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Old 4th February 2019, 03:50 PM   #81
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Both odd and textbook trolling.
Indeed.
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Old 4th February 2019, 04:16 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Without even looking, I'm going to take a wild guess that the article is dedicated to left wingers wronged by right-wingers with not a mention of the reverse.
Gee, that approach must save you a lot of time! Here I am feeling obligated to read an article, etc. before criticizing it. Even worse, I feel obligated to read the entire article if I am going to offer an opinion. I even feel the same way about posts in the Forum. Ugh- I'm am such a dweeb!
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Old 4th February 2019, 04:30 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I found the article illuminating. It humanized the real cost of CT-ist echo chambers on people's lives.
Me too. Also, the speed with which these things now propagate is completely insane.
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Old 4th February 2019, 05:18 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
What, and Brianna Wu didn't do or say anything? She was minding her own business when she was randomly selected for harassment by the Giant Rightist Conspiracy Theory Machine?

How about the Catholic kids who were targeted by the entire leftist mainstream media, with outright lies broadcast about them internationally in an effort to demonise them and wreck their lives?


You use some very selective definitions when it suits.
You do not even seem to understand what a Consipracy Theory is. None of ANYTHING you are talking about has anything whatsoever to do with Conspiracy Theories.

CTs are when something (usually, but not always bad) happens, and a bunch of mindless jerks decide that it was faked and that there is a massive cover up, (because reasons) and/or that the real perpetrators were either a secret government agency or organization, or a private organizations such as NWO, Illuminati, Freemasons, Bilderberg Group.

Examples of Conspiracy Theories are

- 9/11 was an inside job (Truthers)
- JFK/RFK/MLK were assassinated by the US Govt/Cuba/Cuban Rebels/Mafia/NWO/Deep State
- Obama is not American (Birthers)
- The Moon Landings were faked
- Sandy Hook was a hoax
- Boston Bombings was a false flag

The Catholic kids/BHI/Native America fracas of a coupe of weeks ago is ABSOLUTELY NOT a conspiracy theory however much you would like to re-characterize it as such!
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Old 4th February 2019, 05:19 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Gee, that approach must save you a lot of time! Here I am feeling obligated to read an article, etc. before criticizing it. Even worse, I feel obligated to read the entire article if I am going to offer an opinion. I even feel the same way about posts in the Forum. Ugh- I'm am such a dweeb!
Yeah, but the right don't need to research... they just "know stuff" without looking
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Old 4th February 2019, 05:23 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
I'd say the prediction that the victims would be more on the left and the conspiracy mongers on the right was correct. Not because of bias from the publisher but because, while false accusations and conspiracies exist along the political spectrum, the business of sizeable outlets and communities unapologetically pushing conspiracy theory is just so much bigger on the right.

There is no leftwing "infowars" that is comparable in scale, unfounded craziness and impact.
OK, maybe not in scale but there's always Jimmy Dore on Youtube. Fake Syrian bomb attacks anyone?
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Old 4th February 2019, 05:58 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I found the article illuminating. It humanized the real cost of CT-ist echo chambers on people's lives.
Indeed, I has read about these victims before but there were a couple of new ones and their stories are just as horrid.

That the first reply about this article was an outright handwaving dismissal of these stories simply because their political fee-fees might be hurt would be bad enough in USA Politics, but that it happened in Conspiracy Theories is appalling. Frankly some folks should be ashamed of their defense of that position.

Times were the origin or side of a CT might be mentioned but never used as a way to dismiss debunkings or stories like this. At least not by the avid members of this subforum who actively worked at critical thinking.

Now I would swear the spirit of BeAChooser and Robert Prey have infected some posters in this thread.

What the hell happened.
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Old 4th February 2019, 07:03 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You would have to consider Alex Jones left wing to believe that.

These guys have one thing in common, they are suspicious of the government. Now that there is a right wing CTer in the White House I imagine they are having a bit of cognitive dissonance.
Which is why I used the word "most" instead of "all".

Quote:
This is just crap. No one cares Oswald was a commie, the assassination CTs are all about different groups/people that killed JFK. Pretty sure they believe Oswald was a pawn.
I'm sorry, I left out the part where I emphasized that I was a JFK-CT nutjob for 25 years in which time I read all of the CT books from Lane to Mars. I point to Oliver Stone as a left-wing CTist. Mark Lane was a leftist CTist. One produced a movie about the assassination and the other almost single-handedly spread the conspiracy theories.

And yes, some people can't deal with the fact that Oswald was a Communist because it conflicts with their pie-in-the-sky version of what and who a Communist is. The KGB also advanced theories in the 1970's to this end.

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I suspect you don't know a lot of anti-vaxxers.
Thank God, I be in jail for assault.
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Old 4th February 2019, 07:06 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You do not even seem to understand what a Consipracy Theory is. None of ANYTHING you are talking about has anything whatsoever to do with Conspiracy Theories.

CTs are when something (usually, but not always bad) happens, and a bunch of mindless jerks decide that it was faked and that there is a massive cover up, (because reasons) and/or that the real perpetrators were either a secret government agency or organization, or a private organizations such as NWO, Illuminati, Freemasons, Bilderberg Group.

Examples of Conspiracy Theories are

- 9/11 was an inside job (Truthers)
- JFK/RFK/MLK were assassinated by the US Govt/Cuba/Cuban Rebels/Mafia/NWO/Deep State
- Obama is not American (Birthers)
- The Moon Landings were faked
- Sandy Hook was a hoax
- Boston Bombings was a false flag

The Catholic kids/BHI/Native America fracas of a coupe of weeks ago is ABSOLUTELY NOT a conspiracy theory however much you would like to re-characterize it as such!
You have more patience than I do.
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Old 4th February 2019, 07:08 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
OK, maybe not in scale but there's always Jimmy Dore on Youtube. Fake Syrian bomb attacks anyone?
Who the hell is Dore and how are fake Syrian bombs something left wing?
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Old 4th February 2019, 07:09 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The video Loose Change pretty much single handedly started the 9/11 CT.
No.

It started with the book: L'Effroyable imposture (The Big Lie), written by Thierry Meyssan published in 2002.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11:_The_Big_Lie

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/22/w...in-france.html

Quote:
He claims the Pentagon was not hit by a plane, but by a guided missile fired on orders of far right-wingers inside the United States government. Further, he says, the planes that struck the World Trade Center were not flown by associates of Osama bin Laden, but were programmed by the same government people to fly into the twin towers.

What really interests him, though, is what he sees as the conspiracy behind these actions. He contends that it was organized by right-wing elements inside the government who were planning a coup unless President Bush agreed to increase military spending and go to war against Afghanistan and Iraq to promote the conspirators' oil interests.

To achieve their goals, the theory goes, they blamed Osama bin Laden for Sept. 11 and later broadened their targets to include the ''axis of evil,'' centered on Iraq.
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Old 4th February 2019, 07:15 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
No.

It started with the book: L'Effroyable imposture (The Big Lie), written by Thierry Meyssan published in 2002.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11:_The_Big_Lie

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/22/w...in-france.html
I'm not going to argue this crap it's off topic but the video going viral started a movement. That someone wrote a book with the CT doesn't mean anything except that we are defining 'initiating the CT' using different criteria.

I agree to disagree.
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Old 4th February 2019, 07:53 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Indeed, I has read about these victims before but there were a couple of new ones and their stories are just as horrid.



That the first reply about this article was an outright handwaving dismissal of these stories simply because their political fee-fees might be hurt would be bad enough in USA Politics, but that it happened in Conspiracy Theories is appalling. Frankly some folks should be ashamed of their defense of that position.



Times were the origin or side of a CT might be mentioned but never used as a way to dismiss debunkings or stories like this. At least not by the avid members of this subforum who actively worked at critical thinking.



Now I would swear the spirit of BeAChooser and Robert Prey have infected some posters in this thread.



What the hell happened.


This seems to be a somewhat isolated incident, thankfully.
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Old 4th February 2019, 07:55 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I'm not going to argue this crap it's off topic but the video going viral started a movement. That someone wrote a book with the CT doesn't mean anything except that we are defining 'initiating the CT' using different criteria.



I agree to disagree.


You can agree that you are wrong. You don’t get to redefine “single handedly” and “started” for the rest of us English speakers, just because you misspoke or don’t know what the hell you are talking about.
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Old 4th February 2019, 08:03 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Who the hell is Dore and how are fake Syrian bombs something left wing?
Jimmy Dore is a leftwing comedian who does commentary and analysis with The Young Turks, a news outlet popular with millennials and run by Cenk Uygur, a (very good) journalist who used to be with MSNBC.

Looks like Dore did totally fall off the deep end on Syria.
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Old 4th February 2019, 08:13 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
You can agree that you are wrong. You don’t get to redefine “single handedly” and “started” for the rest of us English speakers, just because you misspoke or don’t know what the hell you are talking about.
There was a thriving online truther community long before Loose Change. Stuff like this was going super viral in 2002/2003 on all the conspiracy boards. http://www.theppsc.org/Archives/Terr...ted_Invest.htm
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Old 4th February 2019, 08:30 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Without even looking, I'm going to take a wild guess . . .
Great skeptical approach there.
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Old 4th February 2019, 08:34 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
There was a thriving online truther community long before Loose Change. Stuff like this was going super viral in 2002/2003 on all the conspiracy boards. http://www.theppsc.org/Archives/Terr...ted_Invest.htm
That's what I originally said, that on the 13th of September I was briefed by my bookstore owner friend about all the faxes he'd received alleging 9-11 was staged by Bush-Chimpey-NWO, etc.
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Old 4th February 2019, 09:24 PM   #99
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If you want to hear left wing conspiracy theories, there are plenty being expounded on this forum. You don’t even have to look very hard. The problem is that there is no point in bringing them up here because so many members wholeheartedly buy into them and gum up the USA Politics and Social Issues subs.

But I’ll give you an easy one: Donald Trump is dangerously mentally ill and only a brave group of rouge health professionals is exposing the truth.


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Old 4th February 2019, 09:36 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
That's what I originally said, that on the 13th of September I was briefed by my bookstore owner friend about all the faxes he'd received alleging 9-11 was staged by Bush-Chimpey-NWO, etc.
I know. I was agreeing with y'all.

Personally, I tuned into Coast to Coast the night of 9/11 curious to hear any alternative theories, and was disappointed that they were just saying the same thing CNN was saying. LOL
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Old 4th February 2019, 09:39 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
If you want to hear left wing conspiracy theories, there are plenty being expounded on this forum. You don’t even have to look very hard. The problem is that there is no point in bringing them up here because so many members wholeheartedly buy into them and gum up the USA Politics and Social Issues subs.

But I’ll give you an easy one: Donald Trump is dangerously mentally ill and only a brave group of rouge health professionals is exposing the truth.


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Where's the conspiracy there?

I'm pretty sure if you were to poll psychiatrists, most would say they personally think he's a narcissist and/or has antisocial personality disorder.
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Old 4th February 2019, 10:28 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
If you want to hear left wing conspiracy theories, there are plenty being expounded on this forum. You don’t even have to look very hard. The problem is that there is no point in bringing them up here because so many members wholeheartedly buy into them and gum up the USA Politics and Social Issues subs.

But I’ll give you an easy one: Donald Trump is dangerously mentally ill and only a brave group of rouge health professionals is exposing the truth.
Your post is lacking a factual basis.

You're still so sore at being wrong on the Trump is mentally ill thread you're even dragging it over here.

Tell me, is it Trump you feel is the victim of that left wing CT?
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Old 4th February 2019, 11:43 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
If you want to hear left wing conspiracy theories, there are plenty being expounded on this forum. You don’t even have to look very hard. The problem is that there is no point in bringing them up here because so many members wholeheartedly buy into them and gum up the USA Politics and Social Issues subs.

But I’ll give you an easy one: Donald Trump is dangerously mentally ill and only a brave group of rouge health professionals is exposing the truth.


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Boy you got that part right! But this belongs in the other thread as Skeptic Ginger pointed out.
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Old 5th February 2019, 01:50 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The two that come to mind are anti-vax (which is not political, but certainly popular among the new-age woo types) and 9/11 trutherism.
And one of the conspiracy theories focused on in the article is anti-vax. So, amazingly, it's not all right wingers victimising the left. Funny, that.

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Old 5th February 2019, 02:13 AM   #105
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Recently I've come to the conclusion that left-wingers and right-wingers have their own psychological profiles. They tend to fall for different logical fallacies.

Just like men are drawn to technical woo and your holocaust-denial conference fills up with sad dudes, and women like vague woo, filling the ranks of the local New-Age centre. So Right-wingers like are drawn to conspiracies (that actually fit the definition of conspiracy theory), left-wingers have a less easily defined bias that recasts any structure of competence and order as evil and anything that stands in opposition to the powers that be as brave rebels or noble savages.

The end result for those under the microscope is the same. it doesn't matter if 4Chan declared your pizza-restaurant the suspected scene of democrat child-abuse or that a million lefties on Twitter think that you smiled in a very racist way and need to be doxed and hunted down. You still have to move out of your house.
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Old 5th February 2019, 03:16 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Gee, that approach must save you a lot of time! Here I am feeling obligated to read an article, etc. before criticizing it. Even worse, I feel obligated to read the entire article if I am going to offer an opinion. I even feel the same way about posts in the Forum. Ugh- I'm am such a dweeb!
Sure you would. I bet if someone linked to the Daily Stormer (or whatever) you'd give the article your full consideration before assuming you knew what politics it conveyed.
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Old 5th February 2019, 05:40 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Me too. Also, the speed with which these things now propagate is completely insane.

I think the Catholic School kid in the video with the Native American might qualify in a few years. I wouldn't be surprised, but it's a little early to call that one yet.
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Old 5th February 2019, 05:52 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
For the record, I consider you right wing but not alt-right.
That's slightly amusing. I collect those, by the way. I'll put yours on my wall right next to logger's accusation that I'm a left-wing extremist.

For my record, I'm a centrist. I equally despise both "sides" so long as they play sides.

ETA: Also for the record:



Quote:
You would have to consider Alex Jones left wing to believe that.
How does that compute? You would have to consider a single CTer left-wing in order to believe that most 9-11 CTers are left-wing? How does that work?
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Old 5th February 2019, 05:53 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
Recently I've come to the conclusion that left-wingers and right-wingers have their own psychological profiles. They tend to fall for different logical fallacies.

Just like men are drawn to technical woo and your holocaust-denial conference fills up with sad dudes, and women like vague woo, filling the ranks of the local New-Age centre. So Right-wingers like are drawn to conspiracies (that actually fit the definition of conspiracy theory), left-wingers have a less easily defined bias that recasts any structure of competence and order as evil and anything that stands in opposition to the powers that be as brave rebels or noble savages.

The end result for those under the microscope is the same. it doesn't matter if 4Chan declared your pizza-restaurant the suspected scene of democrat child-abuse or that a million lefties on Twitter think that you smiled in a very racist way and need to be doxed and hunted down. You still have to move out of your house.
^this.
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Old 5th February 2019, 07:53 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
Recently I've come to the conclusion that left-wingers and right-wingers have their own psychological profiles. They tend to fall for different logical fallacies.
I think that's true, and worth considering here; but there's a deeper fallacy in play, which is the belief that everything and everyone can be viewed in the ontext of left and right wing, and left- and right-wingers. I have no more or less sympathy for the decent Republicans smeared by 9/11 conspiracy theories than for the decent Democrats smeared by Pizzagate. The issue is not about left or right, but about truth or fantasy, and about resonable diligence or reckless gullibility. Framing everything here as left vs. right is simply yet another attempt to cast everything into the my-tribe-are-victims narrative, and makes no attempt to determine who actually is being victimised.

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Old 5th February 2019, 08:37 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Sure you would. I bet if someone linked to the Daily Stormer (or whatever) you'd give the article your full consideration before assuming you knew what politics it conveyed.
Ah, but here we see very the dangers of commenting on a post or link without reading it completely! You quoted my own post but apparently did not read the highlighted parts:

[i]Here I am feeling obligated to read an article, etc. before criticizing it. Even worse, I feel obligated to read the entire article if I am going to offer an opinion. I even feel the same way about posts in the Forum.

True, not only do I assume I know what politics would be in an article in the Daily Stormer, I would not even bother to click on a link to an article at that site for the same reasons I do not willing step in dog poop. But (and I hope you are reading this far into my current post) I would not comment on it or offer an opinion in a public setting such as on it on the Forum. For that I do feel an obligation to know what I am commenting on.

Last edited by Giordano; 5th February 2019 at 09:10 AM. Reason: grammatical correction
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Old 5th February 2019, 09:03 AM   #112
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LTDR for me.
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Old 5th February 2019, 09:11 AM   #113
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TIL: Apparently is fine and dandy that people's lives are being destroyed by conspiracy theory cranks if they are mostly on 'the other side' and you don't like the political tone of an article portraying what they are going through.
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Old 5th February 2019, 09:16 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I think the Catholic School kid in the video with the Native American might qualify in a few years. I wouldn't be surprised, but it's a little early to call that one yet.
I read one news aggregator website that is a little click-baity at times. I have seen this kid and his smirk and the headline that he is "not sorry" every other day since it happened. That doesn't bode well for people hoping to fade into anonymity after their 15 minutes are up.
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Old 5th February 2019, 09:18 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
TIL: Apparently is fine and dandy that people's lives are being destroyed by conspiracy theory cranks if they are mostly on 'the other side' and you don't like the political tone of an article portraying what they are going through.
Did anyone here say or imply this?
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Old 5th February 2019, 09:23 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Did anyone here say or imply this?
2nd post. Zero concern for victims, much more viritol for the article.
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Old 5th February 2019, 09:26 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Ah, but here we see very the dangers of commenting on a post or link without reading it completely! You quoted my own post but apparently did not read the highlighted parts:

[i]Here I am feeling obligated to read an article, etc. before criticizing it. Even worse, I feel obligated to read the entire article if I am going to offer an opinion. I even feel the same way about posts in the Forum.

True, not only do I assume I know what politics would be in an article in the Daily Stormer, I would not even bother to click on a link to an article at that site for the same reasons I do not willing step in dog poop. But (and I hope you are reading this far into my current post) I would not comment on it or offer an opinion in a public setting such as on it on the Forum. For that I do feel an obligation to know what I am commenting on.
You mean to say that if someone linked to a Daily Stormer article you wouldn't post something along the lines of "I'm not reading that crap, it's a bunch of far right garbage"? Because that's essentially all I said aside from switching the politics around. And the best part of it - I was right.
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Old 5th February 2019, 09:28 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
2nd post. Zero concern for victims, much more viritol for the article.
Come now, I was in floods of tears for the victims, just like you are now.
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Old 5th February 2019, 09:36 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
2nd post. Zero concern for victims, much more viritol for the article.
Still doesn't support your claim. You're extrapolating.
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Old 5th February 2019, 09:58 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Still doesn't support your claim. You're extrapolating.
Maybe. But when someone complains about the politics of an article without even reading it and without a note of sympathy for the people being harassed its obvious where their concerns lie.

Complaining about the source or political bent of an article without addressing its points was a tactic 9/11 Truthers used all the time.
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