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#1 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,390
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Trapped in a hoax: survivors of conspiracy theories speak out
What happens to those caught up in the toxic lies of conspiracy theorists? The Guardian spoke to five victims whose lives were wrecked by falsehoods
by Ed Pilkington https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...urvivors-truth Interesting article about people who are the subjects of conspiracy theories. |
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Death to Videodrome! Long live the new flesh! |
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#2 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,197
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Without even looking, I'm going to take a wild guess that the article is dedicated to left wingers wronged by right-wingers with not a mention of the reverse.
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#3 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,601
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I got through the intro, and about halfway into the first case study. So far, the article reads like a bad parody of exactly what you predicted. I don't know if the rest of the article continues in the same vein, but I didn't really see a reason to keep reading and find out.
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#4 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 78,255
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Wait, Brianna Wu? You've got to be kidding me.
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#5 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 71,496
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OMG! The article is bad enough but the dismissal by two of our resident alt-whiters is appalling.
If you think there are any Alex Jones equivalents ruining the lives of some innocent white supremacists or Trump supporters or Republicans, then post them instead of pretending this is faux outrage by the left. |
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Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation. |
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#6 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 71,496
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Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation. |
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#7 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 78,255
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#8 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,197
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"I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill |
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#9 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 71,496
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I only loosely followed Gamergate and I don't recall Wu. But no one deserves to be chased out of their homes, jobs, have death threats, all based on made up stories spread on 4Chan and by Alex Jones.
And I challenge him to find any CT victims on the right. Open the discussion up instead of complaining based on false equivalency. There are some SJW attacks on right wingers, I don't think they reach the level of harassment noted in the article. But fine, let's hear about them. People that support Trump and often complain about minorities and liberals. You weren't included, you posted while I was composing. |
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Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation. |
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#10 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 1,040
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One of the subjects was a doctor targeted by anti-vax CTers, which doesn't really break along the typical political divides. Anti-vax enjoys loons from both sides of the aisle and is especially common among affluent, crunchy lefty types as well as right-wing anti government types.
I'll agree that Wu doesn't really belong on the same list. She was certainly a target of internet lynch mobs and trolls, but I would categorize gamergate as more of a culture war than a true CT. Including her isn't so bad given that the tactics of internet harassment and threats are pretty similar. |
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Gobble gobble |
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#11 |
Fiend God
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#12 |
"más divertido"
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 19,249
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I had read the first two profiles when this article came out a few weeks ago. Skimming through it again, I don't understand what is left/right about this. Declaring that this article fits one's preconceptions about left/right while simultaneously declaring proudly that one didn't actually finish the article before posting here is ... odd?
I didn't understand what the gamergate thing was doing in the article, but the author says that the whole thing started when she tweeted about some CT believers in her industry. Whether the CT was the alleged affair that someone had remains unclear to me, and I really don't want to know. If it is, that's not what most of us understand a conspiracy theory to be; sounds more like rumor-mongering or slander. |
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#13 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
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Or indeed, that one didn't even start reading it. But it seems a logical conclusion of conspiratorial / tribalistic thinking; if one assumes that all of society is polarised into the political left and the political right, that these two groups are implacably opposed to each other, that one's own group is the only one that has any moral or factual validity, and that the opposing group is conspiring to obscure that validity, then one has only to identify the proximate source of a narrative to determine that the narrative either is biased against one's own side, and therefore entirely fabricated, or is entirely factual, and therefore supports one's own position. It saves all that tiresome business of engaging in the process of rational skepticism and assessing accounts on the basis of how well they agree with other evidence. It's clearly a superior approach for some people, because thinking is quite hard work. As is reading.
Dave |
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right? Tony Szamboti: That is right |
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#14 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
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#15 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 21,710
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The left? What is this "left" some people keep taking about?
Hans |
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If you love life, you must accept the traces it leaves. |
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#16 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,601
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From the intro and first profile:
The article is explicitly framed as left/right. |
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#17 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#18 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,197
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Didn't finish it? I never started it, I never even clicked the link because I knew what I'd find. But let's see if my prediction holds true; one point for a leftist victim or rightist persecutor, zero points for no political slant, minus one point for a rightist victim or leftist persecutor.
1) The victim is a self-described “non-binary gay queer autistic commie.” +1 2) The persecutors were followers of "Alex Jones and Infowars". We don't know about the victim. +1 3) OK, no political slant here. 0 4) Brianna Wu, leftist feminist poster girl vs the conservative right misogynists. +1 5) The baddies here are far right Hilary haters +1 So, on the scale of -5 to +5 I scored a solid +4. You say you don't know what's left or right about this, that's a fair question. It's also one you should address to the Guardian, not me. |
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"I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill |
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#19 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,149
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I'd say the prediction that the victims would be more on the left and the conspiracy mongers on the right was correct. Not because of bias from the publisher but because, while false accusations and conspiracies exist along the political spectrum, the business of sizeable outlets and communities unapologetically pushing conspiracy theory is just so much bigger on the right.
There is no leftwing "infowars" that is comparable in scale, unfounded craziness and impact. |
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The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON |
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#20 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
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Yes, all of it.
Explain to me, please, how you discerned the leftist political affiliations of Lenny Pozner, Dr. Paul Offett and James Alefantis from the article, and where the claims are made that their attackers are from the political right. In particular, the accusation of Nazism levelled at Dr. Offett seems an unlikely one for a right wing attacker to level at a leftist. Dave |
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right? Tony Szamboti: That is right |
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#21 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,197
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It's true that the far left can't organise, but why use 'sizeable outlets' as a criterion? Is somebody whose life is destroyed by a Twitter mob of 10,000 leftists more privileged than the person whose life is destroyed by a mob of 10,000 rightists purely on the basis the latter are more coherently structured?
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"I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill |
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#22 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
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I don't know how you would quantify something like this, but I tend to agree. There are certainly plenty of CT's that are apolitical, and there are some CT's that are popular among lefty types, but I don't see anything on the left anywhere near the abundance of explicitly right-wing political CT's that exist. Birtherism, Pizzagate, QAnon, Benghazi, false flag mass shootings... the list goes on.
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Gobble gobble |
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#23 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,149
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Instead of continuing to kvetch, why not educate us as you have already been invited to do? Name some right wing people destroyed by left wing conspiracy theories.
I mean this seriously, I'm sure some exist. If you seriously have a problem with lack of balance in this thread, why not fix it? |
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The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON |
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#24 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,197
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"I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill |
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#25 |
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,459
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#26 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,459
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#27 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#28 | ||||||
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,459
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No, not really. They do it all the time. Their opponents don't even have to be leftists. They do it against moderate liberals, too: BILLIONAIRE WHO COMPARED OBAMA TO HITLER OFFENDED THAT PEOPLE ARE CALLING HIM A NAZI (Vanity Fair, Sep. 12, 2017)
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#29 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#30 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,459
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#31 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,459
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#32 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 71,496
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Wow
![]() Yep, there are people that lost their jobs like that person and there was the scientist with exposed cartoon women on his shirt who lost his job. And there was that guy who said women make bad lab partners because they cry if you criticize their work. What was the CT involved? OK I give up, what left right framing? ![]() |
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Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation. |
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#33 |
No longer the 1
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 19,879
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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#34 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
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#35 |
Philosopher
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Posts: 8,197
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"I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill |
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#36 |
Rotten to the Core
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,863
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Is this the Smollett thread?
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All You Need Is Love. |
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#37 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,548
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Ah I get it. Reprehensible behaviour is OK if you have political sympathies with the perpetrators. It's OK to be a bit racist - making jokes about minorities is fine as long as no-one's burning crosses, is that it?
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Facts are simple and facts are straight, facts are lazy and facts are late, facts don't come with points of view, facts don't do what I want them to. ************************** Apollo Hoax Debunked |
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#38 |
Fiend God
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#39 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,197
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"I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill |
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#40 |
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