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Old 12th June 2019, 01:14 PM   #3041
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Yes but you are aware that people here who are okay with egging don't look at it the same way you do. They may not consider it an "extreme" form of violence fit only for the worst examples of mankind, but rather just an exceptionally annoying but otherwise harmless method of expressing condemnation.
OK, so egging is now just another way of expressing condemnation? That's gotta widen the field of potential egging victims way beyond just "nazis."
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Old 12th June 2019, 02:01 PM   #3042
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Here's something many of the commentators in this and related threads don't appear to be getting in their fetishizing of certain, specific social principles and creating a hierarchy of rights:

Advocating for the murder, enslavement, oppression, marginalization, and/or disenfranchisement of groups of people based on their ethnic origin, sexual preference, gender identity, or socioeconomic class is incompatible with a free society that supports individual liberty.

There can be no true freedom, no true justice, in the sort of society proposed by such people, only levels of privilege and oppression.

To support their words, and advocate for their right to spread their propaganda, one is indirectly supporting the destruction of free society.

For those who support a free society that protects individual liberty, there can be disagreement on how best to achieve and maintain such a society; but compromising with those who would tear down and eliminate freedom and individual liberty for any of its members will do nothing to establish or preserve such a society, only destroy it.
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Old 12th June 2019, 05:24 PM   #3043
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
It's a novel argument, "Yes but Islamic terrorists do that too"
Novel? I think it's a very obvious argument to make if someone suggests that we're not going to have anybody who will run us over with cars or blow us up if we get rid of all the white nationalists.

Quote:
But it makes a perverted sense as an attack on liberals if one assumes all Muslims support terrorism.
That doesn't make any sense.
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Old 12th June 2019, 10:33 PM   #3044
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Here's something many of the commentators in this and related threads don't appear to be getting in their fetishizing of certain, specific social principles and creating a hierarchy of rights:

Advocating for the murder, enslavement, oppression, marginalization, and/or disenfranchisement of groups of people based on their ethnic origin, sexual preference, gender identity, or socioeconomic class is incompatible with a free society that supports individual liberty.
This is why many of us have said that the US has been more or less a democracy (there are *very* important questions concerning the rights of felons) since the mid-late 1960s, and pretty much an outright fascist state for most of it's history.

Quote:
There can be no true freedom, no true justice, in the sort of society proposed by such people, only levels of privilege and oppression.

To support their words, and advocate for their right to spread their propaganda, one is indirectly supporting the destruction of free society.
And in fact, most of them are quite open about their hatred of freedoms like speech and association (see anti-BLM or anti LGBT pride folks, neo-nazis, and the like), or the right to vote (the current GOP in the US). As you've noted, these things can quickly devolve into widespread, severe violence as well.
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Old 13th June 2019, 02:06 AM   #3045
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Here's something many of the commentators in this and related threads don't appear to be getting in their fetishizing of certain, specific social principles and creating a hierarchy of rights:

Advocating for the murder, enslavement, oppression, marginalization, and/or disenfranchisement of groups of people based on their ethnic origin, sexual preference, gender identity, or socioeconomic class is incompatible with a free society that supports individual liberty.

There can be no true freedom, no true justice, in the sort of society proposed by such people, only levels of privilege and oppression.
The obvious solution to that is to throw eggs at them to not let this sort of ideology take power.
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Old 13th June 2019, 02:40 AM   #3046
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
The obvious solution to that is to throw eggs at them to not let this sort of ideology take power.
An over-arm ovum or zinged zygote, and milkshake throwing, to me, seems like someone's solution to exactly that problem, drawing attention to the current uptick in this ideology by marking the offenders.

You can argue, as you have, that it's not the best way, but it's still one way.
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Old 13th June 2019, 03:34 AM   #3047
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
So nazi = white nationalist = Trump voter = 90% of Republicans is not a slope?
Not much of one. I mean they already like concentration camps for kids with no education and the like.
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Old 13th June 2019, 04:04 AM   #3048
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Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
An over-arm ovum or zinged zygote, and milkshake throwing, to me, seems like someone's solution to exactly that problem, drawing attention to the current uptick in this ideology by marking the offenders.

You can argue, as you have, that it's not the best way, but it's still one way.
I'm not arguing that it's not the best way. I'm arguing that it's counter-productive and illegal.
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Old 13th June 2019, 06:32 AM   #3049
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Not much of one. I mean they already like concentration camps for kids with no education and the like.

Nothing new there, the US has always been fond of concentration camps. Only in the past we've called them "reservations" and "internment camps".
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Old 13th June 2019, 10:34 AM   #3050
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I'm not arguing that it's not the best way.
Why not? Even I'll argue that it's not even close to the best way. I just think it's funny.
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Old 13th June 2019, 10:36 AM   #3051
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Why not?
What do you mean why not? I'm stating the simple fact that it isn't my argument.
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Old 13th June 2019, 11:36 AM   #3052
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Not much of one. I mean they already like concentration camps for kids with no education and the like.
Could you expand on that a little further? I'm not sure what this is in reference to.
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Old 13th June 2019, 11:39 AM   #3053
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
Could you expand on that a little further? I'm not sure what this is in reference to.
Trump and those who support him of course. See

https://www.washingtonpost.com/immig...=.94182aaac68c
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Old 13th June 2019, 12:06 PM   #3054
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Your post was unclear. You said "concentration camps for children with no education and the like." Which sounds like like kids with no education are being rounded up and put in camps.
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Old 13th June 2019, 12:09 PM   #3055
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Your post was unclear. You said "concentration camps for children with no education and the like." Which sounds like like kids with no education are being rounded up and put in camps.
That wouldn't be good news to conservatives.
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Old 13th June 2019, 12:28 PM   #3056
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
That wouldn't be good news to conservatives.
lol
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Old 13th June 2019, 01:29 PM   #3057
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Got it the not at all nazi white supremacists who are good folks and who supporting is not a character flaw. It is a shame to paint all white supremacists with the same brush.
Nazis and zionists don’t like being painted with the same white supremacist brush but if the jackboot fits....there’s no shame in calling it as it is.
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Old Yesterday, 02:21 AM   #3058
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What I love about that post is this:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Quote:
So any racist or bigoted ideology is equivalent with nazis.
Got it the not at all nazi white supremacists who are good folks and who supporting is not a character flaw. It is a shame to paint all white supremacists with the same brush.
Turtle's so lost in his strawmen that he's even interpreting something as its exact opposite.
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Old Yesterday, 03:51 AM   #3059
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time well spent
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Old Yesterday, 07:00 AM   #3060
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Nonsense, just like they eggs you are provoking them into violence by challenging them. See the killing of Alan Berg for an example of this.

"A former producer of Berg's believed that he was on a "death list" both because he was Jewish and had challenged, on the air, the beliefs of members of the Christian Identity movement, who believed Jews were descended from Satan.[7] At the trial for his murder, prosecutors contended that he was singled out for assassination because he was a Jew and because his personality incurred the anger of white supremacists.[8][7][9][10] At the conspiracy trial of members of The Order, the white supremacist organization responsible for organizing the assassination, a founding member of the group, Denver Daw Parmenter, was asked why Berg was targeted. Parmenter responded that Berg "was mainly thought to be anti-white and he was Jewish".[11] Berg's remains were buried at the Waldheim Jewish Cemetery in Forest Park, Illinois.[12]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Berg

Yes, if you run around being Jewish, you can't expect nazis not to be provoked by it!
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Old Yesterday, 07:07 AM   #3061
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Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
An over-arm ovum or zinged zygote, and milkshake throwing, to me, seems like someone's solution to exactly that problem, drawing attention to the current uptick in this ideology by marking the offenders.

You can argue, as you have, that it's not the best way, but it's still one way.

There's a new alternative to egging and milkshaking:

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I AGREE
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old Yesterday, 10:11 AM   #3062
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Here's something many of the commentators in this and related threads don't appear to be getting in their fetishizing of certain, specific social principles and creating a hierarchy of rights:

Advocating for the murder, enslavement, oppression, marginalization, and/or disenfranchisement of groups of people based on their ethnic origin, sexual preference, gender identity, or socioeconomic class is incompatible with a free society that supports individual liberty.

There can be no true freedom, no true justice, in the sort of society proposed by such people, only levels of privilege and oppression.

To support their words, and advocate for their right to spread their propaganda, one is indirectly supporting the destruction of free society.

For those who support a free society that protects individual liberty, there can be disagreement on how best to achieve and maintain such a society; but compromising with those who would tear down and eliminate freedom and individual liberty for any of its members will do nothing to establish or preserve such a society, only destroy it.
What actions are you taking to make it illegal to espouse nazi ideology? Are you actively trying to make this happen? Have you written your representatives? Have you circulated petitions? Have you organized with like-minded people to try and gain critical mass? This concept has barely been touched on in this thread. I've posed this question (not to you in particular) several times. Crickets.

Or is fetishizing vigilantism the first option? (Feeble vigilantism at that.)

I'm of the opinion that egging (and other forms of assault / vigilantism) is counterproductive. I don't think it deters nazis or adjacents. I don't think it accomplishes anything positive. If I were to employ the pathetic debate tactics used by you, Checkmite, and others, I could saddle up a righteous high horse and accuse eggers of empowering nazis and adjacents, by virtue of engaging in a counterproductive activity. That sounds like loads of fun.
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Old Yesterday, 10:26 AM   #3063
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
What actions are you taking to make it illegal to espouse nazi ideology? Are you actively trying to make this happen? Have you written your representatives? Have you circulated petitions? Have you organized with like-minded people to try and gain critical mass? This concept has barely been touched on in this thread. I've posed this question (not to you in particular) several times. Crickets.

Or is fetishizing vigilantism the first option? (Feeble vigilantism at that.)
Keyboard warring?
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Old Yesterday, 10:42 AM   #3064
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Given the Nazis' historical propensity towards political violence, I think that political violence against Nazis is more likely than not going to encourage them to respond more forcefully in kind. I think the Berkeley-Charlottesville dynamic illustrates this.

Keep egging "nazis", and sooner or later you're going to have a band of skinheads peacefully sieg-heiling down the street, daring any antifa goon to start some violence. Sooner or later, a literal Nazi is going to win a self-defense case against an antifa goon, because while he threw the first punch, the antifa goon threw the first egg.

Then we get to see how it escalates from there.
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Old Yesterday, 12:55 PM   #3065
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Otherwise they would never have considered becoming violent. Their "historical propensity towards political violence" need to be triggered by eggs, otherwise you'd never see "a band of skinheads peacefully sieg-heiling down the street, daring any antifa goon to start some violence."
So the antifas are the ones who trigger their 'historical propensity'. Otherwise, they'd be pussycats.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old Yesterday, 01:28 PM   #3066
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Keep egging "nazis", and sooner or later you're going to have a band of skinheads peacefully sieg-heiling down the street, daring any antifa goon to start some violence.
This happened during the Pride festivities in Detroit. The skinheads peacefully sieg-heiling down the street (while carrying firearms) and daring any antifa goon to start some violence were provoked not by the throwing of any egg, but by the mere existence of Pride festivities and LGBT individuals not being ashamed to self-identify publicly. Quoth the white-nationalist organizer of the incident,

Quote:
NSM will be armed and counter-protesting the freaks. NSM, lets put some boots on the ground!! I don’t really give a damn about op-sec or Antifa in this situation. We go in with Swastikas blazing and if people don’t like it, tough ****...
Nazis don't need eggs to be "provoked". Eggings and milkshakings don't add even so much as a single ounce of fuel to the raging fire.

Honestly in a world where Pittsburgh, Christchurch, and Poway have already happened, arguing that white-nationalists "sooner or later might become violent" if people taunt them too much is like telling a bunch of people splashing around in a swimming pool that if they don't get out of it they might end up wet.
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Old Yesterday, 03:48 PM   #3067
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Nazis don't need eggs to be "provoked". Eggings and milkshakings don't add even so much as a single ounce of fuel to the raging fire.
Eggs and milkshakes also don't put out that raging fire -- I mean literally, yes they could put out a fire, but figuratively they do not.

Seriously though, we shouldn't be adding fuel to a "fire." Deradicalization efforts by various governments do not include violence. They have laws and systems in place to deal with violence, but I think they would rather employ non-violent preventative measures than expect citizens to use violence against these people.
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Old Yesterday, 04:09 PM   #3068
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
Eggs and milkshakes also don't put out that raging fire -- I mean literally, yes they could put out a fire, but figuratively they do not.

Seriously though, we shouldn't be adding fuel to a "fire." Deradicalization efforts by various governments do not include violence. They have laws and systems in place to deal with violence, but I think they would rather employ non-violent preventative measures than expect citizens to use violence against these people.
Can you give an example of any of these murderous bigots getting this treatment, though? From what I've seen, the targets have all been the people who, for profit, tell stories about muslim "rape gangs" attacking hundreds of women in the street, or "Mexican" hordes invading the US with money by George Soros and other bankers (ie. Jews). The guys who never quite say "kill them", but who leave that as the only option.

Since the legal system won't, and often can't, lift a finger against them, and social media sites tend to silence their critics rather than them, this treatment is meant to say "No, you are inspiring for these white nationalist rallies, and these terrorist attacks, and you do it for money. Your looks should match your disgusting words."
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Old Yesterday, 05:10 PM   #3069
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
Could you expand on that a little further? I'm not sure what this is in reference to.
Pondering is referring to the practice of separating parents and children when the parent commits a crime and is taken to jail.
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Old Yesterday, 10:15 PM   #3070
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
This happened during the Pride festivities in Detroit. The skinheads peacefully sieg-heiling down the street (while carrying firearms) and daring any antifa goon to start some violence were provoked not by the throwing of any egg, but by the mere existence of Pride festivities and LGBT individuals not being ashamed to self-identify publicly. Quoth the white-nationalist organizer of the incident,

And, of course, the Unite the Right Charlottesville, were it wasn't even a reaction to anything that existed, but was solely and entirely an excuse for a bunch of wanna-be fascists to flex their muscles, so to speak. The fact that they had heavily armed themselves before the rally even started was incontrovertible evidence of that fact to anyone who had more than two brain cells to rub together; as was the fact that the first thing they did when they began their march was to attack unarmed, non-violent protesters.

Quote:
Nazis don't need eggs to be "provoked". Eggings and milkshakings don't add even so much as a single ounce of fuel to the raging fire.

"You made me do it," is just such an infantile response that it's difficult to believe anyone here is seriously claiming that it is a significant real-world motivation for the white nationalist terrorists. Seriously, are those people still in grammar school? I mean seriously, the fact that non-white minorities, liberals, queers, and other "undesirables" exist is already more than sufficient motivation for the fascists to become violent, no eggs are needed. Attempting to dispute that is to ignore the entire history of white supremacist and fascist terrorism in this country, and the entire history of white supremacist and fascism in the entirety of world history, for that matter.

After all, what did the Jews do to provoke the Nazis in Germany to become violent?

The Nazis "historical propensity for violence" exists because their ideology demands violence, not because they're threatened by a bunch of people on street corners with dairy products. The very nature of fascism glorifies and lauds violence against anyone who is seen as an enemy, regardless of the nature of the enemy. Or did all of those mentally-disabled people somehow "trigger" them to being violent when they would otherwise have done nothing but stand around and glare a lot?
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Old Yesterday, 10:29 PM   #3071
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
And, of course, the Unite the Right Charlottesville, were it wasn't even a reaction to anything that existed, but was solely and entirely an excuse for a bunch of wanna-be fascists to flex their muscles, so to speak. The fact that they had heavily armed themselves before the rally even started was incontrovertible evidence of that fact to anyone who had more than two brain cells to rub together; as was the fact that the first thing they did when they began their march was to attack unarmed, non-violent protesters.
Again, Virginia's governor at the time, in an interview with Deray on his Pod Save the People podcast, stated that the Unite the Right goons had also hidden caches of guns around the area that police had picked up. And of course, even their tiki torch rally also featured them beating the snot out of counterprotesters, and attempting to attack an interfaith prayer group at a nearby church. Their violence was planned beforehand on public internet forums. Unfortunately, far too many people dismissed the entire movement as "just trolls/memes" right up until they began murdering people.

And naturally, the people who put these asinine white genocide ideas ("Jews will not replace us!") in their heads - the Kesslers, the Spencers, The Laura Southerns - were nowhere near the violence. And the KKK, and other such supremacists, kept back and let the angry college age boys act as their infantry. So you know what? Toss milkshakes on them if you want. Hit them with an egg. I'm worried about the legal issues it causes, but I truly don't care about the cleanliness of those who egg young men into violence for their own personal gain.

(I'm not sure what Matt Gaetz said to get similar treatment, but I don't keep up much on him...)

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Old Yesterday, 11:17 PM   #3072
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Again, Virginia's governor at the time, in an interview with Deray on his Pod Save the People podcast, stated that the Unite the Right goons had also hidden caches of guns around the area that police had picked up. And of course, even their tiki torch rally also featured them beating the snot out of counterprotesters, and attempting to attack an interfaith prayer group at a nearby church. Their violence was planned beforehand on public internet forums. Unfortunately, far too many people dismissed the entire movement as "just trolls/memes" right up until they began murdering people.

And naturally, the people who put these asinine white genocide ideas ("Jews will not replace us!") in their heads - the Kesslers, the Spencers, The Laura Southerns - were nowhere near the violence. And the KKK, and other such supremacists, kept back and let the angry college age boys act as their infantry. So you know what? Toss milkshakes on them if you want. Hit them with an egg. I'm worried about the legal issues it causes, but I truly don't care about the cleanliness of those who egg young men into violence for their own personal gain.

(I'm not sure what Matt Gaetz said to get similar treatment, but I don't keep up much on him...)
Not doubting you are wrong, but do you mind putting link?
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Old Today, 02:56 AM   #3073
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Not doubting you are wrong, but do you mind putting link?
It's the last of a series of interviews located here. The governor shows up around 30 minutes in, and mentions "weapons stashed around the city" at about 42-43 minutes in (not guns necessarily I suppose). Of course, quite a bit of what he says is BS - we know that, at least, DeAndre Harris was hospitalized after being beaten with poles by four of the goons and was not struck by any car.
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Old Today, 03:17 AM   #3074
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
It's the last of a series of interviews located here. The governor shows up around 30 minutes in, and mentions "weapons stashed around the city" at about 42-43 minutes in (not guns necessarily I suppose). Of course, quite a bit of what he says is BS - we know that, at least, DeAndre Harris was hospitalized after being beaten with poles by four of the goons and was not struck by any car.
Seems a tad f'd up

Logic would say move to here or Aus
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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