IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 21st March 2023, 10:48 PM   #1
pipelineaudio
Philosopher
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,034
Does this look like a legit paper?

Yet another health guru in hawaii, (disclaimer that seems to be) telling people to ditch real medicine for things like auto immune diseases in hawaii

Hawaii is a place where there was a long history of left wing anti vaxxers and anti "gmo" types, often seeking faith healing instead of things like diabetes, and now, we have the right wing anti-vaxxers piled on top, its a really sad state of affairs given how many morbidly obese and diabetic people there are.

We have so many MLM "health" scammers here truly killing people, and now I see this one making some news. Not sure what to think. She has made the standard types of statements that quackmasters do, but who knows

https://ijdrp.org/index.php/ijdrp/article/view/47
__________________
Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it
pipelineaudio is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st March 2023, 11:12 PM   #2
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dharug & Gundungurra
Posts: 16,810
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Yet another health guru in hawaii, (disclaimer that seems to be) telling people to ditch real medicine for things like auto immune diseases in hawaii

Hawaii is a place where there was a long history of left wing anti vaxxers and anti "gmo" types, often seeking faith healing instead of things like diabetes, and now, we have the right wing anti-vaxxers piled on top, its a really sad state of affairs given how many morbidly obese and diabetic people there are.

We have so many MLM "health" scammers here truly killing people, and now I see this one making some news. Not sure what to think. She has made the standard types of statements that quackmasters do, but who knows

https://ijdrp.org/index.php/ijdrp/article/view/47
Anti-vaxxers are not associated with specific political leanings. AV nuttery has always been across a broad political spectrum. You could never point at an AV nutter and say "therefore left wing" or "therefore right wing". It is more associated with kookiness than anything. Ditto for GMO nuttery.

This particular paper seems to be simply an advert for a whole foods vegan diet supervised by this particular "medical firm". They have got a picture of some smiling guy in a white coat and carrying a stethoscope - he must surely be a doctor or a scientist or something, and knows all about this, yeah?

A vegan or vegetarian diet is hardly controversial or particularly unhealthy. But if you want that, you can organise for yourself if you just put some effort into it. Or you can pay this crowd to send you boxes of readily-available vegetables at an exorbitant price. Up to you!
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st March 2023, 11:50 PM   #3
pipelineaudio
Philosopher
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,034
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Anti-vaxxers are not associated with specific political leanings.
Yes they are. We have two distinctly different strains of anti vaxxers that will happily lay out their reasons for it on very obvious partisan issues
__________________
Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it
pipelineaudio is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd March 2023, 02:47 AM   #4
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,306
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Yes they are. We have two distinctly different strains of anti vaxxers that will happily lay out their reasons for it on very obvious partisan issues
We have left wing anti-vaxxers, we have right wing anti-vaxxers, we have centrist anti-vaxxers and we have apolitical anti-vaxxers. They may have different reasons for being anti-vaxxers, but they are differences with no distinction.. anti-vaxxers are all certifiable idiots.
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!!
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd March 2023, 02:54 AM   #5
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,306
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
This particular paper seems to be simply an advert for a whole foods vegan diet supervised by this particular "medical firm". They have got a picture of some smiling guy in a white coat and carrying a stethoscope - he must surely be a doctor or a scientist or something, and knows all about this, yeah?
Yup...



... blue medical smock, stethoscope around neck... must be a doctor.. amirite?
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!!
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd March 2023, 04:40 AM   #6
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dharug & Gundungurra
Posts: 16,810
Originally Posted by SC
Originally Posted by Me
Anti-vaxxers are not associated with specific political leanings.
Yes they are.
No, dude, they are not. Please don't push that line, it makes you look silly. Smartcooky has explained it perfectly well.

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
We have left wing anti-vaxxers, we have right wing anti-vaxxers, we have centrist anti-vaxxers and we have apolitical anti-vaxxers. They may have different reasons for being anti-vaxxers, but they are differences with no distinction.. anti-vaxxers are all certifiable idiots.
This right there.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015

Last edited by Norman Alexander; 22nd March 2023 at 04:43 AM.
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd March 2023, 09:22 AM   #7
lomiller
Penultimate Amazing
 
lomiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,208
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Yes they are. We have two distinctly different strains of anti vaxxers that will happily lay out their reasons for it on very obvious partisan issues
Right wingers have been more prone to be anti-vax for at least a couple decades. The massive uptick in right wing anti-vax didn't come out of nowhere, the anti-science leanings of the political right gave it plenty of fertile soil to grow in.
__________________
"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"
lomiller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd March 2023, 09:26 AM   #8
DuvalHMFIC
Graduate Poster
 
DuvalHMFIC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 1,594
This seems like a silly padantic debate. Left wingers have traditionally been anti-vax. Right wingers are anti-COVID vax. But the whole "vaccines cause autism" was pushed heavily by left leaning hollywood types. Let's be honest here.
__________________
"Your ride's over, mutie. Time to die."
DuvalHMFIC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd March 2023, 09:53 AM   #9
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 39,057
Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC View Post
This seems like a silly padantic debate. Left wingers have traditionally been anti-vax. Right wingers are anti-COVID vax. But the whole "vaccines cause autism" was pushed heavily by left leaning hollywood types. Let's be honest here.
Exactly right, I think. RFK, Jr. is not a right-winger.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd March 2023, 12:17 PM   #10
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dharug & Gundungurra
Posts: 16,810
Most anti vaxx in history has come from conservative groups, particularly the religious.

https://historyofvaccines.org/vaccin...tion-movements
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd March 2023, 03:32 PM   #11
Skeptical Greg
Agave Wine Connoisseur
 
Skeptical Greg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Just past ' Resume Speed ' .
Posts: 19,277
Yes, but is he a real doctor?

P.S.
Real Doctors are sometimes quacks..
__________________
Maybe later....
Skeptical Greg is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd March 2023, 03:59 PM   #12
lomiller
Penultimate Amazing
 
lomiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,208
Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC View Post
This seems like a silly padantic debate. Left wingers have traditionally been anti-vax. Right wingers are anti-COVID vax. But the whole "vaccines cause autism" was pushed heavily by left leaning hollywood types. Let's be honest here.
Even if you could prove these "hollywood types" voted democrat it wouldn't make it a left wing phenomenon. To my knowledge it's never enjoyed any mainstream popularity in the democratic party.

Conversely here is a pre-pandemic article from 2019 detailing how anti-vax had already become a mainstream position in the Republican party due to broad support in both the Libertarian and Conservative Christian wings of the party.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...stream-1344955
__________________
"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"
lomiller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd March 2023, 04:18 PM   #13
Planigale
Philosopher
 
Planigale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: 49 North
Posts: 6,754
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Yet another health guru in hawaii, (disclaimer that seems to be) telling people to ditch real medicine for things like auto immune diseases in hawaii

Hawaii is a place where there was a long history of left wing anti vaxxers and anti "gmo" types, often seeking faith healing instead of things like diabetes, and now, we have the right wing anti-vaxxers piled on top, its a really sad state of affairs given how many morbidly obese and diabetic people there are.

We have so many MLM "health" scammers here truly killing people, and now I see this one making some news. Not sure what to think. She has made the standard types of statements that quackmasters do, but who knows

https://ijdrp.org/index.php/ijdrp/article/view/47
I can only see a summary so it is difficult to judge. I did a quick literature search and there is no evidence being vegan protects you from lupus nephritis so I think this is unlikely to be true, case reports are poor quality evidence.
Planigale is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd March 2023, 05:26 PM   #14
pipelineaudio
Philosopher
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,034
I'm sorry to disturb your religion, but in Hawaii, most of the anti science stuff has been solidly left. Great that that's the thing you guys focus on, but whatever. I'm more worried about the people this lady is likely to kill here
__________________
Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it
pipelineaudio is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd March 2023, 05:27 PM   #15
pipelineaudio
Philosopher
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,034
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
No, dude, they are not. Please don't push that line, it makes you look silly.
Yes they are. Only person looking silly is someone denying facts for religious reasons

Quote:
Smartcooky has explained it perfectly well.
No, he didn't, again this is Hawaii

It makes HUGE difference as one side has all the political and policy setting power.

The left in hawaii actually made hawaiian food illegal because of their anti science beliefs

So yeah you guys are wrong
__________________
Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it
pipelineaudio is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd March 2023, 07:47 PM   #16
marting
Illuminator
 
marting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,982
Political party correlation with anti-vax sentiment has varied over the years and has generally increased in both parties in the last 2 decades:

Polls at this link show that in 2001, 6% of Republicans and 4% of Democrats believed vaccines were more dangerous than the disease. In 2015 this had shifted to 7% of Republicans and 9% of Democrats. In 2019 it had increased further and shifted toward the right with 13% of Republcans and 7% of Democrats.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...vaxx-movement/

In general Republicans were also the most vaccine hesitant in the early part of the pandemic before vaccines. However, Trump was strongly pushing his Operation Warp Speed and, in Sept.,Oct. was frequently stating that vaccines would be available before the election.

This created increased uncertainty among Democrats about the future Covid-19 vaccine as outlined here:

Quote:
An extraordinary collapse in support from registered Democrats contributed to the overall change: only 30% said they would definitely get a vaccine, down from 57% in July.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/23/vote...on-poll-f.html

Eric Topol (an excellent covid-19 study source) with a few others started a major campaign to delay any vaccine efficacy data and approvals believing that Trumps frequent and strong endorsement, pre-election, would increase skepticisim. As a result the FDA updated, in early Oct., the requirement for EUA to require a median of 2 months of safety data regardless of high the efficacy was. This had the effect that no EUA could be applied for until after the election. Pfizer, in spite of earlier stating they would release interim efficacy data if the trials indicated the vaccine met one of several interim goals, did not until the week after the election and applied for the EUA a few weeks after that.

There is obviously no doubt that Trump would have used the efficacly data to tout Operation Warp Speed had it come out before the election and taken credit for it even though it's funding didn't go into the Pfizzer development or trials.

I sometimes wonder if Trump* had then been re-elected as a result, if the political polarity would be as lopsided as it is now.

*Yuck.
__________________
Flying's easy. Walking on water, now that's cool.
marting is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd March 2023, 08:45 PM   #17
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,306
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Yes they are. Only person looking silly is someone denying facts for religious reasons



No, he didn't, again this is Hawaii
Irrelevant

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
It makes HUGE difference as one side has all the political and policy setting power.
Nope, it makes no difference.

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
The left in hawaii actually made hawaiian food illegal because of their anti science beliefs
Nope, There is some difficulty in justifiably assessing the precise correlation between the information you communicated and the facts, in so far as they can be determined and demonstrated, such that it causes epistemological problems of sufficient magnitude as to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language a heavier burden than it can reasonably be expected to bear..... In other words, you lied.... you grossly misrepresented and distorted the truth. Hawaii did indeed ban some brands of Hawaiian type foods, not because of some imaginary anti-science stance, but because it is not made in Hawaii, and it uses protected Hawaiian trademarks.


Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
So yeah you guys are wrong
So nah, we are not wrong!
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!!
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd March 2023, 10:58 PM   #18
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dharug & Gundungurra
Posts: 16,810
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
I'm sorry to disturb your religion, but in Hawaii, most of the anti science stuff has been solidly left. Great that that's the thing you guys focus on, but whatever. I'm more worried about the people this lady is likely to kill here
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Yes they are. Only person looking silly is someone denying facts for religious reasons
LOL. Do you know who you are talking to? Someone with actually zero religion. You got aggrieved so you straw-manned me. Nice going.



Quote:
No, he didn't, again this is Hawaii

It makes HUGE difference as one side has all the political and policy setting power.

The left in hawaii actually made hawaiian food illegal because of their anti science beliefs

So yeah you guys are wrong
OK, evidence please.

ETA: If what Smartcooky said is true about the Hawaiian food then this thread should be moved to Humor. I'm gonna leave it with my original comments.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015

Last edited by Norman Alexander; 22nd March 2023 at 11:01 PM.
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd March 2023, 11:32 AM   #19
Carrot Flower King
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Northumberland, UK
Posts: 4,339
Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
I can only see a summary so it is difficult to judge. I did a quick literature search and there is no evidence being vegan protects you from lupus nephritis so I think this is unlikely to be true, case reports are poor quality evidence.
This!

Not to mention that it is only 2 cases, which doesn't really constitute a "series", more a couple of case reports.

Better quality research is needed to draw any sort of conclusion either way.
Carrot Flower King is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd March 2023, 04:01 PM   #20
pipelineaudio
Philosopher
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,034
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Someone with actually zero religion. You got aggrieved so you straw-manned me. Nice going.
So you say, but you show otherwise
__________________
Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it
pipelineaudio is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd March 2023, 04:08 PM   #21
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 30,145
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Yet another health guru in hawaii, (disclaimer that seems to be) telling people to ditch real medicine for things like auto immune diseases in hawaii

Hawaii is a place where there was a long history of left wing anti vaxxers and anti "gmo" types, often seeking faith healing instead of things like diabetes, and now, we have the right wing anti-vaxxers piled on top, its a really sad state of affairs given how many morbidly obese and diabetic people there are.

We have so many MLM "health" scammers here truly killing people, and now I see this one making some news. Not sure what to think. She has made the standard types of statements that quackmasters do, but who knows

https://ijdrp.org/index.php/ijdrp/article/view/47
The "The International Journal of Disease Reversal and Prevention" is part of the Plantrician Project so that's a big red flag right there.

ETA: Oh look, Katz, Stoll and Willett are involved. Definitely garbage.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

Last edited by catsmate; 23rd March 2023 at 04:11 PM.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd March 2023, 06:57 PM   #22
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,306
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
The "The International Journal of Disease Reversal and Prevention" is part of the Plantrician Project so that's a big red flag right there.
OK, one of the biggest purveyors of Quackadoodle Woo Woo medicine on the net.

Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
ETA: Oh look, Katz, Stoll and Willett are involved. Definitely garbage.
And this confirms it!
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!!

Last edited by smartcooky; 23rd March 2023 at 07:00 PM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd March 2023, 10:26 PM   #23
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dharug & Gundungurra
Posts: 16,810
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
So you say, but you show otherwise
You done it again.

Bye.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd March 2023, 11:36 PM   #24
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
 
Roger Ramjets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,113
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Yet another health guru in hawaii, (disclaimer that seems to be) telling people to ditch real medicine for things like auto immune diseases in hawaii
Her lupus went into remission shortly after she started on a vegen diet. Maybe it was just coincidence, but the correct treatment when in remission is nothing.

Quote:
Hawaii is a place where there was a long history of left wing anti vaxxers and anti "gmo" types, often seeking faith healing instead of things like diabetes,
I'd take faith healing over diabetes any day.

Quote:
and now, we have the right wing anti-vaxxers piled on top, its a really sad state of affairs given how many morbidly obese and diabetic people there are.
One way to reduce weight is go vegan. Perhaps she's onto something...
__________________
We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.
Roger Ramjets is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2023, 12:37 AM   #25
Sherkeu
Illuminator
 
Sherkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 3,414
Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
I'd take faith healing over diabetes any day.

One way to reduce weight is go vegan. Perhaps she's onto something...
Agree! Seems to me, having a processed diet and getting overweight, as is so incredibly endemic in the US, is the cause of all sorts of maladies. And it is rather new to our species.
I see the median kids in a class now that would have been 'the FAT kid' back when I was in school. Sometimes half of a class i see in a photo is fatter than the fattest kid in my old school.

Also being too protective to exposure of various viruses and bacteria is also an issue. So balance perhaps is required. Play in dirt and mud and oceans.

Going Vegan is hard to maintain. I've had a few friends across the last 30 years pass out from lack of protein- it is bizarre! The ones that didnt, I often found had a unique definition of vegan which meant 'mostly vegan' or 'vegan when it is available' If you pass out from your diet, maybe add some fish.

People seem to like strict rules for dietary change if they think it works.. If too vague they cannot follow. There has to be some faith in the regimen. And 100 days of it from what I recall. Anything less leaves no mark.
Sherkeu is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2023, 05:02 AM   #26
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 30,145
Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Her lupus went into remission shortly after she started on a vegen diet. Maybe it was just coincidence, but the correct treatment when in remission is nothing.

I'd take faith healing over diabetes any day.

One way to reduce weight is go vegan. Perhaps she's onto something...
There is absolutely no guarantee of this.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th March 2023, 02:15 PM   #27
pipelineaudio
Philosopher
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,034
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
The "The International Journal of Disease Reversal and Prevention" is part of the Plantrician Project so that's a big red flag right there.

ETA: Oh look, Katz, Stoll and Willett are involved. Definitely garbage.
Thank you! I'll look more into these as well and see what else of our health care system here is infested with it.

Hawaii is like if you gave Sedona a million people and the ability to completely control government agencies' policies, its terrifying when they latch onto the latest MLM bossbabe medical claims
__________________
Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it
pipelineaudio is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th March 2023, 02:16 PM   #28
pipelineaudio
Philosopher
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,034
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
There is absolutely no guarantee of this.
Looks like someone has seen our vegans!

That said, I have been sliding further and further to nearly pure vegan diet and really not missing anything except the money.

We have a hospital here with food so good that people come to dine at it for its own sake. They have a real good vegan menu and the hospital itself is officially vegan, but does offer meat choices

https://www.adventisthealth.org/cast...es/the-bistro/
__________________
Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it

Last edited by pipelineaudio; 29th March 2023 at 02:18 PM.
pipelineaudio is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:34 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.