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Old 6th January 2019, 06:11 AM   #1
tinribmancer
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Conspiracies without the Illuminati

Do they actually exist? And with conspiracies, I mean stuff that the tinfoil crowd uses all the time.

For example, the "9/11 was an inside job!!!11!!" thing also has Illuminati ******** theories. Just like JFK's assasination, The war on Terror, Michael Jackso's dead, Martin Luther King's dead, Elvis's dead, Beatles songs being filled with "secret messages and warning about 'THEMTM' ", ect...

Because I think it's unoriginal and it starts to get pretty boring if you're constantly going to use the same bogeyman over and over again...

So, I'm wondering if there are actually any fantasy fairytales tinfoilers have been telling each other that do not have any connections with the imaginatti (apart from "The Protocols of The Elders Of Zion")?
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Old 6th January 2019, 07:25 AM   #2
The Great Zaganza
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So only Rothschild and Bilderberg?
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Old 6th January 2019, 08:18 AM   #3
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“Big Pharma”?
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Old 6th January 2019, 08:52 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by tinribmancer View Post
Do they actually exist? And with conspiracies, I mean stuff that the tinfoil crowd uses all the time.

For example, the "9/11 was an inside job!!!11!!" thing also has Illuminati ******** theories. Just like JFK's assasination, The war on Terror, Michael Jackso's dead, Martin Luther King's dead, Elvis's dead, Beatles songs being filled with "secret messages and warning about 'THEMTM' ", ect...

Because I think it's unoriginal and it starts to get pretty boring if you're constantly going to use the same bogeyman over and over again...

So, I'm wondering if there are actually any fantasy fairytales tinfoilers have been telling each other that do not have any connections with the imaginatti (apart from "The Protocols of The Elders Of Zion")?

Someone once referred to the "Alluminati" and I said that I welcomed our new metallic overlords.

I suppose it really depends on how much you or they drill down (or in this case up). Eventually you have to get to the conspirators working the conspirators working the conspirators working any given particular conspiracy. It is just a natural consequence of extended control and/or coordination. While it may not even be explicit it is implicit in the very control and/or coordination that makes a conspiracy a, well, conspiracy. Whatever level of such control and/or coordination you want to stop at thus becomes the top level of that conspiracy and hence its imaginatti. Even if explicit it doesn't have to be the same boogeyman. Any board of directors is a board of directors carrying the same connotations, control and/or coordination as that mear group name instills.

TLDR: In the context considered, conspiracies, Illuminati is just a name of a group. The particulars of the meaning and relevance of that group depend on the specific application.
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Old 6th January 2019, 09:20 AM   #5
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I've heard tell they are run by Adolph Hitler's son Patrick Stewart....

ETA: Oh, WITHOUT the Illuminati. I'm an idiot this morning...
I don't recall any Illuminati connections to the moon hoax thing.
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Old 6th January 2019, 09:48 AM   #6
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Wait, I thought he was a clone of Hitler?

See that's where they get'cha. Conspiracy confusion, so confusing it must be a conspiracy.
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Old 6th January 2019, 12:50 PM   #7
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Most CT's start off without the Illuminati, and then as they run out of steam someone finds a way to link them (code-words, symbols, a guy who worked with a guy who knows a guy who talked to a guy who was in the military who read about a guy).
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Old 6th January 2019, 01:21 PM   #8
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I suppose it's a little like religious believers, who, once they get to a god, can relax because he absorbs all unanswerable questions. The cause of all needs no cause, and besides, he acts as you would if you could.

If you're a conspiracy theorist, as I think was pointed out above, it's presumed that everything has an attributable cause. And thus the causes must have causes. At some point it's handy for the rabbit hole to have a bottom. The pure malicious cupidity of the Illuminati needs no explanation, no motive. Now you can relax and consider it all answered, a sharp point on the spear of truth.
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Old 6th January 2019, 08:16 PM   #9
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This reminds me of that time you said it was a conspiracy theory assertion that Ike coined the well known term " Military Industrial Complex".


Quote:
"I have heard much of the nefarious, & dangerous plan, & doctrines of the Illuminati,..."
-George Washington


Originally Posted by tinribmancer View Post
Do they actually exist?

No! Heavens to Betsey, no. No no no.

They were officially disbanded years ago, just like Operation Mockingbird.


But there was this and this, and then came this
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Old 6th January 2019, 10:32 PM   #10
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You do know that the Illuminati are the good guys, right?
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Old 6th January 2019, 10:43 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
You do know that the Illuminati are the good guys, right?
I'm on Team Ancients of Mu-Mu.
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Old 6th January 2019, 10:44 PM   #12
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Silly...


Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
You do know that the Illuminati are the good guys, right?


Everyone knew that. Except you. Thats why you asked, sideways.
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Old 6th January 2019, 10:47 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
This reminds me of that time you said it was a conspiracy theory assertion that Ike coined the well known term " Military Industrial Complex". ...<snip>
since that post follows mine, the "you" is not clear. To whom are you referring?
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Old 7th January 2019, 01:47 AM   #14
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It's always a "them" whether it be the Illuminati, the Papists, the Jews the 33° Masons, the Queen of England, MI6, the Bilderbergs, and according to the conspiracy theorists they are trying to achieve... well that is the bit that is never quite clear.



A huge reduction in the population caused by "them" (no, not the giant ants) is always a good one, so they can what? Presumably clean their own toilets and cook meals because nobody else will be around to do it for them.


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Old 7th January 2019, 06:13 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I'm on Team Ancients of Mu-Mu.
Which is a Justified position to take
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Old 7th January 2019, 09:50 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
It's always a "them" whether it be the Illuminati, the Papists, the Jews the 33° Masons, the Queen of England, MI6, the Bilderbergs, and according to the conspiracy theorists they are trying to achieve... well that is the bit that is never quite clear.



A huge reduction in the population caused by "them" (no, not the giant ants) is always a good one, so they can what? Presumably clean their own toilets and cook meals because nobody else will be around to do it for them.


Norm
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Old 7th January 2019, 11:00 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
since that post follows mine, the "you" is not clear. To whom are you referring?


Rest assured.
It mighta been you if you are one of the buncha guys quoted in post 9.

Was it ever you who learned that it really was Ike who coined "Military Industrial Complex" shortly after you wrongly assumed that saying so was some kinda conspiracy theory?


I'm thinking no, and no.

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Old 7th January 2019, 11:03 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
You do know that the Illuminati are the good guys, right?

no.....that's the Stonecutters.

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Old 7th January 2019, 11:44 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by tinribmancer View Post
Do they actually exist? And with conspiracies, I mean stuff that the tinfoil crowd uses all the time.

For example, the "9/11 was an inside job!!!11!!" thing also has Illuminati ******** theories. Just like JFK's assasination, The war on Terror, Michael Jackso's dead, Martin Luther King's dead, Elvis's dead, Beatles songs being filled with "secret messages and warning about 'THEMTM' ", ect...

Because I think it's unoriginal and it starts to get pretty boring if you're constantly going to use the same bogeyman over and over again...

So, I'm wondering if there are actually any fantasy fairytales tinfoilers have been telling each other that do not have any connections with the imaginatti (apart from "The Protocols of The Elders Of Zion")?
Actually, I question the premise of the OP.

Having followed against the mainstream and conspiracy theory claims on several fora over the past decade or so, my impression is that very few CTs actually go so far as to appeal to the Illuminati or similar hidden organizations.

Most of the time, such references actually come from debunkers, who like to argue that such-and-such CT necessarily appeals to the Illuminati. But CT proponents themselves pretty much never say "yes, you're right, the Illuminati is behind it all!" Instead there's a Gish Gallop or a goalpost move or some other avoidance of whatever reality-based gotcha the debunkers have tried to foist.

So to the question, "do conspiracy theories without the Illuminati actually exist?" I'd say the answer is "yes; almost all CTs exist without the Illuminati." The reason for this is that most CTs never get developed to the point where the requirement for a global conspiracy is properly considered and addressed.

I don't think I've ever seen a debunker successfully convince a CT-ist that their conspiracy theory must include a covert global conspiracy. To debunkers it's implied, but hardly any CTs actually make it explicit.

Every so often you'll get someone who unironically subscribes to the theory of the International Jew. We do have at least one member of this forum who seems to believe the Bilderbergs are up to something nefarious. And then there's the FOTLs, who seem to believe that all of Western Civilization is complicit in a hoax to deprive them of their freedom and defraud them of their rightful share of civilizational wealth.

tinribmancer, you're asking if there are any CTs that don't appeal to the Illuminati. I'm wondering if you have any examples of CTs that do.
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Old 7th January 2019, 01:50 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Actually, I question the premise of the OP.

Having followed against the mainstream and conspiracy theory claims on several fora over the past decade or so, my impression is that very few CTs actually go so far as to appeal to the Illuminati or similar hidden organizations.

Most of the time, such references actually come from debunkers, who like to argue that such-and-such CT necessarily appeals to the Illuminati. But CT proponents themselves pretty much never say "yes, you're right, the Illuminati is behind it all!" Instead there's a Gish Gallop or a goalpost move or some other avoidance of whatever reality-based gotcha the debunkers have tried to foist.

So to the question, "do conspiracy theories without the Illuminati actually exist?" I'd say the answer is "yes; almost all CTs exist without the Illuminati." The reason for this is that most CTs never get developed to the point where the requirement for a global conspiracy is properly considered and addressed.

I don't think I've ever seen a debunker successfully convince a CT-ist that their conspiracy theory must include a covert global conspiracy. To debunkers it's implied, but hardly any CTs actually make it explicit.

Every so often you'll get someone who unironically subscribes to the theory of the International Jew. We do have at least one member of this forum who seems to believe the Bilderbergs are up to something nefarious. And then there's the FOTLs, who seem to believe that all of Western Civilization is complicit in a hoax to deprive them of their freedom and defraud them of their rightful share of civilizational wealth.

tinribmancer, you're asking if there are any CTs that don't appeal to the Illuminati. I'm wondering if you have any examples of CTs that do.


OK, sounds reasonable.

So if thats accurate how is it then, that in the information age one such as our esteemed OP winds up navigating with faulty GPS ?
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Old 7th January 2019, 05:10 PM   #21
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JFK being shot by the dwarf near that one fence.
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Old 7th January 2019, 05:29 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
And the lizard people!

Damn! How could I forget the Lizard People.


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Old 7th January 2019, 05:32 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
OK, sounds reasonable.



So if thats accurate how is it then, that in the information age one such as our esteemed OP winds up navigating with faulty GPS ?
I have no opinion about that.
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Old 7th January 2019, 05:38 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
Damn! How could I forget the Lizard People.
They learned it from the Silence. Whoever they are.
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Old 7th January 2019, 06:01 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Actually, I question the premise of the OP.

Having followed against the mainstream and conspiracy theory claims on several fora over the past decade or so, my impression is that very few CTs actually go so far as to appeal to the Illuminati or similar hidden organizations.

Most of the time, such references actually come from debunkers, who like to argue that such-and-such CT necessarily appeals to the Illuminati. But CT proponents themselves pretty much never say "yes, you're right, the Illuminati is behind it all!" Instead there's a Gish Gallop or a goalpost move or some other avoidance of whatever reality-based gotcha the debunkers have tried to foist.

So to the question, "do conspiracy theories without the Illuminati actually exist?" I'd say the answer is "yes; almost all CTs exist without the Illuminati." The reason for this is that most CTs never get developed to the point where the requirement for a global conspiracy is properly considered and addressed.

I don't think I've ever seen a debunker successfully convince a CT-ist that their conspiracy theory must include a covert global conspiracy. To debunkers it's implied, but hardly any CTs actually make it explicit.

Every so often you'll get someone who unironically subscribes to the theory of the International Jew. We do have at least one member of this forum who seems to believe the Bilderbergs are up to something nefarious. And then there's the FOTLs, who seem to believe that all of Western Civilization is complicit in a hoax to deprive them of their freedom and defraud them of their rightful share of civilizational wealth.

tinribmancer, you're asking if there are any CTs that don't appeal to the Illuminati. I'm wondering if you have any examples of CTs that do.
https://www.theweek.co.uk/62399/what...oes-it-control

Quote:
The Illuminati is also a favourite subject of the widely publicised pro-Donald Trump QAnon conspiracy theory.

QAnon has sought to tie in a host of outlandish conspiracies about subjects ranging from the sinking of the Titanic to a secret CIA propaganda programme in the 1950s and the foundation of the US Federal Reserve central bank, into an overarching story with the Illuminati at its centre.

QAnon may have only surfaced nine months ago, “but its obsession with the Rothschilds, the Illuminati, the CIA’s supposed Operation Mockingbird, JP Morgan and the Titanic revives decades, even centuries, of moth-eaten paranoia”, says the Washington Post.

The open source nature of QAnon, where an anonymous poster called Q shares something for thousands of other people to interpret as they see fit, “means other conspiracy theories fit neatly within QAnon - like ones about false flag shootings, Jewish bankers controlling the world, or the Illuminati”, says Vox.
This is a good history of the origins of the Illuminati CT:

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/2017...ati-conspiracy

Quote:
“So, the concept behind this was that if you give enough contrary points of view on a story, in theory – idealistically – the population at large start looking at these things and think, ‘hang on a minute’,” says Bramwell. “They ask themselves, ‘Can I trust how the information is presented to me?’ It’s an idealistic means of getting people to wake up to the suggested realities that they inhabit – which of course didn’t happen quite in the way they were hoping.”

The chaos of the Illuminati myth did indeed travel far and wide – Wilson and another Playboy writer wrote The Illuminatus! Trilogy which attributed the ‘cover-ups’ of our times – such as who shot John F Kennedy – to the Illuminati. The books became such a surprise cult success that they were made into a stage play in Liverpool, launching the careers of British actors Bill Nighy and Jim Broadbent.
Apparently they control Hip-Hop music:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-th...ody-of-hip-hop

And then finally there is this one-stop clearing house of Illuminati CT's:

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/e...illuminati.htm

Like I said, at some point they're accused of being behind everything.
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Old 7th January 2019, 08:11 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Rest assured.
It mighta been you if you are one of the buncha guys quoted in post 9.

Was it ever you who learned that it really was Ike who coined "Military Industrial Complex" shortly after you wrongly assumed that saying so was some kinda conspiracy theory?


I'm thinking no, and no.
The only person quoted in post 9, other than conspiracy theory sites, is Tinribmancer. That's a pretty small bunch of guys.

Anyway, I certainly don't think that the oft-referred to and oft-cited quote by Ike involves any conspiracy. Whether or not he coined it (though it appears he or his speech writers did), he certainly said it, but I don't recall anyone having disputed this well known fact. e.t.a. My opinion of Ike is not exceptionally high, but I give him credit for this one. I think his warning was apt, and it surprised many people at the time.
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Old 7th January 2019, 08:25 PM   #27
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You give Icke credit? Really? He is a typical woo pusher. Everything is a conspiracy to him. When you chuck enough mud, at least once you might get lucky and hit the target. Icke is to be credited with nothing except having enough cunning to be able to milk money from gullible rubes. He even managed to get his sycophants to fund a media platform for him. Which, surprisingly, went belly up with a lot of the money unaccounted for. He is a conman.
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Old 7th January 2019, 08:30 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Actually, I question the premise of the OP.

Having followed against the mainstream and conspiracy theory claims on several fora over the past decade or so, my impression is that very few CTs actually go so far as to appeal to the Illuminati or similar hidden organizations.

Most of the time, such references actually come from debunkers, who like to argue that such-and-such CT necessarily appeals to the Illuminati. But CT proponents themselves pretty much never say "yes, you're right, the Illuminati is behind it all!" Instead there's a Gish Gallop or a goalpost move or some other avoidance of whatever reality-based gotcha the debunkers have tried to foist.

So to the question, "do conspiracy theories without the Illuminati actually exist?" I'd say the answer is "yes; almost all CTs exist without the Illuminati." The reason for this is that most CTs never get developed to the point where the requirement for a global conspiracy is properly considered and addressed.

I don't think I've ever seen a debunker successfully convince a CT-ist that their conspiracy theory must include a covert global conspiracy. To debunkers it's implied, but hardly any CTs actually make it explicit.

Every so often you'll get someone who unironically subscribes to the theory of the International Jew. We do have at least one member of this forum who seems to believe the Bilderbergs are up to something nefarious. And then there's the FOTLs, who seem to believe that all of Western Civilization is complicit in a hoax to deprive them of their freedom and defraud them of their rightful share of civilizational wealth.

tinribmancer, you're asking if there are any CTs that don't appeal to the Illuminati. I'm wondering if you have any examples of CTs that do.

I disagree. Someone else said the Illuminati is a catch-all term, hardly any tinfoil hatters actually define it, but they most definitely imply it is the bogey man behind everything. 9/11, Bilderberg, The Jews, The EU, NATO, NASA, the Vatican, Microsoft, Google etc etc. These are all the Illuminati. There are loads of conspiracy theories concerning all of the above.
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Old 7th January 2019, 08:31 PM   #29
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Ike.

Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower.

Dwight "Military Industrial Complex" Eisenhower.

Ike. Not Icke. Ike.
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Old 7th January 2019, 09:28 PM   #30
Bubba
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
...I certainly don't think that the oft-referred to and oft-cited quote by Ike involves any conspiracy.

True. It makes no sense. Nonetheless Tinribmancer (apparently having missed the memo) assumed it was some kinda CT, and proceeded to issue an accusation accordingly last year when I mentioned that Ike had coined "Military Industrial Complex".

It was about Ike backing off from his original "Military Congressional Industrial Complex", which sounds more accurate. He certainly was in position to make the observation.
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Old 7th January 2019, 09:46 PM   #31
Bubba
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
The only person quoted in post 9, other than 'conspiracy theory sites', is Tinribmancer. That's a pretty small bunch of guys.

George Washington and others quoted at the links in post 9 were a buncha guys.

By the way in post 9 those 'conspiracy theory sites' you refer to are:


https://www.metabunk.org/context-geo...-exists.t5000/


http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote/...ton_quote_b726


https://founders.archives.gov/docume.../06-02-02-0435

Quote:
“I have heard much of the nefarious, & dangerous plan, & doctrines of the Illuminati,...


...“It was not my intention to doubt that, the Doctrines of the Iluminati, and principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more fully satisfied of this fact than I am....

- George Washington

Quote:
2. The Illuminati was the name of a secret society founded in 1776 in Bavaria by Adam Weishaupt. It had an organization similar to the Freemasons and evinced republican and deistic principles.

-archives.gov

This guy talks about what Washington referred to ie foreign influence.


What You're Not Supposed to Know About America's Founding

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=364cxeR5EAg
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Old 7th January 2019, 10:52 PM   #32
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Nobody cares.
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Old 7th January 2019, 11:22 PM   #33
Elagabalus
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
...What You're Not Supposed to Know About America's Founding

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=364cxeR5EAg
TheJonBirchSociety. Cute.

Best comment:

Quote:
Homeschool your children and do NOT sign their birth/slave citrtificate!
The jokes write themselves ...
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Old 8th January 2019, 12:22 AM   #34
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Beggars can't be choosers: if the only support you can get for your pet CT is from a guy who also believes that Sasquatches are actually aliens, you might have to make space in your theory, just so you can claim that others believe what you believe.
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Old 8th January 2019, 06:25 AM   #35
RolandRat
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Ike.

Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower.

Dwight "Military Industrial Complex" Eisenhower.

Ike. Not Icke. Ike.

Doh, I'm a spanner. late posting after a beer is never a good idea.
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Old 8th January 2019, 07:38 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
Doh, I'm a spanner. late posting after a beer is never a good idea.
Heresy!!!!!!!
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Old 8th January 2019, 08:01 AM   #37
Hans
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Ike.

Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower.

Dwight "Military Industrial Complex" Eisenhower.

Ike. Not Icke. Ike.
[CT mode]

Wait a minute Icke was born on 29 April 1952 .............so where was Ike nine months prior circa August 03 - August 11, 1951?

Hmmmm wait he was the Supreme Commander of NATO - he was in Europe.....

[/CT mode]
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Old 8th January 2019, 10:22 AM   #38
Bubba
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Ike.

Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower.

Dwight "Military Industrial Complex" Eisenhower.

Ike. Not Icke. Ike.




If you hadn't corrected that it mighta become legendary.

Last edited by Bubba; 8th January 2019 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 8th January 2019, 10:48 AM   #39
Bubba
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
TheJonBirchSociety. Cute.

Best comment:



The jokes write themselves ...

Perfect excuse to ignore the historical documents and letters he made his points with.

Next lesson will cover by whom and why you were convinced JBS is worthy of scorn.

Homework: Write a report on this and present it to class.

Labels, timetable and appearances differ but its gradually happening.


Not so funny after all
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Old 8th January 2019, 11:22 AM   #40
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
If you hadn't corrected that it mighta become legendary.
I have no opinion about that.
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