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Old 20th October 2020, 09:05 AM   #81
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
Sending pipe bombs to political opponents is wrong. Rioting, looting, burning, shooting, and killing for social justice or intersectionality is also wrong. Cutting off heads for transgression against Islam is also wrong. Burning off (when your apodo [nickname] is Ghostrider) or cutting off a person's face, while alive, for being a rival Mexican drug cartel member is also wrong.
So we are left with sending missiles into weddings being OK.
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Old 20th October 2020, 09:12 AM   #82
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If only there were countries that were majority Muslim, maybe even with Islam as the state religion. If such places existed, Muslims might be free from having to see their faith and beliefs offended.

I guess one can just continue to dream.
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Old 20th October 2020, 09:15 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
So we are left with sending missiles into weddings being OK.
You never mentioned anything condemning throwing babies into volcanoes. I can only assume that means you're perfectly okay with that. You monster. Volcanoes aren't garbage cans!
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Old 20th October 2020, 10:26 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
You never mentioned anything condemning throwing babies into volcanoes. I can only assume that means you're perfectly okay with that. You monster. Volcanoes aren't garbage cans!
But this is all about proving the west and Christianity is better than Islam, specifically attacks by the west in Afghanistan were mentioned as being non existent. That was a clear endorsement of the drone strike program with all its collateral damage and sloppy fact checking about targets.

See
Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
When has the West decapitated a schoolteacher in Afghanistan?

Did you like it when ISIS burned the Jordanian pilot alive?
Clearly drone strikes good decapitation bad.

Not sure how dating site based decapitations fit into winning of the west vs islam though.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-s...-idUSKCN0XA27T

Clearly Islam and people who use dating sites are both equally problematic and we need to as a culture figure out how to put a stop to them.
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Old 20th October 2020, 10:41 AM   #85
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Collateral damage. Let's see...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collat...manitarian_law

---

The Beheading:

1. The beheader did not distinguish himself from the surrounding civilian population. As a party to the conflict, he should have done so.

2. The beheading did not have military significance. In order to justify putting civilians at risk, there must be a corresponding military objective.

3. The loss of civilian life in the attack was not proportional to the military value of the attack. In order to justify putting civilian lives at risk, the risk must be proportional to the military value to be realized if the attack is successful

---

A Typical Wedding Strike:

1. The target of the strike did not distinguish himself from the surrounding civilian population. The lives of the civilians around him are at risk because of him.

2. The strike did have military significance. Some risk to civilians is justified in carrying out the strike.

3. The value realized from the strike - the loss of a senior planner and commander - is proportional to the risk to civilian lives from the strike.

---

Basically, all warfare is Applied Trolley Problems.

And basically, there are two kinds of people in an Applied Trolley Problem debate:

People who believe that sometimes putting civilians at risk is the right thing to do, and then debate decisions on a case by case basis (for example, according to the criteria laid out by ICC prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo - see the above link).

And people who believe that putting civilians at risk is never the right thing to do, and all such debates about acceptable collateral damage are pointless and inhumane.

Debates between two of the former can be productive, even if they don't agree on every case. Debates between the former and the latter cannot be productive.
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Old 20th October 2020, 10:56 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
So we are left with sending missiles into weddings being OK.
That's also wrong and a crime of both conservative and liberal western governments. Why do you refuse to condemn far left terrorism or even acknowledge that it exists but want to bring American conservativism into a thread about a Chechen Muslim cutting off someone's head in France?

Last edited by Scopedog; 20th October 2020 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 20th October 2020, 11:00 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
You never mentioned anything condemning throwing babies into volcanoes. I can only assume that means you're perfectly okay with that. You monster. Volcanoes aren't garbage cans!
[Deleted. I decided that my question could be construed as unwarranted personalization.]

Last edited by Scopedog; 20th October 2020 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 20th October 2020, 11:01 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
That's also wrong and a crime of both conservative and liberal western governments. Why do you refuse to condemn far left terrorism or even acknowledge that it exists but want to bring american conservativism into a thread about a Chechen Muslim cutting off someone's head in France?
I get it broken windows are just as much a tragedy as going into a place of worship and gunning down those inside. Buildings are much more important that people at least the kind of people who get gunned down in their places of worship. We have to pretend there is equality there so clearly a bunch of jews are no more valuable than a police station. Burning down a police station and gunning down a bunch of jews are morally equivalent because they have to be to make both sides the same.

You want to keep things relevant why ever bring in IS? They are totally irrelevant but they got factored in somehow.
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Old 20th October 2020, 11:04 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
Do you acknowledge that the Chechen Muslim that's the subject of this thread would probably throw you off a tall building?
Not unless he's a Chechen Muslim zombie.
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Old 20th October 2020, 11:10 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
I get it broken windows are just as much a tragedy as going into a place of worship and gunning down those inside. Buildings are much more important that people at least the kind of people who get gunned down in their places of worship. We have to pretend there is equality there so clearly a bunch of jews are no more valuable than a police station. Burning down a police station and gunning down a bunch of jews are morally equivalent because they have to be to make both sides the same.

You want to keep things relevant why ever bring in IS? They are totally irrelevant but they got factored in somehow.
On the spectrum from self-identifying but otherwise secular western-socialized Muslim to Islamic State extremist terrorist, this guy seems to lean toward Islamic State extremist terrorist. You again failed to acknowledge or condemn far leftist terrorism (which threatens various western symbols and institutions).
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Old 20th October 2020, 11:14 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
On the spectrum from self-identifying but otherwise secular western-socialized Muslim to Islamic State extremist terrorist, this guy seems to lean toward Islamic State extremist terrorist. You again failed to acknowledge or condemn far leftist terrorism (which threatens various western symbols and institutions).
Yes yes yes clearly the problem is suburban teens

"Very few of those charged in protests appear to be affiliated with highly organized extremist groups, and many are young suburban adults from the very neighborhoods Trump vows to protect from violence."

https://www.snopes.com/ap/2020/10/20...tist-radicals/

That is clearly the moral equivalent of opening fire on a walmart parking lot.

Could you find the actual events I am supposed to be condemning?
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Old 20th October 2020, 11:18 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
If only there were countries that were majority Muslim, maybe even with Islam as the state religion. If such places existed, Muslims might be free from having to see their faith and beliefs offended.

I guess one can just continue to dream.
Those countries would surely be the most advanced and peaceful on earth, and all westerners would want to go live there. That's why they don't want us to know.
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Old 20th October 2020, 11:28 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yes yes yes clearly the problem is suburban teens

"Very few of those charged in protests appear to be affiliated with highly organized extremist groups, and many are young suburban adults from the very neighborhoods Trump vows to protect from violence."

https://www.snopes.com/ap/2020/10/20...tist-radicals/

That is clearly the moral equivalent of opening fire on a walmart parking lot.

Could you find the actual events I am supposed to be condemning?
I don't think a moral equivalence is necessary. A nacent toxic, violent ideology is still a toxic, violent ideology (and I emphasize that I'm referring to a segment of BLM, antifa, and the far left). Also, just because the far left generally isn't very good at successfully killing the people they shoot or attempt to burn alive (such as ambushed police) doesn't mean they aren't aspiring to. Since the leftist discussion is off-topic I won't say anything else about it and you're free to have a last word. However, I notice that you ignored my comment about the relevance of Islamic State.

Last edited by Scopedog; 20th October 2020 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 20th October 2020, 12:15 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
I don't think a moral equivalence is necessary. A nacent toxic, violent ideology is still a toxic, violent ideology (and I emphasize that I'm referring to a segment of BLM, antifa, and the far left). Also, just because the far left generally isn't very good at successfully killing the people they shoot or attempt to burn alive (such as ambushed police) doesn't mean they aren't aspiring to. Since the leftist discussion is off-topic I won't say anything else about it and you're free to have a last word. However, I notice that you ignored my comment about the relevance of Islamic State.
See you are a fan of the George Soros brick piles theory.
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Old 20th October 2020, 01:19 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
I don't think a moral equivalence is necessary. A nacent toxic, violent ideology is still a toxic, violent ideology (and I emphasize that I'm referring to a segment of BLM, antifa, and the far left). Also, just because the far left generally isn't very good at successfully killing the people they shoot or attempt to burn alive (such as ambushed police) doesn't mean they aren't aspiring to. Since the leftist discussion is off-topic I won't say anything else about it and you're free to have a last word. However, I notice that you ignored my comment about the relevance of Islamic State.
All absolutists who believe they can obtain the authority to use force from the worth of their personal beliefs alone, absent thorough vetting by the entire polity, and enforce whatever mandates they feel apply through direct action, are equally out of bounds.

To hold that this is as much a problem today, now, in 2020, on the Left as it is on the Right is laughable, however. In fact, even if one can easily cite some pretty questionable thinking from select individuals on the Left, it is impossible to make the claim that there is more than a testimonial presence of anyone stating absolutist postulates of the kind that would serve to deny political equality or a shared human condition, the kinds of memes that pave the way for malice... the bread and butter of all the GOP nutters out there.

Show me the dehumanizing memes and enabling discourse, show me the cheering from the sidelines at the threat to kidnap and murder in major media, show me the leaders enjoining others to engage in violence while making reference to the Second Amendment, show me the brandishing of firearms in public, show me the collusion with local law enforcement, and you'll have yourself an argument.

Until then, enough.
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Old 22nd October 2020, 08:18 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You think there aren't any fanatical idiots in other cultures? Just look back to the history of the Catholics burning people alive and the Protestants drowning women to prove they aren't witches.
There is good reason why that is ancient history, while the beheading happened recent.
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Old Yesterday, 01:31 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
Okay, then shooting doctors and attacking health-care facilities.
And bulldozing houses to force people out to move their people in.
Or attacking Muslims in the streets.
Or killing people for being homosexual.

Most of the above apply to several religious groups on every continent.
Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
There is good reason why that is ancient history, while the beheading happened recent.
Ancient history, yes. Three years ago is certainly ancient, when SWAT cars zoomed around me on their way to a PP shooting. Among the dead were a mother of two and a vet.
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