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Tags Venezuela incidents , Venezuela issues , Venezuela politics

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Old 3rd November 2018, 05:23 AM   #361
dann
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
For anyone other than Venezuela to impose martial law in Venezuela would obviously require an occupation as well.

In cases like this, I think you usually pay somebody to pretend to represent the country, and then you call it coming to the rescue rather than invading.
(Yes, it would require an occupation.)
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Old 5th November 2018, 10:51 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Oh, I know the UN isn't interested in cleaning up messes. But my proposal is that the UN would have a military arm that can create the necessary conditions for the UN to come in and clean up a mess already made by one of its members.
No, your proposal is for the US to come in can create a mess that canít be cleaned up any time soon then ask the UN to come in and try and fix it.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post

I'd be content to have the US deal with it,
Like theyíve ďdealtĒ with it in Iraq and Afghanistan? The US is bad at this type of mission to begin with, but even countries that are good at it can only do so much.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I disagree. We smashed the German Nazi and Japanese Imperial governments, but didn't have to rebuild democratic institutions completely from scratch to get those countries back on their feet again.
The instruction at the top isnít the issue. (In Japan, even the Emperor was left in place). In Japan the people who did the day to day work of keeping things running in an orderly fashion didnít change at all. In Germany they were more or less restored to the same people who were doing it before with some attention to weeding out the war criminals and hard-core Nazi supporters.
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Old 5th November 2018, 11:10 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post

For example, a coalition of belligerents under the aegis of a UNSC resolution to depose the offending regime, secure the country, and provide a temporary system of order under martial law; and a UN Peacekeeper mission that comes into the country to help rebuild it and set it on a footing where it is once again on the road to success.
Iím not sure you understand how peacekeeping works. Peacekeepers are not police, they primarily work with local leaders and act as independent third parties that all sides can have some degree of trust in. If you smash the leadership in Venezuela who exactly are they going to work with?

The inevitable outcome of your plan is that criminals and local warlords with no interest in peace fill the power vacuum. Itís very difficult to deal with groups like this because their power base is predicated on maintaining instability and they know it. They keep their power by undermining everyone elseís ability to maintain infrastructure and basic services.
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Old 5th November 2018, 12:46 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
The inevitable outcome of your plan is that criminals and local warlords with no interest in peace fill the power vacuum. Itís very difficult to deal with groups like this because their power base is predicated on maintaining instability and they know it. They keep their power by undermining everyone elseís ability to maintain infrastructure and basic services.
Yeah, that's Afghanistan, and the drug lord history of the region tells me Venezuela would have a similar fate (read, for example, News of a Kidnapping, about neighboring Colombia). Colombia is only now coming to terms with FARC.
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Old 20th November 2018, 09:09 AM   #365
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The Trump administration is possibly putting Venezuela on the terrorism watch list. If they do, it's primarily due to their Vice President Minister of Industries and National Production:

https://amp.businessinsider.com/trum...r-list-2018-11

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tareck_El_Aissami
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Last edited by LSSBB; 20th November 2018 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 29th November 2018, 07:44 AM   #366
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Useful: Venezuela for US/European/Western dummies
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Old 29th November 2018, 07:56 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Useful for what? Shilling for the failed ideology of a kleptocrat?
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Old 29th November 2018, 08:05 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Useful idiot perhaps
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Old 1st December 2018, 02:13 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I am so relieved to learn from that website that the genocide of Bosnians didn't really happen.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 05:40 AM   #370
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According to the International Monetary Fund, inflation should reach ten million percent in 2019. The country is struggling to produce enough oil for exports, and food, toilet paper and other daily staples are hard to find. Crime is rampant, and the economy is now based on barter, with goods having greater value than the worthless government currency, the bolivar.

https://nationalinterest.org/feature...bean-war-39987
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Old 3rd January 2019, 06:48 AM   #371
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...5f4_story.html

Russia is moving in, apparently.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 08:02 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
That's like buying a house in Detroit. Sure, you got it for cheap, but there's a reason for that.
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Old 4th January 2019, 10:57 PM   #373
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Country that has enough of its own economical problems trying to salvage economically collapsing country? That will end well for both of them...
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Old 5th January 2019, 12:54 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Country that has enough of its own economical problems trying to salvage economically collapsing country? That will end well for both of them...
Both have to get their friends where they can find them.
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Old 5th January 2019, 03:53 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Both have to get their friends where they can find them.
"Friends"
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Old 6th January 2019, 01:29 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
"Friends"
With unbenefits.
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Old 6th January 2019, 02:04 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
"Friends"
The only kinds they have.
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Old 6th January 2019, 07:51 AM   #378
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Russia gonna Russ.
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Old 7th January 2019, 10:53 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
With unbenefits.
Oh, I don't know. I have a feeling that Russia is gonna **** Venezuela. Hard.
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Old 7th January 2019, 11:24 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's like buying a house in Detroit. Sure, you got it for cheap, but there's a reason for that.
If you're looking to start up a brothel or a meth lab, those reasons may be a feature, not a bug.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Oh, I don't know. I have a feeling that Russia is gonna **** Venezuela. Hard.
This. The current regime in Russia is a kleptocratic oligarchy. Venezuela is their Cuba. This bodes very ill for Venezuela.

I'm reminded of a short side-story in one of the early seasons of The Sopranos. The mob uses loan sharks to get their hooks into a local businessman. Then they use that leverage to take over his business and use it as a front for a variety of money-making schemes. The schemes are all swindles, and none of them are sustainable. There's a moment when the hapless victim realizes that Tony and his crew have no intention of keeping his business running. They're going to milk him for every last drop of cash, every last ounce of reputation. When he and his business are all used up, they're going to discard him like a dirty tissue and go find some other poor schmuck to run into the ground.

At least the Soviets were able to offer Cuba a vision of a Better Tomorrow. All Putin's Russia has to offer Venezuela is the tip the scorpion gave to the toad, halfway through their journey together. President Maduro is probably feeling an uncomfortable itch between his shoulder blades right now, but his hands are probably tied. It looks like even China is cutting its losses.
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Old 7th January 2019, 11:30 AM   #381
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And then finally, when there's nothing left, when you can't borrow another buck from the bank or buy another case of booze, you bust the joint out. You light a match.
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Old 9th January 2019, 01:34 PM   #382
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Detailed interview with Maduro by the famous Ignacio Ramonet, in three parts:

https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/14206
https://venezuelanalysis.com/interviews/14209
https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/14212
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Old 9th January 2019, 07:44 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Oh, I don't know. I have a feeling that Russia is gonna **** Venezuela. Hard.
Like RUssia has always done with it's "buddies".
I don't even think Russia can help Venezuela that much. it's not like Russia has all that much economic power nowdays. It has a big military but with a weak economic support base.
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Old 9th January 2019, 08:07 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Let me guess: Part Four is where he explains how the Russian partnership is a good thing for the citizens of Venezuela.
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Old 11th January 2019, 08:47 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Castro's chosen authorised biographer ranting in a Venezuelan government sponsored propaganda site? No thanks.
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Old 11th January 2019, 09:20 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Castro's chosen authorised biographer ranting in a Venezuelan government sponsored propaganda site? No thanks.
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Old 11th January 2019, 12:24 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
He's a famous journalist, but we need to be told he's famous.
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Old 11th January 2019, 12:53 PM   #388
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Maybe he's infamous?
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Old 11th January 2019, 12:58 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
He's a famous journalist, but we need to be told he's famous.
Well, yes. Some of us don't read authorized Castro biographies like we should.
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Old 11th January 2019, 01:00 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Maybe he's infamous?
Maybe his nickname is El Guapo.
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Old 11th January 2019, 04:46 PM   #391
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Did ya all see the Black Mirror episode with Bryce Dallas Howard? Where everyone gets a social rating number and if it drops too low they don't let you in fancier restaurants and people won't date you?

Well China is bulding a "good communist citizen" rating and piloting it for the Venezuelan dictatorship. If your rating drops too low, you can find yourself denied loans and banking and god knows what.

Haven't seen anything this horrid like it since the Nazis did a trial run of blitzkrieg on Guernica.
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The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?
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Old 11th January 2019, 04:58 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
Did ya all see the Black Mirror episode with Bryce Dallas Howard? Where everyone gets a social rating number and if it drops too low they don't let you in fancier restaurants and people won't date you?

Well China is bulding a "good communist citizen" rating and piloting it for the Venezuelan dictatorship. If your rating drops too low, you can find yourself denied loans and banking and god knows what.

Haven't seen anything this horrid like it since the Nazis did a trial run of blitzkrieg on Guernica.
The East Germans implemented a program of teaching children to inform on their parents. For me, that's the most horrid expression of a police state yet recorded in human history.
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Old 12th January 2019, 09:56 AM   #393
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It wasn't just East Germany. The USSR had the cult of Pavel Morozov.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 12:53 PM   #394
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So after the Empire in form of Pence declared openly their illegal regime change intentions, Trump - for the LULz - appointed-by-tweet a US puppet as "Interim president". That will go down well with the Venezuelan people, I'm sure.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 01:47 PM   #395
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Well poverty and death haven't gone over well with them so a change is inevitable
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Old 23rd January 2019, 02:20 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
So after the Empire in form of Pence declared openly their illegal regime change intentions, Trump - for the LULz - appointed-by-tweet a US puppet as "Interim president". That will go down well with the Venezuelan people, I'm sure.
Well Maduro didn't take it well.

""Get out!": Maduro breaks relations with US and demands all consular staff leave in next 72 hours "


https://edition.cnn.com/americas/liv...e40474915cbd9f
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Old 23rd January 2019, 02:38 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Well Maduro didn't take it well.

""Get out!": Maduro breaks relations with US and demands all consular staff leave in next 72 hours "


https://edition.cnn.com/americas/liv...e40474915cbd9f
Huh. I didn't realize the US still had relations with Venezuela to break off.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 03:43 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Well Maduro didn't take it well.

""Get out!": Maduro breaks relations with US and demands all consular staff leave in next 72 hours "


https://edition.cnn.com/americas/liv...e40474915cbd9f
Well, that went well. Did he ask the same of Canada?
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Old 23rd January 2019, 03:52 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Well, that went well. Did he ask the same of Canada?
Dumb,dumb move.
Now the US will give the Venezuelan diplomats in the US there walking papers (as much as I hate Trump, I think any US president would react in this way.it's SOP in diplomacy) and the two goverments will communicate by back channels.
I keep on saying, except for the leftist rhetoric, the Venezuelan govemrent has become the same as any other "El Presendente" style Latin American dictatorship.
I bet Maduro would be terrible at playing "Tropico"...
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Old 24th January 2019, 01:48 AM   #400
Gaetan
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The president of Venezuela has the support of his population. The opponent in Venezuela and US are responsable for the bad economy in this country and for the government Maduro to live the control of the country to the people who ruin the country is not a thing to do.
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