 9th December 2018, 12:11 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
It's a favorite of reality challenged CTist buffs - "everybody that PM's me agrees with me that you're wrong and I'm right and nobody believes you." MJ's bestus buddy on the site (now banned) played that very card more than once.

I agree with Dave as well.

Really? What was his manifesto then?
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Old 9th December 2018, 02:04 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Add in the lives destroyed by antivax conspiracy theories, for example those claiming that the vaccines are attempts by the West to sterilize African Muslims.
Hamas believe that there is an international conspiracy of Masonic Jews using the Lions and Rotary Clubs as a front.
Hamas is responsible for thousands of deaths of both Israelis and Palestinians.
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Old 9th December 2018, 05:51 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Hamas believe that there is an international conspiracy of Masonic Jews using the Lions and Rotary Clubs as a front.
Hamas is responsible for thousands of deaths of both Israelis and Palestinians.
I am not certain that Hamas could claim even hundreds of Israeli deaths yet alone thousands. Most of the Israeli deaths would be of IDF soldiers in Lebanon (256) and thus classed as legitimate military resistance to an occupying army. Not all of which could be attributed to Hamas. Total Israeli deaths since 2000 are around a thousand again not all are not attributable to Hamas. Israelis have been killed by rockets from Gaza, again not all will be attributable to Hamas. There have certainly been thousands of Palestinian deaths, most but not all attributable to the IDF. I am certainly aware that the IDF claims that Hamas encourage unarmed demonstrators to approach the fence enclosing Gaza, and that such persons are regarded as a mortal threat to IDF soldiers in observation posts and armoured vehicles and thus are legitimate targets of snipers. But not everyone would attribute those deaths to Hamas as opposed to the IDF sniper who pulls the trigger. The same argument is made with regards to almost all deaths of palestinians.
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