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2nd March 2013, 06:51 PM | #5601 |
Penultimate Amazing
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2nd March 2013, 06:59 PM | #5602 |
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"If I actually believed that Jesus was coming to end the world in 2050, I'd be preparing by stocking up on timber and nails" - PZ Myers |
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2nd March 2013, 07:00 PM | #5603 |
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"If I actually believed that Jesus was coming to end the world in 2050, I'd be preparing by stocking up on timber and nails" - PZ Myers |
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2nd March 2013, 07:04 PM | #5604 |
Dental Floss Tycoon
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Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
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2nd March 2013, 07:37 PM | #5605 |
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"If I actually believed that Jesus was coming to end the world in 2050, I'd be preparing by stocking up on timber and nails" - PZ Myers |
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2nd March 2013, 07:43 PM | #5606 |
Meandering fecklessly
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A government is a body of people usually - notably - ungoverned. -Shepard Book |
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2nd March 2013, 07:54 PM | #5607 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Is this someone you know, recommending cannibalism?
While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is My body." New American Standard Bible (©1995) Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. New International Version (©1984) Interesting. Quite insteresting............ |
2nd March 2013, 08:22 PM | #5608 |
Tergiversator
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What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser |
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2nd March 2013, 08:44 PM | #5609 |
Philosopher
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You and me both. I'd rather determine morality in a subjective but consistent basis using psychology/sociology. After all, how can you determine a morality that's truly objective vs a morality that's subjective but so consistent that it could be confused with an objective morality?
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"If I actually believed that Jesus was coming to end the world in 2050, I'd be preparing by stocking up on timber and nails" - PZ Myers |
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2nd March 2013, 09:23 PM | #5610 |
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It is true that everything pre-big bang is highly speculative, but you can at least give more weight to the hypothesis which is most like what we already know.
You cant completely rule out other ideas obviously, but you can say that it is *more likely* that whatever existed "before" our universe or "outside" our universe is made of the same stuff our universe is. If you lived in an all red town, with all red streets, all red houses and all red townspeople..... and you're sitting on your all red couch with your all red dog eating your all red sandwich and drinking your all red beer, and the all red postman arrives and delivers your all red mail, and you use your all red letter opener and open an all red envelope...... what colour do you reckon the letter might be? |
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"Here we go again.... semantic and syntactic chicanery and sophistic sleight of tongue and pen.... the bedazzling magic of appearing to be saying something when in fact all that is happening is diverting attention from the attempts at shoving god through the trapdoor of illogic and wishful thinking." - Leumas |
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2nd March 2013, 09:29 PM | #5611 |
Daydreamer
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He's already answered it... He does have a point. The only Biblical reference given in this thread to support the claim that the Bible says it is moral was given in this post... But if you actually read the text, this isn't what it's saying... http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...21&version=NIV It's saying that if your daughter gets married, but her husband decides he doesn't like her and claims she wasn't a virgin, and you can't provide the "proof" of her virginity, then the townsmen shall stone her to death on her father's doorstep. Nothing about parents killing their daughter for discovering that she had sex. Hell, if they did discover that their daughter had sex with her boyfriend, they could just claim he raped her and force him to marry her and pay a fine. This way they'd not only avoid having to pay a dowry, but they'd also get paid for marrying her off. A win-win situation for them. |
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"That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim |
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2nd March 2013, 09:38 PM | #5612 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Let's take a look at the consistency of the god of the bible, shall we? I love this little list, but I don't know who the original author is, so thank you to some JREF person out there!
God never gets tired and rests, except for when he does. (Is 40:28, Gen 2:2-3) God's anger lasts forever but doesn't last forever. (Micah 7:18, Jer 17:4) You are justified and achieve salvation by your deeds, not by faith... and also by faith, not by your deeds. (Gal 2:16, Matt 19:17, Rom 3:28, James 2:24) It's impossible to see God and nobody ever has, except for those who have, and it killed all of them, except that it didn't. (Gen 32:30, Ex 33:20, Gen 12:7, Ex 33:11, John 1:18, Ex 24:9-11, 1 Tim 6:16) God claims responsibility for all that is bad and evil in the world in Isaiah 45:7, contradicting all claims anywhere else that God is entirely good and loving and evil came from anywhere else and God doesn't like having evil around. He's described as merciful, gracious, slow to anger, and loving in Exodus 34:6, which contradicts the huge stream of his demands for various nasty punishments elsewhere and the entire warped basis for the warped Christian description of justice through holy blood sacrifice (not to mention the violence he demands against the innocent not as punishment but just because they're in the way, and the smaller things he allows to happen but could have prevented, like making the blind people Jesus healed endure blindness for as long as they did before meeting Jesus). Wealth is a blessing, but woe unto those who have it! (Luke 6:24 & 14:33, Psalm 112:1-3) When Jesus died, the curtain in the temple had already ripped itself in half, but it hadn't yet and wouldn't until he was dead. (Mark 15:37-38, Luke 23:45-46, Matt 27:50-51) Two different groups of soldiers were the ones who put the royal robe on Jesus. (Luke 23:11, Matt 27:27-28, John 19:1-2) Jesus's rampage in the temple happened before the hissy-fit at the fig tree, but the fig tree episode came first. (Matt 21:12-19, Mark 11:12-17) What did Saul's traveling companions see & hear when Saul was having his revelation? (Acts 9:7, 22:9) Jesus is the only person who ever ascended to Heaven alive, but someone else did it first. (2 Kings 2:11, John 3:13) David took two different numbers of horsemen from Hadadezer in the same incident. (2 Sam 8:4, 1 Chron 18:4) He also paid two different prices for the same threshing floor. (1 Chron 21:25, 2 Sam 24:24) Of David's three mightiest men, either two different ones are called the "chief" among them, or one man had two different names and his claim to fame was having killed two different numbers of other men with his spear. (2 Sam 23:8, 1 Chron 11:11) Both thieves on the crosses near Jesus reviled him, but only one did and the other rebuked him for it. (Luke 23:39-42, Mark 15:32, Matt 27:44) Jesus healed two blind men on the road to Jericho, but it was only one. (Luke 18:35-43, Mark 15:32, Matt 27:44) And the biggest one of all because it's the central, most important story in Christianity, the one you'd think they'd have the most interest in making sure they got right, is the biggest mess: different numbers of women with different names watch Jesus's tomb being opened but also discover that it was already open before they got there, and meet one man who was really two men who were really one angel, who was/were sitting, standing, and descending from Heaven (during an earthquake which didn't happen) & then opening the tomb that was already open. (Matt 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, John 20) The centurion with the sick, dying servant sent some Jewish elders to ask for help, then sent some friends to talk to Jesus when he got closer... but he also went out to find Jesus himself without sending anybody. (Matthew 8:5-8, Luke 7:2-6) There are ZERO blameless, righteous people, NOT EVEN ONE (Romans 3:10)... not even Noah (Genesis 6:8-9 & 7:1), Job (Job 2:3), Zacharias & Elizabeth (Luke 1:5-6), or James's entire audience (James 5:16). |
2nd March 2013, 10:29 PM | #5613 |
Tergiversator
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this has been my primary problem with claims of objective morality.
It externalizes responsibility and gives the individual a pass from having to consider the ramifications of their moral choices. A person who doesn't consider the "why" of a moral belief and simply says, "Becuase god" is a very frightening individual. |
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What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser |
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3rd March 2013, 03:06 AM | #5614 |
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3rd March 2013, 03:16 AM | #5615 |
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3rd March 2013, 03:18 AM | #5616 |
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3rd March 2013, 03:20 AM | #5617 |
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3rd March 2013, 03:23 AM | #5618 |
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3rd March 2013, 03:35 AM | #5619 |
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3rd March 2013, 03:36 AM | #5620 |
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From the book "Examine the Evidence" by Ralph Muncaster, pgs. 110 - 111.
Chirality is the term given to the necessity that all nucleotides (sugars) in a DNA or RNA chain be of a certain molecular orientation (“right-handed,” technically dextroform) for the chain to work. Likewise, nearly all of the 20 different amino acids (actually 19) used in cellular protein chains must also be of a specified orientation (“left-handed,” technically levoform) for a protein to work. Not one can be defective. If these chirality requirements are not met, the entire process of manufacture from DNA to RNA to “working protein” fails. Hence, for the first bacterium, a perfect mix of both nucleotide orientation (right -handed) and amino-acid orientation (left handed) had to occur... we also need to keep in mind that both the DNA and protein chains are extremely long... In nature, however, we find that all amino acids occur randomly, in equal proportions of right- and left-handed...To create the first cell, all of the thousands of amino acids in the hundred-plus functional proteins required for the first cell would have to suddenly show up—the right types at exactly the right place at exactly the right time—all left-handed. This is the only way they would have been able to properly bond as instructed by the DNA... Likewise, all 100,000-plus nucleotides would have to show up at exactly the right time in exactly the right way—all right-handed... In other words, to just get the 100,000 correctly oriented nucleotides together in the first place would be like flipping a coin and getting 100,000 heads in a row. To get the 10,000 correctly oriented amino acids together would be like flipping 10,000 tails in a row. To do both, which is necessary, would be like correctly getting 110,000 specified flips in a row. Of course there are other problems of random assembly, but we need not go beyond the chirality problem to make the point. |
3rd March 2013, 03:37 AM | #5621 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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3rd March 2013, 03:45 AM | #5622 |
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There are no real moral values in atheism. Therefore, there cannot be anything wrong to kill someone, to eat his flesh. We are just one of thousands of different species. We have no more value than a cow. So it makes no difference, if you kill a cow, or a human, to eat........
Quote:
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3rd March 2013, 03:54 AM | #5623 |
Penultimate Amazing
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3rd March 2013, 03:55 AM | #5624 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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3rd March 2013, 04:34 AM | #5625 |
Daydreamer
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The "goal" hasn't been "set", that's just how evolution works. Passing hereditary characteristics down to the next generation is the whole basis of how evolution works. "Reproductive success", whether short or long term, for either individual or community, is the only thing evolution can optimize for.
Nonsense. I've already explained this. Not unless you're insane. |
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3rd March 2013, 04:49 AM | #5626 |
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Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon |
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3rd March 2013, 05:43 AM | #5627 |
Penultimate Amazing
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May I respectfully suggest Pharaoh consider that a day without a Muncaster quotation is a day without Aten's gracious bounty?
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3rd March 2013, 05:52 AM | #5628 |
Heretic Pharaoh
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But it's being done at the expense of our daily Sir Ramsay and Sir Thomas Jefferson quotes! To say nothing of the fact that we have yet to hear what The World's Greatest Historian™, Sir Luke, has to say about the exodus. ETA: I see I'm in the wrong thread, although to be fair, it is all part of the same overarching derail. |
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Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon |
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3rd March 2013, 05:57 AM | #5629 |
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"Here we go again.... semantic and syntactic chicanery and sophistic sleight of tongue and pen.... the bedazzling magic of appearing to be saying something when in fact all that is happening is diverting attention from the attempts at shoving god through the trapdoor of illogic and wishful thinking." - Leumas |
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3rd March 2013, 06:25 AM | #5630 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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3rd March 2013, 06:26 AM | #5631 |
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I was not; I have been; I am not; I am content - Epicurus When you're dead you don't know that you're dead, all the pain is felt by others....................the same thing happens when you're stupid. |
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3rd March 2013, 06:28 AM | #5632 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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3rd March 2013, 06:30 AM | #5633 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Is this from the Onion?
O Pharaoh, this thread has an OP who thoughtfully provides links to some amusing sites http://creation.com/the-naturalistic...ngly-difficult |
3rd March 2013, 06:45 AM | #5634 |
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3rd March 2013, 06:46 AM | #5635 |
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3rd March 2013, 06:49 AM | #5636 |
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3rd March 2013, 07:05 AM | #5637 |
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3rd March 2013, 07:26 AM | #5638 |
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Like most believers you have never read the bible.
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB) http://www.evilbible.com/ |
3rd March 2013, 07:36 AM | #5639 |
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Yes, we shall. You're the one who brought up that morally bankrupt novel. So, do you believe that it's moral to murder your neighbor for picking up sticks on the Sabbath?
Answer the question, GIBHOR. But if morals are universal, why do they do it? Is it objectively moral for my slave to beat another person's slave if that other slave doesn't do as his master bids? Answer the question, GIBHOR. |
3rd March 2013, 07:38 AM | #5640 |
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