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#1 |
Hasbarian NWO Templar Cattle
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,638
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Conspiracies without the Illuminati
Do they actually exist? And with conspiracies, I mean stuff that the tinfoil crowd uses all the time.
For example, the "9/11 was an inside job!!!11!!" thing also has Illuminati ******** theories. Just like JFK's assasination, The war on Terror, Michael Jackso's dead, Martin Luther King's dead, Elvis's dead, Beatles songs being filled with "secret messages and warning about 'THEMTM' ", ect... Because I think it's unoriginal and it starts to get pretty boring if you're constantly going to use the same bogeyman over and over again... So, I'm wondering if there are actually any fantasy fairytales tinfoilers have been telling each other that do not have any connections with the imaginatti (apart from "The Protocols of The Elders Of Zion")? |
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"Bravery Is Not A Function Of Firepower." - JC Denton "And belief in conspiracy theories is not the function of a higher intellect." - BStrong ![]() |
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#2 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,749
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So only Rothschild and Bilderberg?
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Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t. |
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#3 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 30,745
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“Big Pharma”?
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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#4 |
Scourge, of the supernatural
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 13,555
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Someone once referred to the "Alluminati" and I said that I welcomed our new metallic overlords. I suppose it really depends on how much you or they drill down (or in this case up). Eventually you have to get to the conspirators working the conspirators working the conspirators working any given particular conspiracy. It is just a natural consequence of extended control and/or coordination. While it may not even be explicit it is implicit in the very control and/or coordination that makes a conspiracy a, well, conspiracy. Whatever level of such control and/or coordination you want to stop at thus becomes the top level of that conspiracy and hence its imaginatti. Even if explicit it doesn't have to be the same boogeyman. Any board of directors is a board of directors carrying the same connotations, control and/or coordination as that mear group name instills. TLDR: In the context considered, conspiracies, Illuminati is just a name of a group. The particulars of the meaning and relevance of that group depend on the specific application. |
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BRAINZZZZZZZZ |
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#5 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 19,976
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I've heard tell they are run by Adolph Hitler's son Patrick Stewart....
ETA: Oh, WITHOUT the Illuminati. I'm an idiot this morning... I don't recall any Illuminati connections to the moon hoax thing. |
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Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
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#6 |
Scourge, of the supernatural
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 13,555
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Wait, I thought he was a clone of Hitler?
See that's where they get'cha. Conspiracy confusion, so confusing it must be a conspiracy. |
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BRAINZZZZZZZZ |
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#7 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 3,580
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Most CT's start off without the Illuminati, and then as they run out of steam someone finds a way to link them (code-words, symbols, a guy who worked with a guy who knows a guy who talked to a guy who was in the military who read about a guy).
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Disingenuous Piranha |
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#8 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 23,412
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I suppose it's a little like religious believers, who, once they get to a god, can relax because he absorbs all unanswerable questions. The cause of all needs no cause, and besides, he acts as you would if you could.
If you're a conspiracy theorist, as I think was pointed out above, it's presumed that everything has an attributable cause. And thus the causes must have causes. At some point it's handy for the rabbit hole to have a bottom. The pure malicious cupidity of the Illuminati needs no explanation, no motive. Now you can relax and consider it all answered, a sharp point on the spear of truth. |
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I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard) |
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#9 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,765
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This reminds me of that time you said it was a conspiracy theory assertion that Ike coined the well known term " Military Industrial Complex".
Quote:
No! Heavens to Betsey, no. No no no. They were officially disbanded years ago, just like Operation Mockingbird. But there was this and this, and then came this |
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#10 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 3,580
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You do know that the Illuminati are the good guys, right?
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Disingenuous Piranha |
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#11 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,749
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Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t. |
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#12 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,765
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#13 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 23,412
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I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard) |
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#14 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,241
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It's always a "them" whether it be the Illuminati, the Papists, the Jews the 33° Masons, the Queen of England, MI6, the Bilderbergs, and according to the conspiracy theorists they are trying to achieve... well that is the bit that is never quite clear.
A huge reduction in the population caused by "them" (no, not the giant ants) is always a good one, so they can what? Presumably clean their own toilets and cook meals because nobody else will be around to do it for them. Norm |
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Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in Vain |
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#15 | |||
Begging for Scraps
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 20 minutes in the future
Posts: 1,875
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Which is a Justified position to take
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“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.” - Charles Darwin ...like so many contemporary philosophers he especially enjoyed giving helpful advice to people who were happier than he was. - Tom Lehrer |
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#16 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 19,976
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Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
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#17 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,765
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Rest assured. It mighta been you if you are one of the buncha guys quoted in post 9. Was it ever you who learned that it really was Ike who coined "Military Industrial Complex" shortly after you wrongly assumed that saying so was some kinda conspiracy theory? I'm thinking no, and no. |
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#18 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,223
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#19 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,601
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Actually, I question the premise of the OP.
Having followed against the mainstream and conspiracy theory claims on several fora over the past decade or so, my impression is that very few CTs actually go so far as to appeal to the Illuminati or similar hidden organizations. Most of the time, such references actually come from debunkers, who like to argue that such-and-such CT necessarily appeals to the Illuminati. But CT proponents themselves pretty much never say "yes, you're right, the Illuminati is behind it all!" Instead there's a Gish Gallop or a goalpost move or some other avoidance of whatever reality-based gotcha the debunkers have tried to foist. So to the question, "do conspiracy theories without the Illuminati actually exist?" I'd say the answer is "yes; almost all CTs exist without the Illuminati." The reason for this is that most CTs never get developed to the point where the requirement for a global conspiracy is properly considered and addressed. I don't think I've ever seen a debunker successfully convince a CT-ist that their conspiracy theory must include a covert global conspiracy. To debunkers it's implied, but hardly any CTs actually make it explicit. Every so often you'll get someone who unironically subscribes to the theory of the International Jew. We do have at least one member of this forum who seems to believe the Bilderbergs are up to something nefarious. And then there's the FOTLs, who seem to believe that all of Western Civilization is complicit in a hoax to deprive them of their freedom and defraud them of their rightful share of civilizational wealth. tinribmancer, you're asking if there are any CTs that don't appeal to the Illuminati. I'm wondering if you have any examples of CTs that do. |
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#20 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,765
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#21 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1,868
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JFK being shot by the dwarf near that one fence.
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#22 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,241
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Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in Vain |
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#23 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,601
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#24 |
Safely Ignored
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,255
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#25 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 3,580
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https://www.theweek.co.uk/62399/what...oes-it-control
Quote:
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/2017...ati-conspiracy
Quote:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-th...ody-of-hip-hop And then finally there is this one-stop clearing house of Illuminati CT's: https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/e...illuminati.htm Like I said, at some point they're accused of being behind everything. |
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Disingenuous Piranha |
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#26 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 23,412
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The only person quoted in post 9, other than conspiracy theory sites, is Tinribmancer. That's a pretty small bunch of guys.
Anyway, I certainly don't think that the oft-referred to and oft-cited quote by Ike involves any conspiracy. Whether or not he coined it (though it appears he or his speech writers did), he certainly said it, but I don't recall anyone having disputed this well known fact. e.t.a. My opinion of Ike is not exceptionally high, but I give him credit for this one. I think his warning was apt, and it surprised many people at the time. |
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I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard) |
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#27 |
Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 194
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You give Icke credit? Really? He is a typical woo pusher. Everything is a conspiracy to him. When you chuck enough mud, at least once you might get lucky and hit the target. Icke is to be credited with nothing except having enough cunning to be able to milk money from gullible rubes. He even managed to get his sycophants to fund a media platform for him. Which, surprisingly, went belly up with a lot of the money unaccounted for. He is a conman.
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#28 |
Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 194
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I disagree. Someone else said the Illuminati is a catch-all term, hardly any tinfoil hatters actually define it, but they most definitely imply it is the bogey man behind everything. 9/11, Bilderberg, The Jews, The EU, NATO, NASA, the Vatican, Microsoft, Google etc etc. These are all the Illuminati. There are loads of conspiracy theories concerning all of the above. |
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#29 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,601
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Ike.
Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower. Dwight "Military Industrial Complex" Eisenhower. Ike. Not Icke. Ike. |
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#30 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,765
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True. It makes no sense. Nonetheless Tinribmancer (apparently having missed the memo) assumed it was some kinda CT, and proceeded to issue an accusation accordingly last year when I mentioned that Ike had coined "Military Industrial Complex". It was about Ike backing off from his original "Military Congressional Industrial Complex", which sounds more accurate. He certainly was in position to make the observation. |
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#31 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,765
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George Washington and others quoted at the links in post 9 were a buncha guys. By the way in post 9 those 'conspiracy theory sites' you refer to are: https://www.metabunk.org/context-geo...-exists.t5000/ http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote/...ton_quote_b726 https://founders.archives.gov/docume.../06-02-02-0435
Quote:
Quote:
This guy talks about what Washington referred to ie foreign influence. What You're Not Supposed to Know About America's Founding https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=364cxeR5EAg |
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#32 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 3,580
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Nobody cares.
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Disingenuous Piranha |
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#33 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,824
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#34 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,749
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Beggars can't be choosers: if the only support you can get for your pet CT is from a guy who also believes that Sasquatches are actually aliens, you might have to make space in your theory, just so you can claim that others believe what you believe.
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Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t. |
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#35 |
Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 194
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#36 |
Merchant of Doom
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 13,129
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#37 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,767
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#38 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,765
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#39 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,765
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Perfect excuse to ignore the historical documents and letters he made his points with. Next lesson will cover by whom and why you were convinced JBS is worthy of scorn. Homework: Write a report on this and present it to class. Labels, timetable and appearances differ but its gradually happening. Not so funny after all |
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#40 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,601
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