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26th February 2013, 04:25 AM | #5241 |
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What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser |
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26th February 2013, 04:34 AM | #5242 |
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Torture? I didn't know there was a commandment against that. Can you quote the chapter and verse for that one?
But half the commandments are NOT UNIVERSAL. Some were commonplace long before the Ten Commandments existed, for very good reasons which do not require religious belief to accept.
But the remaining five commandments are complete bollox. Especially the bit about coveting. You can't choose your emotions, making rules against feeling a certain way is nonsense. We've repeatedly explained to you how it can arise, but you keep acting like we haven't and continue to claim that it can't happen. Why is this? Do you fail to understand our explanations? Do you not bother to read them and think them through? Do you keep forgetting? Or do you deliberately choose to ignore the truth? ETA: IIRC the only response I got the last time I tried to explain it in detail was the accusation that it was "science fiction", and a complete refusal to make any attempt to explain exactly which part(s) of my explanation you disagreed with and why. |
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26th February 2013, 05:10 AM | #5243 |
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I am starting to think that you haven't even opened a bible, let alone read it.
This is just a small sampling of killing that is considered good by the bible. Exodus 22:17 Leviticus 20:13 Leviticus 20:27 Exodus 21:15 Leviticus 20:9 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 Zechariah 13:3 Deuteronomy 13:13-19 Deuteronomy 22:20-21 Deuteronomy 17:2-5 Leviticus 24:10-16 Exodus 31:12-15 |
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What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser |
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26th February 2013, 05:14 AM | #5244 |
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"That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim |
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26th February 2013, 05:38 AM | #5245 |
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You missed... irreducible complexity, DNA is computer code (I think. It was really close, though not necessarily that exact claim), molecular machines were mentioned in the copypasta, as I recall, he's tried the mutations don't add information, he's definitely tried the random/chance one, and he's heavily implied the "Just a theory" and "theory in crisis."
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So sayeth the crazy little dragon. |
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26th February 2013, 05:44 AM | #5246 |
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How nice. That's only been a straw man argument for how many years, now? Darwin's original theory is not being used. When the evidence showed that it was flawed, it was discarded in favor of a theory that fit the evidence. That is one of the major things that happens in science, after all.
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So sayeth the crazy little dragon. |
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26th February 2013, 06:01 AM | #5247 |
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Indeed. Naturally, killing the mutant, the heretic, the witch, and the unbeliever sounds like it wouldn't be murder, though I doubt GIBHOR will get the reference.
Of course, there's always the lovely verses about being allowed to beat your slaves within an inch of death and not being punished at all if you manage to keep them suffering for a day or two before they die. Ahh, the joys of Exodus 21:20-21. More directly related, though, if I recall correctly in my tired state, I seem to remember reading that the commandments that dealt specifically with things like killing were intended to *only* apply to the Jewish people. |
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So sayeth the crazy little dragon. |
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26th February 2013, 06:25 AM | #5248 |
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What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser |
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26th February 2013, 07:08 AM | #5249 |
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"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
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26th February 2013, 07:13 AM | #5250 |
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"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
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26th February 2013, 07:15 AM | #5251 |
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"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
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26th February 2013, 07:26 AM | #5252 |
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WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where you could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!! |
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26th February 2013, 07:37 AM | #5253 |
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You must know that the above untrue. You are deliberately misusing the word "information" to falsely claim that cells must be the product of an intelligent designer. When you write your posts here, you are using a human invented language. But there are no such "written” letters and words in any cell. What you really mean is that cells are composed of non-living chemical elements and molecules which scientists (not theologians) can understand in terms of whatever chemical reactions those constituent atoms and molecules can produce. There is no “information” in the literal sense of that word. All the cell has is it’s chemical structure & nothing more. |
26th February 2013, 07:46 AM | #5254 |
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"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
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26th February 2013, 08:53 AM | #5255 | ||
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I never said it arose from nothing and I expect it arose as all self-organizing molecules have, with entropy and chemical interactions. There is nothing magical or as you like to say "far too fantastic". Throw in Natural Selection and you explain the sequence.
That's a far better explanation than "poof". Naturalism uses reality such as physics and chemistry all of which reduce your "chance" argument to dust. Hell it's far simpler with this explanation (using naturalism BTW) than resorting to a Fred Hoyle argument which is just another strawman attempt to discredit the naturalistic position. Again you're resorting to a dishonest tactic so again I will call you dishonest. You and your sources abuse odds and ignore chemical interactions to make your case which means your attempts are intellectually bankrupt. And by using a bankrupt position to prop another using God you're then resting on a bankrupt idea which means your position cannot be considered until you use a better source of information. Good luck. Until then naturalism better explains our existence. Also it's not a message so every time you say that you're lying and you already know why. It's not a code, it's not a language. It's a sequence of chemical sites and that's about it. Origins explained through chemistry, sequence explained through biochemistry over time. Naturalistic, plausible, and not intellectually bankrupt. <SNIP>. Also that's not how you use the word anthropic. To understand what I mean try understanding why your assumption that DNA is a message from God is similar to seeing Jesus in your toast, but swap toast with DNA and Jesus with God.
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26th February 2013, 11:13 AM | #5256 |
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"Thou shalt have no other gods before me." No, I don't see how that is universal. Can you walk me through that one?
"You shall not make for yourself an idol." Obviously, a lot a people do. Why would that be a universal moral? "Thou shalt not take my name in vain." I do it all the time. Goddamn! No lightning. The Christian god is an incompetant idiot! Nope, still nothing. They must not be as universal as you believe them to be. "Keep the Sabbath holy." Is that Saturday or Sunday? Is that why it is ok in the bible to murder your neighbor for picking up sticks on the Sabbath? "Honor your father and mother." What if they are abusive? "You shall not covet." Your bible really is into thought crime, isn't it? Do you see now how idiotic the belief that morals come from the Christian bible is?
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So, answer the questions. Is it moral to kill your neighbor for picking up sticks on the Sabbath? Is it moral to kill your daughter for having sex outside of marriage? Just a YES or NO will be fine, then we can discuss the Bible condoning them. |
26th February 2013, 11:18 AM | #5257 |
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So you completely copped out!?!?
Not surprising at all. Just a fairy tale. Here is a quote from the site you posted. Rather, most scholars agree that Jesus means we will do greater works because there are many of us. This is how you explain the scripture? Sad. So, you and your god have absolutely no power to do anything. Do you realize that is the same as saying, there is no god at all? Of course you also left out the "doing the same works as jesus". When will you be walking on water, or healing the sick? You say the universe is created by a god. I say there is no god. I ask god and his supposed follower to show us his creative power. The answer comes back a cop out. No power is demonstrated. Why? Because there is no god! |
26th February 2013, 11:38 AM | #5258 |
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I think naturalism is the best explanation for our existence largely because it's the most logically consistent explanation. The notion that the most powerful being affecting the universe is also the creator of the universe is a logically unstable notion. Also, the problem of evil is one that theologians can't logically explain unless they admit that god is either the author of evil or that god is not all powerful.
If I see evidence that my reasoning is flawed, I will consider changing my religious views. |
26th February 2013, 11:58 AM | #5259 |
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26th February 2013, 03:01 PM | #5260 |
I say nay!
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Memento Mori |
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26th February 2013, 03:43 PM | #5261 |
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Because you assert it, that makes it not automatically true......
http://elshamah.heavenforum.org/t169...-change-theory
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http://elshamah.heavenforum.org/t60-...arise-on-earth
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26th February 2013, 03:44 PM | #5262 |
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26th February 2013, 03:45 PM | #5263 |
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26th February 2013, 03:48 PM | #5264 |
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26th February 2013, 03:51 PM | #5265 |
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i know you have it easy to point out what you think you can use as justification to be against the bible. If i would be you, i would rather make a serious and unbiased bible study, then you will understand these issues in a other light.
You would be more convincing, if you would point out , what positive evidence you have for your case of strong atheism. Thats not so easy, isnt it ? |
26th February 2013, 03:52 PM | #5266 |
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Quote mining?!?!?! AGAIN!?!?!?!?
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Jesus GIBHOR....that quote is about Punctuated Equilibrium. Dishonest quotemine is dishonest. Again. |
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26th February 2013, 03:52 PM | #5267 |
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26th February 2013, 03:55 PM | #5268 |
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26th February 2013, 03:58 PM | #5269 |
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26th February 2013, 04:07 PM | #5270 |
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its hard to believe that " rational " atheists write and insist in such unscientific nonsense.
http://elshamah.heavenforum.org/t287...-for-a-creator
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26th February 2013, 04:10 PM | #5271 |
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26th February 2013, 04:13 PM | #5272 |
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And again you're looking at the end point of DNA and calling it a code ignoring the fact that it's a self-organizing system and self-organizes through natural selection. This is obvious because DNA is within a system (its organism) undergoing biochemistry and that organism is participating in selection within the environment system. So again your claim is invalid.
Also Francis Collins describes DNA incorrectly as it's not a software program in a strict sense, it doesn't give orders or commands. It merely acts as a binding site chemically. DNA gives no more commands than water when it forms a hydration sphere (hint: I'll say it again. Thermodynamics). You have no way of dismissing this fact at all even on a naturalistic level unless you could demonstrate that for some reason physics decided to change the rules. It's almost hilarious that you would actually have to invoke a supernaturalistic explanation to deny that. So another post debunked and you're still left wanting GIBHOR. |
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"If I actually believed that Jesus was coming to end the world in 2050, I'd be preparing by stocking up on timber and nails" - PZ Myers |
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26th February 2013, 04:20 PM | #5273 |
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throw a thousand paper snippets, each one with a different alphabet letter, one billion times into the ear, let it fall on the floor, and, who knows , one day, it will fall in the right order, to write a sentence, like : what a amazing miracle !!
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one more on my ignore list. |
26th February 2013, 04:23 PM | #5274 |
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26th February 2013, 04:24 PM | #5275 |
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26th February 2013, 04:25 PM | #5276 |
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The paper snippets argument is not an accurate representation of DNA though. DNA is a chemical it does not interact randomly. No chemical acts randomly; that's just something chemistry doesn't allow. It is not a thousand snippets being thrown in the air and trying to phrase it as such means you're using a dishonest tactic of lying, presenting the lie as the scientific position, and then crapping all over that lie/ positioning us to defend your lie. That is the problem with you trying to frame it as a code or a message. The sequence is not a code or message either because it's not spelling anything out but neither is it arbitrary and natural selection explains that. The sequences that continue on remain as they are barring biochemical interactions which alter it which THEMSELVES participate within the continuum.
Since you've given no strong evidence and rather a mix of opinion and just plain ignorance your argument remains the dust it was. Keep trying though. If I'm on your ignore list that's your loss because then you won't see the evidence against you which means you won't have the topic of this thread answered for you which means you don't need to be here which means you'll leave which mea.... wait....PUT ME ON YOUR IGNORE LIST. |
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"If I actually believed that Jesus was coming to end the world in 2050, I'd be preparing by stocking up on timber and nails" - PZ Myers |
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26th February 2013, 04:27 PM | #5277 |
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26th February 2013, 05:07 PM | #5278 |
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Yes, it's easy to use the bible to disprove you and the bible. If I would be you, I would try to defend it unless you know there is no defense.
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So you're admitting that morals are not objective nor do they originate with your murderous bible? |
26th February 2013, 05:19 PM | #5279 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I know that because you are a false witness, just being a parrot that blindly cuts and pastes whatever material you feel my be appropriate that you really don't care.
But get a clue GIBHOR, there are no fossils that suddenly appear in the Cambrian explosion despite your cut and paste of
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So SQUAWK for Jesus and make you parrot copy and paste. |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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26th February 2013, 05:24 PM | #5280 |
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...nor does your automatic denial, without consideration, make it any less true than it actually is.
The phrase "appear in the fossil record fully formed" is a long-debunked creationist canard. I could help you understand what is so fundamentally wrong with that silly claim, if you would but tell me what definition you use for species. OTH, that would be OT. Why is it that all you offer as evidence of "miracles" is anecdote? You know the canard about the plural of anecdote...the number of anecdotes does not change that. Think of the number of anecdotes offered in support of the existence sasquatch. Or alien visitation. ...or is it your postion that multiple sensationalist anecdotes about "miracles" are the reason you beleive naturalism to be the best evidence for your existence? <snip> Repeating a lie does not make it come true. Biopoesis and ToE are two different subjects. In fact, since evolution by natural selection is a characteristic process that happens to living things, ToE properly does not address biopoesis. Do you not find repeating the same claim, when its error has been pointed out to you, to be dishonest? |
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"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
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