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27th February 2013, 06:40 AM | #5321 |
The Infinitely Prolonged
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I would like to remind you that:
Those who DO NOT think that DNA is a language or a code are the ones learning MORE about where it came from! Those who insist that DNA is a language or a code are NOT gaining any new, nitty-gritty details about how it came about. There is tremendous value in thinking of DNA as a replicating molecule, that had increased in complexity over time, through natural procecces.... regardless of belief about it or about God! That is why this line of argument of yours is failing to impress us, here. |
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27th February 2013, 06:41 AM | #5322 |
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"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
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27th February 2013, 06:43 AM | #5323 |
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"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
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27th February 2013, 06:46 AM | #5324 |
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27th February 2013, 06:49 AM | #5325 |
a carbon based life-form
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Dr. Francis Collins, director of the Human Genome Project (that mapped the human DNA structure) said that one can "think of DNA as an instructional script, a software program, sitting in the nucleus of the cell."
Perry Marshall, an information specialist, comments on the implications of this. "There has never existed a computer program that wasn't designed...[whether it is] a code, or a program, or a message given through a language, there is always an intelligent mind behind it." DNA is not a computer code, can you take a computer program and throw it into a batch of chemicals and will it self organize into a computer? |
27th February 2013, 06:56 AM | #5326 |
a carbon based life-form
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27th February 2013, 07:00 AM | #5327 |
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There is no " instruction program in the cell ". And you can't magically produce any such "instruction program" by quoting the religious beliefs of barking mad creationists who preach on the internet. The reason you are objecting so strongly to me correcting you on your misuse of the word "information" is because your entire argument of ID rests on you trying to claim that “living” cells, which are simply bundles of chemical molecules, somehow hear the voice of invisible supernatural gods. As I said above, you and other religious fanatics may hear voices, but simple organic chemicals do not hear voices. |
27th February 2013, 07:13 AM | #5328 |
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27th February 2013, 07:22 AM | #5329 |
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I wouldn't bring that word up here. The condition of existence is a big enough unknown to be going on with.
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27th February 2013, 08:10 AM | #5330 |
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No, according to your world view, you cannot say. With our subjective morals, we can easily say that something is moral or not according to our subjective morals. Do you really not understand that?
According to your world view, you can only say something is moral if it is specifically addressed in your morally bankrupt bronze age novel. So, is killing your neighbor for picking up sticks on the Sabbath moral, YES or NO?
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According to your "source of universal morals", is it moral to murder your daughter for having sex outside of marriage? YES or NO? |
27th February 2013, 08:12 AM | #5331 |
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27th February 2013, 08:50 AM | #5332 |
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But this is still really odd. If the argument is:
Objective morals are provided by God. Objective morals exist. Therefore, God. You need to have a set of morals that are objective. Objective morals, by definition, wouldn't change with time. Gibhor is claiming that morals have changed. By his own argument, he's disproved the existence of God. |
27th February 2013, 09:11 AM | #5333 |
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Yes, we can. We can say this because homosexuals are human beings who are contributing members of society. We can say this because we use logic to recognize that homosexuality between responsible, consenting adults causes no harm to anyone and is simply part of the pursuit of happiness and well-being that makes for a healthy society. The Bible, on the other hand, was written by people who did not use logic to formulate and justify a morality for the purpose of maintaining a healthy, productive society, but rather declared their mindless bigotry to be the unimpeachable law of the universe, thus refusing to justify or take responsibility for their actions.
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The universe may be indifferent to our survival or extinction, but it matters to us because we want to survive. We want to know that, even though we as individuals will die, the human species will continue on after us. We survive as a social species. Together, we can achieve things that are impossible alone. We can prosper greatly when we work for each other. The great joke of this thread is that you declare your god to be the ultimate source of objectively correct morality, then when we point out the positively evil edicts attributed to said god, you say, "You don't have to obey those evil laws any more". Your "objective" morality has changed. |
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Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
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27th February 2013, 09:17 AM | #5334 |
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Yep. The horrors of the Tanakh are an embarrassment to those who claim a gentle and loving god. Not that the central message of Christianity, "Love me or I will destroy you", is all that loving. At least some early Gnostic Christian groups, like the Marcionites, recognized this incompatibility and rejected the cruel god of Abraham.
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Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
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27th February 2013, 09:18 AM | #5335 |
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27th February 2013, 09:23 AM | #5336 |
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Objective morals in a "living document" of the Old and New Testament is a hilarious explanation and every time I hear it I crack up. It's Christian chauvinism at its finest.
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"If I actually believed that Jesus was coming to end the world in 2050, I'd be preparing by stocking up on timber and nails" - PZ Myers |
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27th February 2013, 09:27 AM | #5337 |
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There are no excuses for the Bible's command to kill young women for making their own sexual choices. There are no excuses for its directive to kill friends and family who suggest adopting other religious beliefs. There is no forgiving the Bible for declaring that slaves are property.
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Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
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27th February 2013, 09:30 AM | #5338 |
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Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
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27th February 2013, 09:36 AM | #5339 |
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That's the point. Don't you get it? Christian parents don't do what the god of the Bible declared to be just, because they employ their subjective moral judgement.
If YHWH's morality is objective, then why did he once command people to kill their daughters for having sex with their boyfriends? |
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Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
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27th February 2013, 09:38 AM | #5340 |
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Gelijk and gelijk gezelt zich graag. What Gihbor is getting at is a mystery.
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27th February 2013, 10:16 AM | #5341 |
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I've been following this thread and jumping in to comment, when I felt I had a point. But, I have to look at facts.
Gibhor, does not actually want to learn anything. As far as I can tell, the phenomena known as Martyr Syndrome is at work here. For Gibhor, he feel he is fighting the "Good Fight", and fending off all us "pagens". For him, it is a deep need for his self-esteem. Without this arguement, his faith is not validated. But, I know how life works. We do influence each other, and even if it doesn't happen now, maybe one day, Gibhor's eyes will open to the plain truth. We are responsible, for ourselves. There is no reward for your life. (Other than the life, itself.) There is no god. |
27th February 2013, 11:34 AM | #5342 |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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27th February 2013, 12:17 PM | #5343 |
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27th February 2013, 12:19 PM | #5344 |
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27th February 2013, 12:21 PM | #5345 |
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27th February 2013, 12:26 PM | #5346 |
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"If I actually believed that Jesus was coming to end the world in 2050, I'd be preparing by stocking up on timber and nails" - PZ Myers |
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27th February 2013, 12:49 PM | #5347 |
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27th February 2013, 01:01 PM | #5348 |
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That is an amazingly stupid argument. What you've just described is subjective morality. You pick and choose what you want to follow from the Bible's edicts.
Byt the way, could you explain what it was about the specific situation, folk and time that made it morally just to own slaves, kill a woman for having sex, or kill friends or family who suggested that you join another religion? I'd really like to know, seeing as you have such an enormous, raging clue for the Bible. |
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Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
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27th February 2013, 01:52 PM | #5349 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I do not understand what you mean. Please explain.
Remember Gibhor, I have nothing to gain or lose by being shown to be wrong, except knowledge and experience. I am perfectly willing to be proved wrong. I am a human being, and humans are sometimes right, and sometimes wrong. It would be silly, for me, to pretend to be 100% right, 100% of the time. So, how will you prove god? |
27th February 2013, 04:13 PM | #5350 |
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27th February 2013, 04:16 PM | #5351 |
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27th February 2013, 04:55 PM | #5352 |
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What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser |
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27th February 2013, 05:52 PM | #5353 |
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27th February 2013, 05:56 PM | #5354 |
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What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser |
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27th February 2013, 05:58 PM | #5355 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I am a strong athiest (I guess). The details of my life are probably very close to yours. What would you consider viable proof for strong athiesm?
I don't believe in god or gods. I mean, you don't believe in many gods either, correct? Do you believe in Zues or Apollo? Do you believe in the Baptist god, or the Mormon god? |
27th February 2013, 06:01 PM | #5356 |
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27th February 2013, 08:28 PM | #5357 |
Penultimate Amazing
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27th February 2013, 08:37 PM | #5358 |
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You posted exactly the same statement before. When I provided the evidence, you had requested, you not only ignored my response, but you also explicitly stated that you were under no obligation to read what I had provided.
Of course the forum involves reading not hearing; perhaps you are trying to say that you are all ears, but no eyes? I thought that clever wording of lies to beguile people was the work of satan in your religion, not god. |
27th February 2013, 08:54 PM | #5359 |
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Go sell crazy someplace else we're all stocked up here |
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27th February 2013, 09:02 PM | #5360 |
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