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26th February 2013, 05:24 PM | #5281 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I tried to show you the error of the Fine Tuning Argument but all you could say was SQUAWK for Jesus.
You never answered the question, either because you are a blind parrot or because you don't understand the Fine Tuning Argument, that is why you are false and dishonest, and a bad witness. There is no good work in just copy and pasting nonsense that you don't understand, by your behavior you make all followers of jesus look foolish. |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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26th February 2013, 05:26 PM | #5282 |
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"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
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26th February 2013, 05:27 PM | #5283 |
Philosopher
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The Cambrian Explosion argument he's using is complete crap. There are evidence of life WELL before the Cambrian Explosion which may be precursors. All the stuff was there well before however it was the emergence of the exoskeleton which easily fossilizes that led to the moniker of the event. It was not an explosion of life it was an explosion of fossils.
What's better is GIBHOR knows this since we've said that exact same thing before. |
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"If I actually believed that Jesus was coming to end the world in 2050, I'd be preparing by stocking up on timber and nails" - PZ Myers |
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26th February 2013, 05:37 PM | #5284 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Because you assert your particular flavour of god, that makes it true.
Give up with the elshabby link spam. What on earth is a "precipitated conclusion" It just happened. Wrong. And again with the ElShabby link spam. |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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26th February 2013, 05:42 PM | #5285 |
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What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser |
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26th February 2013, 05:49 PM | #5286 |
Tergiversator
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I have already, twice. You have ignored it because you are incapable of addressing it.
That Your failing not mine. As I said, you are intellectually stagnant. show me where I am wrong. How do you think I came to my conclusions on the bible? I don't defend strong atheism. I defend the position that naturalism is the best explanation for our existence. |
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What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser |
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26th February 2013, 06:01 PM | #5287 |
Philosopher
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So there's a bit of history I remember with you. I remember awhile ago you made a mistake just like this and the response you were given absolutely must be mentioned again.
You've come full circle twice over |
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"If I actually believed that Jesus was coming to end the world in 2050, I'd be preparing by stocking up on timber and nails" - PZ Myers |
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26th February 2013, 10:10 PM | #5288 |
Graduate Poster
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Hi GIBHOR
If DNA was created, why are there so many problems with it. Why was it created in some situations to include Down Syndrome or Spina bifida and genetic preposition for some types of cancer. Whats my Appendix for. Did god have a bad day, or is he just cruel. The way I understand it, if you need to consider DNA as "information", its more an "information record" of evolutionary change, just as the Grand Canyon is an information record of over two billion years of the Earth's geological history. (I understand there is a difference between Data and Information, but lets not get into that as its not important) or a tree ring contains information of its existance over its lifetime. |
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Go sell crazy someplace else we're all stocked up here |
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27th February 2013, 12:46 AM | #5289 |
Schrödinger's cat
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Indeed. It's the mountains of empirical evidence that make it true.
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There is no empirical evidence for these "miracles". There is, however, plenty of empirical evidence for the cognitive biases and flawed perceptions which can lead people to inadvertantly fool themselves into thinking miraculous events have occurred. There is also plenty of evidence that when supposedly miraculous events (e.g. the exercise of a paranormal power by someone who is utterly convinced they possess one) are reproduced under circumstances which carefully eliminate the effect of these sources of error, it's invariably discovered that they don't have that power at all.
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"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett |
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27th February 2013, 01:32 AM | #5290 |
Daydreamer
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What of all the miracles reported by other religions? For example Hinduism. http://www.speakingtree.in/spiritual...st-of-miracles Should I now accept these claims as evidence that the Hindu religion is correct? What of all the reports of alien abductions? So many thousands of people genuinely believe that they've experienced it first hand. Should I now accept these claims as evidence that aliens are abducting people? Simply claiming it happened isn't enough. You have to provide verifiable evidence that it happened. But nobody has ever done this. |
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27th February 2013, 02:14 AM | #5291 |
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There are no cells that transmit or receive "information" in the sense that you are trying to use the word "information". You are repeatedly, and deliberately, misusing the word "information" because you want to claim that living cells are responding to "information" from God. Chemical molecules do not hear voices from God (you might hear voices, but chemicals don’t), and they don’t speak the word of God to one-another either. All that chemical molecules can do is to function through simple chemical reactions according to the most efficient reaction pathways. |
27th February 2013, 03:15 AM | #5292 |
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http://www.uncommondescent.com/faq/#nobdesn
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http://creation.com/refuting-evoluti...from-evolution http://dennisdjones.wordpress.com/20...design-theory/
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27th February 2013, 03:24 AM | #5293 |
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http://elshamah.heavenforum.org/t288-the-genetic-code
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27th February 2013, 03:27 AM | #5294 |
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27th February 2013, 03:47 AM | #5295 |
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the mountain is so big, that despite all the propaganda a big percentage of the u.s. population does not believe that macro evolution is true......
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http://creationwiki.org/Scientism
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All illusion ??!!
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27th February 2013, 03:49 AM | #5296 |
Philosopher
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now Ive heard it all
Enjoy your thread ppl. |
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"Here we go again.... semantic and syntactic chicanery and sophistic sleight of tongue and pen.... the bedazzling magic of appearing to be saying something when in fact all that is happening is diverting attention from the attempts at shoving god through the trapdoor of illogic and wishful thinking." - Leumas |
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27th February 2013, 03:52 AM | #5297 |
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27th February 2013, 03:52 AM | #5298 |
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27th February 2013, 03:53 AM | #5299 |
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27th February 2013, 03:55 AM | #5300 |
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27th February 2013, 03:56 AM | #5301 |
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27th February 2013, 03:59 AM | #5302 |
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27th February 2013, 03:59 AM | #5303 |
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27th February 2013, 04:12 AM | #5304 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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27th February 2013, 04:12 AM | #5305 |
Schrödinger's cat
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Then a big percentage of the US population is wilfully ignorant.
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27th February 2013, 04:17 AM | #5306 |
Daydreamer
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Only metaphorically, not literally.
Computer code and script is language, purely abstract, where the meanings of sequences are completely arbitrary. DNA is functional. The "meanings" of the sequences are determined by physical/chemical interaction with other molecules. Describing DNA in terms of being cogs or levers in a mechanical adding machine would be an equally valid analogy as the computer code or written book analogy. How is it not? Codified? It's codified as rings of varying thickness. In fact, you don't need to look at the entire cross-section of the tree, just look at a line segment from the center of the trunk to the outer bark. It's effectively a binary code representing the history of the tree, a lot like a barcode. Specified? I've asked you what you meant by specified before, but you never answered. Specified by whom? Simply saying that this or that information is or is not specified is meaningless gibberish. Specified simply means that someone has clearly indicated exactly which information they're talking about. If I say "I'm talking about the rings in the tree in my backyard" then information provided by the rings in the tree in my backyard has been specified. Complex? All information possesses a degree of complexity. How complex is complex? And have you ever looked at tree rings? They aren't just circles, there is a moderate degree of complexity. |
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"That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim |
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27th February 2013, 04:18 AM | #5307 |
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27th February 2013, 04:45 AM | #5308 |
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The burden of proof is on the people making the claim. It's up to them to provide evidence that they really did experience something supernatural or miraculous. Large numbers of anecdotes with zero verifiable evidence to support them are not a compelling reason to take their position seriously. If I took things like that seriously, I'd also have to take seriously claims of telepathy, dowsing, speaking with the dead, homeopathy, alien abductions, scientology, reiki, feng seui, astrology, Santa Clause, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, levitation, telekinesis, tarot card readings, and so on. Over centuries, scientists have built up a vast body of verifiable observations of how the universe works. If anyone wants to make claims that fall outside of this existing body of observational evidence, it's necessary for these claims to be verified before they're accepted, otherwise you could end up accepting any old nonsense. You say that dismissing these unverified anecdotal accounts of supernatural phenomena is an act of incredulity and willful ignorance. I say that NOT dismissing unverified anecdotal accounts of supernatural phenomena is an act of credulity and gullibility. Tell me, do you believe the accounts of alien abduction? If not, then why not? |
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"That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim |
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27th February 2013, 04:58 AM | #5309 |
Scholar
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Why do you believe naturalism to be the best explanation for our existence ?
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27th February 2013, 04:58 AM | #5310 |
Tergiversator
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I see you refuse to learn about epigenetics.
That's ok. It just makes your argument equal parts ignorant and quaint. Much like how I view someone who would say, "airplanes can never fly!" Yes. Much like I dismiss reports of bigfoot, alien abductions, Loch Ness, Vampires, Ghosts and all other forms of miracles. Of course, I am happy to change my opinion if actual evidence evidence is presented. |
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What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser |
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27th February 2013, 05:07 AM | #5311 |
Tergiversator
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Not true, but your Dodge is noted.
Let's try again. Do you believe it moral to kill someone for being homosexual? The old testament says it is. Do you agree with the Old testament or not? If not, why? My main point here is that your morality is also subjective. The only difference between you and me is that I take full responsibility for my moral code. You externalize your responsibility by claiming it is objective law from god. |
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What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser |
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27th February 2013, 05:45 AM | #5312 |
Philosopher
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Existence cannot be addressed outside the study of ontology. Any other study is regarding phenomena already existing, not the origin of their existence.
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27th February 2013, 06:07 AM | #5313 |
Penultimate Amazing
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That really helps your credibility!
-you just copy and paste -you don't understand the material on either side -you can't understand critiques -you have so little faith you hide from those who point out your dishonest tactics Now you add 'paranormal phenomenas'. Stop now GIBHOR there are many good jesus people out there, your arguments make them look really silly. |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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27th February 2013, 06:08 AM | #5314 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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27th February 2013, 06:12 AM | #5315 |
Penultimate Amazing
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This is an untruth GIBHOR and your behaviors puts it to a lie.
You refused to discuss the actual basis of the Fine Tuning Argument, repeatedly and over and over. That and about fifty other times in this thread you have shown you do not even read what people post but just respond blindly. So you in short are a liar. |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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27th February 2013, 06:13 AM | #5316 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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27th February 2013, 06:14 AM | #5317 |
Crazy Little Green Dragon
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David Deming. Someone who I've never heard of before. Reading the article? It's actually a little better than I expected, but my response is unchanged. The arguments that he's knocking down are, completely unsurprisingly, straw men, and have been for a long time. Your attempt at an argument from authority fails.
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So sayeth the crazy little dragon. |
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27th February 2013, 06:20 AM | #5318 |
Crazy Little Green Dragon
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Probably Dawkins. And Collins. And Crick. And and and. Quote mining is quote mining and tends to be highly dishonest.
Sorta like quoting something like... And proclaiming that GIBHOR thinks that naturalism is the best explanation for our existence. Despite the fact that that requires ignoring the rest of the context of this thread. |
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So sayeth the crazy little dragon. |
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27th February 2013, 06:34 AM | #5319 |
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Dsihonest troll is...dishonest.
1. You admit to being a troll--which admission, by the way, goes a long way toward explaining why your participation in a thread about naturalism as the best explanation for our existence has primarily consisted of preaching against your straw man version of naturalism, incorporating such means as dishonest quote-mining and copypasta. 1.a. (Pedantic aside: this is not, cannot be, a "debate"...no matter how much Americans have debased the term.) 2. I thank you sincerely for your refreshing honesty, at least in regards to this specific issue. 3. You groundlessly accuse me of being just like you, in German, no less--how erudite. 4. You continue your OT trolling. Unless you are asserting that the fact that your designer is incompetent, a fool, a trickster, or a cosmic liar, is the reason you believe naturalism to be the best explanation for our existence, claiming that poor design (as would be expected to result form evolution by natural selection) is evidence of an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent designer is OT. 5. You have been corrected on this before. It is not the "letters" of DNA that result in the functions of DNA, but the physical shape of the codons. The shape of a book is unimportant--different formats of the same book (e-book, mimeograph copies, photocopies, autographic copies, books-on-tape versions) convey the same ideas. Changing the font, or typeface, in which it is written does not change the meaning of a word (why not render your German aphorism in Fraktur?). Changing the shape of a DNA molecule would change its function. Your OT contention boils down to a fatuous claim that the shape of a book is its message--which is only true of you are using it to prop up the corner of your desk. 6. Equivocation about DNA is...equivocal. And OT. |
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"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
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27th February 2013, 06:36 AM | #5320 |
Crazy Little Green Dragon
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Incidentally, GIBHOR, Collins' analogy was a good one, for the intended purpose. Not directly accurate by any means, but it communicated a general concept that was easily understandable by massive numbers of people. Trying to take such an attempt as literal truth will inevitably be inaccurate, though, when dealing with matters like your follow up quote did.
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So sayeth the crazy little dragon. |
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